inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Aug 9, 2016 16:34:19 GMT
What kind of reform? A totally corrupt system impossible to repair, but need to eliminate, and build a new one. Yes, the Circles are important: for schoole and library, but not as prison. And the templars? The armed junkie guys endowed with absolute power? Not very comforting, nor is it safe. Not mentioned, that the lyrium addiction not too good stuff. Then the templars are also victims, but they have a chance to choose. Modern or not modern world: oppression follows a bloody rebellion. This is not surprising, rather natural. The system isn't totally corrupt imo, thus it can be improved. Kirkwall was the only true unredeemable place in the games, corrupt to its core, and that was mostly due to the locale. A grave mistake by the chantry. Templars getting free of their lyrium leash is one of the things that need to be changed, of course, as is their training. The system is wrong. Innocent peoples judging by life imprisonment is not acceptable, and really dangerous in this case: which parents want to extradite their children to the templars? The hidden children, without training actually become dangerous. Ergo: the whole system unrepairable, the Circles need to became schools and library and the accidents minimalized. The current system, a powerful mage not prevent by the Templars better than in a non-prison system. Why? Because some "trustworthy" mages can receive permission for leave for a time. So what holds them back, as soon as they leave the Circle, to summon pack of demons and become abomination? Nothing, just their willpower. Then: the Circle not prison, because some mages can't leave with permission? I think, if you can only leave with permission, and only just for a time... you live in a prison. And what about the others, ho considered untrustful? Yes. They are vulneable. So the mages should throughout their lives to look for the Templars' favor, to declare them to be trustworthy, or they are fucked. It seems quite cruel. (Yes, yes, I know, the life are cruel. But the people dont need just sit, and swallow the shit peacefully)
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,939 Likes: 24,279
inherit
214
0
24,279
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,939
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Aug 10, 2016 0:52:16 GMT
Mages, once trained, have a place in society. Their services are needed and desired and there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to use them for the benefit of everyone. Mage fighters, are also necessary, but without ties to the Chantry. I think the way the old Inquisition pursued things could be used as a good example. They fought abominations and demons and bad guys in general, so much so that everyone hated them because they didn't play favorites. They even had mages among them, like Ameridan and Telana. Then they ruined it by becoming part of the Chantry, turning themselves into a religious, as opposed to secular, order whose primary purpose was recruiting believers rather than competent, thinking individuals.
So, in a restructured world, there's no reason why both mages and mage fighters can't be part of a nation's army or local lords' garrisons or even city guards. How much better might Aveline's men have been able to deal with the likes of DuPuis if they had some clue what they were looking for?
But it all starts with education, not just for mages but for everyone. No more Chantry preaching the inherent evils of magic would be a good start.
|
|
ddj
N1
Posts: 21 Likes: 17
inherit
536
0
17
ddj
21
August 2016
ddj
|
Post by ddj on Aug 12, 2016 23:16:13 GMT
I have long felt that the mage circles, gussied up as they are, amount to prisons where the mages are constantly "protected" due to Chantry teachings. The rebellion in DAO stems from the fact that they don't want the Templars hanging over every word, and from DA2 and DAI it was hardly the worst prison. Kirkwall is a gleaming example. So, I tend to favor the mages but I am not reluctant to put them down when called for. In DAI I always go for the mages, but after experiencing what old C does I conscript them. After all, Tevinter is the big bad as far as countries go. Many Templars have abused their power, and power unchecked leads to tyranny. If one carefully reads the magic is made to serve man not to rule over him bit, it says nothing of cast the mages into prison. Not a single word. Without Templar abuses sparked by the Chantry's teachings there would have been no mage rebellion.
|
|
inherit
154
0
1,997
Reznore
942
August 2016
reznore
|
Post by Reznore on Aug 13, 2016 8:22:24 GMT
For me the issues of mage are not abominations and the fact that they may get dangerous by accident and kill a number of people.I think this can be an acceptable risk if mages use their talent to benefit the community.Good mage healers , and all that can really help people.
