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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 18:12:21 GMT
See above. People hated the functions of the Crucible. There is no way Bioware could not know this unless they were being willfully stupid. So adding a Refuse option where Shepard says pretty much what the audience was saying right before a "rocks fall, everyone dies" ending AND triggering the same ending by shooting the Catalyst (which people showed on Youtube to express their anger and frustration) displayed some truly breathtaking amounts of douchebaggery. They were basically saying "yeah, we heard you. We just don't care." What could have really nailed it for me is a 4th option that would let you use the crucible - or some interface with the catalyst - to de-buff the reapers, e.g. take down their shields to make a conventional victory possible. Then your ems rating would determine your losses from the ensuing battle. That could have provided the sort of catharsis and feel of victory that the original options did not. But it's all water under the bridge. I'm over it, and have moved on... to Andromeda.
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Post by Guardian on May 21, 2017 19:55:19 GMT
As for how I'd want Mass Effect to move forward: Return to Milky Way. Make ME3 non-canon. Explore the 99% of the Milky way no one has seen yet. Pretty much this....except fix the disaster that was the ME 3 "Red, blue, Refuse, or that other one" ending. Failing to do that, I'm with Iakus on this one.
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Post by LogicGunn on May 21, 2017 20:19:17 GMT
I absolutely want to continue the Andromeda story, explore more clusters in Andromeda, get to know the characters and develop Ryder (esp her relationship with her brother, mother and Jaal). The only way is up!
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Post by Zarzunabas on May 21, 2017 20:27:59 GMT
How it should continue?
Hopefully they will make a sequel that shows you the outcome of the decisions of ME:A. For example: Choosing Military Outposts in resulting in a different "society" than scientific outposts.
I personally think, that with the ending of ME:A they managed to create enough posibilites for a great sequel.
And please, for the love of (enter deity name here), give us the option to "remove" certain NPC´s *cough* Addison, Tann, Cora, Gil *cough* (Yes. I dislike Cora and Gil)
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Post by alanc9 on May 21, 2017 22:50:35 GMT
Wait a minute. I wasn't saying that all that many people really needed a Refuse option in the first place. It's one of those nice-to-have RP options which should be implemented if the budget allows. Though I'm taking people's arguments at face value, which may be a mistake. Saying that your problem is that "my Shepard would never use the Crucible in any of those ways" when you're really after a retcon of the situation around that choice is both intellectually dishonest and, more importantly, tactically stupid, since you might get what you're asking for rather than what you want. OTOH, a lot of posters are idiots. But yes, people did ask to have victory determined the way you say. And that's where the arguments happened. Like I said, that argument was controversial, while Shepard refusing in itself was not controversial. Refuse leading to victory would require everyone on both sides to be wrong about the military situation after months of experience. It's OK to ask for even more nonsense, but that argument didn't seem to have much traction. The big movement behind Refusal was specifically because the Catalyst's options were unacceptable to players. You think if he Crucible shut all the Reapers down Independence Day-style there's have been a big outcry of "My Shepard would NEVER do that!"? Does it really take a genius to understand this concept? Was Bioware really that blind to their audience? Making judgments about what the "big movement" really was about requires real data. I suppose we could fire up the Wayback Machine and start pulling up the old threads to review the arguments -- or are they archived someplace easier to look up? Anyway, I'm not sure we need to get too much further into this aspect, since this whole discussion is a tangent to the thread. My substantive point was that the moral-unacceptability and limited-RP arguments are conceptually distinct, and it's a mistake to make one if you mean the other. I get the impression you're not disagreeing with this, but then we just end up in a place where Bio conceded the limited-RP argument without conceding the moral-unacceptability argument. I think there were relatively more of the RP-limitation arguments than you do, but in the end that's not all that important. We could get into whether Bio was right about which argument they listened to, I guess. We could probably keep that debate going forever since it's just about the most fundamental disagreement we have about what RPGs are and, more importantly, ought to be. For the benefit of lurkers, I'll concede up front, again, that since ME had always been a series about avoiding difficult choices -- Virmire excepted -- the final choice wasn't a great fit for the series. So it's all about shooting the Catalyst triggering Refuse? Really? I'll take your word for that being the painful part for you guys. Shooting at a hologram is such a stupid thing to do that none of my Shepards ever attempted it; it's only thanks to this board that I know it did something.
