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Post by lordofwar on Sept 7, 2016 0:21:51 GMT
Then Vivienne is all for the circles. Made me even more confused. The Circle Vivienne supports isn't the one that actually existed (where she spent very little actual time) , but her idea of what it should be, she just frames it in a Chantry-acceptable way as she's been trained her whole life. She's able to put it in place as Divine, and I assume that's what she wants to try for as Grand Enchanter.
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 0:23:56 GMT
If Vivienne confused you, then ignore her! This is the best. (Not to mention, that Vivienne can like your Inqusiitor, even if s/he hates the Circles, because of the snowy wyvern heart... so, she is no matter.) The Circle-system are wrong. And Cullen is not a templar anymore. I respect Vivienne, not a lot I have to admit she is too closed off and set in her ways, liking her doesn't really matter. Considering she was eligible to be the next Divine I kinda wish she had addressed some issues. Cullen was an insight into a templar, not all bad people. If we knew about the seekers without knowing Cassandra, everyone would hate the seekers probably. Magic doesn't need lyrium. The chantry is the problem, saying that, what Anders did is still wrong in every sense. This is why I respect Vivienne, she says being free is an admirable goal but don't do it in a way that supports outright murder. (something to that effect) On the other hand, people being made tranquil to keep them quiet, in the safety of circles is an absolute that needs to be fixed.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 0:30:14 GMT
If Vivienne confused you, then ignore her! This is the best. (Not to mention, that Vivienne can like your Inqusiitor, even if s/he hates the Circles, because of the snowy wyvern heart... so, she is no matter.) The Circle-system are wrong. And Cullen is not a templar anymore. I respect Vivienne, not a lot I have to admit she is too closed off and set in her ways, liking her doesn't really matter. Considering she was eligible to be the next Divine I kinda wish she had addressed some issues. Cullen was an insight into a templar, not all bad people. If we knew about the seekers without knowing Cassandra, everyone would hate the seekers probably. Magic doesn't need lyrium. The chantry is the problem, saying that, what Anders did is still wrong in every sense. This is why I respect Vivienne, she says being free is an admirable goal but don't do it in a way that supports outright murder. (something to that effect) Not from all viewpoint. Yes. killing innocent people is generally wrong. But to imprison innocent people also wrong. Anders is still better, as I see. I can't respect Vivienne's fear (and manners...)
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 7, 2016 1:13:22 GMT
Lots of mages are pro-Circle because they fear witch hunts (sometimes justifiably, often times not), and with good reason. They'll always be outnumbered.
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 1:14:53 GMT
I respect Vivienne, not a lot I have to admit she is too closed off and set in her ways, liking her doesn't really matter. Considering she was eligible to be the next Divine I kinda wish she had addressed some issues. Cullen was an insight into a templar, not all bad people. If we knew about the seekers without knowing Cassandra, everyone would hate the seekers probably. Magic doesn't need lyrium. The chantry is the problem, saying that, what Anders did is still wrong in every sense. This is why I respect Vivienne, she says being free is an admirable goal but don't do it in a way that supports outright murder. (something to that effect) Not from all viewpoint. Yes. killing innocent people is generally wrong. But to imprison innocent people also wrong. Anders is still better, as I see. I can't respect Vivienne's fear (and manners...) Anders took a spirit of Justice into himself that even he admitted turned into Vengeance. Anders wasn't making a judgement as a rational person. He was angry because Karl was made tranquil, rightly so. Blowing up half a district to prove a point does not help anyone. I really liked Justice, as a character I guess, he was good. It really angered me that he was corrupted. I love Cole, as he is.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 1:19:59 GMT
Lots of mages are pro-Circle because they fear witch hunts (sometimes justifiably, often times not), and with good reason. They'll always be outnumbered. Yes, because they fear from the wich hunters. This fact not justify this completely wrong system.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 1:26:20 GMT
Anders took a spirit of Justice into himself that even he admitted turned into Vengeance. Anders wasn't making a judgement as a rational person. He was angry because Karl was made tranquil, rightly so. Blowing up half a district to prove a point does not help anyone. I really liked Justice, as a character I guess, he was good. It really angered me that he was corrupted. But he was right. Innocent people imprisoned for centuries. This is wrong from all viewpoint. There is no proving that Anders corrupted Justice, only he says. But if so, not only Justice / Vengeance blew up the Chantry. Anders was there.
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 1:56:28 GMT
Anders took a spirit of Justice into himself that even he admitted turned into Vengeance. Anders wasn't making a judgement as a rational person. He was angry because Karl was made tranquil, rightly so. Blowing up half a district to prove a point does not help anyone. I really liked Justice, as a character I guess, he was good. It really angered me that he was corrupted. But he was right. Innocent people imprisoned for centuries. This is wrong from all viewpoint. There is no proving that Anders corrupted Justice, only he says. But if so, not only Justice / Vengeance blew up the Chantry. Anders was there. He knew it was wrong. That's why he left it up to Hawke to decide his fate. 'Mens hearts hold secrets darker than any tainted creature'
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 2:04:10 GMT
But he was right. Innocent people imprisoned for centuries. This is wrong from all viewpoint. There is no proving that Anders corrupted Justice, only he says. But if so, not only Justice / Vengeance blew up the Chantry. Anders was there. He knew it was wrong. That's why he left it up to Hawke to decide his fate. 'Mens hearts hold secrets darker than any tainted creature'No. He regret, that so much people died. He never regret his purpose. Let's see the templars and the Chantry: they also ready to kill innocent people at any time, since they believe is right (and because they can do it with impunity). Vivienne support this system.
