inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 8, 2018 21:30:23 GMT
Where did I say it was supposed to be an RPG? I get that its a co-op shooter/loot fest. I'm just pissed that its going to be that. Whether you realized it or not, you implied it by ... "with a tacked on story and a few dialogue choices grafted on to try and fool people into thinking this is actually something worth looking at," (e.g., an RPG like DA or ME). Just how badly does Bioware have to abuse you before you'll stop carrying the torch? That ship sailed long ago, bro. Shooters dont HAVE to have tacked on stories, shooters can quite effectively tell compelling narratives. But what we've seen doesnt indicate that. It's just more evidence of the game's inevitable mediocrity. I'm just here for DA4 tbh. Theres still hope there. Which is why they need to remove their heads from their rectus and actually make games their fans want.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 8, 2018 17:14:56 GMT
Where did I say the game was going to be an RPG? I'm lamenting that it isn't going to be one, and it will inevitably suck balls just like the Division and Destiny.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 8, 2018 17:12:41 GMT
They aren't very likely to just say "Yeah its a co-op shooter with a tacked on story and a few dialogue choices grafted on to try and fool people into thinking this is actually something worth looking at" Actually, they kind of did: Going back to the Fort Tarsis stuff for a moment, I think it's interesting that there's no content gated behind making the right narrative choices in single-player. What was that like, streamlining the narrative stuff? MD: What I want to make sure is that this is a game that appeals to a different audience than what we've seen before. It would be unfortunate if [players] were to run into a full on conversation wheel like from Mass Effect or Dragon Age and just hit full decision paralysis. Just go, 'I don't want to make the wrong decision.' It's interesting and can provide an interesting experience, if you're ready for it. And I think we're going to have a lot of people in Anthem that haven't been exposed to that, so in part this is a bit of an opportunity to expose them to the concept. And then hopefully, maybe in the future, this makes them open to more complicated branching choices. MG: Yeah, I mean the other way to put it is you can tell a great story with agency and great characters without something being a full-fledged RPG. Which is what anthem isn't. Anthem is not a full-fledged RPG, it's an action game with a lot of these elements. And we think that we're well positioned to be able to bring those elements in because we do have experience with the RPG stuff. But it doesn't mean it has to mimic it because it's trying to be its own thing.
A lot of people are in denial about that, but I don't know how Bioware could have said it any plainer. IT AIN'T AN RPG. Where did I say it was supposed to be an RPG? I get that its a co-op shooter/loot fest. I'm just pissed that its going to be that.
Its going to be just as bad as every other one on the market right now, and further sully the name of a once stellar studio
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 8, 2018 14:03:38 GMT
A pretty good summarization of "Bioware's messaging of Anthem" was linked to in the twitter thread by Hrungr : www.usgamer.net/articles/anthem-pax-west-interview-new-details-live-serviceOne question out of that interview: The highlighted part of Gamble's answer is what I think is their mission goal for Anthem and that's what I meant, when I said where I don't get the negativity. If they succeed to bring a great story into the multiplayer shooter genre, that should be seen as a win for players and a great accomplishment, because that should help to improve games in general. They aren't very likely to just say "Yeah its a co-op shooter with a tacked on story and a few dialogue choices grafted on to try and fool people into thinking this is actually something worth looking at"
The fact that they even have a specific cordoned off area for the story to happen is alarming enough
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 7, 2018 19:52:35 GMT
Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Anthem is their new flagship I am p*ssed that the only AAA RPG company worthy of the name is gone now. Sure Dragon Age will linger for a bit, we might get one or two more games that qualify as role-playing from them. But Bioware's story-rich RPGs are going away in favor of the quick and easy money of shooters. Yeah, I can tell you're sneering at me. But look at the direction of the "evolution" of their games. How "streamlined" they've become. The greater emphasis on action over RPG. You can't tell me that this wasn't the logical conclusion. Anthem is Bioware's new normal. Count on it. THAT is what I'm p*ssed about. Eh, maybe. Probably depends a lot on how successful is Anthem. Plus, there are signs they're not going to abandon story RPG's - they respond positively to pressure on Twitter when folks say they still want story-based RPG's. Well they're hardly likely to just tell people to get over it and suck up the co-op shooters
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 11:26:41 GMT
It also remembered to actually be fun and deliver on the space opera aspect of ME. ME2 didn't do a whole lot to advance the main plot true, but that isn't a failing of the game itself which is far and away the best received of all the ME games. Its a flaw when considering the story of the whole trilogy admittedly, but I maintain that ME3 is really where the ball is dropped story wise. Sure the writers weren't set up well in ME3, but it seems to me that they still didn't exactly give it their all. I think ME3 was fine except the ending. Could not stand that creepy holographic spawn of the Leviathan, much less the choices offered. Destroy, always, but not with MEHEM (which, sadly, console gamers can't use). If only that were true l. ME3 had far more issues than the ending, they just get overlooked
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 11:25:34 GMT
And Halo 5, Fallout 4, Batman: Arkham Knight, Star Wars Battlefront, and Just Cause 3
and GTA 5 was 2013.....
