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Post by Catilina on Jul 27, 2019 8:22:54 GMT
I think, you are quieter than usual. Might be the heat though. Did you had it as warm in Hungary as we her in Germany? We scratched the 40 degree C mark in some regions Not that warm (~30-35 °C) – but I have works and things and I'm tired a bit.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 26, 2019 23:51:23 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Jul 26, 2019 11:29:13 GMT
I'm not sure how much Amell knows about their past, or even that their family was nobility from the Free Marches however it's implied several times the Circles at least keep some records about who they have in the Tower (name, birth date...date they came to the Circle etc.) so I head canon that whenever I play the Amell origin, that after they become a Warden and end the Blight they return to the Circle and look through those records (maybe even during Broken Circle when no one is around) in those records they find out about their mother Revka and try and find her, depending on how depressive I want that story to be they either find nothing or a grave (finding out she died some years back) or when I want a happy ending for Amell I head canon they actually do find Revka and reunite with her after which they write and visit from time to time it's also said in dialogue by Leandra that Revka had several children, all where eventually found to possess magic and taken to Circle across Thedas I had a head canon for one of my Amells at one point that she had four siblings, one who fled the Circle and became an apostate, another was a Chantry loyalist and was in the Circle of Ansburg until the events of Inquisition where they died during the Mage rebellion, the third was made tranquil and the fourth was still alive and had ironically also been recruited by the Grey Wardens although in a different country (Antiva I belief...since my head canon at the time was that my Amell was half Antivan) The Warden one and the apostate one eventually meet and try to find their tranquil sibling and the Hero (and after some time they reunite with their mother) I am making plans to recreate my Amell with this head canon set up, though instead of female I think I'll make a male one Circle Mage aside from Human Noble and Dalish Elf are my favorite Origins I think s/he's able to hear some rumours. Unreliable, obscure rumours, ofc – complemented with his/her imagination...
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Post by Catilina on Jul 26, 2019 10:57:11 GMT
I don't think, any document exists, what Warden Amell knows about Revka Amell and the siblings's fate. Here's the wiki about it: Amell familyRevka AmellHeadcanon: My Aerland Amell heard rumours about his mother "went crazy" and disappeared after they arrested him, and later his father also disappeared with his children – who were all mages. He just hopes, they reunited somewhere. He makes bitter jokes about, that in Tevinter his family would give the greatest Archons and Divines to the Imperium... Here? Just "cursed" pariahs. I love the Circle Mage Origin (both, but you're right about that Amell is special because of Hawke), I think it's underestimated. My favourite one. This is the most deppressive origin – to me. This is about how people being able to accept… to enjoy their captivity. The Circle is an awful place. Paranoid and unhealthy, but some mages see it as home. And accept, in fact to agree with the captivity. The Chantry, the oppressor. Just see Keili in the Circle’s Chantry.
And just see, how easy to accept First Enchanter Irving as a father figure – and the place as a haven. But this is an awful place, and Irving a wrong father figure, who sacrifices his apprentice. And from this ‘haven’ only the Taint able to save Amell/Surana.
Be a ‘good’ mage… we’ll kill you, but only for your sake! Be grateful! And there is an option, that Surana/Amell is grateful to Irving and the Circle – after the Circle would kill them, even if they were loyal…! An option to understand and respect Greagoir and Irving and blame Jowan. ONLY Jowan…
This always makes me think about it. People can easily accept that the deprivation of freedom is for their sake… and the 'good behaviour and the acceptance is the best way (Wynne). Most of them blame the victim and understands agree with the oppressor. And this scare me.
The Circle Mage origin is very touching and real. About Ser Pounce a-lot: I don't think our Warden Commander takes Anders' cat away – but we know, our Warden Commender on his/her way. I think, another one did it, someone who replaced him/her there temporarily. (And we also know, Anders has another reason to leave as well.)
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Post by Catilina on Jul 25, 2019 21:52:19 GMT
I will pass on the comments to him. He is very friendly and loves cuddles. He's lovely!
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Post by Catilina on Jul 25, 2019 21:44:23 GMT
Sorry, Obsidian Garrus!