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 21, 2017 22:52:56 GMT
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 21, 2017 23:17:17 GMT
A direct sequel to MEA set about 5 years later.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 22, 2017 4:00:03 GMT
So it's all about shooting the Catalyst triggering Refuse? Really? I'll take your word for that being the painful part for you guys. Shooting at a hologram is such a stupid thing to do that none of my Shepards ever attempted it; it's only thanks to this board that I know it did something. Yeah, I remember when I first read about it on Old BSN, and all I could think of was how hilarious it was that BioWare thought to add a trigger to that little random thing you can do. The fact that it caused outrage at all made it even better.
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Post by danielhungary on May 22, 2017 11:12:03 GMT
Mass Effect Universe is full of content and options to go forth with so buriyng the franchise would be the greatest loss for the fans and video gameing. A direct sequel for the Mass Effect Andromeda would be great but this time aiming for the "Masterpiece" title. And of course the "best game of the franchise" title as well.
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Post by Gelantious on May 22, 2017 11:26:01 GMT
Ignore MEA and make a new one that plays out in the milky way some time after the reaper war. Have no direct connection with anything from the original trilogy. Let players play any of the alien races, don't make the player some big shot like n7/spectre/pathfinder. Instead just be smaller no-name captain of a ship, lawless pirates, legal shipping, whatever and build some story from there. Nothing big to save the whole galaxy n what not, since nothing can top the original trilogy so don't even try. If anything then let the player and companions be a small cog in a bigger story that can span several games, also if they are going to let us continue with the same character in sequal games, then let us keep the companions. Don't repeat Liara/Jack.... Let us decide which companions we want, for example if we want to play a bad person then let us space the companion if we think s/he's worthless(Looking at you Cora and Liam).
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Post by Iakus on May 22, 2017 14:32:30 GMT
We could get into whether Bio was right about which argument they listened to, I guess. We could probably keep that debate going forever since it's just about the most fundamental disagreement we have about what RPGs are and, more importantly, ought to be. Well, Bioware wanted endings that would be talked about. That's exactly what they got. Right up the whatever. Not the specific trigger, but what it represents. Shooting the hologram was a way to vent frustration and anger. OR to demonstrate said frustration. It's like, I dunno, punching a heavy bag to work out frustration Rigging the Refuse ending to trigger when a player does that is like taking that heavy bag and letting all the sand and cloth out, leaving it useless. But at any rate, if Mass Effect is to go forward, ME3's ending has to be dealt with. Not simply run away from. It hangs like an albatross around the series and there has to be a serious discussion about it. Not a lecture on "art"
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 18:01:24 GMT
1.) Another ME game is basically a guarantee. 2.) A direct sequel is all but guaranteed at this point and that is an awesome thing. Lets face facts, BioWare will most likely never revisit the Milky Way. The ending of ME3 pinned them in such a tight corner that no matter what they do, they will inevitably piss off a large portion of the fanbase. They aren't gonna risk it neither will EA let them.
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Post by alanc9 on May 22, 2017 19:00:04 GMT
So it's all about shooting the Catalyst triggering Refuse? Really? I'll take your word for that being the painful part for you guys. Shooting at a hologram is such a stupid thing to do that none of my Shepards ever attempted it; it's only thanks to this board that I know it did something. Not the specific trigger, but what it represents. Shooting the hologram was a way to vent frustration and anger. OR to demonstrate said frustration. It's like, I dunno, punching a heavy bag to work out frustration Rigging the Refuse ending to trigger when a player does that is like taking that heavy bag and letting all the sand and cloth out, leaving it useless. That's clearer. But what would have happened if the EC was exactly the same except that shooting the kid did absolutely nothing? Feelings still hurt, hurt less, not hurt? "Dealt with" meaning what, exactly?
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Post by griffith82 on May 22, 2017 21:30:00 GMT
1.) Another ME game is basically a guarantee. 2.) A direct sequel is all but guaranteed at this point and that is an awesome thing. Lets face facts, BioWare will most likely never revisit the Milky Way. The ending of ME3 pinned them in such a tight corner that no matter what they do, they will inevitably piss off a large portion of the fanbase. They aren't gonna risk it neither will EA let them. Yeah going back to the MW is impossible without canonization of an ending,
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Post by KaiserShep on May 22, 2017 23:29:16 GMT
Not the specific trigger, but what it represents. Shooting the hologram was a way to vent frustration and anger. OR to demonstrate said frustration. It's like, I dunno, punching a heavy bag to work out frustration Rigging the Refuse ending to trigger when a player does that is like taking that heavy bag and letting all the sand and cloth out, leaving it useless. But at any rate, if Mass Effect is to go forward, ME3's ending has to be dealt with. Not simply run away from. It hangs like an albatross around the series and there has to be a serious discussion about it. Not a lecture on "art" The whole punching bag metaphor kind of makes this funnier somehow. I mean, come on. Does shooting the hologram really make people feel better? I guess all sorts of dumb things can be used as a pacifier, but that's why Buddha made hard liquor. I don't really agree that ME3's ending has to be dealt with, but let's say that they actually did address it directly and decided to go with Destroy exactly as it plays out in the trilogy's epilogue. Would you really feel better about it? I mean, the ending didn't change; they simply wiped out the other major world states.
