Ianamus
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 4, 2017 23:12:18 GMT
Cora and Peebee updated: Cora looks like a potato. The rest are pretty good, though.
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Ianamus
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 4, 2017 14:56:23 GMT
So take out the announcement trailer bit and you are still left with massive indicators pointing to humanity being the special, Mary Sue species again. Whether that is tied to a specific character saying such, or just the fact that it will be humans, and humans alone who are the driving force behind the Andromeda Initiative, the ones who will have an inordinate power and political sway in a supposed joint species effort, or the fact that devs themselves have even said that it will be up to humanity, and our human Pathfinder, to save everyone from the main foe in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Etc. You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. Mass Effect took it to a ridiculous extreme, though. Harbinger giving contrived and sometimes nonsensical reasons why the other species weren't suitable candidates to become a Reaper was really cringe-worthy. With the Turians they couldn't even come up with a pseudo-reason and resorted to Harbinger calling them "primitive", which didn't even make sense.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 3, 2017 19:33:09 GMT
I agree. I think the total comes to like 25K since some are traveling on the Nexus. Some probably will not have survived the trip-relatively few. Some will die in combat most likely, and some have gone rogue so who knows what they'll do. But still. They're going to have to breed like bunnies to actually establish a colony that isn't going to die out in a year. Yes they would need to breed like rabbits and women would not at all be placed in combat roles due to risk of death in the battlefield. But this is bioware and female representation is 50/50 for combat roles even though it shouldn't for this scenario since they should be breeders. You honestly think they have the technology to travel to a different galaxy but don't have the technology to create artificial wombs? We aren't that far from achieving it in real life.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 2, 2017 19:34:05 GMT
I don't want to get too excited, and I managed to avoid Andromeda news and discussion for years now, but I can feel myself starting to get sucked into the hype. I'm still cynical and haven't pre-ordered yet, although I'm sure Ill order it eventually. Ironically Mass Effect 3 is the game that made me try desperately to avoid getting hyped about something ever again, and it's something I've lived by ever since, with all titles.
It's been five years now, though (Which is really scary, as that's almost a quarter of my life), so I think it's fair to at least get some excitement for an old favorite coming back.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 1, 2017 18:45:21 GMT
And, YES, to s/s aliens. Yeah, we have the Asari. But we've seen very few examples of other LGBT aliens. There's Gavorn, but it's pretty hidden away. It's only in a DLC AND it's on a video that you have to return to see and cycle through others AND it's implied. But it's still there. He's in a bedroom, sitting on a bed, being approached by a human male. I'm willing to take that as evidence that he's not only into males, but also into humans, which is kind of cool. And, of course, there's Nyreen. But outside of Turians, we don't really have any evidence of other species. I'm sure it exists, so let's see one or two in ME: A. I maintain that I'd love to see a gay (not bisexual -- GAY) Krogan. Someone like Grunt. I think it would be awesome. And, I agree that a male Quarian would be pretty awesome too. Like a Reegar-esque guy. I wish I could have seen Nyreen. I hear a lot about her but I completely dropped Mass Effect after seeing the original ending, and didn't start getting back into it until the recent Andromeda news. I have strong hopes for Vetra, though. A gay Krogan would be really cool. Especially if they weren't an LI, but were still a prominent character. Though I'm sure several people would want them to be an LI, and I'd have nothing against it. I'd love a Reegar-esque character, or at least someone a bit grittier than what we've had so far. Though I have doubts about any Quarians being in, I'm still hopeful. I think the reason they resort to Turians for most of the non-asari queer characters is because Salarians are basically asexual and most of the other species aren't human enough for many to find attractive. That's the problem with making the fanservice species female only!