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Post by Catilina on Jul 24, 2019 14:56:05 GMT
About Anders: Sadly no. Whatever the Warden-Commander decided, it doesn't matter. Anders' dialogue doesn't change. He was a Warden in Amarantine, he met and befriended with Justice here, and after they merged, he left the Wardens, and he told, because of the current Warden-Commander and Ser Pounce a-lot. Even if the Warden Commander gave him to the Templars, and didn't recruit Justice.
With Nathaniel, Anders have a funny conversation, if the Warden-Commander go to Amarantine, doesn't strengthen the Vigil's Keep, and Anders left for defend the Keep.
Nobody mentions the Orlesian Warden-Commander in the Inquisition, I suppose (I don't have World-state with this decision, so, I'm not sure).
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Post by Catilina on Jul 24, 2019 13:55:46 GMT
I picked the Chevaliers. All the others are religious or evil, or drink poison. Reading 'The Masked Empire' gave me a greater appreciation for the Chevaliers. They put honour above everything else, even to their own detriment, but they're sill allowed to have something of a normal life. They are just as dirty, brute and corrupt like the Templar Order (and Orlesian!).
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Post by Catilina on Jul 23, 2019 16:13:21 GMT
I'm not a fan of factions in general, be it games or real life, I want to do my own stuff without having to follow orders from, and bowing my back to those who see themselves as superiors. That's such an unattractive concept to me. I want to be left alone and do my own stuff - so I guess apostates would be my faction, the non-faction-faction. Being an apostate implies you want to be a mage. But for most apostates that are not part of a Dalish Clan or a Rivaini/Avaar/Chasind tribe, dragon cult, etc. life can easily be more of a hassle than being a mage is worth. Exile from most population centers, templar-hunts, angry mobs, etc. And I don't see myself wanting to live my life as a survivalist. Odds are you would be forced to forfeit magical practice in order to live a quiet life in some town but where's the fun in that? So I suggest the Mages' Collective of Ferelden. They more or less let thier own do whatever they want so long as it doesn't attract unwanted attention, and there is no indication that they follow orders from a supreme leader or anything. Merely a cabal of like-minded mages who want to study on thier own terms and make a profit. I don't think, he spoke about the Chantry's term to the "free mages", rather "a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle" But perhaps, I'm wrong, English isn't my first language.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 23, 2019 13:39:49 GMT
omg...just found this why do I think that makes so much sense? Or perhaps Justice's presence slows down the Calling or eliminate that slowly... – or the Taint ruins Justice as well. This isn't a head-canon, this is a conception: Gaider was vague about this two possibility.(Of course I prefer the possibility, that Justice's presence eliminates the Taint effects with time)
And then there is the mortal world itself... just think about it: as Isabela also said, justice is an idea, in the Fade this is clear, but in the mortal world everything is more complicated. When Justice woke up in Kristoff's body he was not that pure Justice anymore. He felt Kristof's memories about his life, but those only were dead memories... But he heard Anders' stories about the Circle, and later he experienced his every memory and emotion, at first-hand, as his own. Anders was always a passionate man, and Justice's feelings toward this injustice accelerated Anders' (and Justice's own!) emotions... this is absolutely mutual between them. And never forget: Justice first goal was when he woke up in Kristof's body: to take revenge on the Darkspawn for Kristoff (he told it to the Warden when they speaks first about his future fate in the mortal world).
It's corruption? Perhaps, but I think, he's still Spirit, and nothing is easy about the Siprits. Just remember to Cole, who, as he said about himself, were demon once...
