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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 5, 2017 18:37:02 GMT
That's the lamest comeback I have ever heard.
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Post by annerogers on Apr 5, 2017 18:37:56 GMT
My headcanon has nothing to do with this thread my dear, and if you wonder if I have a problem with peeps doing the straight mod with Dorian or Sera you're so wrong lol Who gave you permission to be familiar with me, Miss Thang? And if headcanon is fine, why whine about Jaal 'officially' being bi? Why whine about representation at all? Why attempt the worn-out 'if you disagree with me you're a bigot meanie poopy-head' impugnment?
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Post by lurkinglurker on Apr 5, 2017 18:38:42 GMT
Boi, the #MakeJaalBi weaklings have arrived. you're still using the fake Joker as profile pic? #shame What does the user's profile pic have to do with anything?
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Post by Alien Fodder on Apr 5, 2017 18:39:41 GMT
Well during ME3 we had people demanding Kaiden be retconned all the way to ME1 to be Gay only. That move felt so forced and shoehorned. Kaidan should have been bi from the beginning of the trilogy. The fact that it was done only in the 3rd installment of the trilogy made absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm finishing the Voeld story-arc at the moment (or at least I think I am) and seeing how Jaal's story has been fleshed out, BW has made him a perfect choice as a partner for Ryder. And even though I'm a straight female and I have Jaal romancing my Sara, I really feel for the gay gamers who have been deprived of a romance between Scott and Jaal because I'm sure it could be a very beautiful thing. If BW makes Jaal bi at some point, I'm definitely going to start a new Scott playthrough just to romance him - after Vetra though because she's one sexy female Turian and I simply can't resist her!
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Post by Tekehu's booty on Apr 5, 2017 18:40:57 GMT
My headcanon has nothing to do with this thread my dear, and if you wonder if I have a problem with peeps doing the straight mod with Dorian or Sera you're so wrong lol Who gave you permission to be familiar with me, Miss Thang? And if headcanon is fine, why whine about Jaal 'officially' being bi? Why whine about representation at all? Why attempt the worn-out 'if you disagree with me you're a bigot meanie poopy-head' impugnment? My dear, your homophobia has been triggered, my work here is done! Don't slip with your puke.
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Post by lurkinglurker on Apr 5, 2017 18:44:35 GMT
Who gave you permission to be familiar with me, Miss Thang? And if headcanon is fine, why whine about Jaal 'officially' being bi? Why whine about representation at all? Why attempt the worn-out 'if you disagree with me you're a bigot meanie poopy-head' impugnment? My dear, your homophobia has been triggered, my work here is done! Don't slip with your puke. So you came into this thread just to paint someone as a homophobe? Why do you feel the need to get so defensive that you must do this? You realize what happens when someone is seen as one who hates an entire group right (insults, threats, harassment to the individual)? I would really take the time to think about what I'm posting if I were you.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 5, 2017 18:51:50 GMT
^^ Weaklings.
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Pyrceval78
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Burninating the thatched roof cottages.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Pyrceval78 on Apr 5, 2017 18:56:54 GMT
I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak, either way, however nickclark? Seriously... it's pretty sad and undermines your goals of inclusion when you fail to recognize a good logical point that was made and not be able to make a point logically yourself.
Personally though, if developers decide to have romance options as a thing, I see no reason not to allow either gender to go that route with whomever they wish. If you dont like, it doesnt have to be part of your playthrough, but if you do like it its there for you. Optional content is just that: optional.
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Post by Cirvante on Apr 5, 2017 18:59:29 GMT
That's a life or death situation no is dying because they can't fuck Jaal as a male in this game. I couldn't romance Sera in DA:I as a straight male but I got over it. If they really wanna bang Jaal so badly just make a female Ryder or use mods. Sera wasn't intended to be romanced by straight guys. Jaal was originally bi. It was cut due to time constraints. M/m romance is always cut. Nothing for you gamer bros is ever cut. I'm reasonably sure that part of Sera's romance was voiced by a male inquisitor. Someone dug up the audio files and made a straight Sera mod. I have screens of lesbians going fucking balistic over it.