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 2:24:41 GMT
He knew it was wrong. That's why he left it up to Hawke to decide his fate. 'Mens hearts hold secrets darker than any tainted creature'No. He regret, that so much people died. He never regret his purpose. Let's see the templars and the Chantry: they also ready to kill innocent people at any time, since they believe is right (and because they can do it with impunity). Vivienne support this system. Regret is not the same as knowing you did wrong.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 2:26:30 GMT
No. He regret, that so much people died. He never regret his purpose. Let's see the templars and the Chantry: they also ready to kill innocent people at any time, since they believe is right (and because they can do it with impunity). Vivienne support this system. Regret is not the same as knowing you did wrong. Yes. But he doesn't think, he doing wrong, as I see.
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 2:54:28 GMT
Regret is not the same as knowing you did wrong. Yes. But he doesn't think, he doing wrong, as I see. He did have the glowy eye thing..... shit.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 2:59:41 GMT
Yes. But he doesn't think, he doing wrong, as I see. He did have the glowy eye thing..... shiiit. Yes, he and Justice have nice glowing eyes... what do you want to say? (Now I'm confused...)
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 3:09:17 GMT
He did have the glowy eye thing..... shiiit. Yes, he and Justice have nice glowing eyes... what do you want to say? When Anders died his eyes glowed, when Solas took so and so, from so and so, his eyes glowed. Much glow, I'm sad now.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 7, 2016 3:15:15 GMT
Mages almost always. There are many reasons for this, but if I had to sum it up quickly it would be like this:
1) Unlike the Templars, the Mages are not a formally trained military organization. Children, the elderly, and just simple people who don't know jack about the outside world are included in the Mage rebellion. I really wish I could punish Fiona for how the tranquil were treated though.
2)The Templars, and the Chantry in general, have shown something of an....incompetence when it comes to managing magic or mages. The Templars either held too much sway in Circles (where the authority of the First Enchanter may be undermined) that lead to the abuse of mages or they were far too simplistic in their approach to investigating magical abuse. They were constantly taught to "obey" rather than investigate or converse. Ended up biting them in the bum too--what, with the envy demon and red lyrium and all.
The Chantry meanwhile were either too passive in trying to maintain a balance of power within the Circles, or were simply unwilling to address issues. Or acknowledge them. In some cases they even added to the problem.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 7, 2016 3:16:58 GMT
Lots of mages are pro-Circle because they fear witch hunts (sometimes justifiably, often times not), and with good reason. They'll always be outnumbered. Yes, because they fear from the wich hunters. This fact not justify this completely wrong system. I'm just saying, it's not a black and white issue. Like Viv explained, not all Circles were the same. Many mages enjoyed the protection of the Circles and it's not because they were brainwashed. Kirkwall was very extreme, and even then not entirely without reason.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 3:21:44 GMT
Yes, because they fear from the wich hunters. This fact not justify this completely wrong system. I'm just saying, it's not a black and white issue. Like Viv explained, not all Circles were the same. Many mages enjoyed the protection of the Circles and it's not because they were brainwashed. Kirkwall was very extreme, and even then not entirely without reason. A few years ago, when I played with Origin first, I found the Ferelden(!) Circle incredible unjust and cruel. I think not black and white, but #0F0F0F# #FAFAFA# ... as I see.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 7, 2016 3:24:24 GMT
I'm just saying, it's not a black and white issue. Like Viv explained, not all Circles were the same. Many mages enjoyed the protection of the Circles and it's not because they were brainwashed. Kirkwall was very extreme, and even then not entirely without reason. A few years ago, when I played with Origin first, I found the Ferelden(!) Circle incredible unjust and cruel. I think not black and white, but #0F0F0F# #FAFAFA# ... as I see. In real life, I'd be Awakening Anders. I'm stating things from an in-universe perspective, however. Re: Viv's attitude
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 3:25:13 GMT
Kirkwall was a powderkeg.
You sneeze and a demon appears.
Trust your friends...
I need to blow up shit can you help?
What? Why?
I can't tell you, it's a secret.
.....
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 3:30:54 GMT
A few years ago, when I played with Origin first, I found the Ferelden(!) Circle incredible unjust and cruel. I think not black and white, but #0F0F0F# #FAFAFA# ... as I see. In real life, I'd be Awakening Anders. I'm stating things from an in-universe perspective, however. Re: Viv's attitude Awakening Anders had fear, was angry, sad and hopeless.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 3:36:58 GMT
Kirkwall was a powderkeg. You sneeze and a demon appears. Trust your friends... I need to blow up shit can you help? From the Anders topic:
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 3:47:33 GMT
[...] What? Why? I can't tell you, it's a secret. ..... He just tryed to save Hawke to blame him/herself. And to be sure, that hes purpose succeed, of course. I's maybe hard, but I can understand his motivation.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Sept 7, 2016 4:12:48 GMT
In real life, I'd be Awakening Anders. I'm stating things from an in-universe perspective, however. Re: Viv's attitude Awakening Anders had fear, was angry, sad and hopeless. Okay. What I'm saying is, I would be wanting to escape all the time. But my personal real life feelings have no bearing on the myriad opinions and experiences of Circle mages, or my characters, necessarily.
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Post by lewie on Sept 7, 2016 4:43:26 GMT
I wish mages could be free, and protected, not by circles or templars, just an oversight in case something goes wrong. I think templars should stay to protect common folk, and deal with large threats, demons, all that. The dwarves should tell the chantry to take a long walk off a short pier.
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Post by cardbutton on Sept 7, 2016 5:51:03 GMT
Played a Dalish Mage that sided with the Templars and for the most part with Viv. She found the Rebel Mages irrational, irresponsible, and short sighted and while I could rant about it for a while, long story short (and as nuanced as the conflict was) she decided to side with the faction who was not entirely responsible for the current dilemma they found themselves in, the Templars. The best way I can describe my thoughts on the Mage Rebellion is " The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions".
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