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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2017 2:01:18 GMT
*shrugs* Whatever you feel about it, I think this was the best Mass Effect to date. It needs some patches to fix the odd bugs with quests, and more work on facial animations, but that aside, I couldn't stop playing until I finished it. It's not Witcher 3 scope when it comes to storytelling (but certainly less bugs than Witcher 3 had at launch), but it definately was all I expected from the game. I can't see where all the complaints are coming from, it's a very solid game. There's more bugs in this game than any recent AAA game apart from maybe Assassin's Creed Unity. Stop talking nonsense. And just read any of the reviews less than 80% on metacritic if you're wondering about issues this game has. Because their low score are more reliable than the ones that give the game an 8 and above?
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 2:01:20 GMT
It's an EA studio and EA is the publisher. That's easy to answer since it can only be EA. lol I think this kind of talk is like being an armchair football executive. You don't really know how that type of organization is run, and you don't know the inner-workings of that organization either. It doesn't mean a whole lot, you know? How the hell do you know what I know? You're right. I'm an armchair football executive just like you. I understand a lot of what WENT on because I HAD friends in Austin before they were let go when the IP was shelved to help Montreal. I'm a Bioware fan and I ate up everything they had to say. So, what do you know?
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 29, 2017 2:05:57 GMT
Inquisition had a budget of 100+ million. Andromeda... 40 million. This... doesn't make sense. Are there sources for these numbers?
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Post by tantumdicverbo on Mar 29, 2017 2:07:46 GMT
At this point, I pretty much have nothing but contempt for Bioware. That said, it appears from my little corner of the world that the association with EA has driven much of the former Bioware talent away and turned the company into something else. I would love to be able to heap blame on Bioware and say that EA is simply handling the business end of things, but it doesn't really seem to be the case.
As other posters have pointed out, Bioware *is* EA. I suspect that they kept the logo for purposes of plausible deniability.
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tziwen
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Tziwen
Posts: 150 Likes: 178
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by tziwen on Mar 29, 2017 2:08:48 GMT
Actually no. That's on us.
We asked for a classic ME experience: Exploration's back
We asked for relationship ME2 style: Loyalty missions are back.
We likedd ME3MMP: There it comes
We critized heavily the lack of precision when Shepard's fighting: Reworked fighting system.
Etc...
They frankenstein it -maybe too much for some- because they tried to please us too hard.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2017 2:11:27 GMT
At this point, I pretty much have nothing but contempt for Bioware. That said, it appears from my little corner of the world that the association with EA has driven much of the former Bioware talent away and turned the company into something else. I would love to be able to heap blame on Bioware and say that EA is simply handling the business end of things, but it doesn't really seem to be the case. As other posters have pointed out, Bioware *is* EA. I suspect that they kept the logo for purposes of plausible deniability.