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Bann Duncan
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 5, 2017 19:00:57 GMT
That was true of ME1, but since ME2 if a companion is romanceable for your character and you don't do their romance, you miss out on a huge amount of basically 'friendship' conversation. Once they get their way and make Jaal bi, there will be probably two non romance conversations with him total. More evidence that romance subplot hinders the game. Honestly, some romance story adds to story and some don't. It's just BioWare has had a history of writing romance into their games doesn't mean games that don't have it automatically suck. It's NOT a good thing that player now expect romance as a feature even before they know what the game is about or whether romance is appropriate to the tone of the story or the setting. It's NOT good that that this is now an expected feature that BioWare HAS TO check off a list when they write their stories. Some of them are great and integrate with the story well, but you're right that it's become a check list item now because of the fanbase's pressure in BW. Liara's is excellent, for instance, and that's informed a lot by the fact that she's the most important character in the trilogy after Shepard (who she loves in some form whether or not the romance is pursued.) The options in Origins all had strong story hooks as well. ME2 is when they started to move to a laundry list of options (including pure fanservice in the form of the Tali one). ME2 is one of my favorite games ever, so I'm definitely not hating on it. All of the options in the fantastic Jade Empire were really well integrated. Re: your bolded points, exactly! What's worse is that the romance fanbases are so strong that even when trying to avoid spoilers, I inevitably know who all the romances are before a game begins. This is significant because it's basically a massive spoiler about how a character's conversations with the main character could go and I hate that that happens. I didn't go into KotOR thinking that Revan would fall in love with Bastila and help her come back from the Dark Side, or into Jade Empire (same goes for DA) thinking my PC would end up Prince of a country. The surprise and reveals about characters are part of what make BioWare games so great.
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Post by annerogers on Apr 5, 2017 19:00:59 GMT
Who gave you permission to be familiar with me, Miss Thang? And if headcanon is fine, why whine about Jaal 'officially' being bi? Why whine about representation at all? Why attempt the worn-out 'if you disagree with me you're a bigot meanie poopy-head' impugnment? My dear, your homophobia has been triggered, my work here is done! Don't slip with your puke. Honey, not everyone that disagrees with you is a bigot. Apparently Tumblr didn't teach that life lesson. BTW still waiting on why you need 'official' endorsement of your fanfiction.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 5, 2017 19:03:10 GMT
Sera wasn't intended to be romanced by straight guys. Jaal was originally bi. It was cut due to time constraints. M/m romance is always cut. Nothing for you gamer bros is ever cut. I'm reasonably sure that part of Sera's romance was voiced by a male inquisitor. Someone dug up the audio files and made a straight Sera mod. I have screens of lesbians going fucking balistic over it. Sera is the worst character in the history of BioWare (as IMO they realized during production, considering I have never seen a BW game with that many options to kick someone out of your party) but I would love to see those!
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 5, 2017 19:03:32 GMT
My dear, your homophobia has been triggered, my work here is done! Don't slip with your puke. Honey, not everyone that disagrees with you is a bigot. Apparently Tumblr didn't teach that life lesson. BTW still waiting on why you need 'official' endorsement of your fanfiction. I'm having trouble following the substance here through this fog of nastiness. What's this argument actually about? What's your position on the romances?
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Post by Furisco on Apr 5, 2017 19:05:35 GMT
#MakeJaalAsexual #EatShitHumans
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 5, 2017 19:07:11 GMT
I'm reasonably sure that part of Sera's romance was voiced by a male inquisitor. Someone dug up the audio files and made a straight Sera mod. I have screens of lesbians going fucking balistic over it. Sera is the worst character in the history of BioWare (as IMO they realized during production, considering I have never seen a BW game with that many options to kick someone out of your party) but I would love to see those! Link, please. It's not easy to reconcile Sera's dialogue with a male Inquisitor with her being bisexual. Of course, that could mean that she was written incoherently and Bio cleared the problem up.
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Post by annerogers on Apr 5, 2017 19:15:05 GMT
Honey, not everyone that disagrees with you is a bigot. Apparently Tumblr didn't teach that life lesson. BTW still waiting on why you need 'official' endorsement of your fanfiction. I'm having trouble following the substance here through this fog of nastiness. What's this argument actually about? What's your position on the romances? Romances detract from the game. They have become a millstone around Bioware's neck and no decision they make will satisfy the demands. They should have learned from Baldur's Gate and given up on the idea- it's as tired as the 'Chosen One' plot they rehash every game.
