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Post by vonuber on Mar 29, 2017 7:15:25 GMT
What is all on bioware? The 30 hours (so far) of entertainment I've had out of the game? Fair enough.
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Post by xeth on Mar 29, 2017 7:16:28 GMT
All you fanboys with your sensitive egos... just tolerate me like I tolerate you. Hey, sometimes you're right and I completely agree with you. This is the internet and tolerance of any kind does not exist here. Either you will comply to the group mind or else or you will be declared an SJW and be taken to a so-called "safe space" for processing. In all seriousness: I honestly don't care if you love it or hate it, I don' care what people on Metacritic says at the end of the day it's always going to be my opinion that matters the most to me. Not yours. Or Jim Sterling. Or Angry Joe. Or Polygon. Or somebody I will never met in my life (and never will meet in the real world) on Metacritic. anybody's opinion. I will buy the DLC and support it. Your opinion has been made just don't insult people who don't share your opinion. You don't like it, we get it. Now may I suggest you move on with your life? My tolerance is finite. I agree with you on that. It's fine to criticize/hate or love the game, just don't insult people for having a different opinion than yours. In the end my own opinion of the game is the one that matters to me, and I'm enjoying the game. I honestly think people who are hating on the game and haven't bought it are missing out on something enjoyable and good. And that is MY opinion. PS: This is coming from someone with 132 hrs played (according to Origin) split between story and multiplayer
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XBL Gamertag: pydsie31
PSN: pyder31
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 29, 2017 7:16:39 GMT
I posted this a similar thread, and it carries over. As much as some people like to think games are art, they're still business.
I know people hate EA because they're just suits and whatever, but you can't blame a game's lack of quality entirely on them. They had 5 years, 1 confirmed delay, and I remember people speculating about a second that was probably in there. At some point the game has to come out.
Like, if a band hit the recording studio wanted a year studio time to record the album, and then another year to produce, you couldn't really blame the label if they said "no fuck that. We're not paying for two years worth of studio time and people who work on it. You said you could do it in 6 months, max we'll give you is 9" is entirely reasonable.
The money you're given needs to be paid back at some point.
Point the fingers at Bioware internally. They were likely the ones who initially said "We can hit Q3 of the fiscal year for sure" that set the fiscal expectation, ok'd and directed a lot of the design decisions, literally lied about features, didn't say "No, we literally cannot spend time on this" during development to spend time on other things that needed focus, etc. I doubt it was EA that led to writers and producers leaving mid-production.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 29, 2017 7:20:11 GMT
Inquisition had a budget of 100+ million. Witcher 3 had a budget of 80 million. Andromeda... 40 million. That's where some of the bugs and stuff went because the rest of the game is up to its usual standards. Besides, mass effect 3 aside, ever since EA aquired Bioware they have been producing bigger, better games with higher quality production values. Games like Origin or the original Mass Effect were very clunky, buggy, and sometimes very frustrating to play. I'm beggining to suspect that EA may not really have wanted to make a new BW game given the ending mess but Bioware wanted to. It explains the shoe box budget compared to many of its contemporaries. And why DA got a huge budget... And MEA is still pretty awesome. Where do these numbers come from? I'm legitimately curious. Every time I see DAI and TW3 brought up the numbers are different. Sometimes DAI is 60, 50, 80, etc. Sometimes the Witcher is as low as 30, 40.