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 1, 2017 18:02:29 GMT
I'm certain it was the case with Anders Romance, at the very least. It doesn't matter what the devs are primarily, all that really matters in these individual cases is who the writer of that particular character was, and we know Anders was written by a woman in Dragon Age 2. I don't want to single her out or anything, but I always questioned her decision to hide Anders and Karls relationship (or potentially, have it not exist at all) if the player is playing as a female Hawke. While the male devs probably also consciously or subconsciously believe that male characters who express interest in other men are less desirable to female players, female devs are clearly not immune to this either. As shown above, the most blatant example of this came from a female dev. That's a fair point. I knew that Anders' writer in DA2 was a woman, but I had never heard her rationale for why they hid Karl from a LadyHawke. If that's really the case, that's pretty silly. And I take your word for it. Either way, it does come down to these societal stereotypes that men who are into other men are "less desirable" and "less manly". And that's what I think is at the root of this phenomenon with the bisexual male LI's in these games. Whether they mean to or not, the devs perpetuate this by making sure that any bisexual guy goes out of his way to make his clear attraction to women known and, sometimes, even goes further by doing the whole, "I'm not normally into guys....." thing. It's certainly not the end of the world, but it's irritating to say the least. I had high hopes for Bull since they really sold him as being into "anyone who he feels won't break". But that mostly ended up with him going on and on and on about redheads and barmaids. I was kind of hoping to hear a few "Well that guy was hot...." stuff from him. Maybe it will happen in ME: A. But I'm honestly not holding my breath on that since this particular franchise doesn't have the best track record when it comes to m/m romances. But I'm stupidly optimistic sometimes. I believe that they initially claimed the LI's sexualities were up for player interpretation and flexible, so if playing as a female Hawke Anders could be straight, and if playing as a male Hawke he could be gay, or something along those lines. But after people told them about bisexual erasure they backtracked and said Anders only hid the relationship because he didn't feel it was appropriate to mention it to a female Hawke. Don't take my word completely, this is just what I gathered from the old BSN and developer quotes back there. I'm fairly confident it's accurate, though. I agree that the stereotype is annoying. Honestly Fenris and Merrill are my favourite bi LI's, despite the ambiguity, because neither feel the need to validate their sexuality by mentioning they find both genders attractive repeatedly. The only time you get any indication of what Fenris likes is when he's in a relationship with you or Isabela, which I appreciated. I'm not sure how I want them to handle it going forward. I don't want bi LI's to always prefer women, but I'm not sure that having one who mostly talks about men would be better. I suppose I just want a character where whatever they say or don't say about themselves feels natural, not like everything they say about their sexuality is for the players benefit. I'm also quite optimistic about ME:A. While the series doesn't have the best track record with m/m romances I'd say making Garrus a romance option was far more brave, and shows a willingness to go even further than the DA team. Im also fairly convinced that our female Turian squamate will have a romance arc, which is something I was hoping for, and their statement about creating male and female characters of all aliens was promising. I also really like what we've heard about ME:A's relationship system in general, it looks like they are working on improving the issues I had with previous ME games. But overall, in Mass Effect I'm more interested in them exploring the species angle than the gender angle. Like having an LI who's really into humans as a species and doesn't care about human gender. Same gender alien LI's who aren't Asari are something I really want to see in general, actually. Give me my male Quarian already bioware!!!. But the only Bioware game that gave me a male LI I liked more than the female ones was Fenris in DA2, so male LI's in these games don't have the best track record with me in general.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 1, 2017 17:29:29 GMT
I don't think it's because "two guys are gross", or even primarily about male players. I think it's mostly like that to allow female players to romance their dudes without having to worry that they might be more attracted to guys than them. I mean, look at Anders. Your average straight male player who plays male Hawke still sees Anders male lover and has him flirt with them, it's only those playing a female protagonist who never have to see this and get the illusion that he isn't interested in men at all. Nor do they with Fenris, who doesn't really express interest in anyone outside of the player or Isabela. Kaidan was clearly designed to be a love interest for female players first and foremost, given that he isn't even available for men until the final game. To me this looks like "Men are happy to date women who are bi, but women don't want a man who expresses interest in other men". Wasn't the original excuse for Karl and Anders relationship not being disclosed with a female Hawke that he didn't want to make "Hawke" (or, rather, the average female player behind her) feel awkward? That's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure I'm totally buying it. If it were primarily female devs or if there was some accepted norm about women not being into two guys, then maybe that's the case. But it's mostly male devs and, while there are certainly some ladies who don't like seeing two men together, I'm not sure if it's a commonly accepted "norm" that people would want to build characters around. So it seems as if it's male devs making the decision and deciding that female players would be uncomfortable with a bisexual guy who is into guys. But I don't know of what they would base this on. So it comes back, for me, to the idea that the male devs (whether consciously or subconsciously) identify male characters who are into other male characters as less desirable for female players. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but that's how I see it. I'm certain it was the case with Anders Romance, at the very least. It doesn't matter what the devs are primarily, the programmers and artists have no say in the matter. All that matters in these cases is who the writer of that particular character was, and we know Anders was written by a woman in Dragon Age 2. I don't want to single her out or anything, but I have never agreed with her decision to hide Anders and Karls relationship (or, potentially, have it not exist at all) if the player is playing as a female Hawke. While the male devs probably also consciously or subconsciously believe that male characters who express interest in other men are less desirable to female players, female devs are clearly not immune to this either. As shown above, the most blatant example of this came from a female dev.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 1, 2017 15:54:55 GMT
For me the main issue with Shepard wasn't the autodialogue, it was the lack of consistency of character and amount of autodialogue between games.
ME1 mostly player defined Shepard? I enjoyed it. ME2's slightly less player defined Shepard? I enjoyed it throughout the game. ME3's even more pre-defined Shepard? It annoyed me at a few points, like the opening and ending, but most of the game it worked for me.
What didn't work was how it changed from game to game. Going from a more player-defined Shepard to that opening segment in ME3 was jarring. Like I'd had the control before and it was suddenly taken away from me. And it was clear when new writers had come in, because Shepard would say things that completely contradicted their given motivations in previous games. You had no chance to justify why your Shepard sabotaged the genophage cure in ME2, despite being given ample moral reasons to do so at the time. Suddenly you are a genocidal maniac, no matter why you chose to do it.
I wouldn't mind a ME2 or even ME3 style Ryder (Though would prefer something closer to ME1), as long as they remain consistent in future games, should they return as the protagonist. That is what I'm primarily concerned about.
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N3
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 1, 2017 15:09:44 GMT
That's fair. I figured Kaidan was a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey scale, personally. Mostly into women, but also interested in the occasional man. (On a related note, is it just me or do most Bioware bisexuals state more preference for women? Ex: Leliana, Zevran, Anders, Isabella, Iron Bull, etc. Then again, those are all DA, so maybe that's mostly limited to that series.) Yeah, it's not just you. To date, none of the bisexual guys have demonstrated a preference for men. All of them talk way more about women than men. Sky, Kaidan, & Fenris don't show any interest in men outside of the PC. Anders' only interest in men is Karl, but that's only to the male Hawke. To female Hawke, he never shows any interest in men. Bull will only show interest in another man if both he and Dorian aren't romanced and you've had them in the party long enough to trigger a romance between them. Zevran makes a passing reference to a Prince who has naked when he killed him and, some believe, that he and Talisen were romantically involved, but it's never confirmed in game. The bisexual female characters do show more same sex interest. In addition to Leliana and Isabela, there's also Silk Fox who can end up in a triple relationship with the male PC and Dawn Star. And a bunch of the asari (including Samara and Morinth) show a preference to other women, though I suppose it could be explained in the lore since the species is all female and for millennia they had to reproduce with each other (i.e. other females). Frankly, overall, I believe it falls back on that whole, "Two guys are gross but two girls are hawt" nonsense. I don't think it's because "two guys are gross", or even primarily about male players. I think it's mostly like that to allow female players to romance their dudes without having to worry that they might be more attracted to guys than them. I mean, look at Anders. Your average straight male player who plays male Hawke still sees Anders male lover and has him flirt with them, it's only those playing a female protagonist who never have to see this and get the illusion that he isn't interested in men at all. Nor do they with Fenris, who doesn't really express interest in anyone outside of the player or Isabela. Kaidan was clearly designed to be a love interest for female players first and foremost, given that he isn't even available for men until the final game. To me this looks like "Men are happy to date women who are bi, but women don't want a man who expresses interest in other men". Wasn't the original excuse for Karl and Anders relationship not being disclosed with a female Hawke that he didn't want to make "Hawke" (or, rather, the average female player behind her) feel awkward?
