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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 10, 2017 5:15:15 GMT
I wouldn't say this in that thread, since I don't want to go on about a character when it's not pertinent. A lot of the recent stuff in the Gil thread has him remind me of Dorian. He would definitely be my choice in MEA for that reason. Er... not the Dorian part, but the elements of Dorian's romance that draw me to him: learning to trust and put your faith in someone else, emotional healing, finding a purpose, finding inspiration in someone close to you, etc.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 10, 2017 7:15:24 GMT
I've been watching the occasional episode of the CNN series Believer, and I think the host Reza Aslan is what Dorian will look like in about 10 years. I couldn't find a pic that looked particularly Dorian-y, but I do get the vibe when I watch him. |
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Post by disgustednoise on Apr 10, 2017 9:08:39 GMT
I wouldn't say this in that thread, since I don't want to go on about a character when it's not pertinent. A lot of the recent stuff in the Gil thread has him remind me of Dorian. He would definitely be my choice in MEA for that reason. Er... not the Dorian part, but the elements of Dorian's romance that draw me to him: learning to trust and put your faith in someone else, emotional healing, finding a purpose, finding inspiration in someone close to you, etc. Gil's bedroom scene is amazing and reminds me a lot of Dorian's, just that the vulnerability is before sex rather than after it. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 10, 2017 9:48:32 GMT
I wouldn't say this in that thread, since I don't want to go on about a character when it's not pertinent. A lot of the recent stuff in the Gil thread has him remind me of Dorian. He would definitely be my choice in MEA for that reason. Er... not the Dorian part, but the elements of Dorian's romance that draw me to him: learning to trust and put your faith in someone else, emotional healing, finding a purpose, finding inspiration in someone close to you, etc. Gil's bedroom scene is amazing and reminds me a lot of Dorian's, just that the vulnerability is before sex rather than after it. I just want to hug these guys and make them feel better! "You're not alone! You have me!" |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 12:42:05 GMT
Gil is far more subdued than Dorian in every aspect. His talents, his appearance, his looks... Dorian has him beat in every aspect. Part of why I love Dorian so much is that he is a rare male companion who feels like an actual equal, a partner to the Allmighty Player1, rather than an underling with some small talent and a hobby. I really cherish that, and that what leads me to overlook how much the Inquisitor is diminished by the Trespasser. That gives me hope that they can weather the Inquisitor's irrelevance (I fervently hope it is a temporary irrelevance).... with Gil, we are back to normal, the bright star, the Ryder is eclipsing him, so, yeah, I am more into Reyes or Jaal or even Peebs..
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Post by Catilina on Apr 10, 2017 18:46:39 GMT
This is just nice:   Better resolution: source |
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 10, 2017 18:50:14 GMT
I cannot play MEA as my computer is not good enough. However, I have watched a few video clips, particularly of the M/M romance options but also some other characters, and it has made me appreciate all the more the characters we have in all the Dragon Age games, not just DAI. May be I do need to play the game to really start caring about the characters in MEA but I find they just aren't that memorable. Perhaps it is just the quality of the VA. Some of the characters in DAI may not be to my taste and some may annoy me intensely but at least they do provoke a reaction in me. The same was true in previous DA games. May be it was because the former leader writer, David Gaider, holds to the mantra that character comes first, so he paid attention to quality control in bringing the characters to life.
