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Post by KaiserShep on May 24, 2017 16:41:33 GMT
Maybe we should have been given an option to say that Pathfinder protocol dictate that I don't care about this, sort of like Shepard and Ashley.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on May 24, 2017 17:02:59 GMT
As long as they leave me alone, I extend the same courtesy to them. I did the same with Suvi in replying "believe what you want". In reality I never had that conversation even once in my life. People don't talk about religion or it's absence where I live. It never comes up unless you ask for it. It is really all about courtesy. I never bring my belief or lack thereof up in conversation unless it is a friendly and familiar group, and then if there is argument it is at an academic level and stays friendly and stops when it gets uncomfortable for anybody. When it is worn like a badge, like any group that wants to be special and have a badge that says YAY MY GROUP DEFINITELY NOT YOURS, the snarky analytical well-informed and educated atheist with a Catholic secondary education and a degree in Philosophy comes out. No one on this forum would recognize that personality of mine.... Amirite?
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 17:11:34 GMT
I never bring my belief or lack thereof up in conversation unless it is a friendly and familiar group, and then if there is argument it is at an academic level and stays friendly and stops when it gets uncomfortable for anybody.
To tell the truth, I don't even know if my brother and family is religious. They don't go to church, that's for certain, but we never talk about it. My parents went to church and they must have noticed something when their younger son choose to sleep in on sundays instead of going with them. But never ever did they say a word, let alone called me out. They always encouraged me to think for myself and it was my father actually, who brought me on my path. By taking me to the museum of natural history, showing me all the dinosaur skeletons and telling me they are millions and millions of years old. Science classes at school did the rest, since in our country there never was "teach the controversy" but science as it is. Not even in the early 70ies.
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kalasaurus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 519 Likes: 1,171
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Post by kalasaurus on May 24, 2017 17:15:16 GMT
That Suvi conversation was fucking dreadful, what kind of person says "God can't exist" to someone who's religious? Yeah, that was annoying. You can either share in her beliefs or be an ass. No "oh that's interesting" middle ground if Ryder didn't agree.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 24, 2017 17:16:51 GMT
Oddly the I feel the same way option doesn't actually sound like Ryder necessarily feels the same way.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 17:18:06 GMT
Yeah, that was annoying. You can either share in her beliefs or be an ass. No "oh that's interesting" middle ground if Ryder didn't agree. How's "you're welcome to your believes" and "I like diversity on my team" being an ass? It's not the options that make me cringe over this conversation, but a general problem of the game. Given how long it's intended to be, your team and certain NPCs spill their personal beans much too soon.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 17:20:30 GMT
What I found interesting about talking to Suvi about her views is it felt like it was foreshadowing what we discover later in the game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kalasaurus on May 24, 2017 17:21:04 GMT
Yeah, that was annoying. You can either share in her beliefs or be an ass. No "oh that's interesting" middle ground if Ryder didn't agree. How's "you're welcome to your believes" and "I like diversity on my team" being an ass? It's not the options that make me cringe over this conversation, but a general problem of the game. Given how long it's intended to be, your team and certain NPCs spill their personal beans much too soon. No, I was referring to the "there's no god" comment. Ryder can say that, sure, but I would have rather been like "oh that's nice" and back away. A lot of people don't care to get into religious debate.