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PSN: pyder31
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 29, 2017 7:27:10 GMT
Who's to blame? EA or Bioware? I think the answer to the question is more complicated than you think guys. I think it's more accurate to say that Mass Effect: Andromeda was likely doomed from the beginning. And THAT was EA's fault. They took a studio, a smalltime studio, full of lesser talented and experienced people, and dropped this game on them. These people had experience with ME3's MP and one of it's DLCs. That's it. Do you guys know how difficult it is to make a well designed Open World game these days? It's not easy. Neither is making an RPG. And Bioware Montreal, who had no experience in either of these things, let alone making a full game, had to do both. On top of that, it's very clear that this game was not ready to be released when it did, and that EA pushed them on the release date. Yes, there are some things that Bioware Montreal screwed up on. But many of these things most likely would not have happened, if better management and decisions were made from the very beginning by the higher ups. You don't take your flagship franchise and give it to a smaller studio with no experience in making full games, expecting great results. I don't know about the bolded. Maybe inexperienced in Bioware games, but Montreal has a zillion game studios. I can feel a sort of Assassins Creed to the game so they probably got guys from Ubisoft. Eidos is out there. Like, you don't "open" a studio without trying to poach some high end guys from elsewhere. I was under the impression that Bioware was really aggressive in picking up a lot of guys when the Bioshock studio closed up shop, and I'd imagine those guys would either want to go to California or Montreal, maybe Vancouver or Austin. The Montreal studio is somewhere around 500 people if some numbers from an old fiscal or quarterly release are to be believed. Thats a ton of people I doubt Bioware picked a team full of fresh-faced graduates for the team.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 7:30:49 GMT
Inquisition had a budget of 100+ million. Witcher 3 had a budget of 80 million. Andromeda... 40 million. That's where some of the bugs and stuff went because the rest of the game is up to its usual standards. Besides, mass effect 3 aside, ever since EA aquired Bioware they have been producing bigger, better games with higher quality production values. Games like Origin or the original Mass Effect were very clunky, buggy, and sometimes very frustrating to play. I'm beggining to suspect that EA may not really have wanted to make a new BW game given the ending mess but Bioware wanted to. It explains the shoe box budget compared to many of its contemporaries. And why DA got a huge budget... And MEA is still pretty awesome. Where do these numbers come from? I'm legitimately curious. Every time I see DAI and TW3 brought up the numbers are different. Sometimes DAI is 60, 50, 80, etc. Sometimes the Witcher is as low as 30, 40. We don't really know. Some say The Witcher 3 cost 34 million, but spent 81 million when you count marketing. Andromeda reports is 40 million, + marketing. Inquisition i am not sure. Trying to find out.
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Origin: ATR16
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PSN: pyder31
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 29, 2017 7:38:19 GMT
I work in a totally different field, but our parent company has many different divisions, so there are similarities to make comparisons. Corporate is corporate and they do worry about the "quarterly results" and absolutely WILL do the most stupid things to meet their projections. They don't fathom the damage their "right now" mindset often does. It can adversely effect quality and customer satisfaction which can destroy their own future sales. I have seen so many good people leave my workplace for similar corporate assholism. So, I still blame EA for pissing off good Devs until they leave and setting the budget lower than so many other projects. So, do you think it's EA pushing away the talent? That could be the very case, but Bioware still has to protect their best assets: Veterans and leaders. I don't know, I've always been under the impression that all decisions come from Bioware based on EA's expectations. I didn't think EA was directly involved. Hmmm. I would say that EA could pressure for sure and the general culture of EA could be a turn off, but at the same time Bioware has their own internal leadership and HR and everything. If you have strong leadership you should be able to make it work. Like a good GM or coach in sports who acts as the middle man from the players to ownership. Keep ownership feeling happy and speak the corporate words to make them happy, and then find the way to make sure that message gets to the employees in a way that creates a good atmosphere. Works for game features, design, all of that. Ownership can say one thing and to a degree you bend, but at the same time you have to have your own leadership push back and say "No, this is our vision." If the people running Bioware caved to EA demands that weren't good and just were Yes Men, then it speaks internally to how Bioware is run.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 10:21:10 GMT
So, do you think it's EA pushing away the talent? That could be the very case, but Bioware still has to protect their best assets: Veterans and leaders. I don't know, I've always been under the impression that all decisions come from Bioware based on EA's expectations. I didn't think EA was directly involved. Hmmm. I would say that EA could pressure for sure and the general culture of EA could be a turn off, but at the same time Bioware has their own internal leadership and HR and everything. If you have strong leadership you should be able to make it work. Like a good GM or coach in sports who acts as the middle man from the players to ownership. Keep ownership feeling happy and speak the corporate words to make them happy, and then find the way to make sure that message gets to the employees in a way that creates a good atmosphere. Works for game features, design, all of that. Ownership can say one thing and to a degree you bend, but at the same time you have to have your own leadership push back and say "No, this is our vision." If the people running Bioware caved to EA demands that weren't good and just were Yes Men, then it speaks internally to how Bioware is run. This is my assumption as well. It's an assumption and I'm no one, but I can't seem to see it any other way. Thank you.
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Post by cotheer on Mar 29, 2017 10:29:19 GMT
At this point i may sound like a broken record, but, this time EA was willing to give BW another 5 months of development time, something that was clearly needed and BW still pushed out the game and thought that "My face is tired" was good enough.
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Guilty until proven innocent.