As for Dorian, I agree with Domi that part of his attraction is that he is such a strong character. That is a combination of well thought out dialogue, good animation (the body language is excellent) and an amazing VA, who actually seems to believe in the character he is voicing.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 10, 2017 19:17:01 GMT
I cannot play MEA as my computer is not good enough. However, I have watched a few video clips, particularly of the M/M romance options but also some other characters, and it has made me appreciate all the more the characters we have in all the Dragon Age games, not just DAI. May be I do need to play the game to really start caring about the characters in MEA but I find they just aren't that memorable. Perhaps it is just the quality of the VA. Some of the characters in DAI may not be to my taste and some may annoy me intensely but at least they do provoke a reaction in me. The same was true in previous DA games. May be it was because the former leader writer, David Gaider, holds to the mantra that character comes first, so he paid attention to quality control in bringing the characters to life. As for Dorian, I agree with Domi that part of his attraction is that he is such a strong character. That is a combination of well thought out dialogue, good animation (the body language is excellent) and an amazing VA, who actually seems to believe in the character he is voicing. I agree that David Gaider's influence was significant in creating more memorable characters throughout the DA franchise, but I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that the DA universe just seems to be a more morally grey universe overall. Dorian is great example of that with him wanting to reform Tevinter while also having little to no compunctions against about killing his enemies to do it. Plus, the DA approval system gives the companions a lot more opportunities to show their moral or political convictions. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 19:41:33 GMT
I cannot play MEA as my computer is not good enough. However, I have watched a few video clips, particularly of the M/M romance options but also some other characters, and it has made me appreciate all the more the characters we have in all the Dragon Age games, not just DAI. May be I do need to play the game to really start caring about the characters in MEA but I find they just aren't that memorable. Perhaps it is just the quality of the VA. Some of the characters in DAI may not be to my taste and some may annoy me intensely but at least they do provoke a reaction in me. The same was true in previous DA games. May be it was because the former leader writer, David Gaider, holds to the mantra that character comes first, so he paid attention to quality control in bringing the characters to life. As for Dorian, I agree with Domi that part of his attraction is that he is such a strong character. That is a combination of well thought out dialogue, good animation (the body language is excellent) and an amazing VA, who actually seems to believe in the character he is voicing. For me I had to play the game. Andromeda's strength is not in presenting you with one impossibly bright character, like Dorian (or Solas or whoever you end up adoring), it's in how the crew as a whole comes alive and functions without the hours of awkward silences and companions just standing around. Your team is invested in the plot, observes what happens, and ALSO has a life that happens against the background if stories that are actually quite a bit more interesting than largerly hunter-gathering lifestyle and enjoyment of many forest landscapes in Inquisition. As a love interest my current man, Jaal, sucks. As a part of the game he is awesome. It's hard for me to explain how it worked for me, but I am deeply invested in Andromeda without being in love with a character. Normally my mechanism of gamegasming is via commitment to one or two special characters per game. It's different in Andromeda. I am not digitally in love at all with anyone in Andromeda, I am not crashing as befit a 22 yo protagonist, but I love my crew as a whole, and I am bonded and I want to know what happens next for most quests. Sort of like when you were eighteen or twenty and had your own posse of close friends, and gods help you trying to figure out what you specifically felt towards one another over the camraderie. When you seriously promise someone that when you both are old, like forty, and nothing turns out, we'll just marry one another, and it makes a perfect sense. :) Even though nobody comes close to the supernovas of the characters (for me, personally) like Thane, Alistair, Anders and Dorian.... Gil is no space Dorian, neither is Reyes, nor Jaal. Maybe there is a reason why Andromeda does not have a Space Dorian. Maybe it's because it is trying to create a different attachment mechanism. |
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 10, 2017 22:23:42 GMT
That crew camaraderie was what I felt in ME2. After being forced to decide between the fate of two people in ME1, I was wary of getting too attached to any one person in case they did it to me again, so I only committed (to Jack) after we came through the suicide mission successfully, which the game allowed me to do, which was great. I was so pumped up as we came out at the end of the mission and everyone had survived and that was because I had made the right call on decisions. It even made planning scanning worth it.
That was the one thing that disappointed me about DAI. Running around collecting all those resources to upgrade Skyhold and it didn't make a blind bit of difference to the outcome. I had been convinced we were going to make our last stand there and it would.
So I get what you say about it being a team rather then a group of individuals but I think it is the big characters who make the games for me, whether I romance them or not. Take Mordin Solus; you couldn't romance him but I just loved having him around and looked forward to my little chats with him on the ship. That was the beauty of Dorian; I loved him whether as a friend or a romance.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 10, 2017 23:40:34 GMT
Well geez, I didn't mean to turn it into a Gil v Dorian thing. I disagree with most of what was said because I wasn't trying to compare them as individual characters and people, but I'm not going to get into it.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 10, 2017 23:51:17 GMT
... I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that the DA universe just seems to be a more morally grey universe overall. Dorian is great example of that with him wanting to reform Tevinter while also having little to no compunctions against about killing his enemies to do it. I don't think you can use this as a metric in any of the games, for any character, because NO ONE shows any moral compunctions against killing, not even a character like Bethany, who I would suggest is one of the more "innocent" characters in the entire DA series. This is going into headcanon, which I don't care to do most of the time, but it illustrates my point. Obviously, this doesn't apply to all Trevelyans everywhere. Even though mine is 30-years-old, he's spent his entire life with his family doing the nobility thing. He's fought in a couple of Grand Tourneys (mostly for fun). He's never been in a position to kill anyone. His first killings of other people were against the mages and templars in the Hinterlands. I wouldn't mind a way to address that in the game, but I just don't see that as feasible with the way combat works. Killing is part of the "game," it is a literal necessity in order to proceed. The only time killing is brought up as a thing* is when it's made into a joke, usually about the PC being good at it, or wreaking havoc wherever they go; I've always seen that as sort of a wink by the writers to the player, acknowledging the combat mechanics and the all-powerful PC. * Outside of characters who have that as their profession. |
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 11, 2017 9:48:11 GMT
I agree that you cannot really judge a character by their willingness to kill things, since we do that all the time. A pacifist Inquisitor wouldn't have lasted very long.