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Post by Catilina on Jul 23, 2019 13:00:23 GMT
I don't have a huge problem with Keili. I've seen young women in far worse distress over far less pressing things than the fact that they could personally end the world, and if you know you're somehow dangerous then reflective prayer and meditation isn't a bad idea by any means. Whining and moaning about it though, annoying everyone around you, isn't a constructive way of compensating for it. She should be, and hopefully is, encouraged to help younger mages learn control and guide them to understand their power and the responsibility it brings, rather than bemoaning her own fate. But again, she's still pretty young and can't really be expected to have figured her shit out yet. I certainly wouldn't want to be defined by the hysterical crap that came out of my mouth at that age. ...who's Keili?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 22, 2019 23:40:32 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Jul 22, 2019 22:50:14 GMT
College of Magi – before the Inquisition: Mage Underground Fog Warriors
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2019 23:15:39 GMT
Oh, the old "they have food, they have to be grateful" argument! Then the slavery also a very good system, because the slaves get food, not mentioned, there are luxury slaves, and if we see the Alienages, those slaves are fortunate! Let's glorify or at least accept the slavery! Your arguments are just hypocrite and most of them don't have any sense. Have you ever starved? As in, gone weeks without protein feeling your muscles eating themselves to keep you alive and literally not being able to go two seconds without thinking about food? Being tempted to do unspeakable things every day just in order to be able to feel full again for a single instant? Having to spend every moment you can sleeping, both to conserve energy and to escape the pain in you belly for a few blissful hours? If you haven't, then with all due respect, you have no fucking idea what it means to have your needs seen to and taken care of under circumstances where you'd otherwise have to fight tooth and nail for it, and your dismissal of any circumstance where you have to trade some freedoms for that as slavery is monstrously idiotic. I'm done responding to you at all. Deciphering your atrocious grammar just to hear insultingly mindless nonsense like this is beyond a waste of time. Thank you for the answer, that was exactly what I expected from you.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2019 22:29:50 GMT
Yup. Which is exactly why I agree that the pre-Inquisition Templar policies were somewhat overkill and ill-thought-out to the point of being counterproductive, and needed to be carefully revised.
But relinquishing control of mages' movements and activities would exactly be to allow them enough freedom to be able to engineer those unusual circumstances which let them mess with the fabric of reality, and that simply can't be risked. Even ignoring that undisciplined mages are still perfectly capable of causing enormous local disasters through carelessness or malice alone, like Connor at Redcliffe or the Baroness at Blackmarsh.
Nobody is forgetting that destructive mages are the exception. What I keep saying is that those destructive exceptions have historically been destructive enough to make the civil rights of the rest of them meaningless in comparison. Those mages who would never have caused harm are sacrificing their freedom to protect the world from those of them who would, because doing that is the most important thing in the world, bar none.
If there was a way to make them feel better rewarded, more comfortable and appreciated for performing that duty then that would obviously be a good idea.
But let's also not forget that this is a medievalesque world beyond the circle towers. Most children die of disease before adolescence. The average person sleeps on straw, not feathers, and almost nobody has the freedom to do what they want with their lives, especially not women. The people who survive do so by working their asses off all day. Cabbage soup is the finest meal a lot of people taste in their entire lives, and 99% never travel beyond five miles of where they're born.
Daily life in the circles pre-DA2, excepting the lack of fresh air and exercise, is in fact mostly equivalent to that of the upper middle-class, which is better than most of the human population could ever hope for. And, assuming they've earned enough trust as responsible and disciplined individuals, they do have the potential of traveling outside the towers and serving the nobility.