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 1, 2017 14:53:16 GMT
Announcing a sexual/romantic relationship is just as pointless. Many people, like myself, don't care or like those but love the friendships between characters. But the friendship provides nothing to the game, while romances can for example, change the ending of characters, like Sera x Dagna or Dorian x Iron Bull, romances are way more important than a simple friendship, friendship is common, everyone can have friendship, while true love or sex with a giant qunari are things that you only can find once in life. Some times 2. That's not true. Wynne and Shale going off to try to find a way to restore her is an example of a close friendship changing the path of two characters post-game. And Cassandra and Varrics strenuous friendship after DA2 led to their partnership in Inquisition. In fact, I enjoyed their relationship far more than Dorian x Iron Bull, despite it being purely platonic. It also felt like that relationship had a lot more impact on each of them as characters than Bull and Dorians. Realistically close friendships should change character epilogues just as much as romance. It's just not something that has explored much before, particularly in the Mass Effect games.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 29, 2016 3:29:50 GMT
The paragon/renegade system is gone forever so it shouldn't be an issue. Still, I loved the way the relationships could develop throughout the course of the game, be in friendship or romantic. I got a sense by ME3 that we were dealing with people who had a history together, for better or worse. I got that feeling with Garrus and Tali, but everyone else was either completely new or hadn't been around for an entire game, so I felt nothing. With Jack, Mirand, Legion and the others I felt "Here is this person I did know in the past but haven't seen for ages. Oh, and nobody on my squad knows them either since they were only in the first game... in fact, almost none of ME2's characters got to see or interact with each other again in ME3. You get a relationship that grows over multiple games with Joker, Garrus and Tali. Maybe Liara to an extent. I suppose some of them have a few brief lines with each other in each game as well. But if you were a fan of Miranda, Mordin, Grunt, Thane, Jack, Legion or Samara? Enjoy your brief cameo and almost no interaction outside of Shepard in ME3. Your relationship with Jacob actually devolves. I love the idea of a crew that have history and spend multiple games together, but the Mass Effect trilogy did not deliver.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 29, 2016 0:49:13 GMT
I'm surprised that so many people want the same protagonist in subsequent Andromeda games. The Mass Effect trilogy is my go-to example of why that approach doesn't work in games with so much player choice.
I mean, I felt it worked in Mass Effect 1 to 2, but 3 handled it so horribly. It's one of the main reasons I've almost completely forgotten 90% of Mass Effect 3 but still remember all of 1/2. The first two games let you define Shepard, but all of those choices and character development are killed in the third game, which only has two possible Shepard's: Paragon holier-than-thou angel or full Renegade genocidal asshole. Your Shepard was anything in-between? Not anymore they're not! Auto dialogue away until they bear no resemblance to who you were playing in the last game! My ME3 Shepard may as well have been a new character they were so inconsistent to their previous self.