Halo 5 was panned heavily, Arkham Knight had a lot of controversy around it due to the PC release for I saw several sites only give it an honorable mention because of how much they bungled it. Battlefront also had a lot of controversy because of the lack of single player. The point is that 2015 was more crowded for AAA releases
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 11:23:23 GMT
Steelcan you don't even have any arguments to defend this. So there were only 3 good AAA games that year? By who account? Yours? Just because you want it that doesn't make it true... And if you think DA:I had serious competition because Banner Saga 2 and DS2 launched the same year,....
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 4:53:05 GMT
because as we all know "pretty bare" actually means "this was literally the only AAA game released and nothing else" Notice there's no heavy hitting long established franchises, no Battlefields, no CoD's, no AC's, that were well received. TW3 was still a year away. Dark Souls almost makes it, but DS2 is widely considered the worst in the series.
Really the games in the running wee Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor which kinda came out of left field for being decent (even if it is a travesty unto all that is good in the world) and Wolfenstein and DA:I for major AAA releases that were well received. Divinity, Alien Isolation, and Banner Saga don't really fit the AAA label.
Take a look at 2015 and the competition that The Witcher 3 had, its only real competition was Metal Gear Solid 5, Grand Theft Auto 5, and Bloodbourne. Pretty light year there too. And Halo 5, Fallout 4, Batman: Arkham Knight, Star Wars Battlefront, and Just Cause 3
and GTA 5 was 2013.....
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 4:37:29 GMT
Depends on what you think the problems with ME3 were. I'm not convinced the foundation laid by ME1 was any good. ME2 comes off better than ME3 because it doesn't really try to deal with the issues. Its easier to list things that weren't problems in ME3 tbh
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 4:25:20 GMT
I'd like an open world Mass Effect game, but I have no reason to believe that they are capable of producing a good one. Stick to the tried and true Mass Effect 2 format for now. Tried and true? The game the turned Shepard into Space Jesus? The game that surrounded Shepard with enemies [that he had fought in ME1]? The game that entirely diverged from the main threat except in a DLC? You may have liked the game but it did not fit the overall storyline. It also remembered to actually be fun and deliver on the space opera aspect of ME. ME2 didn't do a whole lot to advance the main plot true, but that isn't a failing of the game itself which is far and away the best received of all the ME games. Its a flaw when considering the story of the whole trilogy admittedly, but I maintain that ME3 is really where the ball is dropped story wise. Sure the writers weren't set up well in ME3, but it seems to me that they still didn't exactly give it their all.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 4:16:51 GMT
because as we all know "pretty bare" actually means "this was literally the only AAA game released" notice there's no heavy hitting long establish franchises, no Battlefields, no CoD's, no AC's, TW3 was still a year away. Dark Souls almost makes it, but DS2 is widely considered the worst in the series. While I agree that 2014 was a comparatively light gaming year, there's a new Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed released every year (I hate this practice). I didn't mean they didn't launch that, year I'll clarify that, I mean the title released that year weren't in the running for GoTY
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 6, 2018 4:04:16 GMT
You and everyone else reading this knows what I meant. Unless you want to compare DA:I to whatever 12 different versions of Candy Crush also came out in 2014, I think we can take AAA releases as the baseline, and it was a pretty bare year. Alien Isolation Dark Souls 2 Divinity: Original Sin Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Titanfall The Banner Saga Wolfenstein: The New Order There were plenty of games that could compete for game of the year, just because you don't like the winner doesn't mean it was a bad year for games and the list could be longer for those are just the ones I played or purchased. because as we all know "pretty bare" actually means "this was literally the only AAA game released and nothing else" Notice there's no heavy hitting long established franchises, no Battlefields, no CoD's, no AC's, that were well received. TW3 was still a year away. Dark Souls almost makes it, but DS2 is widely considered the worst in the series.