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Post by duelli75 on May 28, 2017 12:44:38 GMT
Well, all anybody really wants, is a complete game and not being a "Beta-Tester". Still disappointed by Mac Walters, Mike Gamble and the likes who said:"Yeah, the game is ready to be released." Even in it's 1.07 state the game needs almost another year development time. Maybe they ran out of money? Anyways 40 million dollars would have been barely enough if MEA had none of that open world crap. @bioware Pick up at least 80 million dollars, if you want the sequel to be as open world as MEA was. Looking at the inflation rate, make it +100 Millions, assuming it'll take another 5 years until we see the next Mass Effect game.
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Post by LilTIM on May 28, 2017 17:51:46 GMT
If Dylan ends up being another sci-fi franchise, then EAware might decide to discharge Mass Effect from flagship status, to ship of the line or corvette - that is a secondary role. Being there means less financial support and if you don't do well, you are dismantled for parts to use in better perfoming ships.
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Post by alanc9 on May 28, 2017 20:07:59 GMT
Well, all anybody really wants, is a complete game and not being a "Beta-Tester". Still disappointed by Mac Walters, Mike Gamble and the likes who said:"Yeah, the game is ready to be released." Even in it's 1.07 state the game needs almost another year development time. Maybe they ran out of money? Anyways 40 million dollars would have been barely enough if MEA had none of that open world crap. @bioware Pick up at least 80 million dollars, if you want the sequel to be as open world as MEA was. Looking at the inflation rate, make it +100 Millions, assuming it'll take another 5 years until we see the next Mass Effect game. An 80 million budget? You'd need to massively outsell any other ME game to break even.
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Post by guanxi on May 28, 2017 23:58:19 GMT
If we get more Andromeda games please let's skip to the good part and set it 600 years later so there's actually something worth visiting like the new Asari capital, etc. instead of 5 more variations on Arizona. Have all the original Mass Effect species including the Quarians, etc. have arrived and colonized Helios and beyond centuries ago to bring the new setting up to par with the original one. Let's have 600 years worth of new lore to explore and to provide context and flavor to the setting which could be expanded in extended universe material - books, games, comics, movies, etc.
I want to see real geo-political conflicts and alliances emerging between the Mass Effect species in the new setting and let the player have genuine influence to shape the state of the new world and resolve some of these conflicts as Spectres under a new council. Really flesh out the premise of each world having it's own story to explore at our own pace and to resolve how we see fit in radically different ways using a faction system like New Vegas. Drop the Kett and the notion of united good guys vs. the singular great evil. It's really dated and completely unnecessary. There's no room for good guys vs. Bad guys anymore in modern fiction, only guys with different perspectives and who's perspectives you share should be down to you to take sides not enforced from on high. We're supposed to be role-playing are we not?
Finally, it should be possible to fail every quest, let every squadmate die, let our actions have genuinely pronounced consequences otherwise there are no stakes and no real sense of dramatic tension or player agency as we found with MEA and other BioWare games of recent memory.
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Post by decafhigh on May 29, 2017 0:38:17 GMT
If we get more Andromeda games please let's skip to the good part and set it 600 years later so there's actually something worth visiting like the new Asari capital, etc. instead of 5 more variations on Arizona. Have all the original Mass Effect species including the Quarians, etc. have arrived and colonized Helios and beyond centuries ago to bring the new setting up to par with the original one. Let's have 600 years worth of new lore to explore and to provide context and flavor to the setting which could be expanded in extended universe material - books, games, comics, movies, etc.
