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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 3:26:49 GMT
Wait. I just understood one thing. Devs relayed via 3rd party that Jaal should turn down Scott (if we are to trust that 3rd party). But we have no sign of Scott even having an option to flirt with Jaal. This can only mean one thing - their code is broken beyond salvation. Well, lul. This same third party also straight up said he personally fucked Jaal as Scott though, did he not? I dont know why we'd trust him at all, let alone that he alone among all the other reviewers suddenly got BW to speak about romances. No he didn't. He believed that since his character continued to flirt with Jaal, that a romance scene (and therefore fucking) was a certainty. After all, Jaal didn't turn down, and continued to be receptive to flirts. So the natural assumption is "If I get to flirt, the scene should result from this."
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 2:20:29 GMT
What upsets me is that Jaal is basically turning into Garrus 2.0 He's this fairly interesting, awesome, infiltrator-esque character who has a close friendship with the male PC and a romance with the female PC and there's no real good reason why he couldn't be for both except that the devs said so. I was already annoyed/upset/miffed over Garrus and now they're repeating it. Again. I really don't see Garrus in him. Their roles might be similar, but their personalities are completely different. And I know Garrus is a fan favourite, but his friendship with Shepard always felt kind of forced to me. Shepard was more of a mentor figure to him in ME1 and they didn't really feel like equals, exactly. Then in ME2 they're suddenly bros for life without anything leading up to it. I have a feeling that Jaal's friendship arc will be more organic though. Well, considering I'm a gay man and the notion of romancing Garrus made me play through that hellhole slog that is the entirety of ME1 just to have a ready FemShep the week of ME2's release. So perhaps I just see more of Garrus in Jaal than other people might. Yeah, Jaal's different, sure. But there are enough parallels to me that I got heavily invested in a character I now can't go anywhere with. Not to say Liam is bad either. I adore what I've seen of him and he's the Jacob/Kaidan I wish I had back in ME1/2. But alas, he's straight too. I'm relegated to Gill, Reyes, and whatever handful of minor romances exist.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 2:11:58 GMT
Can't believe I considered skipping class the day this game came out. I suppose I should thank Bio Ware I'm happily gonna go and get myself some education. That's nothing. I booked two fucking weeks off work for this game fml I took the week off for my birthday and to binge the game. I'll likely still enjoy it, but it's going to leave a bit of a bitter aftertaste, to be poetic.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 2:01:40 GMT
Now that I've had some time to process it, the revelation that Jaal was never intended to be bi makes me feel a lot better. It wasn't about fears of scaring away the dudebros or not wanting to be labeled as SJWs. They just weren't thinking as much as they should have when they decided who the love interests should be. That's not a good thing obviously, but it means they can improve. I'm still disappointed, but I'm not angry anymore. Yeah I am not angry anymore at this point since I am too emotionally drained. I just feel so disappointed in Bioware. Haha. Irony. My face actually feels tired right now.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 2:00:10 GMT
I'm confused by Biofan's response? I mean we know Jaal can't be a thing. We know Gill and Reyes' romances already. Who else are you talking about then.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:57:53 GMT
So, I was told there is a gay male turian who can be flirted with on the Nexus. It's likely not a true romance but it is a thing?
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:52:31 GMT
I mean I've listened to the Jaal dialog and he's every bit the dork Garrus is too. Like, it's almost physically painful that this character I want to connect with is always going to be at a metaphorical arm's length because apparently gay men aren't worth it I guess.
I dunno. I'm a bit empty inside right now.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:49:17 GMT
I'm going to repost what I said in the Jaal thread because it's very relevant to me personally: What upsets me is that Jaal is basically turning into Garrus 2.0 He's this fairly interesting, awesome, infiltrator-esque character who has a close friendship with the male PC and a romance with the female PC and there's no real good reason why he couldn't be for both except that the devs said so. I was already annoyed/upset/miffed over Garrus and now they're repeating it. Again.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:47:30 GMT
What upsets me is that Jaal is basically turning into Garrus 2.0
He's this fairly interesting, awesome, infiltrator-esque character who has a close friendship with the male PC and a romance with the female PC and there's no real good reason why he couldn't be for both except that the devs said so.
