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Post by goishen on May 20, 2017 1:44:08 GMT
Well if all these folks really believed that, then I suppose I can understand them causing an uprising. These obviously aren't the best and brightest if you catch my meaning. No one could have predicted the scourge, but if everyone just expected sunshine and rainbows it makes everything even less believable to me that these folks survived arriving in Heleus and the situation they found themselves in. If the whole damn AI arrived with basically no plan aside from "it'll just work itself out", yeah the Nexus and everyone aboard would have been dead within weeks of arriving. I'm damned suprised everyone didn't go all Lord Of The Flies when they got there. Sure, top physicists shooting each other in the head, 'cause hey.. No rules. The story behind the mutiny was so convoluted that I was just like, "Okay, okay, I get it they rebelled. Knock off bad guys. Got it."
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Post by dreman999 on May 20, 2017 1:45:54 GMT
No. The game states that the mutiny happened after site 2 of the colony on eos failed. ... I don't remember that. Not saying you are wrong, just that I don't recall that being mentioned. That is of course a part of the problem the game is never real clear or in depth about what exactly happened and when. I suppose because they put it all in a book instead, which is of course another part of the problem. Even after this thread I'm still not clear on exactly what the exiles grievances were. Were they just mad and fed up? Did they want people woken from stasis (like the group in game)? Did they want to try and go colonize somewhere? I have no idea. Just they didn't like whatever it was that Tann and the leaders were or maybe were not doing. So they are gone now. That's about as much of it as I got from the game. It was mentioned after you dealt with starting up eos. And the exiles make it clear why they left. You ask them they tell you. and it's more bad management and failure then just not liking tann. tann just made thing worse.
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Post by dreman999 on May 20, 2017 1:46:44 GMT
Well if all these folks really believed that, then I suppose I can understand them causing an uprising. These obviously aren't the best and brightest if you catch my meaning. No one could have predicted the scourge, but if everyone just expected sunshine and rainbows it makes everything even less believable to me that these folks survived arriving in Heleus and the situation they found themselves in. If the whole damn AI arrived with basically no plan aside from "it'll just work itself out", yeah the Nexus and everyone aboard would have been dead within weeks of arriving. I'm damned suprised everyone didn't go all Lord Of The Flies when they got there. Sure, top physicists shooting each other in the head, 'cause hey.. No rules. The story behind the mutiny was so convoluted that I was just like, "Okay, okay, I get it they rebelled. Knock off bad guys. Got it." Not really. It's just an angry mob get worse and worse.
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Post by dm04 on May 20, 2017 10:45:36 GMT
From what I just read on the last 2 pages makes the whole "uprising plot device" even worse.
It is still based on pure unchecked stupidity of astronomical proportions.
1) The leaders in MW screwed up BIG to let such people aboard 2) The leaders in MW screwed even more selling this whole stuff as "rainbow and sunshine with no problems" 3) The people who boarded the Nexus are even more stupid believing in 2) 4) And surely all the people aboard the Nexus are highly incompetent and stupid because they do not get it working for months
I wonder when "writers" finaly realize "stupidity" (no matter from where) is the worst plot device ever.
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Post by Reorte on May 20, 2017 10:48:43 GMT
From what I just read on the last 2 pages makes the whole "uprising plot device" even worse. It is still based on pure unchecked stupidity of astronomical proportions. 1) The leaders in MW screwed up BIG to let such people aboard 2) The leaders in MW screwed even more selling this whole stuff as "rainbow and sunshine with no problems" 3) The people who boarded the Nexus are even more stupid believing in 2) 4) And surely all the people aboard the Nexus are highly incompetent and stupid because they do not get it working for months I wonder when "writers" finaly realize "stupidity" (no matter from where) is the worst plot device ever. Let's face it, it was really just "right, we need some reason for another faction to fight, and preferably a bit of good old Milky Way races, any idea will do." All these details mean that whilst I like Andromeda I don't love it. Would it have made more sense if the AI had been infiltrated by criminals looking to get set up in a new place with no competition?
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Post by dm04 on May 20, 2017 11:17:09 GMT
Let's face it, it was really just "right, we need some reason for another faction to fight, and preferably a bit of good old Milky Way races, any idea will do." All these details mean that whilst I like Andromeda I don't love it. Would it have made more sense if the AI had been infiltrated by criminals looking to get set up in a new place with no competition? It would, but they would wait till things work smoothly. I think, they could also tell us Nexus is beyond repair, there is just a skeleton crew trying their best, but everyone leaves. And there, while on a planet, they can split in two factions. And then when Ryder rides in and makes the Nexus work again, the loyalists ride back in.
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Post by goishen on May 20, 2017 11:32:12 GMT
Let's face it, it was really just "right, we need some reason for another faction to fight, and preferably a bit of good old Milky Way races, any idea will do." All these details mean that whilst I like Andromeda I don't love it. Would it have made more sense if the AI had been infiltrated by criminals looking to get set up in a new place with no competition? It would, but they would wait till things work smoothly. I think, they could also tell us Nexus is beyond repair, there is just a skeleton crew trying their best, but everyone leaves. And there, while on a planet, they can split in two factions. And then when Ryder rides in and makes the Nexus work again, the loyalists ride back in. That story makes too much sense.