It can work, as shown by Mass Effect 1-2, but only if you keep the amount of player control over the character the same, and keep the majority of the cast. I suppose ME2 removed most of ME1's squad and crew, but the explanations generally made sense and the idea of Shepard dying was a clever way of making it feel real. In 3 it felt like almost everyone who was important in ME2, from your squad to the ship crew, receive basically no screentime. Even as someone who wasn't a huge fan of Miranda I thought her complete lack of relevance in 3 was atrocious. The DLC companions may as well have not existed past ME2 for all the presence they had.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ryder return as the protagonist, but I don't want them to pull an ME3 and make them more pre-defined in a sequel, and the major squad and crew we meet in Andromeda should remain important in all subsequent games where we play Ryder. If you want an entirely new cast don't use the same protagonist. Honestly I think a full trilogy may be too much for it to work. Having just two games with Ryder before moving to a new protagonist might be a happy middle-ground between the ME trilogy and Dragon Age games.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 21, 2016 18:13:20 GMT
I try to be supportive of the trans people I know in real life, and will use he/she/they if they ask me to, but I draw the line at made up pronouns. If a non trans person asked me to address them as "lord or lady" I would refuse because it comes across as them being pompous and self-important. And, although it may sound mean, I feel the same way about weird and obscure pronouns. Nobody should have to memorize your bizarre pronouns, that's just causing everyone you meet an unnecessary hassle. I had a friend at university who was a trans woman and she hated people who would request weird and obscure pronouns because she felt like they were trying to politicize their identity and gave other trans people a bad name. Telling people you identify as butter, however serious you are, cheapens and mocks people who legitimately suffer from gender dysphoria. It makes it much harder to the average person who doesn't really understand the topic to take trans people as a whole seriously. Interestingly, despite my stance on this topic, I'm also a bit mixed on the gender neutral pronouns. It feels a bit self-indulgent. That being said, if I were ever asked to use one, I'd almost certainly use it because of all of the reasons that I've already stated. It costs me nothing and I think it's respectful to do. I also don't think it's very common at all. I mean, I work in NYC. I run a graduate program (and higher education tends to be a place where you see more dialogue on gender). And I have pretty substantial experience with the LGBT community through volunteer work and my social life. And I've never once had someone ask me to use a gender neutral pronoun with them. In practice i would probably end up using it anyway since I generally don't like upsetting people. I suppose when I say "draw the line" I mean the line at what I would actively encourage/support. I probably wouldn't use the pronoun when speaking about them to other people like I would with the more common ones. Honestly I don't expect it to happen. The people who identify as the gender-neutral stuff seem to be a minority of a minority who seldom exist outside of educational institutions. On an unrelated note, it's nice to see you again. I know that our interactions on the old forums were... strained, at times, but It's great to see some familiar faces here on the new BSN. Takes me back to the ol' pre-Inquisition days when I spent way too much time on the old boards!
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 21, 2016 17:18:13 GMT
Syv : You do realize you can disagree with someone's ideas/opinions while using the pronouns they prefer, right? In a hypothetical situation, if someone were to politely ask me to use (for example) butter, butterfly and butterself pronouns, I would try my best to do so. Not because I agree with them (I personally don't consider 'butter' to be a gender), but because it's a matter of courtesy. It's such a miniscule effort to make someone else's day a little bit brighter, even if you disagree. I try to be supportive of the trans people I know in real life, and will use he/she/they if they ask me to, but I draw the line at made up pronouns. If a non trans person asked me to address them as "lord or lady" I would refuse because it comes across as them being pompous and self-important. And, although it may sound mean, I feel the same way about weird and obscure pronouns. Nobody should have to memorize your bizarre pronouns, that's just causing everyone you meet an unnecessary hassle. I had a friend at university who was a trans woman and she hated people who would request weird and obscure pronouns because she felt like they were trying to politicize their identity and gave other trans people a bad name. Telling people you identify as butter, however serious you are, cheapens and mocks people who legitimately suffer from gender dysphoria. It makes it much harder for the average person who doesn't really understand the topic to take trans people as a whole seriously.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 20, 2016 16:23:20 GMT