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 29, 2017 2:12:22 GMT
Actually no. That's on us. We asked for a classic ME experience: Exploration's back We asked for relationship ME2 style: Loyalty missions are back. We likedd ME3MMP: There it comes We critized heavily the lack of precision when Shepard's fighting: Reworked fighting system. Etc... They frankenstein it -maybe too much for some- because they tried to please us too hard. Nonsense. It's problems come from the fact they didn't know what they were doing. Fans always ask for things, it's up to the developers to know how to approach that. ME2, for example, had a lot of decisions that were shaped by fan feedback, but shaped in the right way, even if it wasn't in the way many fans expected.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Mar 29, 2017 2:12:37 GMT
Inquisition had a budget of 100+ million. Witcher 3 had a budget of 80 million. Andromeda... 40 million. That's where some of the bugs and stuff went because the rest of the game is up to its usual standards. Besides, mass effect 3 aside, ever since EA aquired Bioware they have been producing bigger, better games with higher quality production values. Games like Origin or the original Mass Effect were very clunky, buggy, and sometimes very frustrating to play. I'm beggining to suspect that EA may not really have wanted to make a new BW game given the ending mess but Bioware wanted to. It explains the shoe box budget compared to many of its contemporaries. And why DA got a huge budget... And MEA is still pretty awesome. Damn. 40M for MEA? Wow. That's low compared to Inquisition, and it's better. I'm curious to what happened here. It's also amusing considering ME3 reportedly ran out of budget and time. Go figure.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 29, 2017 2:12:41 GMT
One thing to keep in mind, if there was no EA, do you think Bioware would be working on 2-3 projects at once? Do you think they'd give Mass Effect, their baby, to an unproven "C" team? These sorts of decisions wouldn't happen if there was no EA. You could actually argue that mass effect or dragon age wouldn't have gone as far as they have without joining up with EA. EA sponsors them the money to keep going, and during just ME1 bioware was having issues fund wise. There is a reason devs team up with these people, they don't intentionally want to just give up their freedom but that freedom comes with a sacrifice if you want the funding to help you out. Bioware in a seriousness really isn't a big company compared to others out there, independently they would have struggles without EA or at least some other publisher. Look a bungie as just one example, famous for making halo yet they had to sign with activision to get the 500 million dollar support. nevertheless I still feel like people blame the publishers to much, they set the deadlines and in other cases, they're merely "speculated" to tell the devs what to put in a game with no support for it. It's why I'm going to scoff at people that are saying EA and bioware are one and the same, EA doesn't make the game, bioware does. So unless someone has proof that EA picks who biowares hires and pays to work on their games, I'll keep scoffing. There's a fine line between lublisher and developer. Im owned by my boss, yet he isn't blamed for my own failings as an employee.
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tziwen
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Tziwen
Posts: 150 Likes: 178
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by tziwen on Mar 29, 2017 2:16:23 GMT
One thing to keep in mind, if there was no EA, do you think Bioware would be working on 2-3 projects at once? Do you think they'd give Mass Effect, their baby, to an unproven "C" team? These sorts of decisions wouldn't happen if there was no EA. You could actually argue that mass effect or dragon age wouldn't have gone as far as they have without joining up with EA. EA sponsors them the money to keep going, and during just ME1 bioware was having issues fund wise. There is a reason devs team up with these people, they don't intentionally want to just give up their freedom but that freedom comes with a sacrifice if you want the funding to help you out. Bioware in a seriousness really isn't a big company compared to others out there, independently they would have struggles without EA or at least some other publisher. Look a bungie as just one example, famous for making halo yet they had to sign with activision to get the 500 million dollar support. nevertheless I still feel like people blame the publishers to much, they set the deadlines and in other cases, they're merely "speculated" to tell the devs what to put in a game with no support for it. It's why I'm going to scoff at people that are saying EA and bioware are one and the same, EA doesn't make the game, bioware does. So unless someone has proof that EA picks who biowares hires and pays to work on their games, I'll keep scoffing. There's a fine line between lublisher and developer. Im owned by my boss, yet he isn't blamed for my own failings as an employee. ME2 -that most are faping thinking about it- has been made with EA money... bad EA... BAD! ME1 was made with Microsoft money... All those Bad companies... Defenetly killing the ME franchise!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 2:18:01 GMT
It's an EA studio and EA is the publisher. That's easy to answer since it can only be EA. lol I think this kind of talk is like being an armchair football executive. You don't really know how that type of organization is run, and you don't know the inner-workings of that organization either. It doesn't mean a whole lot, you know? How the hell do you know what I know? You're right. I'm an armchair football executive just like you. I understand a lot of what WENT on because I HAD friends in Austin before they were let go when the IP was shelved to help Montreal. I'm a Bioware fan and I ate up everything they had to say. So, what do you know? "You" is generally speaking, gamers in general. It's a matter of credibility. If you can't back it up then it's just talk that doesn't mean anything at the end of the day.