It's not ideal, and I can definitely understand young mages going stir-crazy with excess energy, needing to rebel against the system. Especially the guys. But it is also most certainly not Auschwitz. Oh, the old "they have food, they have to be grateful" argument! Then the slavery also a very good system, because the slaves get food, not mentioned, there are luxury slaves, and if we see the Alienages, those slaves are fortunate! Let's glorify or at least accept the slavery! Your arguments are just hypocrite and most of them don't have any sense. Let just see this one: How they would protect the world with their sacrificing if they would never cause any harm, from the other ones, who would? Especially if they are locked up in a prison? Seems nonsense to me... Big fat bullshit. Their "sacrifice" can't help. (Bethany's sacrifice kept Kirkwall safe, isn't?) And again: This isn't a medieval world. And the mages would be able to cure people – if they would let them... To lock them, is just waste, and not safe.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 21, 2019 18:51:18 GMT
I believe the current state of the voting is: Arcadia 2 Catilina 1 Fylimar 1 Still to vote: Basia, Catilina, Dragon, Heimdall, OG I voted already for that filthy Space, who else?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2019 19:38:17 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2019 18:16:07 GMT
The City Guard don't have radios either to quickly respond to burglaries, murders or crimes in a city either? Doesn't mean they should start rounding up anyone who might commit a crime up under the guise of protection and preventing crimes before they happen. To suggest that locking up potential criminals is necessary to ensure safety, one might as well turn the whole of Kirkwall or Denerim into giant prisons and be done with it, given how much rampant crime takes place within those cities. You're still ignoring the scale difference. What happens if a guard fails to make it to a crime scene? A house gets burglarized, a fight gets out of hand and somebody's nose or arm gets broken, or, worst case scenario, one or two people get killed or traumatized. Really unfortunate, but still not realistically the end of the world. What would happen if a Templar was a few hours late to a magical crime or disaster? Anything could happen. Whole families or towns could be bled to death for magical fuel, turned into thralls and made to defend the perpetrator's innocence or worse. Worst case scenario, the world literally could end thanks to some cockamania ritual performed by nutcases who didn't know what they were dealing with, and it wouldn't even be the first or second time. Even ignoring the obvious fact that there are many times more town guards than there are Templars, who take far longer and far more resources to train and equip. I'm not suggesting to lock up potential criminals, I'm suggesting to lock up potential world destroyers. There's a difference. And it's relatively painless, because they're a tiny fraction of a percentage of people everywhere. For the world at large, seeing them go in exchange for not being blown up, turned inside out or conquered by demons is a steal. Still, you have to prove the intention to lock them up. Need evidence, not just a thought, they're able to it. Not mentioned, that apart from the old age and disease the most frequent cause of death is the traffic accident. Still, we don't ban the means of transport... So: the danger waits for us in every little corner. And nobody prevents it! Yes we do. If you haven't noticed, your legal ability to sit in a car and start the engine is the most strictly controlled and administered thing you will ever have. In some places, it's more prohibited than access to firearms is. And abusing it is the surest way to penalty or jail that isn't outright violence. And your car doesn't even have the potential to destroy nations or end civilization, the way magic does! Oh, and outlawing cars would completely ground modern society to a halt. Outlawing magic, at the very worst, compromises the workaday Thedasian's access to advanced healthcare. A loss, certainly, and a reason to try to figure out how to do things efficiently to try to make some of that available again. But not worth endangering the world over. Again, if we put the average number of people killed by a single mage in Thedas up against the number of traffic deaths in history, the former would still come out on top because mages have ended worlds, repeatedly. The fact that ordinary life isn't entirely safe isn't a reason not to do something about a gun pointed at your head. That you would suggest such a thing just shows how warped and detached from reality your feelings about this whole issue are, which is the reason I've mostly stopped responding to your comments on the matter. And your view is just paranoid and dangerous. No logic included, only fear: the paranoia prevents people from thinking. ("World-destroyer" Rofl. Because the Circle was able to lock a world-destroyer... eh what a nonsense!)
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2019 10:48:20 GMT
The City Guard don't have radios either to quickly respond to burglaries, murders or crimes in a city either? Doesn't mean they should start rounding up anyone who might commit a crime up under the guise of protection and preventing crimes before they happen.
To suggest that locking up potential criminals is necessary to ensure safety, one might as well turn the whole of Kirkwall or Denerim into giant prisons and be done with it, given how much rampant crime takes place within those cities. What about police arresting terrorists before they crash that plane / bomb that building / drive into that crowd? There's a difference in quality and quantity between something so devastating and, say, some burglar or thug with a broken bottle. Still, you have to prove the intention to lock them up. Need evidence, not just a thought, they're able to it. Not mentioned, that apart from the old age and disease the most frequent cause of death is the traffic accident. Still, we don't ban the means of transport... So: the danger waits for us in every little corner. And nobody prevents it!
