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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 21, 2017 14:00:36 GMT
Yes? I mean, games are also a product, but sure: Art is tyranny.
...I don't quite get the point of this post.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 21, 2017 14:01:05 GMT
You could've elaborate more on what specifically you meant but I think j agree and I've shared (but not often told) the same sentiment. The same rule goes for the tendency of asking players what they want or responding to feedback with DLCs that give fans exactly what they asked for. BioWare are not always being artistic with their storytelling and my take on the ending was that the damage had been done in the first place, but BioWare owed it to themselves or their IP to fix it moreso than fans. Don't change something because I personally don't like it. Change or improve something if it is objectively faulty.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 21, 2017 14:05:00 GMT
You could've elaborate more on what specifically you meant but I think j agree and I've shared (but not often told) the same sentiment. The same rule goes for the tendency of asking players what they want or responding to feedback with DLCs that give fans exactly what they asked for. BioWare are not always being artistic with their storytelling and my take on the ending was that the damage had been done in the first place, but BioWare owed it to themselves or their IP to fix it moreso than fans. Don't change something because I personally don't like it. Change or improve something if it is objectively faulty. Well, as I said, Games are also a product... there is a reason why many many many artists in practically every medium died dirt poor, and only got notoriety long after their death. Also: Games are not protected by artistic integrity, which numerous bans and censoring efforts undertaken by governments all over the world have proven time and time again. Just recently, Outlast 2 was banned in Australia because of depictions of sexual violence...
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 14:06:01 GMT
Yes? I mean, games are also a product, but sure: Art is tyranny. ...I don't quite get the point of this post. They were sloppy. Someone made the sloppiness and someone let it stand. If they had hired the best talent, the perfectionists, it would have been a better product.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 21, 2017 14:08:13 GMT
Yes? I mean, games are also a product, but sure: Art is tyranny. ...I don't quite get the point of this post. They were sloppy. Someone made the sloppiness and someone let it stand. If they had hired the best talent, the perfectionists, it would have been a better product. Might be true... personally I think we have a whole slew of bad business and management decisions to thank for it, but sloppiness and complacency are probably factors too. Also: At least some people working in the echo chamber that is the BioWare leadership, have clearly lost the connection to the reality that is the games market and their palace in it...
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 14:09:16 GMT
Art/product. Doesn't matter.
Craft matters. Skill. Standards. Attention to detail. Care.
These make a product great, whether its chocolate, a hamburger, or art.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:09:57 GMT
I have no idea what you're talking about but I just wanted you to know that I'd rather you were Mordin Solus too. I f***in miss that guy :sob:
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 14:11:49 GMT
I have no idea what you're talking about but I just wanted you to know that I'd rather you were Mordin Solus too. I f***in miss that guy :sob: I hear ya.
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Post by jamiecotc on Mar 21, 2017 14:17:20 GMT
Art is not a democracy. It is a tyranny. We bow down before Shakespeare, Nina Simone, and Margaret Atwood because they are absolute monarchs of their craft and art. Please Bioware, hire the best. Male, female, straight, gay, and all the colours of the rainbow. But only the best. Sloppiness is unforgivable. It is breaking my heart to write this. (no hate here, please) A lot of the best were working on the game, but they left. Rest of the best was put on new IP.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Mar 21, 2017 14:18:15 GMT
Hamburgers suck, I just wanna get that out there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:21:01 GMT
I have no idea what you're talking about but I just wanted you to know that I'd rather you were Mordin Solus too. I f***in miss that guy :sob: I love that this is posted by someone named Kirrahe. Hold the line!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:23:30 GMT
I have no idea what you're talking about but I just wanted you to know that I'd rather you were Mordin Solus too. I f***in miss that guy :sob: I love that this is posted by someone named Kirrahe. Hold the line! He served under me once don't you know!
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Post by fulcrum290 on Mar 21, 2017 14:34:42 GMT
If Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey can sells then EA shall make the proper arrangement for that to happen.
Who the fuck need Albert Camus.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 14:40:13 GMT
If Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey can sells then EA shall make the proper arrangement for that to happen. Who the fuck need Albert Camus. Good point. But I think all of us here have held BW up to higher standards. Twilight is MacDonald's. Mass Effect was a Michelin rated filet mignon.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 21, 2017 14:46:15 GMT
If Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey can sells then EA shall make the proper arrangement for that to happen. Who the fuck need Albert Camus. Good point. But I think all of here have held BW up to higher standards. Twilight is MacDonald's. Mass Effect was a Michelin rated filet mignon. That's a bit much, but it certainly had more potential then what ultimately was realized... especially the first game and the early novels painted a great, believable, hard scifie universe on par with Star Trek, Firefly and - more recently - the Expanse. Then it slowly devolved into a cheap science fantasy pew-feast.