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Post by dm04 on May 20, 2017 11:43:22 GMT
That story makes too much sense. ^^
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Post by LogicGunn on May 20, 2017 12:00:58 GMT
It's in the book. Seems to come down to not having a solid contingency for death of leadership and the AI seriously not vetting it's members properly for strength of character and ability to carry on when it hits the fan.
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Post by jclosed on May 20, 2017 12:10:05 GMT
From what I just read on the last 2 pages makes the whole "uprising plot device" even worse. It is still based on pure unchecked stupidity of astronomical proportions. 1) The leaders in MW screwed up BIG to let such people aboard 2) The leaders in MW screwed even more selling this whole stuff as "rainbow and sunshine with no problems" 3) The people who boarded the Nexus are even more stupid believing in 2) 4) And surely all the people aboard the Nexus are highly incompetent and stupid because they do not get it working for months I wonder when "writers" finaly realize "stupidity" (no matter from where) is the worst plot device ever. Well - there are some answers to that: 1) The leaders in MW screwed up BIG to let such people aboard You can do all kind of psychological test, but you never know how people react in an extreme hazard situation. It is safe to assume most of the colonists where stable enough at the time of recruiting. And there are also hints that long Cryosleep/Stasis causes light brain damage or changes. Enough to make stable people less stable if it's left untreated. Also - do not underestimate the power of "group think" or crowd hysteria. It can push perfectly normal people to extreme standpoints (look at this forum for example) 2) The leaders in MW screwed even more selling this whole stuff as "rainbow and sunshine with no problems" Nope - They have never done that. They have said it would be hard and difficult, but not impossible. The point is that people where expecting colonization would be hard, but they would have at least a stable starting platform for support (Nexus). Then they wake up in a station in complete disarray, extreme limited resources, lots of damage, whole sectors in dark because there is not enough power, no way out to other planets because they are not habitable, no decent organization because all original leaders are dead, and the present leaders are completely unprepared. In short - they expected (and where prepared for) a difficult task on the planets, but no complete disaster on their core home platform. 3) The people who boarded the Nexus are even more stupid believing in 2) You mean the Hyperion? They where not expecting "rainbow and sunshine with no problems", but they where expecting at least a somewhat functional core platform. They must have starting to get doubts when they saw that the Nexus was not finished, and the docking procedure was started by automatic systems. In fact Cora noticed that the station is unfinished and tells it to everyone. There is nothing wrong with having some hope it will turn out to be not that bad, but be prepared to adapt is it is worse than you hope for. And that is exactly what happens. If you mean the personal on the Nexus.. Well I have explained that already. They knew it would be tough, but they where prepared to work hard to realize their targets. Not unlike the shuttle astronauts of our present decade. Those astronauts know things can go wrong (an they have gone wrong, because two shuttles where destroyed), but they still take the risk. So, why should it not be the same for the Nexus personal? People take risks for their ideals you know. 4) And surely all the people aboard the Nexus are highly incompetent and stupid because they do not get it working for months Come on. With extremely limited resources and power, a big part of the workforce gone because of the rebellions (that mostly where workforce people) leaving the Nexus and incompetent (or at least inexperienced) leadership? And on top of that no chance to get enough construction materials because you can't mine planets that are inhabitable with only an handful left-over workers (that are also needed to keep the Nexus running). They tried on Eos two times, but failed and where forced to put even more people back in Cryosleep/Stasis, because the resources where even lower after those failures (and thereby limiting their workforce even more). How do you think they would have be able to finish anything at all under those circumstances? Magic? The way things happened does sound very plausible to me, but that's only my personal opinion of course.
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Post by sherlockholmes on May 20, 2017 12:57:20 GMT
And Exchange. Since the KOTORs there's been a criminal element to the story which makes no sense plotwise. In the KOTORs and the Trilogy, some force was intent on wiping out the galaxy. All of it. Both G0t0, the head of the Exchange, and the Illusive Man give very convoluted and conflicting stories as to why they justify working against societies that are trying to fend off the ultimate evil. No matter how they say it, they are helping the very force that seeks to obliterate them. As has been said in a previous post, the writers needed something besides the ultimate evil for players to fight, to provide alternative and artificial but more nuanced conflicts within the overarching plotline. This plays out in other ways as well. In KOTOR II, you spend a lot of time convincing the powers that be that there is a threat despite ample objective evidence of that threat. The same can be said for ME:3. With Reapers landing all over the place, the power structure needs convincing that there is a threat? Anyway, that's my take on it. I haven't read the books; in fact, didn't even know books had been written. Many other posts in this thread have written extensively about how reading the books helps make sense of things. Frankly, I got lost keeping track of all the disaffected in ME:A: salvagers, exiles, renegades, rebels, criminals, etc., which become important when faced with those dichotomous moral questions as they have an impact on subsequent events.
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Post by dreman999 on May 20, 2017 20:58:07 GMT
Before people go on this with this we have to cover why the trip happened in the first place comparing what was planned vs what eventually happen. This trip was never planned to have this many people go on it. It was never planned at the start to have 20000 of each major race to send a ark each to another galexy. It was just going be a much smaller crew. That all changed with the benifactor came into play. I don't want to get into spoilers here but the entire initiative change in its goal. It was now about getting as much people as they can for a life boat. Vetting for this is going to be lax.
And as I said before, it was a series of falters and human nature that cause the up rising. It easy to under stand what happened.
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