No the issues I have is mages are born powerful and needs training to lessen the risks.So they will tend to become an elite after a while.Now sure in Thedas there's already an elite in power : nobles . But one can fake being a noble or get money enough they can mingle with the high society (Hawke for example) I'm not saying it's easy but you can't really fake being a mage .
The second main issue is if a mage gets really good or if he's really motivated , the damage one person (or a couple of mages) can do is just too damn high. I'm talking Cory and co and our friend Solas or even the ancient elven empire. It goes beyond simple war , and wars are gruesome and terrible already .You get the Blight , the Breach , time itself unravelling , the veil , in one of the comic you got a Tevinter magister who was on his way to mindcontrol the whole world . I'm not even sure there is way to control that , but it's a scary thought , Thedas could have been obliterated a couple of time by now.And mages and magic were always involved .
|
|
bardox
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 102 Likes: 221
inherit
980
0
221
bardox
102
Aug 14, 2016 15:56:19 GMT
August 2016
bardox
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by bardox on Aug 14, 2016 20:39:40 GMT
In DA:I I usually go with In Hushed Whispers. I'll begin my explanation by saying I am a Circle supporter. It's not perfect, but it the least shitty option available, IMO.
With what you see the Templars in Val Royeaux do, It's hard for one to say, "Well they seem like a reasonable bunch of fellows. Let's try and deal with them." Unless of course you are metsgaming and already decided before hand to support the Templars. So I go to Redcliff since the First Enchanter herself invites me. What you find when you get to Redcliff could give you pause, but after finding out that they are all going to made into slaves, how can one turn a blind eye? Your character has to really hate Mages to ignore them at that point.
The thing I love about the decision of whether you side with the Templars or Mages is that which ever side you don't choose becomes everything people fear about that particular group. The mages all become evil world dominating blood mages and abominations. The Templars all become mad men roaming the lands killing anyone that opposes them. Only by allying with or conscripting the group can any semblance of their good qualities be preserved. So you make the right call no matter what.
I pick the mages because of the Magister's involvement. Slavers deserve immediate death. Not to be allowed to make off with an army of new slaves. The Templars falling prey to a demon just seems like just rewards. You have to fight corrupted Templars no matter what. I only sided with the Templars once and that was just to see what I was missing.
The only thing I have trouble with is do you ally with your respective group or do you conscript them? Making them your prisoners just seems wrong, but can you truly trust them?
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Aug 17, 2016 22:04:24 GMT
The issue with the Templars in Val Royeaux actually makes me more interested in recruiting them. It becomes less of a "lets go up and recruit this faction" and more "find out what's going on".
|
|
inherit
1063
0
2,708
HYR
Join RadLounge!!! Go to: radlounge.boards.net
1,769
August 2016
hyr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
HYRforTheWIN
|
Post by HYR on Aug 19, 2016 15:54:39 GMT
While I've never held that they are blameless in this affair, I was generally more supportive of the Templars, personally. Magic is, and always will be, a very dangerous threat to all people near it. 'Gotta have defenses against that.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Aug 19, 2016 16:01:43 GMT
While I've never held that they are blameless in this affair, I was generally more supportive of the Templars, personally. Magic is, and always will be, a very dangerous threat to all people near it. 'Gotta have defenses against that. But the Circle-system bad also the Templars (remember lyrium addiction). Besides, the water can be dangerous. You could be drowned.