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Apr 5, 2017 19:18:24 GMT
Would support making Jaal bi if it's feasible from a resource perspective because realistically, I know the most likely way to make up for this is to make some exclusively gay alien in some future DLC/installment. Which just means straight women (myself) would get screwed out of an alien romance because "you already have Thane, Garrus, & Jaal and you shouldn't get greedy." Would rather share Jaal now then get relegated to nothing but humans and asari later.
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Post by Cirvante on Apr 5, 2017 19:19:23 GMT
I'm reasonably sure that part of Sera's romance was voiced by a male inquisitor. Someone dug up the audio files and made a straight Sera mod. I have screens of lesbians going fucking balistic over it. Sera is the worst character in the history of BioWare (as IMO they realized during production, considering I have never seen a BW game with that many options to kick someone out of your party) but I would love to see those! I'm in Dresden at the moment, but when I get home tomorrow I'll post them.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 5, 2017 19:21:45 GMT
Sera is the worst character in the history of BioWare (as IMO they realized during production, considering I have never seen a BW game with that many options to kick someone out of your party) but I would love to see those! Link, please. It's not easy to reconcile Sera's dialogue with a male Inquisitor with her being bisexual. Of course, that could mean that she was written incoherently and Bio cleared the problem up. Or... the most likely explanation is that datamining brings up a ton of stuff that was never meant to be in the game, but that they recorded/made some assets for very early on because that's when they were coding some stuff. There's tons of out of left field material that exists in the data and is not meant to be part of the game's story. It became a thing when files were datamined and Jaal was revealed to be for both Scott and Sara. But then the day before release, it was revealed through prima guide that Jaal is indeed just straight, and gay men only have one crew romance (who has a CC face, has little to no plot relevancy, a romance that is quite problematic to some and focuses a bit too much on his sexuality, has a fade to black sex scene, has the least amount of content etc etc etc) and one fling (who has a badly animated variant of the romance culmination scene for men) for romance options, while everyone else at least two squadmates and an alien romance. Oh, you datamined it? Well, I can't blame you there. It's not like we have a long history of this. It's not like all the way back in ME1 datamining revealed that both Kaidan and Ashley were available for both Shepard genders. If that were the case, we'd know that BioWare sometimes leaves their options open codewise while they're still designing a character. Oh wait! That's the exact scenario! Tell me, how's Mordin holding up that biotic bubble in the suicide mission? I hope you settled his feud with Grunt over the genophage. Leviathan still a rogue Reaper? No? Space Morrigon still go bonkers and hijack the Citadel?Here's the truth of the matter: if you made assumptions based off datamining, that is your fault and your fault alone. No one told you to go screwing around in the game's files. No one made you any promises about any characters being romancable by anyone. You jumped to bad conclusions despite a known precedent for the type of information you're accessing being unreliable. I cannot possibly stress it enough: any and all disappoint is on you.
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Post by Rifneno on Apr 5, 2017 19:50:34 GMT
[ It's part of the gameplay whether you like it or not And whether you like it or not, it's not an actual romance. It's a fling. Nothing more. Compare this drivel to, say, Triss in Witcher. That's an actual love story. The sex scenes are there, but they aren't the focus. Hell, in the 2nd game you find out Triss isn't a natural redhead before fighting your first enemy. The focus is instead on building a life together. The buildup isn't to a sex scene where someone showers in their underwear, it's to someone overcoming their issues and finally, after years, saying a true and meaningful "I love you" for the first time. The talk before the final mission isn't about who brought the condoms, it's about how they're going to live together in their new home. That's a love story. If that's what BioWare was making, I'd actually have some sympathy for this ridiculous cause. But no one is asking for a meaningful romance, they're asking for a very poorly done sex scene and trying to sugar coat it as something more. That was true of ME1, but since ME2 if a companion is romanceable for your character and you don't do their romance, you miss out on a huge amount of basically 'friendship' conversation. Once they get their way and make Jaal bi, there will be probably two non romance conversations with him total. Yes, a huge amount! Like in ME2, when Garrus... umm... nevermind. Seriously, I think "Wanna have sex?" "Sure." is the only extra dialogue. Yes, I can totally see what you guys are fighting for! Sera is the worst character in the history of BioWare (as IMO they realized during production, considering I have never seen a BW game with that many options to kick someone out of your party) but I would love to see those! Link, please. It's not easy to reconcile Sera's dialogue with a male Inquisitor with her being bisexual. Of course, that could mean that she was written incoherently and Bio cleared the problem up. No, it doesn't mean that at all. What it means, like I said earlier, is that BW likes to leave their options open codewise before they've refined a character. A lot of the coding is clearly done before they've finished deciding who a character is. Look at Mordin. He has fully voiced content for being able to successfully hold the biotic bubble on the suicide mission. But he's not even a biotic! If it was cut for time then he'd at least be a biotic. This means that they put the codework in for various possibilities they were considering before deciding what to go with in the end product. If anyone STUPIDLY assumed that Jaal's romance was cut for time simply because there's datamined framework then they need to git gud with their logical deduction skills.