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Post by kalasaurus on May 24, 2017 17:36:24 GMT
To clarify: I'm an agnostic myself, and don't really care if people believe or don't. I grew up in a pretty religiously diverse background with a Hindu dad from India and a Christian American mom, and sort of came to the conclusion that there is no right or wrong answer on this kind of thing (if there is some higher power). It's better to live and let live. Ryder did tell Suvi she's welcome to her beliefs, at least, but I would have rather bypassed the debate altogether. It's just a small complaint to the mechanics of the dialogue itself, nothing major.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 17:45:00 GMT
It's better to live and let live. Ryder did tell Suvi she's welcome to her beliefs, at least, but I would have rather bypassed the debate altogether. It's just a small complaint to the mechanics of the dialogue itself, nothing major. I would rather have bypassed many conversations. At least at the time they happened. Virtually every crew mate rubs all their personal secrets into your face at the first convenience. There's no development of them starting to trust you, to tell you more about them, their personalities, believes, whatever. Makes characters like Lexi look like some Asari Mengele, if you follow her conversation about Kett corpses and a living specimen being better. At the frigging first opportunity you get to talk to her. It's anticlimatic, unrealistic and ham fisted. That's the problem I have with conversations in general.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 24, 2017 17:49:26 GMT
It's better to live and let live. Ryder did tell Suvi she's welcome to her beliefs, at least, but I would have rather bypassed the debate altogether. It's just a small complaint to the mechanics of the dialogue itself, nothing major. I would rather have bypassed many conversations. At least at the time they happened. Virtually every crew mate rubs all their personal secrets into your face at the first convenience. There's no development of them starting to trust you, to tell you more about them, their personalities, believes, whatever. Makes characters like Lexi look like some Asari Mengele, if you follow her conversation about Kett corpses and a living specimen being better. At the frigging first opportunity you get to talk to her. It's anticlimatic, unrealistic and ham fisted. That's the problem I have with conversations in general. And Godwin's Law strikes.
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Post by kalasaurus on May 24, 2017 17:50:33 GMT
It's better to live and let live. Ryder did tell Suvi she's welcome to her beliefs, at least, but I would have rather bypassed the debate altogether. It's just a small complaint to the mechanics of the dialogue itself, nothing major. I would rather have bypassed many conversations. At least at the time they happened. Virtually every crew mate rubs all their personal secrets into your face at the first convenience. There's no development of them starting to trust you, to tell you more about them, their personalities, believes, whatever. Makes characters like Lexi look like some Asari Mengele, if you follow her conversation about Kett corpses and a living specimen being better. At the frigging first opportunity you get to talk to her. It's anticlimatic, unrealistic and ham fisted. That's the problem I have with conversations in general. That happened a lot, yeah. Like when Gil says "I don't let many people in" in his first conversation with Ryder, or Peebee spells out that she has commitment issues every time she opens her mouth. It's not realistic, I agree.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 24, 2017 17:54:29 GMT
I would rather have bypassed many conversations. At least at the time they happened. Virtually every crew mate rubs all their personal secrets into your face at the first convenience. There's no development of them starting to trust you, to tell you more about them, their personalities, believes, whatever. Makes characters like Lexi look like some Asari Mengele, if you follow her conversation about Kett corpses and a living specimen being better. At the frigging first opportunity you get to talk to her. It's anticlimatic, unrealistic and ham fisted. That's the problem I have with conversations in general. And Godwin's Law strikes. I scanned the Tempest up and down and found no gas chambers. Maybe Hahne-Kedar had them recalled before the Initiative set off.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 17:56:05 GMT
That happened a lot, yeah. Like when Gil says "I don't let many people in" in his first conversation with Ryder, or Peebee spells out that she has commitment issues every time she opens her mouth. It's not realistic, I agree. It's like an AA meeting really. Hi, I'm Lexi and I'd love to disect Kett. Living ones if possible Hi, I'm Suvi and I'm religious Hi, I'm Gil and I'm gay Hi, I'm Vetra and I raised my baby sister against all odds Hi, I'm Kallo and I have photographic memory Hi, I'm Liam and I'm the most boring person you ever meet (my invention, of course) But you get the drift.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 24, 2017 17:56:56 GMT
To be fair, AA is far more cultish (being a cult and all).
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on May 24, 2017 17:59:16 GMT
That happened a lot, yeah. Like when Gil says "I don't let many people in" in his first conversation with Ryder, or Peebee spells out that she has commitment issues every time she opens her mouth. It's not realistic, I agree. It's "tell, don't show" taken to the next level. The characters tell you about their personalities instead of you finding out during the story. And the Codex tells you whether you're friends or not.
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Post by djbare on May 24, 2017 18:10:22 GMT
One thing I do like about Suvi's convo, if you straight answer yes she is deluding herself, she agrees.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 18:10:44 GMT
It's "tell, don't show" taken to the next level. The characters tell you about their personalities instead of you finding out during the story. And the Codex tells you whether you're friends or not. To be fair, I exempted Drack and Peebee for a reason. Peebee, well at least you get to know her a bit in the first mission and through her appearances on other planets instead of her instantly spilling the beans. Drack, takes a lot of time to get to what makes him tick. Only when he talks about Kesh and how she became his granddaughter. That's how it should be and that's why I find these characters vastly more interesting than the others.