|
|
inherit
1063
0
2,708
HYR
Join RadLounge!!! Go to: radlounge.boards.net
1,769
August 2016
hyr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
HYRforTheWIN
|
Post by HYR on Aug 19, 2016 16:08:24 GMT
While I've never held that they are blameless in this affair, I was generally more supportive of the Templars, personally. Magic is, and always will be, a very dangerous threat to all people near it. 'Gotta have defenses against that. But the Circle-system bad also the Templars (remember lyrium addiction). Besides, the water can be dangerous. You could be drowned. I know, Solas makes the water comparison, but I reject it -- water does not have a mind of its own, nor does it have control over its own movement. If it had both, and if it thought anything like Dragon Age demons do, then we would all be screwed. If anything, the water comparison just strengthens the other side's case.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Aug 19, 2016 16:19:39 GMT
But the Circle-system bad also the Templars (remember lyrium addiction). Besides, the water can be dangerous. You could be drowned. I know, Solas makes the water comparison, but I reject it -- water does not have a mind of its own, nor does it have control over its own movement. If it had both, and if it thought anything like Dragon Age demons do, then we would all be screwed. If anything, the water comparison just strengthens the other side's case. The mage have awareness, yes. And they know very well how the magic is dangerous to their own physical safety as well. The child does not know this, and therefore should be taught. But the parents hide their mage children away from the Templars. If the Circles were no prisons, the parents could happily send their children there. Thus the Circle system is wrong and very dangerous. Not to mention the propaganda that keeps in fear the commoners, who could be attacked the families, which (may) have a mage member. This mage forced to defend him/herself, and if s/he is not trained, the tragedy is predictable.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1120
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2016 22:18:05 GMT
I side with the mages and I challenge the present Chantry/Circle/Orders teachings/authority.
I don`t see how creating the present system of fear and discrimination benefits anyone, just like I see no difference between a mage going abomination and killing people and the Templars turning into selfrightous a-holes and subjugating the mages and wiping out an entire tower when it`s only a few who have gone rogue/been possessed.
I don`t buy the excuse that the present system is the only way when the Avvar and other societies have been able to find alternative methods to keep mages demon free.
If a mage can be held accountable for something he/she might become because other mages went that way, then Templars should be held accountable for possibly becoming sadistic, vendictive tyrants because there have been some cold-blooded, abusive, power hungry Templars before them.
Not to mention it has been proven that Templars, Grey Wardens, dwarves and ordinary people can be just as suseptable to demonic influences as the mages anyway.
Anders was right, things need to change and there should be more investigations into the cause and prevention of demonic possessions.To alienate and vilify all the mages only weakens defenses, it`s better to ally with them and work with them for a solution. What happened at Kirkwall was a complete clusterf**k of stupidity that was caused by weak, paranoid leadership.
|
|
inherit
1104
0
538
naughtynomad
508
Aug 21, 2016 15:51:50 GMT
August 2016
naughtynomad
|
Post by naughtynomad on Aug 27, 2016 5:33:47 GMT
I felt like Inquisition was the first game to make the choice difficult. In both Origins and DA2 the templars were kind of the bad guys, and the mages were the oppressed fighting for recognition.
But in Inquisition, the mages actually make the worse choice in allying with Tevinter. The Templars are innocents caught up in a plot by their leader. Most of them really are noble Knights trying to save the world.
Left to their fate, the templars are a very sad story. However, if you leave the mages to their fate it's equally sad. Their rebellion for equality ends with them being destroyed.
|
|
kizanare
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 606 Likes: 240
inherit
816
0
240
kizanare
606
August 2016
kizanare
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by kizanare on Aug 27, 2016 8:45:38 GMT
I flip a coin, each time, they are perfectly balanced 50/50.
|
|
inherit
1104
0
538
naughtynomad
508
Aug 21, 2016 15:51:50 GMT
August 2016
naughtynomad
|
Post by naughtynomad on Aug 27, 2016 17:03:40 GMT
I flip a coin, each time, they are perfectly balanced 50/50. In what way do you mean? If you side with the mages you fight a lot of Red Templar enemies. If you side with the Templars, you fight a lot of Venatori mages. The battles are completely different. They have different skill requirements too. The results are also different companions approval, determine what companions your recruit first (a rogue or a mage), a vastly affect the storyline. I don't see any 50/50.
|
|
inherit
1421
0
346
nikkuhlee
84
September 2016
nikkuhlee
|
Post by nikkuhlee on Sept 5, 2016 16:58:49 GMT
I finally got around to playing the Templar quest in DAI last night for the first time, I agree that this is the best game when it comes to showing the Templars as more sympathetic, but I HATE the lead up to choosing between the quests. Even for my noble, who is fairly Chantry loyal and who wanted to be a Templar to protect people... I couldn't actually see her going along with all this because the intro just wasn't that well done from a roleplaying perspective.