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pantherdane
N3
Guilty until proven innocent.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 437 Likes: 585
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Guilty until proven innocent.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pantherdane on Mar 29, 2017 2:28:09 GMT
I feel using the publishers as a scapegoat gets overused to often. All I ever hear is "EA this" or "Microsoft that", "Ubisoft this and that" and I can go on. The publisher may set the deadlines but ultimately they're not the ones making the game so I agree, bioware can share the blame on what didn't go right, and honestly there's various reasons to blame them. They're inexperience (they have been known as a rookie team with Montreal) can play a part in not polishing it up as well, having people fill in for guys who left in the middle of a project not able to carry the weight and continue on (there were some big name people so left in middle of development) but that's literally a natural part of game development, it happens and the best devs are able to get around those issues (maybe not so much if your staff is quite green as you're going to see proof they're quite new). Design choices are also on bioware as well as who they hire to be their writers, animators, etc etc. I work in a totally different field, but our parent company has many different divisions, so there are similarities to make comparisons. Corporate is corporate and they do worry about the "quarterly results" and absolutely WILL do the most stupid things to meet their projections. They don't fathom the damage their "right now" mindset often does. It can adversely effect quality and customer satisfaction which can destroy their own future sales. I have seen so many good people leave my workplace for similar corporate assholism. So, I still blame EA for pissing off good Devs until they leave and setting the budget lower than so many other projects.
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#more Asari
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 29, 2017 2:36:23 GMT
I feel using the publishers as a scapegoat gets overused to often. All I ever hear is "EA this" or "Microsoft that", "Ubisoft this and that" and I can go on. The publisher may set the deadlines but ultimately they're not the ones making the game so I agree, bioware can share the blame on what didn't go right, and honestly there's various reasons to blame them. They're inexperience (they have been known as a rookie team with Montreal) can play a part in not polishing it up as well, having people fill in for guys who left in the middle of a project not able to carry the weight and continue on (there were some big name people so left in middle of development) but that's literally a natural part of game development, it happens and the best devs are able to get around those issues (maybe not so much if your staff is quite green as you're going to see proof they're quite new). Design choices are also on bioware as well as who they hire to be their writers, animators, etc etc. I work in a totally different field, but our parent company has many different divisions, so there are similarities to make comparisons. Corporate is corporate and they do worry about the "quarterly results" and absolutely WILL do the most stupid things to meet their projections. They don't fathom the damage their "right now" mindset often does. It can adversely effect quality and customer satisfaction which can destroy their own future sales. I have seen so many good people leave my workplace for similar corporate assholism. So, I still blame EA for pissing off good Devs until they leave and setting the budget lower than so many other projects. And what info do we have of ex bioware members mention EA on their exits? I don't recall Casey hudsen mentioning EA on his leave. I also remember two key members of leadership leaving soon as ME3 launched, could've sworn they just got tired of fan backlash and wanted to move into other projects in life, plus they had been at bioware for quite some time anyways so passion was fading. I can't speak for ex bioware members, but I'd love to see some of them mentioning it. Regardless I'm sure devs absolutely due have issues with their publishers time to time, the thing is if they truly disliked them, end the contract.
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Madflavor
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 486 Likes: 1,191
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Madflavor on Mar 29, 2017 2:44:13 GMT
Who's to blame? EA or Bioware? I think the answer to the question is more complicated than you think guys. I think it's more accurate to say that Mass Effect: Andromeda was likely doomed from the beginning. And THAT was EA's fault.
They took a studio, a smalltime studio, full of lesser talented and experienced people, and dropped this game on them. These people had experience with ME3's MP and one of it's DLCs. That's it. Do you guys know how difficult it is to make a well designed Open World game these days? It's not easy. Neither is making an RPG. And Bioware Montreal, who had no experience in either of these things, let alone making a full game, had to do both. On top of that, it's very clear that this game was not ready to be released when it did, and that EA pushed them on the release date.
Yes, there are some things that Bioware Montreal screwed up on. But many of these things most likely would not have happened, if better management and decisions were made from the very beginning by the higher ups. You don't take your flagship franchise and give it to a smaller studio with no experience in making full games, expecting great results.