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Post by pantherdane on Mar 29, 2017 10:31:38 GMT
Who's to blame? EA or Bioware? I think the answer to the question is more complicated than you think guys. I think it's more accurate to say that Mass Effect: Andromeda was likely doomed from the beginning. And THAT was EA's fault. They took a studio, a smalltime studio, full of lesser talented and experienced people, and dropped this game on them. These people had experience with ME3's MP and one of it's DLCs. That's it. Do you guys know how difficult it is to make a well designed Open World game these days? It's not easy. Neither is making an RPG. And Bioware Montreal, who had no experience in either of these things, let alone making a full game, had to do both. On top of that, it's very clear that this game was not ready to be released when it did, and that EA pushed them on the release date. Yes, there are some things that Bioware Montreal screwed up on. But many of these things most likely would not have happened, if better management and decisions were made from the very beginning by the higher ups. You don't take your flagship franchise and give it to a smaller studio with no experience in making full games, expecting great results. This goes along with what I was saying. My company has 3 locations that make similar products so Corporate decides who makes what and where. Well, they just spent millions last year setting up a couple new production lines in our oldest, least supported plant and this year decided to shut down that plant. Now all of that equipment is being relocated, including the new line just installed. Money blown and more gonna be blown relocating. That is all on the parent company. Corporate makes mistakes, bad calls, bad investments, bad distribution of work. Its still THEIR call and their money being invested so they make the big decisions and everyone else does what they can with what they have. I still blame EA. They decided which group got this job. They decided how much would be invested. They decided when it should be done. If it should have been delayed, that was EA's call. .
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 10:41:38 GMT
Well, for my own personal and selfish reasons, I hope Bioware gets through this. I know experience on any software platform will allow the creativity to flow a lot more easier. I know they can turn out a great game that would shut all of the internet up because there are SO MANY elements that it gets right. It's the entire package that lacks and I guess that is okay in this industry. If I ever released a report that buggy to the public, I would be so fired.
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Elfen Lied
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Fatebinder
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Post by Elfen Lied on Mar 29, 2017 11:06:58 GMT
So would it be possible that they shifted their best resources to the new IP and then they used the remaining ones for this game because they didn't believe in it? If that's the case the blame (IF there is a blame because I have still to see for myself) is all on EA.
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Post by annerogers on Mar 29, 2017 11:07:57 GMT
There's more bugs in this game than any recent AAA game apart from maybe Assassin's Creed Unity. Stop talking nonsense. And just read any of the reviews less than 80% on metacritic if you're wondering about issues this game has. Because their low score are more reliable than the ones that give the game an 8 and above? A 6/10 or 7/10 is "low"? Why even have a 1-10 scale then? As for high scores, I recall Dragon Age 2 getting 9/10 and 10/10 and Best Game of the Year (and Bioware was certainly willing to splash those scores all over the Internet)- those scores were so reliable, right?
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Post by force58 on Mar 29, 2017 11:10:16 GMT
I'm reading all these posts complaining about the game, everything from the story content, the animations, to the voice actors used. I swear I must be playing a different game. Aside from a few animation glitches, I'm loving all aspects of the game. This is set 600 years in the future from ME3, we don't need Shepard and the original crew to make the game good. The reviews I've read are all skewed in as far as knocking Andromeda for not having the same crew, or some of the crew, or any real tie-in to the series. Well, there are tie-in's, not just as many as I guess a lot of you wanted. What really did you all expect???
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Post by force58 on Mar 29, 2017 11:15:54 GMT
There's more bugs in this game than any recent AAA game apart from maybe Assassin's Creed Unity. Stop talking nonsense. And just read any of the reviews less than 80% on metacritic if you're wondering about issues this game has. Because their low score are more reliable than the ones that give the game an 8 and above? I agree with Wintermist, this ME is the best to date for me. It isn't nonsense. I'm not experiencing any of the issues you all mention, aside from a few graphical glitches I noted in my last post. I haven't finished the game yet, but so far the story is amazing, the characters (my crew) are what I expected. I had reservations about whether I'd be able to connect to any of them like I did to Shepard and the original crew, but I have. Just because a few of you have negative experiences with the game doesn't mean everybody does. Reviews mean nothing, especially Metacritic. The only way to really review a game is to watch Twitch/YouTube, or play it yourself. Oh, by the way, this is not the most bug'd game ever as you put it. The Division at launch was THE MOST bug'd game of all time. Thank you.