On one hand you have the mages, who outright offer to try and help, whom Solas (seemingly the one with the best grasp of how the breach works) is fairly sure CAN help.
On the other, you have the guy who storms in, punches an old lady, tells you off and declares himself the Only Bro That Matters, leaves a scared and grieving city during a crisis and declares them as "unworthy of protection". I get that the other Templars are the ones you're after, but they frame the start of the quest as "We have to get the Lord Seeker to listen to us!" If I wasn't so set on playing it just to experience the differences and finally meet this Calpernia everyone adores, I wouldn't have bothered. The quest itself is really cool though, I'm glad I played. They threw in enough "something weird is going on" for me to be able to justify it, but it was distracting.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 17:51:05 GMT
The still would not have bothered me, because if there's a prick, is irrelevant, but Ser Barris and his herd followed him after, than my Inquisitor offered them to join to Inquisition . This was the moment when I said: let them go, and we need to find the mages. I want to forget ... but in light of this too hard to choose the Templars. Pfft, once I want Templar alliance, and I can not find a logical reason why I would choose them...
|
|
Ondine
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 42 Likes: 192
inherit
1375
0
192
Ondine
42
Aug 31, 2016 10:57:47 GMT
August 2016
ondine
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by Ondine on Sept 5, 2016 18:41:18 GMT
DA:O - F!Surana - Sided with the mages. I don't think that my Surana had a strong opinion against the circle system while she was there. She did felt sad when she realized that she would stay there her entire life, but that's it. That changed when she started traveling Ferelden, meet the dalish, talked with Morrigan, Velanna and Anders. DAII - F!Mage Hawke - Sided with the mages. Honestly, after living her entire life as an apostate, with Malcolm Hawke as her father, romancing Anders and being Merrill best friend... there's no way to side with the templars. DA:I - F!Mage Lavellan - How could Lavellan side with the people that she learned to fear her entire life? Eh, no.
I find Hushed Whispers a bit... weird, that whole timetravel thing isn't explained well, and I think that they didn't made Fiona's character justice. Also the whole "uh dalish threw me in the forest" and "dalish can only have 3 mages" is bs.
|
|
inherit
1433
0
Dec 21, 2018 18:48:35 GMT
158
lordofwar
110
September 2016
lordofwar
|
Post by lordofwar on Sept 6, 2016 3:53:44 GMT
But in Inquisition, the mages actually make the worse choice in allying with Tevinter. The Templars are innocents caught up in a plot by their leader. Most of them really are noble Knights trying to save the world. The Templars literally leave the Chantry so they can commit genocide. The mages, desperate not to be butchered by a renegade army of frothing lunatics, look to anyone for protection. How is that not more sympathetic? Anyway, the choice is always clear for me: always mages. The Chantry's junkie legion of zealots have no place overseeing the mages, or anyone, frankly.
|
|
inherit
1104
0
538
naughtynomad
508
Aug 21, 2016 15:51:50 GMT
August 2016
naughtynomad
|
Post by naughtynomad on Sept 6, 2016 5:50:58 GMT
But in Inquisition, the mages actually make the worse choice in allying with Tevinter. The Templars are innocents caught up in a plot by their leader. Most of them really are noble Knights trying to save the world. The Templars literally leave the Chantry so they can commit genocide. The mages, desperate not to be butchered by a renegade army of frothing lunatics, look to anyone for protection. How is that not more sympathetic? Anyway, the choice is always clear for me: always mages. The Chantry's junkie legion of zealots have no place overseeing the mages, or anyone, frankly. Nah if you actually take the Templar side, you see their side a lot better. They're being manipulated by a demon who has possessed their Lord Seeker. And many of them realize it and change sides even before the demon is revealed.
