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Post by zipzap2000 on May 24, 2017 5:52:39 GMT
Was this the hidden plot behind the now defunct Mass Effect Andromeda franchise?
(I will assume you have played the game and be vague but there may be very mild spoilers)
As we know BioWare often hide these sorts of things in order to point them out later.
Creator vs Created for example.
It was the hidden theme that would eventually become the entire point of the game. Everything leads back to 'Creator vs Created' and the Catalyst logic.
In Mass Effect Andromeda we are introduced to the concept of science and religion intertwined, on several occasions.
First through Suvi who offers you the choice to be an atheist and later through others.
Angaran reincarnation is presented and then debunked vaguely enough to leave it a valid explanation, you can be dismissive of this. Asari melding and sharing memories is also brought in at this point and romancing PeeBee is almost like one of those spiritual stoner scenes from a send up of the 1970's.
We also have the question of the Angara themselves, Jaals reaction to spoilery details and the question you should have asked yourselves; Do Angara have souls and does a soul even matter if they don't? What ctural shifts will this cause?
And of course the Kett, who have tied the science behind genetics to a religion not unlike the Qun. The generic evil religious types.
Is the overall message of Mass Effect Andromeda that science and religion are incompatible with one another and you should choose a side?
If yes is this yet more influence from the left wing of politics creeping into entertainment?
And have we dodged a bullet with the game on hiatus?
Let me know in the comments section below.
This is ZipZap Zip, signing off.
*Lifts Ryncol*
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Post by voltangclan on May 24, 2017 6:11:58 GMT
I know souls don't exist because ebay shut down the bidding on mine.
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Post by kino on May 24, 2017 7:01:15 GMT
hah. "Now defunct". hah. I know souls don't exist because ebay shut down the bidding on mine. Ebay...bunch of assholes, amirite? A persons soul should be at least the bidding price.
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Post by isaidlunch on May 24, 2017 7:04:00 GMT
That Suvi conversation was fucking dreadful, what kind of person says "God can't exist" to someone who's religious?
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Post by scrub on May 24, 2017 7:05:38 GMT
That Suvi conversation was fucking dreadful, what kind of person says "God can't exist" to someone who's religious? teenagers who just discovered atheism?
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Post by Serza on May 24, 2017 7:27:54 GMT
Choose one?
I thought the entire point of Suvi's explanation was that you can be a scientist and still believe.
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Post by Ahriman on May 24, 2017 7:47:14 GMT
As we know BioWare often hide these sorts of things in order to point them out later. Creator vs Created for example. It was the hidden theme that would eventually become the entire point of the game. Don't tell me you don't know that Bioware had no idea how trilogy ends when they were doing ME1? Or are we playing "let's pretend" here?
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 24, 2017 8:11:48 GMT
As we know BioWare often hide these sorts of things in order to point them out later. Creator vs Created for example. It was the hidden theme that would eventually become the entire point of the game. Don't tell me you don't know that Bioware had no idea how trilogy ends when they were doing ME1? Or are we playing "let's pretend" here? Quiet.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 8:25:05 GMT
I agree that it's building up to something, but I believe that something to be a Christmas special DLC where we're going to have the Santa Claus discussion with Suvi.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 8:35:13 GMT
People really need to see the God Suvi mentioned with an eye detached from our reality. The debate was more along the line of "is there a superior intelligence that through science operates our universe in a orderly and rational manner or are we left to the chaos and randomness of things getting created for no apparent reason?". Another way to see at the question would be "Does the Universe have a rational mind?".
These are serious questions that science can't dismiss yet at this point, the God of Suvi doesn't seem to like a dogmatic tyrant that judge our behaviours but more like an intelligence or "force" that is beyond this petty concerns and is more focused in keeping a balance of its creation operating for the preservation of what was created.
I wouldn't define that type of belief as "religion" more like scientist spiritualism. If we admit that science is the dominion of rationality and the physical reality follow the rational laws of science then maybe it's not so unreasonable that those rational natural laws have a rational motive or intelligence behind it. I have met plenty of scientists that can accept "God" or a Superior Intelligence if put in this terms.
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 24, 2017 8:50:15 GMT
The God of Suvi.
I can see a market for that one.