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Post by annerogers on Mar 29, 2017 11:17:54 GMT
What is all on bioware? The 30 hours (so far) of entertainment I've had out of the game? Fair enough. I didn't know there were that many hours of Bioware's incompetence on Youtube already.
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Post by darkway1 on Mar 29, 2017 11:31:39 GMT
First.....From my understanding,the new frostbite engine was only one part of EA's new development structure,basically all EA studio's continually contribute to an EA frostbite asset pool,shader's,lighting,sfx,environments etc are all shared between EA studio's.The reason for this approach is to vastly speed up game development,so for example pre made environments (desert,snow etc) can easily be tailored to suit any games needs.
Second.....Mass Effect is a franchise,so most of what we see in Andromeda is already established,again the big advantage of building on a franchise is the reduction of development time,races,lore,even characters are already established.
Thirdly.....The Mass Effect game structure has gone open world but the game structure is not new,first seen in KOTOR,then DAI and now ME-A.....this is a normal practice seen by countless developers (Ubisoft,Warner etc) and again the purpose of this is to reduce development time.
Overall this means that Bioware was in a very good place when developing a new Mass Effect game.
So after 5 years of development It's a shame to see such substandard writing,poor direction and lack lustre character designs....the core elements of what made Bioware a fan favourite of the story driven RPG genre.This time round I don't see how anyone can blame EA,it's all on Bioware.
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Guilty until proven innocent.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pantherdane on Mar 29, 2017 11:38:16 GMT
I'm reading all these posts complaining about the game, everything from the story content, the animations, to the voice actors used. I swear I must be playing a different game. Aside from a few animation glitches, I'm loving all aspects of the game. This is set 600 years in the future from ME3, we don't need Shepard and the original crew to make the game good. The reviews I've read are all skewed in as far as knocking Andromeda for not having the same crew, or some of the crew, or any real tie-in to the series. Well, there are tie-in's, not just as many as I guess a lot of you wanted. What really did you all expect??? Yeah, I like the game and story (so far-havent finished yet). My only issues are the REAL ones, that there are problems with a few bugs. These issues can be fixed and games ship with bugs these days. No big deal to me. I wouldnt rate it as low as many have but its all hate because they are demanding Shep since it carries the ME name. To me its the same universe but in another cluster so its fine by me to call it ME. The 600 years really doesnt matter due to distance. It may as well be still the time between ME2 and ME3.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 11:43:22 GMT
First.....From my understanding,the new frostbite engine was only one part of EA's new development structure,basically all EA studio's continually contribute to an EA frostbite asset pool,shader's,lighting,sfx,environments etc are all shared between EA studio's.The reason for this approach is to vastly speed up game development,so for example pre made environments (desert,snow etc) can easily be tailored to suit any games needs. Second.....Mass Effect is a franchise,so most of what we see in Andromeda is already established,again the big advantage of building on a franchise is the reduction of development time,races,lore,even characters are already established. Thirdly.....The Mass Effect game structure has gone open world but the game structure is not new,first seen in KOTOR,then DAI and now ME-A.....this is a normal practice seen by countless developers (Ubisoft,Warner etc) and again the purpose of this is to reduce development time. Overall this means that Bioware was in a very good place when developing a new Mass Effect game. So after 5 years of development It's a shame to see such substandard writing,poor direction and lack lustre character designs....the core elements of what made Bioware a fan favourite of the story driven RPG genre.This time round I don't see how anyone can blame EA,it's all on Bioware. Thank you. That's how I see it, too. Sigh.
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Post by tantumdicverbo on Mar 29, 2017 11:49:16 GMT
I don't recall Casey hudsen mentioning EA on his leave. I also remember two key members of leadership leaving soon as ME3 launched, could've sworn they just got tired of fan backlash and wanted to move into other projects in life, plus they had been at bioware for quite some time anyways so passion was fading. I can't speak for ex bioware members, but I'd love to see some of them mentioning it. I think Casey Hudson appeared in a short video with two other former Bioware writers going directly after EA and saying that much of the BW talent bailed because EA was breaking down the company, just as EA has done with others. I remember thinking that it seemed unusual and that they must have been furious, since that sort of thing usually isn't done (as you pointed out).