Really the games in the running wee Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor which kinda came out of left field for being decent (even if it is a travesty unto all that is good in the world) and Wolfenstein and DA:I for major AAA releases that were well received. Divinity, Alien Isolation, and Banner Saga don't really fit the AAA label.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 5, 2018 21:04:48 GMT
DA:I won GOTY by default, it was a pretty poor year in general IMdB lists 812 games released in 2014. www.imdb.com/search/title?sort=moviemeter,asc&title_type=game&year=2014 And DAI managed to be judged the best game of the year by default? I hope you will share this magic trick that a shit game can persuade 134 media outlets to declare it 'game of the year' by default. Certainly not taking issue with you personally, Steelcan , but that's comedy post of the month, thank you for it. You and everyone else reading this knows what I meant. Unless you want to compare DA:I to whatever 12 different versions of Candy Crush also came out in 2014, I think we can take AAA releases as the baseline, and it was a pretty bare year.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 4, 2018 19:46:54 GMT
BioWare seems to be in the awkward position where they're games are not doing well in public perception, even if they're getting by on sales. Dragon Age Inquisition is quite simply not on par with games like TW3 even if it sold very well (its launch in 2014 was extremely fortuitous). Andromeda is in a similar spot. Before that was ME3, its been a long time since a BioWare game has been considered an unambiguous success. BioWare public perception was always people laughing at them. Whatever it was for the cheesy romance, the crappy/reused animations, the so-so gameplay or cheesy generic plots as far back as the early 2000s. The public perception of BioWare public perception is what changed. People were cool with it before, now they aren't. Also, DAI is 2014 GOTY. It was acclaimed by the public when it released. The fact that some people changed their expectations of what the game should have been 6 months after it released and started to claim it was shit is something I still find extremely weird to this day. DA:I won GOTY by default, it was a pretty poor year in general
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 4, 2018 16:31:34 GMT
also known as "the single worst thing to happen to Bethesda games" I dunno, monetized mods comes pretty close. Though I suppose Valve takes part of the blame for that as well. if monetized mods crowded out the free modding scene that'd be more relevant I think, but they clearly didn't
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 4, 2018 16:23:38 GMT
its been a long time since a BioWare game has been considered an unambiguous success. How well do you know BioWare fans? What BioWare game has ever been an unambiguous success? Then can make a GOTY, granted in a non-peak year, and it's still considered shit by some. there will always be naysayers of course, but I think we can point to DA:O and ME1/2 as unambiguous successes.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 4, 2018 15:58:58 GMT
Let's just be real, BioWare are getting their asses kicked. In what way? Their next game isn't out yet. BioWare seems to be in the awkward position where they're games are not doing well in public perception, even if they're getting by on sales. Dragon Age Inquisition is quite simply not on par with games like TW3 even if it sold very well (its launch in 2014 was extremely fortuitous). Andromeda is in a similar spot. Before that was ME3, its been a long time since a BioWare game has been considered an unambiguous success.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 3, 2018 19:22:07 GMT
they literally shunted off Mass Effect Andromeda to the B team in order to make their Destiny clone. Perhaps people like me don't want to believe that BioWare really sat down and said "you know what we should do, make a game with no romances, minimal story, based around 'live content', in a co-op loot shooter". Like that kinda of crap had to come down from EA right? RIGHT?! What do you think of this hypothetical? The choice was between doing no next Mass Effect at all, or letting the B Team do it. Ignoring hindsight, which would you have preferred? This assumes the Anthem ship had already sailed and there was no chance of that team doing Mass Effect next. I personally think this is what really happened. It was a tough choice, but better to try and give the IP a new start in a new galaxy than just go straight to shelving it indefinitely. As it happened, the gamble did not pay off and it go shelved anyway, but at the time, there was probably some non-zero chance the B team might have pulled it off. I've been saying since ME3 its time to take the franchise back behind the shed, but that isn't really the point. I'd be just as concerned, if not more so tbh, if for example, Obsidian decided their next game would be a MOBA, Anthem is no different. Its a far cry from BW's bread and butter for the past decade and a half at least, and its trend chasing.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 3, 2018 19:18:39 GMT