For starters, given advances in technology I'd imagine that transitioning would be much easier and more convincing than in real life. And if so... why would the character bring it up? In my experience people who are transgender don't really identity as transgender or want to talk about it, they only want to be acknowledged as the gender they present as. For me it raises the question of how you would bring it up naturally? Particularly in a setting with such advanced technology. Even in other games like Inquisition where it comes up it feels a bit 'here's this thing I want to tell the player, even if it doesn't really make sense to bring it up now'. Personally, I think that having a trans character as a romance option would satisfy those requirements, because it would provide the most naturalistic means for someone to want to disclose their trans status to our protagonist, prior to starting a possible relationship with them? Otherwise, would it even need to be discussed given that it's not pertinent information? While I can understand the argument to be made about possible implications about keeping a character's trans status hidden outside of a romance, on the other hand, wouldn't it give first-time players or those who didn't romance them, the chance to befriend and enjoy their character without letting any prejudices get in the way? When certain people have to say "Ignore the glowing praise I gave them yesterday!" about someone, doesn't that perfectly highlight the absurdity of transphobia in the first place? How would it make the character any different from the same one they might have enjoyed before, except now they happen to know was formally X gender? Another possible naturalistic way to go about it would be to have the trans character be a friend of the protagonists, so it's something that they already knew about, but we as the audience can only learn about later in the game? Maybe have it casually dropped in a similar scene to one in Trespasser, where Bull acted like an over-protective parent if Krem potentially started a relationship with Maryden... so our protagonist likewise can show concern towards our friends relationship, whether things are going okay and they need to step in and talk with anyone? I agree that a romance option or close friend are the two instances where a conversation on the matter would make perfect sense and would feel natural. Though I'm not sure a trans LI is a good idea. I'm not necessarily opposed to it myself, although I have to admit that I'd much prefer an LI who wasn't trans for my own Ryder, but I do think it would invite a lot of transphobia into the conversation surrounding the game. I'm not sure I'd want to see the arguments that would arise as a result. It would also be a bit of a niche option in terms of overall appeal. I don't think Krem was handled particularly well, it still felt like it came sort of out of nowhere, like it was the writers who wanted to tell me rather than the characters. Having a squadmate or crew member who only tells you if you pursue their friendship arc and it naturally arises would work, and is probably the best way of including such a character if they choose to.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 20, 2016 1:38:49 GMT
I have fairly mixed opinions about having transgender characters in Mass Effect.
For starters, given advances in technology I'd imagine that transitioning would be much easier and more convincing than in real life. And if so... why would the character bring it up? In my experience people who are transgender don't really identity as transgender or want to talk about it, they only want to be acknowledged as the gender they present as.
For me it raises the question of how you would bring it up naturally? Particularly in a setting with such advanced technology. Even in other games like Inquisition where it comes up it feels a bit 'here's this thing I want to tell the player, even if it doesn't really make sense to bring it up now'.
I'd actually rather see it in one of the alien characters. Different cultures and physiological differences could make it a bit more interesting and unique than the way such characters are usually presented.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 20, 2016 0:24:55 GMT
It's definitely an Andromedan species. They already said they would include at least one, and even if a squadmate has been dropped since then I can't see a species from a different galaxy not having enough enough material to work with or being too similar to a previous character.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 20, 2016 0:15:16 GMT
A male one is more likely than a female one, in my opinion, because we had a prominent female Quarian who was also an LI in the previous three games. A Quarian squadmate is incredibly unlikely at the moment, but an engineer on our ship would make perfect sense.
We don't know if they are going to be in Andromeda, and as other people have said: it's looks pretty 50/50 at the moment. But since they are well liked by a lot of people and wouldn't require facial rigging and animation like the other species it would be odd not to include them.
As for the amount I can't see more than a few hundred signing up, barely enough for a viable population. Then again, this is a setting where cloning and genetic modification technology exist.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 17, 2016 22:26:50 GMT
My favorite species are Turians and Quarians. I think the Turians have the coolest and most interesting designs, while the Quarians have the most interesting culture and history. I'm not too keen on their supposed appearance given the infamous photograph, but they could easily retcon it for something higher-effort in the future.
Least favorite? I could cheat and go with the standard Volus/Vorcha/Batarians but of the prominent species, I'd have to say Asari. Half of their culture and design seems to be focused on making them sexy, rather than interesting.
I don't count humans because they aren't a species designed for the game.
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Post by Ianamus on Dec 9, 2016 0:07:14 GMT
I'm neutral about it. Though I do find Turians and the Qunari attractive on some level I don't think the Krogan are, particularly. I wouldn't be against it, though.
I'd rather see a male Quarian personally, as they are more of a middle ground between human and alien in appearance than the male alien LI's we've had, like the Asari.
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