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 24, 2017 8:51:33 GMT
hah. "Now defunct". hah. I know souls don't exist because ebay shut down the bidding on mine. Ebay...bunch of assholes, amirite? A persons soul should be at least the bidding price. What is this hah without yah?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 9:34:55 GMT
The God of Suvi. I can see a market for that one. I meant her personal interpretation of God.
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Post by Psychevore on May 24, 2017 9:41:32 GMT
People really need to see the God Suvi mentioned with an eye detached from our reality. The debate was more along the line of "is there a superior intelligence that through science operates our universe in a orderly and rational manner or are we left to the chaos and randomness of things getting created for no apparent reason?". Another way to see at the question would be "Does the Universe have a rational mind?". These are serious questions that science can't dismiss yet at this point, the God of Suvi doesn't seem to like a dogmatic tyrant that judge our behaviours but more like an intelligence or "force" that is beyond this petty concerns and is more focused in keeping a balance of its creation operating for the preservation of what was created. I wouldn't define that type of belief as "religion" more like scientist spiritualism. If we admit that science is the dominion of rationality and the physical reality follow the rational laws of science then maybe it's not so unreasonable that those rational natural laws have a rational motive or intelligence behind it. I have met plenty of scientists that can accept "God" or a Superior Intelligence if put in this terms. Where does Suvi's God come from? She's a scientist for fuck's sake, she should know her stance on God is really problematic. She only opens up new problems on who created God and then we need to answer who created that god, etc, etc, etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 9:54:00 GMT
People really need to see the God Suvi mentioned with an eye detached from our reality. The debate was more along the line of "is there a superior intelligence that through science operates our universe in a orderly and rational manner or are we left to the chaos and randomness of things getting created for no apparent reason?". Another way to see at the question would be "Does the Universe have a rational mind?". These are serious questions that science can't dismiss yet at this point, the God of Suvi doesn't seem to like a dogmatic tyrant that judge our behaviours but more like an intelligence or "force" that is beyond this petty concerns and is more focused in keeping a balance of its creation operating for the preservation of what was created. I wouldn't define that type of belief as "religion" more like scientist spiritualism. If we admit that science is the dominion of rationality and the physical reality follow the rational laws of science then maybe it's not so unreasonable that those rational natural laws have a rational motive or intelligence behind it. I have met plenty of scientists that can accept "God" or a Superior Intelligence if put in this terms. Where does Suvi's God come from? She's a scientist for fuck's sake, she should know her stance on God is really problematic. She only opens up new problems on who created God and then we need to answer who created that god, etc, etc, etc. Science and Spirituality aren't mutually exclusive. The problem arise when you get a dogmatic view of science as if it was a religion in itself. Ultimately we can't answer all our questions but we can have intuitions towards certain conclusions by seeing rational patterns all over us. In the end we can't yet determine scientifically the existence of God as we can't determine its non-existence. People claiming that a Superior Intelligence doesn't exists are for what concern me in the same boat of those that are dead set on believing that It exists at all costs. However the question of the existance of God is ultimately secondary. The real question is "Is the Universe operating randomly or it operates with a rationality?". I personally believe in science and rationality so that the thought that our Universe operates on randomness and chance (without any clear goal) is simply unbearable for my mind. I like to consider this scientist spirituality. My father who was a scientist (biologist) and a spiritual person he used to say to me two things: "An hardcore atheist scientist is not different from a religious fanatic as both take for granted something they both can't demonstrate scientifically" "Forget the Church and its dogmas, scientists are doing actual theology (the study of the nature of God), we study how the Universe operated and operates in the physical world through science and rationality. If there is a God out there we are getting to It by studying its tools and "fingerprints" left all over the Universe". The last sentence used to be said with an ironic tone of voice but made you understand his vision.