|
|
inherit
1433
0
Dec 21, 2018 18:48:35 GMT
158
lordofwar
110
September 2016
lordofwar
|
Post by lordofwar on Sept 6, 2016 6:50:44 GMT
The Templars literally leave the Chantry so they can commit genocide. The mages, desperate not to be butchered by a renegade army of frothing lunatics, look to anyone for protection. How is that not more sympathetic? Anyway, the choice is always clear for me: always mages. The Chantry's junkie legion of zealots have no place overseeing the mages, or anyone, frankly. Nah if you actually take the Templar side, you see their side a lot better. They're being manipulated by a demon who has possessed their Lord Seeker. And many of them realize it and change sides even before the demon is revealed. The demon manipulates them into going all in with red lyrium, but the decision to actually leave the Chantry so that they could slaughter innocent people? That's on Lambert and his cronies, and everyone who chose to follow them, not the demon.
|
|
Dukemon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Dukemon11
PSN: dukemon09
Posts: 486 Likes: 280
inherit
1139
0
Apr 27, 2024 23:05:00 GMT
280
Dukemon
486
Aug 22, 2016 22:50:07 GMT
August 2016
dukemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Dukemon11
dukemon09
|
Post by Dukemon on Sept 6, 2016 10:09:46 GMT
There is only one Trophy locked in Dragon Age 2 in my playthroughs. I have no motivation to siding with the templars the whole game. There are to many assholes and Power possessed idiots. It is just embarrassing how the writers wanted to make it more difficult to siding the mages and choose the templars instead.
Btw No way I will never accept that Fiona is Alistair's mother. That is inconsequent.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
225
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 10:44:44 GMT
My canon Warden, Hawke, and Inquisitor were all pro-mage. I started with a rogue!Hawke who was just trying to protect his sister. I wanted an Amell Warden (for the connection to Hawke), and it made more sense for her to side with the mages. My male mage Adaar sprung from 'what would freak the Chantry out the most?'. I wanted to him to fit in with Hawke and Varric post game, so it made more sense for him to be pro mage.
Gotta say, I prefer CotJ over IHW. Drove me nuts that you can't be really critical of the Chantry, and that Cullen kind of gets the last word in Before the Dawn.
|
|
inherit
62
0
Feb 16, 2024 23:42:38 GMT
1,214
flyingovertrout
marxist asshole
547
August 2016
flyingovertrout
|
Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 6, 2016 11:55:52 GMT
Conscript mages because they needed to be reined in ASAP (and Alexius dealt with). I would like to think my Inquisitor would have dealt with the templars, too, (they seemed a lost cause as far as allying) but you know, the attack on Haven then happened.
My Hawke was neutral mostly but leaned towards mages (Bethany lived to join the circle).
My Warden was a mage.
|
|
lewie
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 32 Likes: 34
inherit
1329
0
34
lewie
32
August 2016
lewie
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by lewie on Sept 6, 2016 23:31:33 GMT
Having played both sides a few times, I honestly don't know. The templars in the hinterlands went ballistic after the conclave and in hindsight, a demon had taken over the head honcho. The downward ripple effect from that was obvious early on in Val Royeaux. Saying that, knowing Cullen as a person, a templar, I thought they aren't all bad people I mean come on. I really liked Ser Barris too. It brought home in full force the danger a demon can do.
I also felt for the mages. Fiona just seemed to be defeated, she felt like she had nowhere else to turn. The injustices they have had to suffer are there. The earliest I can think of is Owain in Origins, he was tranquil and when you read the notes when you go through the circle tower I realised he was probably made tranquil because he simply knew more than 'the powers that be' thought he should. He read a book that he 'shouldn't have'. What he knew would have been utmost secrecy within the circle itself. It has been used to silence mages for no other reason than control.
Then Vivienne is all for the circles. Made me even more confused.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Sept 6, 2016 23:38:16 GMT
If Vivienne confused you, then ignore her! This is the best. (Not to mention, that Vivienne can like your Inqusiitor, even if s/he hates the Circles, because of the snowy wyvern heart... so, she is no matter.) The Circle-system are wrong. And Cullen is not a templar anymore.
|
|