Where it would be relevant is when there is the option to talk a character down instead of fight them and how they react to this. A case in point would be Calpernia where Dorian actually approves of her motivations (if not her choice of allies) and of you letting her go peacefully when she realises her mistake, whereas Solas does not (I can't remember all the other reactions but those two spring to mind).
I can imagine that Dorian would be quite ruthless in hunting down his father's killers no matter how things were left between them because of the reason they killed him and the fact, as I seem to recall he says, they are likely to be the same people he is trying to challenge with the Lucerni. Motivations are important in Dragon Age when judging a character, not simply the bare fact they are willing to kill people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 14:24:49 GMT
I agree that you cannot really judge a character by their willingness to kill things, since we do that all the time. A pacifist Inquisitor wouldn't have lasted very long. Where it would be relevant is when there is the option to talk a character down instead of fight them and how they react to this. A case in point would be Calpernia where Dorian actually approves of her motivations (if not her choice of allies) and of you letting her go peacefully when she realises her mistake, whereas Solas does not (I can't remember all the other reactions but those two spring to mind). I can imagine that Dorian would be quite ruthless in hunting down his father's killers no matter how things were left between them because of the reason they killed him and the fact, as I seem to recall he says, they are likely to be the same people he is trying to challenge with the Lucerni. Motivations are important in Dragon Age when judging a character, not simply the bare fact they are willing to kill people. Dorian also breaks off the relationship if the Inquisitor gratuitously slays the trader that tries to blackmail him into using his influence as a price of Dorian's amulet. |
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 11, 2017 14:46:06 GMT
I agree that you cannot really judge a character by their willingness to kill things, since we do that all the time. A pacifist Inquisitor wouldn't have lasted very long. Where it would be relevant is when there is the option to talk a character down instead of fight them and how they react to this. A case in point would be Calpernia where Dorian actually approves of her motivations (if not her choice of allies) and of you letting her go peacefully when she realises her mistake, whereas Solas does not (I can't remember all the other reactions but those two spring to mind). I can imagine that Dorian would be quite ruthless in hunting down his father's killers no matter how things were left between them because of the reason they killed him and the fact, as I seem to recall he says, they are likely to be the same people he is trying to challenge with the Lucerni. Motivations are important in Dragon Age when judging a character, not simply the bare fact they are willing to kill people. Dorian also breaks off the relationship if the Inquisitor gratuitously slays the trader that tries to blackmail him into using his influence as a price of Dorian's amulet. In fairness, he does that so as not to intrude on the player's passionate affair with the Murder Knife. It's the only one that's stood by us all these years! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 20:58:55 GMT
Oh, just noticed, in a Twitter thread, there is a retwit of Dorian's pic in black and white. Well, him being all sharp angles, it looks really good.