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Post by Morrigan on Mar 21, 2017 14:48:27 GMT
We bow down before Shakespeare, Tell me then, how did Hal manage to beat Hotspur in single combat? It makes no fucking sense. Hotspur is a veteran, while Hal spends all his time drinking and fooling around. Sorry. That is just a pet peeve of mine. Read Roland Barthes or Louise Rosenblatt or something. They may have other ideas about art and writing.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 21, 2017 14:53:11 GMT
Yes? I mean, games are also a product, but sure: Art is tyranny. ...I don't quite get the point of this post. It looked to me like he was trying to find a covert way to complain about diversity, actually.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 14:55:58 GMT
We bow down before Shakespeare, Tell me then, how did Hal manage to beat Hotspur in single combat? It makes no fucking sense. Hotspur is a veteran, while Hal spends all his time drinking and fooling around. Sorry. That is just a pet peeve of mine. Read Roland Barthes or Louise Rosenblatt or something. They may have other ideas about art and writing. Maybe that's a good way to think of it. MEA is Shakespeare's sloppier work. ME2 was his Macbeth/Lear etc. That's why we have to punish BW now. Make them try harder next time.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 14:59:01 GMT
Yes? I mean, games are also a product, but sure: Art is tyranny. ...I don't quite get the point of this post. It looked to me like he was trying to find a covert way to complain about diversity, actually. Not diversity. I tried to make that clear. I don't think the producers and directors were up to the task.
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Post by midasear on Mar 21, 2017 15:06:26 GMT
Twilight is MacDonald's. Mass Effect was a Michelin rated filet mignon. Twilight is a Happy Meal. Mass Effect Trilogy is a Royale with Cheese.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 21, 2017 15:08:08 GMT
Yes? I mean, games are also a product, but sure: Art is tyranny. ...I don't quite get the point of this post. It looked to me like he was trying to find a covert way to complain about diversity, actually. I gathered as much, and concerns like that are not totally unfounded in world where we replaced the benefits of diversity of thought and perspective with affirmative action programs based on irrelevant factors such as a race and gender... but I doubt that really was BW's problem this time around. I still think it's complacency on the part of BWs company leadership coupled with corporate demand by EA that caused this whole mess.
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 21, 2017 15:11:36 GMT
Interesting thoughts on 'Art'.
Is there a right and a wrong answer as far as Art goes?
Some of the great artists in history and what they produced are total garbage imo.
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Post by I'd rather be Mordin Solus on Mar 21, 2017 15:16:31 GMT
It looked to me like he was trying to find a covert way to complain about diversity, actually. I gathered as much, and concerns like that are not totally unfounded in world where we replaced the benefits of diversity of thought and perspective with affirmative action programs based on irrelevant factors such as a race and gender... but I doubt that really was BW's problem this time around. I still think it's complacency on the part of BWs company leadership coupled with corporate demand by EA that caused this whole mess. I think Bioware did keep diversity in mind when hiring. Like when Justin Trudeau made his cabinet 50% women. This is a good thing. But I'm not convinced they hired the best, male or female. How the hell could the producer/director sign off on those visuals?! In 2017? It staggers the mind.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 21, 2017 15:22:18 GMT
Maybe that's a good way to think of it. MEA is Shakespeare's sloppier work. ME2 was his Macbeth/Lear etc. ... So what's MEA? 'Two Gentlemen of Verona?', hmmm a bit short on m/m for that, 'Comedy of Errors' perhaps? Seriously though (and I loved the 10 hour trial) even a Shakespeare play with flaws has considerable merit, and I expect the same from MEA. MEA appears to have a few issues, some temporary, others more systemic. Whether that will be an ongoing issue comes down to your personal preferences, hence the polarized reviews.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 21, 2017 15:25:24 GMT
Art is not a democracy. It is a tyranny. We bow down before Shakespeare, Nina Simone, and Margaret Atwood because they are absolute monarchs of their craft and art. Please Bioware, hire the best. Male, female, straight, gay, and all the colours of the rainbow. But only the best. Sloppiness is unforgivable. It is breaking my heart to write this. (no hate here, please) ... Interestingly enough, when Bioware sometimes sticks to their vision, people throw tantrums at them, lol. I also don't see how competence has anything to do with tyranny. Bowing down to Shakespeare or Nina Simone doesn't stem from them dictating us how to do stuff - nevermind that none of them had any contact with a medium of gaming or writing for it, or the complexity of the task. A story with branching narrative and dialogue that has to work with many systems of the game is a very different animal than a stage play and we, as a culture, only began to dip our toes into this new medium. From a perspective of someone who studied art academically and is one professionally all this sounds a little forced. Art has way more to do with communication, and communication as a concept is opposite of tyranny.
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