they literally shunted off Mass Effect Andromeda to the B team in order to make their Destiny clone. Perhaps people like me don't want to believe that BioWare really sat down and said "you know what we should do, make a game with no romances, minimal story, based around 'live content', in a co-op loot shooter". Like that kinda of crap had to come down from EA right? RIGHT?! I don't think so, because after ten years (or more) creating Mass Effect, I'm pretty sure that the team wanted a new challenge instead of making another game with the same formula. Also all that romance talk might become annoying for devs, don't you think? Lord knows I'm fine with stepping back from some of the insanity of the BioWare fandom, but that's not what they've told us. They talk about how this is an evolution of their craft, not a totally new side show that they should be telling us. It's clear that either they or EA don't want to make more Mass Effect games, but then they should come out and say that, not try and feed us some BS about it being the natural next step.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 3, 2018 18:49:31 GMT
I think their message is pretty clear: they want to enter the multiplayer shooter market with the goal of providing the best story a multiplayer shooter has seen yet. We will see, whether they succeed, but their goal is no secret. What I don't get is the criticism of this message. They want to do something new and think they have a very good opportunity to succeed, so why not? Doesn't mean that they abandon their single player franchises DA and ME. If they do, that's another story, but comparing and criticizing Anthem to their single player games doesn't make any sense IMO. The question for Anthem should just be whether it'll be a good or great or bad game in the multiplayer shooter genre. they literally shunted off Mass Effect Andromeda to the B team in order to make their Destiny clone. Perhaps people like me don't want to believe that BioWare really sat down and said "you know what we should do, make a game with no romances, minimal story, based around 'live content', in a co-op loot shooter". Like that kinda of crap had to come down from EA right? RIGHT?!
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 3, 2018 1:56:06 GMT
Is it really that much better to make a new shitty CC than just port DA:I's with updated assets?
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Sept 3, 2018 1:51:39 GMT
Its just to me how they presented it on the panel, for the initial game story is over but if you want to continue there are these contracts. My impression is that it's basically akin to Skyrim and Fallouts radiant quest system, where even after the main campaign is over, you can go to one of the Agents at Fort Tarsis and do a mission for them. The mission will randomly select an objective for you to complete, what faction you'll have to deal with, and where the mission will take place on the map. also known as "the single worst thing to happen to Bethesda games"
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Jul 17, 2018 4:30:59 GMT
We are not talking about mere contractors, we are talking about brain drain of BioWare's best leaving the company and not simply the project. Not only that but we've seen what disasters that BioWare's noobs and inexperienced devs are capable of. Sorry, but that's a misrepresentation of what happens - first: James Ohlen was pretty clear that he's leaving game industry as a whole to focus on a more personal project. As he's someone who has spent 22 years in the company, it is reasonable to expect something like it. Big projects like AAA games are intensely collaborative processes in which most individual gamedevs are small cogs in a big machine, and it isn't the first time (or in relation to Bioware) that I've seen devs leaving big companies to pursue smaller, more personal projects. Second - is it really intended on your part to suggest that people who haven't worked with Bioware for 15- 20- or 22 years are 'noobs and inexperienced devs' or that somehow years spent in the company means that they're the very best (not a dig at Mr. Ohlen, just pointing out that veteran status doesn't mean that the younger talent is worse)? The fact that BW Montreal was inexperienced and left to its own devices while Edmonton focused on DA/Anthem doesn't mean that all of them are, or that spending 7, 5 or less years with Bioware makes someone a noob. A ton of people who come working for Bioware now are industry veterans in their own right after all. There's still an overall worrying trend of BioWare veterans leaving the studio/abandoning ship at a time when the future of the studio is the subject of considerable doubt. They might be getting replaced by industry veterans from other studios, but that's neither here nor there, the people who made BioWare's reputation worth something are leaving or have already left, and that in itself is a worrying trend.
|
|
inherit
98
0
Feb 18, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
3,042
Steelcan
2,078
August 2016
steelcan
|
Post by Steelcan on Jul 17, 2018 4:19:47 GMT
I hope it crashes and burns and finally puts BioWare out of its misery
|
|