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Post by Ahriman on May 24, 2017 10:12:06 GMT
Where does Suvi's God come from? She's a scientist for fuck's sake, she should know her stance on God is really problematic. She only opens up new problems on who created God and then we need to answer who created that god, etc, etc, etc. The real question is "Is the Universe operating randomly or it operates with a rationality?". I personally believe in science and rationality so that the thought that our Universe operates on randomness and chance (without any clear goal) is simply unbearable for my mind. How is absence of goal not rational? "Why does Universe exist?" Because if it didn't exist there would be nobody to ask such question, simple as that.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:22:33 GMT
The real question is "Is the Universe operating randomly or it operates with a rationality?". I personally believe in science and rationality so that the thought that our Universe operates on randomness and chance (without any clear goal) is simply unbearable for my mind. How is absence of goal not rational? "Why does Universe exist?" Because if it didn't exist there would be nobody to ask such question, simple as that. Absence of goal is not rational because existance is connected with a goal. If things didn't have a goal then they wouldn't bother existing. Nature is an extreme pragmatist, to exist is to serve a purpose.
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Post by Ahriman on May 24, 2017 10:43:09 GMT
How is absence of goal not rational? "Why does Universe exist?" Because if it didn't exist there would be nobody to ask such question, simple as that. Absence of goal is not rational because existance is connected with a goal. Nature is an extreme pragmatist, to exist is to serve a purpose. It is not, it's simply alternative to non-existence. Reality exists because it can, creatures live because these which don't, simply die out. Things have no choice on the matter.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:50:29 GMT
Absence of goal is not rational because existance is connected with a goal. Nature is an extreme pragmatist, to exist is to serve a purpose. It is not, it's simply alternative to non-existence. Reality exists because it can, creatures live because these which don't, simply die out. Things have no choice on the matter. Yet you ignore all the intertwined relations between living beings and the symbiotic nature in which in one way or the other, animals and plants serves to each other benefits. Like it or not from the moment they exists they get a goal and their existence is integrated in the complex mechanism of Nature.
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Post by Ahriman on May 24, 2017 10:53:24 GMT
It is not, it's simply alternative to non-existence. Reality exists because it can, creatures live because these which don't, simply die out. Things have no choice on the matter. Yet you ignore all the intertwined relations between living beings and the symbiotic nature in which in one way or the other, animals and plants serves to each other benefits. Like it or not from the moment they exists they get a goal and their existence is integrated in the complex mechanism of Nature. Okay, I have no desire to lecture you on biology.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 10:55:52 GMT
Yet you ignore all the intertwined relations between living beings and the symbiotic nature in which in one way or the other, animals and plants serves to each other benefits. Like it or not from the moment they exists they get a goal and their existence is integrated in the complex mechanism of Nature. Okay, I have no desire to lecture you on biology. Yes the internet is certainly not the best place to share our different views on the matter.
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Post by zipzap2000 on May 24, 2017 11:01:44 GMT
The God of Suvi. I can see a market for that one. I meant her personal interpretation of God. And here I was imagining 5000 years in the future, Suvi has become like Sonmi from cloud atlas and an Ilos style VI revealing the truth to futuristic space voyagers.
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Post by djbare on May 24, 2017 11:18:05 GMT
That Suvi conversation was fucking dreadful, what kind of person says "God can't exist" to someone who's religious? Me, on the other hand I could lie just to get into her pants.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 11:30:29 GMT
Is the overall message of Mass Effect Andromeda that science and religion are incompatible with one another and you should choose a side? If yes is this yet more influence from the left wing of politics creeping into entertainment? Why has this always to be about hidden messages? It's a game that offers you the opportunity to declare yourself religious or not. It's on the same lines as it has been in every Bioware game. There are religions and myths associated with all the races and you, as a player, can take sides. It's called choice and not supporting Suvi's views is called player agency. Nobody forces you to choose one answer over the other. So there's certainly nothing creeping into entertainment. Btw, you could declare yourself an atheist to Ashley in the very first ME game. In a rather brutal renegade way, far as I remember. You could do the same in DAI, to Cassandra. Not as brutal, but in clear words. Also, as a frequent visitor of atheist boards, I can tell you that the absence of belief doesn't equal left wing politics. Ayn Rand certainly wasn't a left winger, but she was an atheist. In fact the proportion of left and right is pretty equal.
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Post by goishen on May 24, 2017 11:33:57 GMT
Ayn Rand certainly wasn't a left winger, but she was an atheist. In fact the proportion of left and right is pretty equal. *spits up coffee* Errr, what? Are you trying to tell me that Ayn Rand was a balanced individual?
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