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Post by fylimar on Apr 14, 2017 8:03:53 GMT
That crew camaraderie was what I felt in ME2. After being forced to decide between the fate of two people in ME1, I was wary of getting too attached to any one person in case they did it to me again, so I only committed (to Jack) after we came through the suicide mission successfully, which the game allowed me to do, which was great. I was so pumped up as we came out at the end of the mission and everyone had survived and that was because I had made the right call on decisions. It even made planning scanning worth it. That was the one thing that disappointed me about DAI. Running around collecting all those resources to upgrade Skyhold and it didn't make a blind bit of difference to the outcome. I had been convinced we were going to make our last stand there and it would. So I get what you say about it being a team rather then a group of individuals but I think it is the big characters who make the games for me, whether I romance them or not. Take Mordin Solus; you couldn't romance him but I just loved having him around and looked forward to my little chats with him on the ship. That was the beauty of Dorian; I loved him whether as a friend or a romance. It was the same with me about Skyhold. I was trying to make it better the whole game, because I thought, we would make the last stand there and I was a bit upset, when we had the last battle at the temple again. I agree about well written strong characters - they are, what keeps me invested in a story, no matter, if it is a book, movie or a game. And Dorian is really a great character, if he would be the hero of a book, I would so read it. Since I normally play female characters, I haven't done his romance yet, but he is always one of my best buddies. I might make a male inquisitor just for him one day  Anyway, just dropped in to say that Bioware did everything right with Dorian. |
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Post by Walter Black on May 1, 2017 3:34:00 GMT
One thing about Dorian's personal quest and romance that I didn't get before, but now seems obvious in hindsight: when Dragon Age: Origins established the lore of mages in Thedas, so many fans equated them with the plight of LBGTQ people in the real world. They ignored the vast discrepancies in power between mages and mundanes, ignored the threat of blood magic and demonic possession, and the fact that the very gay David Gaider established said rules because he hated that traditional Dungeons & Dragons could Charm normals with no consequence. Among other things, Dorian's Companion Quest explicitly showed that no, DA Mages are not code for being gay, being gay is being gay  . |
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Post by aslightjump on May 6, 2017 2:31:20 GMT
Alright, I feel very silly but I literally just created this account so I could ask this. On one of my recent playthroughs I screwed up romancing Blackwall because I didn't flirt with him at the right moment. I've heard that Dorian has a bit more lee-way, but where is his Point of No Return, or where the romance is locked in (soft and officially). Because I've also heard that you can be kind of coy with Dorian (like shy with the flirting) but you can still easily manage the romance. Mostly I'm pretty excited because this is my first time romancing him. All my other characters have been like half in love with him so.
Also, sidenote, did anyone else skew their Inquisitor kinda young (like nineteen) and then realized Dorian was 30?
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Post by Catilina on May 6, 2017 8:24:39 GMT
Alright, I feel very silly but I literally just created this account so I could ask this. On one of my recent playthroughs I screwed up romancing Blackwall because I didn't flirt with him at the right moment. I've heard that Dorian has a bit more lee-way, but where is his Point of No Return, or where the romance is locked in (soft and officially). Because I've also heard that you can be kind of coy with Dorian (like shy with the flirting) but you can still easily manage the romance. Mostly I'm pretty excited because this is my first time romancing him. All my other characters have been like half in love with him so. Also, sidenote, did anyone else skew their Inquisitor kinda young (like nineteen) and then realized Dorian was 30? Inquisitor is ~18–40, depending on your concept. Dorian is ~30. I romanced him with ~25-30 years old characters. |
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Post by Catilina on May 6, 2017 8:37:41 GMT
One thing about Dorian's personal quest and romance that I didn't get before, but now seems obvious in hindsight: when Dragon Age: Origins established the lore of mages in Thedas, so many fans equated them with the plight of LBGTQ people in the real world. They ignored the vast discrepancies in power between mages and mundanes, ignored the threat of blood magic and demonic possession, and the fact that the very gay David Gaider established said rules because he hated that traditional Dungeons & Dragons could Charm normals with no consequence. Among other things, Dorian's Companion Quest explicitly showed that no, DA Mages are not code for being gay, being gay is being gay . Dorian's personal quest only about his sexuality, not about the danger of the mages. The other possible aspect is the temptation of using the "easy way" to solve everything, no matter the cost (Blood Magic in Halward's case). |
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Post by gervaise21 on May 6, 2017 10:07:23 GMT
I always imagine my Inquisitors are at the very least between 25-30 years of age. The reason for this is the degree of experience they must have for Cassandra and Leliana to be willing to entrust them with leadership. I realise that they may have demonstrated suitability in the time between Haven and Skyhold and there is the whole Herald of Andraste aspect but I really cannot see them giving so much autonomy from the outset to make decisions on behalf of the organisation if they were little more than a teenager. Most of our companions are upwards of 30 years of age, so with the best will in the world I think they would find it difficult to accept such a youthful leader as well. Even Sera, although she has the attitude of a teenager, is in fact (according to WoT2) likely to be at least in her early twenties by the start of Inquisition.
In my own case I mostly play elves, so I feel the Keeper would not have entrusted the mission of spying on the humans to a young, inexperienced member of the clan. They need to have considerable experience in looking after themselves and surviving alone in the wilds if they are going to travel all the way from the western Freemarches (our clan ends up in Wycome remember) across the Waking Sea and then the length of Ferelden among potentially hostile humans in order to get to the Conclave. Then the fact he is gay accounts for why my Dalish Hunter has never married, despite being a highly suitable catch, and another reason why he would volunteer/the Keeper would appoint him because he has no wife or children relying on him in the clan.