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,515 Likes: 2,604
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Mar 29, 2017 11:57:59 GMT
I don't recall Casey hudsen mentioning EA on his leave. I also remember two key members of leadership leaving soon as ME3 launched, could've sworn they just got tired of fan backlash and wanted to move into other projects in life, plus they had been at bioware for quite some time anyways so passion was fading. I can't speak for ex bioware members, but I'd love to see some of them mentioning it. I think Casey Hudson appeared in a short video with two other former Bioware writers going directly after EA and saying that much of the BW talent bailed because EA was breaking down the company, just as EA has done with others. I remember thinking that it seemed unusual and that they must have been furious, since that sort of thing usually isn't done (as you pointed out). I can't find that video you're talking about. However, any business needs to grow. New people need to step up and lead and replace those that have left. The pattern that I'm seeing is that a lot of people are not wanting to take the lead and just leave the company which I think is crazy. You really have to be at odds with your boss or peers to quit. People lose passion and move on when newer opportunities come their way. I get that. It's the passing of the torch and it seems carrying the torch is more trouble than its worth. So many leads quitting means there is a horrible disconnect somewhere and EA, to me at least, is too far above that level of action to care.
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GraphiteGal_636
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 22 Likes: 16
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Jul 20, 2017 21:01:23 GMT
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GraphiteGal_636
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August 2016
onemore68
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by GraphiteGal_636 on Mar 29, 2017 12:04:36 GMT
well i haven't finished the new game yet, 20% complete, but have put hundreds of hours into several other Bioware titles, including ME trilogy.
Haven't quite made my mind up yet but imho MEA is NOT in the same league as the original.
It feels like its written by a very inexperienced team of writers. the dialogue options are shallow and childish occasionally, the voice acting doesn't help, especially with a female Ryder. And I find Liam and Cora grate on my nerves as squadmates (did you have to have all that grunting whenever a squadmate jumps anywhere?).
When the fans were promised a return to their roots as making solid, well-written rpg's, i don't feel that MEA delivers at all in this area. Mass Effect 1 was a well-crafted game and deserves the praise it gets, despite having issues such as a clumsy combat system and average graphics, it was still popular and people played it several times over. Not sure i could be bothered this time. And i think this is part of the problem with modern games based in open worlds, they can become too big. After just finishing Fallout 4 after five months, i never felt bored with it. yes there are tedious filler missions and settlements isn't everyone's cup of tea plus it wasn't without issues, but it didn't feel like a chore. At times, particularly until you unlock stuff, MEA feels very tedious.
The mining system and planet exploration are unecessarily complex as are some of the GUI's. A mismatch of the systems used in previous games and supposedly "improved" upon.
I will carry on playing it because I can't get a refund but will i buy anything else Bioware/EA related? I dunno.
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Post by Cannibal on Mar 29, 2017 12:05:52 GMT
Why blame either company, when the person involved in the creative direction of the game has a name - Mac Walters.
That's where every problem with this game starts and ends.
Bugs are bugs are bugs, they can and should be patched. Also I experienced none of these game breaking bugs that people say they have but yet still continued to play the game so how game broke I don't know.
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ApocAlypsE
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 853 Likes: 943
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apocalypse
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Mar 29, 2017 12:08:44 GMT
Then who decided to throw the supposedly "Flagship franchise" to the most incompetent team in Bioware?
Who decided to push Andromeda ahead while working on another project despite quite a few leaps in logic in order to avoid the RGB endings? Why didn't the series end with ME3 Citadel DLC?
Why so many escaped Bioware during the last few years? What is up with all the rumors of sleepless overworked employees and what is up with all the former employees that throw shit at Bioware and are bitter from the time working there? Are they all just bitter from personal reasons?
Granted, who developed the game are Bioware themselves, and I doubt it's EA's fault that they are incompetent programmers and their QA doesn't exist, but EA is FAR from getting clean from this one.
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GraphiteGal_636
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 22 Likes: 16
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GraphiteGal_636
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August 2016
onemore68
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by GraphiteGal_636 on Mar 29, 2017 12:14:34 GMT
Why blame either company, when the person involved in the creative direction of the game has a name - Mac Walters. That's where every problem with this game starts and ends. Bugs are bugs are bugs, they can and should be patched. Also I experienced none of these game breaking bugs that people say they have but yet still continued to play the game so how game broke I don't know. mine was fine during the trial but after the patch i got corrupted Autosaves, stuck in walls and just closing and going to the desktop or hanging on a reload. Running i7 6800K + GTX 1080 + 32GB of RAM plus Windows 10 64-bit. all up to date, so its odd to say the least.
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