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on May 24, 2017 18:16:14 GMT
It's "tell, don't show" taken to the next level. The characters tell you about their personalities instead of you finding out during the story. And the Codex tells you whether you're friends or not. To be fair, I exempted Drack and Peebee for a reason. Peebee, well at least you get to know her a bit in the first mission and through her appearances on other planets instead of her instantly spilling the beans. Drack, takes a lot of time to get to what makes him tick. Only when he talks about Kesh and how she became his granddaughter. That's how it should be and that's why I find these characters vastly more interesting than the others. Yes, good point, about Drack especially. It takes time to really get to know him, and I found it really rewarding. Wish more of the crew were like that.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 24, 2017 18:33:11 GMT
@op: Well, who knows. I mean, it's not that in the trilogy, they "hid" the "creator vs. created" theme anywhere in order to pull it out later, they just slapped some random thing on the ending last minute. So who knows, it may turn out that in Andromeda 3, it turns out the series was about pyjaks vs. space hamsters all along. Could be anything.
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timebean
N3
It's just a game, folks...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on May 24, 2017 18:48:52 GMT
The new religion = seeing agendas everywhere. Do agendas have wings? Or just capes? Are they accepting donations? When it rains, am I being kissed by agendas? When I get an itch on my arm, is it an agenda reminding me to do something? When the end of the world comes, will agendas be angry at me for not believing in them? Thank god I'm an atheist!
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 19:37:25 GMT
I would rather have bypassed many conversations. At least at the time they happened. Virtually every crew mate rubs all their personal secrets into your face at the first convenience. There's no development of them starting to trust you, to tell you more about them, their personalities, believes, whatever. Makes characters like Lexi look like some Asari Mengele, if you follow her conversation about Kett corpses and a living specimen being better. At the frigging first opportunity you get to talk to her. It's anticlimatic, unrealistic and ham fisted. That's the problem I have with conversations in general. Ryder already knew Liam and Cora (original members of Pathfinder team), also Lexi. Vetra's connections and ability to get things done were demonstrated in the opening scene with her. I didn't find the quick familiarity especially off-putting - these people are in fairly unique circumstances. A lot of the NPCs Ryder can talk with early on offer questions about why they joined the Ai; it's kind of like a special club. Also, you (Ryder) drive the dialogue wheel, so - you can take it at whatever pace feels best to you.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 19:44:26 GMT
I just wanted to mention that the conversation with Suvi is not the only place where spirituality is brought up.
If Vederia becomes the new asari pathfinder, Ryder can have a conversation with her about her beliefs. There's also the angaran reincarnation belief, and an example of some artifact bringing forth supposed past-life memories. You're left to draw your own conclusions about that - the situation is not much different from Javik's ability to "read" people and even glean information about former occupants of the Normandy, supposedly having to do with biological markers.
I see it all as world-building, and opportunities for Ryder to express their own feelings about these matters.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 19:50:43 GMT
Ryder already knew Liam and Cora (original members of Pathfinder team), also Lexi. Yeah, sure, Lexi only woke them up and introduced them to their sibling being in a coma. That's also why the first thing Ryder says when meeting Lexi on the Tempest: "You're not Harry..." followed by Lexi's "did the blue give it away?" Which points to surprisingly meeting a total stranger. Sure, you can explain anything away if you're into mental acrobatics.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 19:54:08 GMT
Ryder already knew Liam and Cora (original members of Pathfinder team), also Lexi. Yeah, sure, Lexi only woke them up and introduced them to their sibling being in a coma. That's also why the first thing Ryder says when meeting Lexi on the Tempest: "You're not Harry..." followed by Lexi's "did the blue give it away?" Which points to surprisingly meeting a total stranger. Sure, you can explain anything away if you're into mental acrobatics. Well, if you really need to go there... Maybe you can help me understand how it's okay to ask complete strangers why they came to Andromeda, but some of the conversations with crew members are premature (if that's the right term here).
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