I was already annoyed/upset/miffed over Garrus and now they're repeating it. Again.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:39:07 GMT
To be fair to the reviewer? What happened was likely the result of a programming error. The statement he got from the devs was, and I quote: "Jaal should turn down Scott." Which means the datamine that supposedly revealed Jaal was bi? Only revealed a programming oversight wherein someone forgot to put a genderlock on Jaal that should've been there from the beginning. People (myself included) fell into the trap of taking datamine was gospel truth when it was in fact the result of human error creating something that doesn't actually exist at all. Problem is, Scott does have a special relationship with Jaal. It's not romantic, but it's close and the guy thought that was flirting, but he probably didn't tell the dev that, so the dev assumes he tried to flirt. Well, the genderlock IS missing in the code. That's not debateable. It's entirely possible this guy did manage to engage in a ton of flirting that wasn't going to lead anywhere because there was no code for a romance scene with Scott.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:36:29 GMT
Okay so, apparently the statement Starkles got from the devs is, and I quote: "Jaal should turn down Scott." The datamine basically just miraculously exposed a programming oversight. Congratulations, we baited ourselves for...a while now I guess? I don't believe so. This is what I get: The devs knew Jaal was straight. There was no flirt option for Scott. This Starkles guy asked the devs by saying that he successfully flirted with Jaal and the devs got confused, because it should not be possible. They replied that Jaal should turn Scott down (because he was straight). We did not bait ourselves, all the marketing and teasing, tweeting, wink wink did. Or did I misunderstand something? Yes, but marketing tells the devs they're not allowed to give out any specific information. So they're forced to "tease" by giving us vague non-answers, while the fans over-interpret and over-analyze everything they say. I mean we (myself included) believed the datamine to represent something that factually didn't exist. That's not Bioware's fault if it was an error.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:34:23 GMT
Anyway, Jaal fiasco aside, Bioware still needs to account for why m/m relationships basically got jack-all for content. That is VERY much still on the table and should not be left to slide away from us. That is unacceptable.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:33:02 GMT
That trans woman? Yikes. I mean, positive points for trying to include a trans woman. But that....... is a little cringeworthy. It's what someone might write if they didn't actually know a trans person. Jien Garson was voiced by a trans woman, wasn't she? And she got an offscreen death so.... But being voiced by a trans woman doesn't mean the character was trans. So I wouldn't count that for anything.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:31:28 GMT
To be fair to the reviewer? What happened was likely the result of a programming error.
The statement he got from the devs was, and I quote: "Jaal should turn down Scott."
Which means the datamine that supposedly revealed Jaal was bi?
Only revealed a programming oversight wherein someone forgot to put a genderlock on Jaal that should've been there from the beginning.
People (myself included) fell into the trap of taking datamine was gospel truth when it was in fact the result of human error creating something that doesn't actually exist at all.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:23:12 GMT
Okay so, apparently the statement Starkles got from the devs is, and I quote:
"Jaal should turn down Scott."
The datamine basically just miraculously exposed a programming oversight.
Congratulations, we baited ourselves for...a while now I guess?
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:18:23 GMT
It's probably just a bug, they didn't mean for Jaal to be bi but somehow stuff didn't get into the coding right.
Still pissed off that once again, gay men cannot remotely earn that achievement.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:13:32 GMT
And now Mr. Starkles is saying "Jaal isn't officially bi, but he's receptive to Ryder flirts for a majority of the game."
So they made a male version of Cassandra?? I mean if it's a bug, fine. I'll be be mad, but a programming error isn't queerbaiting. But if they really just made a male alien version of Cassandra I'm going to be pissed all over again.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:10:09 GMT
Possible explanation for the datamine then: The lack of genderlock with Jaal may have been a programming oversight. Jaal was meant to be locked out for Scott, but since somehow that code got missed, Jaal never turns down Scott, but the flirt option doesn't appear because the lines of dialog or code that would allow for flirting don't exist. Jaal was never MEANT to be bi in the first place? Let's just lie down and indoctrinate ourselves that Jaal was bi at some point because ME ppl are not that stupid right? (wink yes, bi bi bi bi bi. To be fair, it would explain why the devs are confused over Jaal not turning down Scott. And it would explain the utter lack of audio lines and code. But yes, it would mean we basically baited ourselves.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 1:02:44 GMT
Possible explanation for the datamine then:
The lack of genderlock with Jaal may have been a programming oversight.
Jaal was meant to be locked out for Scott, but since somehow that code got missed, Jaal never turns down Scott, but the flirt option doesn't appear because the lines of dialog or code that would allow for flirting don't exist.
Jaal was never MEANT to be bi in the first place?
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 0:59:42 GMT
So he didn't romance him, but he could flirt? And sounds like he wasn't turned down? Hold up. The devs are confused that Jaal didn't turn down Scott. ....So the datamined revealed a bug in the programming code??????
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 0:55:08 GMT
Phew, we can write Mr. Starkey off: I honestly feel better with this certainty. Well fuck.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 0:53:48 GMT
He claims to have flirted with Jaal quite a bit. So clearly the option to do so did appear in his game???
Someone needs to ask him for a screenshot of the flirt option or something.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 0:46:27 GMT
At this point the devs could pull a bunch of virtual party poppers and spray virtual confetti everywhere and be all "SURPRISE! Jaal actually is bi because nobody knows how to fucking activate the flirt option!" and I would not be surprised in the slightest.
Goddamnit.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 0:27:18 GMT
I usually am against insulting Bioware/EA employees and for making a case civilly so that the point hopefully can be taken more effectively without too much defense, but whoever the single individual is that decided they wouldn't announce the romances before release is an asshole. Seriously, just fuck that guy. I know that originally I was against that position. But right now I'm totally in agreement with you.
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Post by riou on Mar 21, 2017 0:21:21 GMT
The amount of salt I would take this information with is absurd. Mt. Everest doesn't even begin to describe it. What's the highest mountain period? Like in our solar system? Olympus Mons? GOOD ENOUGH
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