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Post by Walter Black on May 6, 2017 11:38:50 GMT
One thing about Dorian's personal quest and romance that I didn't get before, but now seems obvious in hindsight: when Dragon Age: Origins established the lore of mages in Thedas, so many fans equated them with the plight of LBGTQ people in the real world. They ignored the vast discrepancies in power between mages and mundanes, ignored the threat of blood magic and demonic possession, and the fact that the very gay David Gaider established said rules because he hated that traditional Dungeons & Dragons could Charm normals with no consequence. Among other things, Dorian's Companion Quest explicitly showed that no, DA Mages are not code for being gay, being gay is being gay . Dorian's personal quest only about his sexuality, not about the danger of the mages. The other possible aspect is the temptation of using the "easy way" to solve everything, no matter the cost (Blood Magic in Halward's case). In universe, yes. But you cannot deny that some LGBT fans in the real world, having seen the struggle mages face in Thedas, adamantly insist that the mage plight is about them and them alone. |
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Post by Catilina on May 6, 2017 11:47:57 GMT
Dorian's personal quest only about his sexuality, not about the danger of the mages. The other possible aspect is the temptation of using the "easy way" to solve everything, no matter the cost (Blood Magic in Halward's case). In universe, yes. But you cannot deny that some LGBT fans in the real world, having seen the struggle mages face in Thedas, adamantly insist that the mage plight is about them and them alone.Everyone can found analogy in game, it depend on the perspective. If you remove the magic from the formula, you got the pure oppression, the abuse of power and freedom or security issues. But Dorian's quest isn't analogy: Dorian's quest is clear. It's about his homosexuality and about that his father doesn't capable of accepting his sexuality and wants to change that (the tool no matter – IRL we also know about some wrong and dangerous experiments... only the blood magic is an analogy, not the whole quest). |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 6, 2017 21:05:36 GMT
Alright, I feel very silly but I literally just created this account so I could ask this. On one of my recent playthroughs I screwed up romancing Blackwall because I didn't flirt with him at the right moment. I've heard that Dorian has a bit more lee-way, but where is his Point of No Return, or where the romance is locked in (soft and officially). Because I've also heard that you can be kind of coy with Dorian (like shy with the flirting) but you can still easily manage the romance. Mostly I'm pretty excited because this is my first time romancing him. All my other characters have been like half in love with him so. Also, sidenote, did anyone else skew their Inquisitor kinda young (like nineteen) and then realized Dorian was 30? There is a soft lock and an official lock-in. The soft lock has two paths. 1 If you take the  during the post-Halward scene, the Inquisitor initiates, but they share a mutual kiss. After the Giselle conversation, depending on approval, the romance quest becomes available. 2 If you do NOT take the in the post-Halward scene, you can pick the "I think you're brave" option. In the Giselle conversation, if you take the here, there is a yes/no romance confirmation dialogue. Hitting yes will have Dorian initiate a kiss, which is sort of a surprise kiss -- the Inquisitor looks stunned and just stands there, but it's also obvious that he enjoys it. After that, you need to talk to Dorian again and have another conversation to confirm that you want to start the romance. This is a bit buggy, so you need to LEAVE the map (go to Hinterlands or something). After you return, the romance quest NPC will be available. Since you can see those two paths in succession, I suggest you watch them both to determine which you like best for your Inquisitor. I prefer the surprise kiss for my Inquisitor's personality, but others like the first option. The official lock-in comes after the romance quest with a quarters scene. You can have sex, after which there is further dialogue establishing the relationship. You can also decline sex, while still maintaining the romance -- a "take it slow" type of option. Again, I do suggest you watch both. I think they're both really nice, and you can easily craft the whole thing for your headcanon. As an additional note, the romance quest is given by a messenger NPC that appears below Dorian's level, in Solas's room. If you want to hold off doing the quest for whatever reason, you can get to the library by other means. There is a door near the throne that leads to an alternate path. The NPC will just hang out there until you run by; she forces you to stop and accept the quest. To your other question, no. I've always thought Dorian was older anyway. I like playing characters that are closer to my own age, so I had my Inquisitor at 30 as well. It worked out. IMO all of the origins are so vague that you have a pretty broad range to headcanon whatever you want; don't let anyone tell you otherwise. |
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during the post-Halward scene, the Inquisitor initiates, but they share a mutual kiss. After the Giselle conversation, depending on approval, the romance quest becomes available.