I want to see real geo-political conflicts and alliances emerging between the Mass Effect species in the new setting and let the player have genuine influence to shape the state of the new world and resolve some of these conflicts as Spectres under a new council. Really flesh out the premise of each world having it's own story to explore at our own pace and to resolve how we see fit in radically different ways using a faction system like New Vegas. Drop the Kett and the notion of united good guys vs. the singular great evil. It's really dated and completely unnecessary. There's no room for good guys vs. Bad guys anymore in modern fiction, only guys with different perspectives and who's perspectives you share should be down to you to take sides not enforced from on high. We're supposed to be role-playing are we not?
Finally, it should be possible to fail every quest, let every squadmate die, let our actions have genuinely pronounced consequences otherwise there are no stakes and no real sense of dramatic tension or player agency as we found with MEA and other BioWare games of recent memory.
Agreed. A couple of good DLC's can wrap up the Ryder story, the Kett, and the AI's initial settlement of Heleus. MEA2 I'd rather jump into the future enough for the planets to be something other than barren wastelands and for civilization to have reached a point of being interesting again.
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Post by simit on May 29, 2017 0:51:34 GMT
For me ME:A was a missed opportunity, i enjoyed the game an have multiple playthroughs an no doubt will have more at some point.
My opinion on tthe direction it shoulda took will no doubt be unpopular here lol but i truly believe instead of ME:A they shoulda went with ME:O ( Mass Effect Online ), a ME game basically of the same idea as Destiny / Divison an tbh i still hope for a ME game like that
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 29, 2017 1:31:27 GMT
For me ME:A was a missed opportunity, i enjoyed the game an have multiple playthroughs an no doubt will have more at some point. My opinion on tthe direction it shoulda took will no doubt be unpopular here lol but i truly believe instead of ME:A they shoulda went with ME:O ( Mass Effect Online ), a ME game basically of the same idea as Destiny / Divison an tbh i still hope for a ME game like that Most likely an unpopular opinion in deed lol. how would you suggest they go about it? This idea would really carry much more risk than reward as it goes vs the core formula of mass effect. Going into an online focused world like destiny/division would be a completely foreign thing to probably most of the fan base, and I'd assume most would be questioning Biowares thinking right from the get go cause they're changing something that doesn't need changed but just refined. I can tell you myself, I'd be vs it simply cause there are other games that are like that, and dialogue/choices will get downsized cause of it. Not to mention the grind and the consequences of not having any longevity to the endgame which would really hurt the game if they missed out on it. the only way I'd ever see this happening is if they got two separate studios doing mass effect, one for the core fans, core formula, what they're used to. The other could then be used to experiment on the idea without as much backlash cause they at least have the other studio as a safeguard making a game people are used to, and honestly, there's a reason EA has been expanding bioware into multiple studios. Simply to make more games, put extra manpower on a specific game if the need is there (Dylan project is getting that treatment right now)' and it can let them experiment with different styles that people accustomed to bioware isn't used to. It's why I'm baffled that some see an issue if bioware ever makes a non RPG game, I don't think it matters if they've at least got other studios making rpg games, the extra studios let's them try various things. Look at Ubisoft soft, square anix, etc etc and you'll see they make various games in a variety of genres because of the luxury of multiple studios. im still vs it personally, but I think if they really thought it out they could give it a go to see what happens as you never know if it can be a hit or not unless you try, but I'd expect a lot of people being cautious around it and Bioware HAS to at least have another studio making a mass effect that they're used to, cause if not and the ME destiny hybrid fails, what other options are there besides playing what they've already played? Or going to dragon age anyways.
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Post by themikefest on May 29, 2017 2:23:18 GMT
What could have really nailed it for me is a 4th option that would let you use the crucible - or some interface with the catalyst - to de-buff the reapers, e.g. take down their shields to make a conventional victory possible. Then your ems rating would determine your losses from the ensuing battle. The reapers would still win by numbers alone.
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Post by duskwanderer on May 29, 2017 3:07:30 GMT
A sequel to ME:A is fine, they just need to do it right. The problem with ME:A wasn't it's plot, but it's execution with shoddy animation, poorly designed visuals and poor vocal direction. In short, mechanical issues.
I'd like to see the story pick up about a year or two after the original (For form's sake, I'm using the standard names). The Heleus Cluster is beginning to live, people are being brought out of cryo. Both Ryders are sent to investigate some new Remnant tech and ways to combat the Scourge. While there, they come across the kett. Go from there, provided you don't kill one of the siblings. That's a cliche.
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Post by auu on May 29, 2017 3:10:05 GMT
I want a sequel to ME3. Pick Destroy as the ending, make a game that takes place a hundred years later.
Done.
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