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Post by Furisco on Apr 5, 2017 19:57:30 GMT
Shhhhhhhhhhh. Don't use logic bigot.
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Bann Duncan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 5, 2017 20:02:18 GMT
If anyone STUPIDLY assumed that Jaal's romance was cut for time simply because there's datamined framework then they need to git gud with their logical deduction skills. (Trimmed out most of the post just because it was quite long.) Just to clarify, I'm agreeing with you; that's the context in which I quoted you.
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Post by wolfsite on Apr 5, 2017 20:34:50 GMT
Well during ME3 we had people demanding Kaiden be retconned all the way to ME1 to be Gay only. That move felt so forced and shoehorned. Kaidan should have been bi from the beginning of the trilogy. The fact that it was done only in the 3rd installment of the trilogy made absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm finishing the Voeld story-arc at the moment (or at least I think I am) and seeing how Jaal's story has been fleshed out, BW has made him a perfect choice as a partner for Ryder. And even though I'm a straight female and I have Jaal romancing my Sara, I really feel for the gay gamers who have been deprived of a romance between Scott and Jaal because I'm sure it could be a very beautiful thing. If BW makes Jaal bi at some point, I'm definitely going to start a new Scott playthrough just to romance him - after Vetra though because she's one sexy female Turian and I simply can't resist her! Once you go Turian you never go back.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 5, 2017 20:50:15 GMT
My question though is it feasible for BioWare to finish the romance?
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Post by smilesja on Apr 5, 2017 20:55:27 GMT
[ It's part of the gameplay whether you like it or not And whether you like it or not, it's not an actual romance. It's a fling. Nothing more. Compare this drivel to, say, Triss in Witcher. That's an actual love story. The sex scenes are there, but they aren't the focus. Hell, in the 2nd game you find out Triss isn't a natural redhead before fighting your first enemy. The focus is instead on building a life together. The buildup isn't to a sex scene where someone showers in their underwear, it's to someone overcoming their issues and finally, after years, saying a true and meaningful "I love you" for the first time. The talk before the final mission isn't about who brought the condoms, it's about how they're going to live together in their new home. That's a love story. If that's what BioWare was making, I'd actually have some sympathy for this ridiculous cause. But no one is asking for a meaningful romance, they're asking for a very poorly done sex scene and trying to sugar coat it as something more. That was true of ME1, but since ME2 if a companion is romanceable for your character and you don't do their romance, you miss out on a huge amount of basically 'friendship' conversation. Once they get their way and make Jaal bi, there will be probably two non romance conversations with him total. Yes, a huge amount! Like in ME2, when Garrus... umm... nevermind. Seriously, I think "Wanna have sex?" "Sure." is the only extra dialogue. Yes, I can totally see what you guys are fighting for! Link, please. It's not easy to reconcile Sera's dialogue with a male Inquisitor with her being bisexual. Of course, that could mean that she was written incoherently and Bio cleared the problem up. No, it doesn't mean that at all. What it means, like I said earlier, is that BW likes to leave their options open codewise before they've refined a character. A lot of the coding is clearly done before they've finished deciding who a character is. Look at Mordin. He has fully voiced content for being able to successfully hold the biotic bubble on the suicide mission. But he's not even a biotic! If it was cut for time then he'd at least be a biotic. This means that they put the codework in for various possibilities they were considering before deciding what to go with in the end product. If anyone STUPIDLY assumed that Jaal's romance was cut for time simply because there's datamined framework then they need to git gud with their logical deduction skills. [ I'm pretty sure me: a will have the same build up especially if you remain faithful that being said Triss was forced on you by the writers
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