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xeth
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Post by xeth on Mar 29, 2017 2:44:42 GMT
There's more bugs in this game than any recent AAA game apart from maybe Assassin's Creed Unity. Stop talking nonsense. And just read any of the reviews less than 80% on metacritic if you're wondering about issues this game has. Well, I speak from having actually played it myself to the very end. 123 hours in the game so far, and first playthrough I spent 100+ hours on, 92% completion. I know what bugs I encountered. I agree, don't know where all the hate is coming from. I mean, sure there are negatives: Animations - sure I noticed some in my playthrough, and I do mean some, I may have missed a few, but they're not staring me in the face for the WHOLE game Story - yea sure it could use some work, and it's not as 'urgent' as MET. But honestly, I like how andromeda's story is more relaxed and focused on exploring the unknown. I mean, if they're gonna use the 'huge threat to the galaxy looming over our heads' concept again then they might as well use Shepard, again. Combat - I'm honestly enjoying it more Character creator - now this one's bad. It's like the cc for the series has devolved With all that said, there's probably more negative stuff that makes some people day the game is bad. But I haven't experienced anything gamebreaking, nothing has made me stop and say this game sucks. I honestly think some of the naysayers are just overreacting to the negative reviews and haven't really played the game. I pkay on pc and I have a friend who was on the fence about buying the game on ps4, saying 'bad graphics according to reviews'. So i showed him the game from my pc, made him try to play it for a few hours and he then bought the game. I'm not really a fanboy, and this post has been long it feels like I'm fanboying defending the game so I'll stop here. It's just a bit sad seeing some people blatantly saying this game is crap without even playing it, just because of negative reviews. IMHO: it isn't crap, and the positives outweigh the negatives. There's nothing gamebreaking.
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Post by parnashwind on Mar 29, 2017 2:47:24 GMT
Actually no. That's on us. We asked for a classic ME experience: Exploration's back We asked for relationship ME2 style: Loyalty missions are back. We likedd ME3MMP: There it comes We critized heavily the lack of precision when Shepard's fighting: Reworked fighting system. Etc... They frankenstein it -maybe too much for some- because they tried to please us too hard. Exploration is good! Loyalty missions good! Combat system excellent. So no, we are not to be blamed. What we didnt ask for are the bugs bugs bugs!! If it was EA's decision to pass this game to an inexperience splinter studio of Bioware... well then we should still blame EA.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 2:48:25 GMT
Actually no. That's on us. We asked for a classic ME experience: Exploration's back We asked for relationship ME2 style: Loyalty missions are back. We likedd ME3MMP: There it comes We critized heavily the lack of precision when Shepard's fighting: Reworked fighting system. Etc... They frankenstein it -maybe too much for some- because they tried to please us too hard. That's a possibility, but EA could give a rip what you and I think. Bioware needed to limit the scope and keep the talented workforce. One or two leads can mean anything. When several leave and they're leaving their "baby" behind... there is a problem. A fundamental one. Who knows what it was, but I hope it gets fixed before it all gets burned.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kino on Mar 29, 2017 2:49:21 GMT
hah. "fanboys with sensitive egos"...says the dude ranting on a fan forum. Ironic, that's what that is.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 2:49:54 GMT
How the hell do you know what I know? You're right. I'm an armchair football executive just like you. I understand a lot of what WENT on because I HAD friends in Austin before they were let go when the IP was shelved to help Montreal. I'm a Bioware fan and I ate up everything they had to say. So, what do you know? "You" is generally speaking, gamers in general. It's a matter of credibility. If you can't back it up then it's just talk that doesn't mean anything at the end of the day. Shut up Snowflake. Damn troll. Say something smart.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 2:51:12 GMT
hah. "fanboys with sensitive egos"...says the dude ranting on a fan forum. Ironic, that's what that is. I can't criticize the game. Sorry, if I offend your sensitive ego, snowflake.