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2019 9:17:29 GMT
This is far not "medieval settings" – this is mixed. It sure isn't "mixed" enough for Templars to have radio communication, which means they can't respond anywhere near quickly or effectively enough to magical crimes or disasters unless the mages are all gathered in one spot so everyone can be supervised at once. Which was my point. My point was: with mages (magic) is this is also possible. Don't need to gather them in one place. I think, the nobles and the Chantry (Exalted Marches) caused more death like the mages after the first Blight happened. If you think, that's the solution, then gather everyone in one place, because everyone can commit crimes. But who will police them? That paranoia is fascinating!
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Post by Catilina on Jul 18, 2019 23:38:37 GMT
Buckeldemon Well, in general I prefer the way the Hamburg dub of MET, Andromeda and Origins. "Zirkel der Maejei" was a terrible Denglish mess. Orlais...most of the characters tend to not pronounce the s at the end, so they'd pronounce it Or-lay...at least that's how I pronounce it Orlais...most of the characters tend to not pronounce the s at the end, so they'd pronounce it Or-lay...at least that's how I pronounce it I thought "Or-lé" would be correct. This way it is pronounced on the whole in DA. even in the Berlin dubs. @anders: Well defficult in the way, that I have no possibilities to get Rivalry Points from him. xD In Awakening it was no Problem. Kill the blood mages of Amaranthine and Anders gives disapproval. In DA2, kill Blood mages and Hawke earns Friendship. Not really, not always. He against the blood magic, but he would kill blood mages only if they attack. Remember the Starkhaven apostates in the cave. He still wants to free them, even if knows, their leader was clearly a blood mage, and probably all of them knows it/practices it. Why do you want to gain rivalry from him?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 18, 2019 21:59:43 GMT
As Catilina pointed out, they were currently at war.
The Rebels seeking asylum in Redcliffe were living under the threat of being attacked by the Templars at any moment, so the Rebellion's survival was more of a priority than dealing with the apostates causing trouble in the Hinterlands. Even if the Rebels had the manpower - which they didn't - they wouldn't have wanted to risk sending more lives into a meatgrinder. It was better to let the Templars deal with the apostates, rather than risk losing Rebel lives to Templar ambushes, while trying to bring the apostates to justice.
Having Mages and Templars work together to police magic isn't all that much of a far-fetched concept, it seems to have worked for the original Inquisition 900 years ago?
I seem to recall that Cullen also mentions something akin to that in one of his dialogues...or was it Cassandra? I can't really remember
I also believe that the only way for people to stop harping on the 'all mages are evil' stuff is if they see mages as an everyday thing and not something scary to frighten children with
take Hawke's family as an example, there were two mages (three if Hawke is one as well) in the family but no one saw that as odd or dangerous, they only one who saw the danger were those outside of the family (and some of the members within). So the Hawke family acted accordingly by hiding their talents and not drawing attention to themselves Carver even says this during one of his dialogues, that even if he wanted to excel at something he couldn't because it'd draw attention to his father and sibling(s) who would've been in danger of being taken from him Bethany just wanted to be 'normal' like Carver...because she perceived her magic as being something bad because the outside world had told her that she was bad for being a mage it's only when she's (been) inside the Circle that she sees what her family had to give up to keep her safe
--
As to the original topic of this thread...I've finished the game as both mages and non mages, and I like playing as both (I've yet to play as warrior but I might get around to it at some point) the only thing that saddens me is that the story doesn't exactly address Hawke being a mage aside from a few very select situations granted it's Varric telling the story and he might leave out details here and there, but often it feels as if DA2 was made for a non-mage perspective even though 'canon' Hawke is supposed to be a mage (and a blood mage at that if you take the Destiny trailer as the Bioware canon) About Bethany: she wanted to be normal, not because she thought, her magic is something bad –at least seems she very comfortable with her magic–, he just wants a normal life, family etc, and thinks, she's a burden on her family, and on everyone whom she befriends – a danger... Not because of her magic, but because the Templars, who hunt for her kind, and who lives with her, will be hunted like her. "Other people always took the risks, to keep me free." (Bethany to Anders) While I was okay with Hawke (ofc needed some imagination to fill the black holes of the story), but absolutely seems, they rushed the game, sadly.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 18, 2019 21:32:50 GMT
Templars in the traditional chantry sense are not encouraged to understand magic more than needed to fight it (and maybe not even that), and are basically trained to be full of religious bias. Do you want to be judged/policed by a zealot/believer who hates you because of that special quirk, because his religion told him so?