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Post by kino on Mar 29, 2017 2:54:52 GMT
hah. "fanboys with sensitive egos"...says the dude ranting on a fan forum. Ironic, that's what that is. I can't criticize the game. Sorry, if I offend your sensitive ego, snowflake. It's okay, cupcake. We'll find your binky. You'll be fine. In all seriousness, I could give a shit if you criticize the game. It's just the whole fanboy accusation on a fan forum. The irony is delicious.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 2:57:44 GMT
I feel using the publishers as a scapegoat gets overused to often. All I ever hear is "EA this" or "Microsoft that", "Ubisoft this and that" and I can go on. The publisher may set the deadlines but ultimately they're not the ones making the game so I agree, bioware can share the blame on what didn't go right, and honestly there's various reasons to blame them. They're inexperience (they have been known as a rookie team with Montreal) can play a part in not polishing it up as well, having people fill in for guys who left in the middle of a project not able to carry the weight and continue on (there were some big name people so left in middle of development) but that's literally a natural part of game development, it happens and the best devs are able to get around those issues (maybe not so much if your staff is quite green as you're going to see proof they're quite new). Design choices are also on bioware as well as who they hire to be their writers, animators, etc etc. I work in a totally different field, but our parent company has many different divisions, so there are similarities to make comparisons. Corporate is corporate and they do worry about the "quarterly results" and absolutely WILL do the most stupid things to meet their projections. They don't fathom the damage their "right now" mindset often does. It can adversely effect quality and customer satisfaction which can destroy their own future sales. I have seen so many good people leave my workplace for similar corporate assholism. So, I still blame EA for pissing off good Devs until they leave and setting the budget lower than so many other projects. So, do you think it's EA pushing away the talent? That could be the very case, but Bioware still has to protect their best assets: Veterans and leaders. I don't know, I've always been under the impression that all decisions come from Bioware based on EA's expectations. I didn't think EA was directly involved.
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Post by tantumdicverbo on Mar 29, 2017 2:58:15 GMT
At this point, I pretty much have nothing but contempt for Bioware. That said, it appears from my little corner of the world that the association with EA has driven much of the former Bioware talent away and turned the company into something else. I would love to be able to heap blame on Bioware and say that EA is simply handling the business end of things, but it doesn't really seem to be the case. As other posters have pointed out, Bioware *is* EA. I suspect that they kept the logo for purposes of plausible deniability. Heh. Well, I guess it gives me focus indirectly. Bioware once represented a heavy percentage of my gaming time. They don't produce much that I care to buy anymore (although the bargain bin purchase of ME3 provided a lot of MP entertainment), but I haven't really migrated to other kinds of games. The result is that I just don't do much gaming these days. So, although I may be disappointed with Bioware's creative direction, it has increased my productivity. I was holding some hope that ME:A might lure me back, but nah. To me, Bioware is like the crazy ex-girlfriend. She ain't gonna pull it together, and neither is Bioware.
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goishen
twitch.tv/goishen
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goishen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by goishen on Mar 29, 2017 2:59:25 GMT
I dunno. This game looks and feels like a SW:TOR expansion. I'm subbed to that, and I can't even name one character in it. No wait, Scorpio the deadly robot. Or was that last expansion? I dunno. These characters aren't gonna last me through the night, much less the rest of my life.
EDIT : Oh yah, and the mandalorian who got shot. I'm playing dark side, they just ran up and said, "Hey, drop all your weapons (or something like that) or we're gonna shoot him now." I was like, fuck it. Shoot him. They did. Wished after he was dead that I remembered his name.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 2:59:56 GMT
I can't criticize the game. Sorry, if I offend your sensitive ego, snowflake. It's okay, cupcake. We'll find your binky. You'll be fine. In all seriousness, I could give a shit if you criticize the game. It's just the whole fanboy accusation on a fan forum. The irony is delicious. The irony is delicious? Do you know what irony is? Besides, in all seriousness, these are the unofficial forums. No one important is listening.
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