There is also nobody policing them Order's rather unchecked power abuse. The Seekers? They are apparently meant to dispose of threats for the Chantry's supremecy in the south, not investigate Templars overstepping their (already pretty generous) boundaries. They did not complain about Meredith ruling over Kirkwall, they just did not want their precious order disturbed. The analogy is a bit lacking in my view. Of course nobody with basic survial instincts would help to exterminate their own kind or even make life worse for it. The fact that certain circle mages (like Keili) lack this instinct shows how brainwashed they are. Again I'd point out that this "quirk" is something people like you have repeatedly used to successfully enslave and semi-successfully destroy the world as a matter of fact, and that guy in the armor is the only thing aside from your own conscience keeping you from doing the exact same thing if you felt like it. That isn't the same as "doing something because your religion tells you to" by a long-shot. What you're saying is a huge false equivalency to real-life superstition which, while understandable, isn't based on actual witch or werewolf attacks. That magic needs to be feared and guarded is a conclusion based on historical fact in Thedas, not superstition. And again, nobody is saying that the Templar order couldn't stand for a restructuring and some house-cleaning. It absolutely can. It'd have to be done carefully and methodically though, and there's nobody except the Chantry to do it. Simply letting mages take over the world again because Templars are flawed people and don't all fulfill their duties with professionalism isn't a sensible solution to anything. This is still a medieval setting, and getting armies of men to all behave with perfect propriety isn't easy at the best of times. I don't have a huge problem with Keili. I've seen young women in far worse distress over far less pressing things than the fact that they could personally end the world, and if you know you're somehow dangerous then reflective prayer and meditation isn't a bad idea by any means. Whining and moaning about it though, annoying everyone around you, isn't a constructive way of compensating for it. She should be, and hopefully is, encouraged to help younger mages learn control and guide them to understand their power and the responsibility it brings, rather than bemoaning her own fate. But again, she's still pretty young and can't really be expected to have figured her shit out yet. I certainly wouldn't want to be defined by the hysterical crap that came out of my mouth at that age. This is far not "medieval settings" – this is mixed. The Templar Order can't be repaired, and don't have to be. Absolutely failed everything about it, just like with the Southern-Circles. The whole system is crap. No matter, that you saw young women in worse distress, of course, there are tortured people, lobotomized people, even in the Circle, but Keili is still shocking, and any system that makes people like her. She's just young, she will get over it? Oh, the Circle just strengthened her, isn't? This view is more than cynical. Most of the people be never able to get over such trauma without professional help (not a Chantry Mother or a Templar not even some loyalist mage). She'll be able to teach children, only if she'll be able to forget this sickness and to fight against that bullshit. I don't think she ever will be able to see her magic as a gift, but without it, she shouldn't teach anyone. In this mental state, she can't teach any responsibility, if she starts to teach children, those children will be more unstable and dangerous, than ever were before anyone started to teach them. She perhaps, able to recuperate, but only if she leaves that poisonous environment – or meets someone, here who're not that damaged like her, and able to be proud of the gift.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 18, 2019 17:27:44 GMT
So you spoke about the Templars... You can't say, the Templars was/are suitable. We saw it in Orlais, and in Hinterland too, not only the book showed that (and the early games as well). They didn't care anything but their own wounded pride and to hunt people who wanted to be free, and who helped to those people. The Templar Order isn't suitable to police and protect anyone. The only solution is to destroy the Order, and to build another anti-magical force with mages and non-mages together, for the effectiveness and the trust. And because there's no "we, and they", the mages are relatives of non-mages. (I'm sure, some Templars are a mage's son/daughter, who became Chantry-orphan and later a Templar – like Alistair). It's perfect? Not. It just the only one what safe and humane enough.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 18, 2019 15:15:16 GMT
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