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Post by griffith82 on May 24, 2017 17:10:07 GMT
Funny. Open world never killed skyrim replay.
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Post by alanc9 on May 24, 2017 17:32:02 GMT
Funny. Open world never killed skyrim replay. Maybe it did for the OP?
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Post by AnDromedary on May 24, 2017 17:36:58 GMT
The player doesn't have to complete everything for each playthrough. Change it up. Do a playthrough by only completing the main story. Do a speedrun. Change the order of completing side missions. Instead of using a shotgun for a playthrough, use a pistol. Or do a melee only playthrough. This. I am an absolute completionist on my first playthrough, always, but especially in games like ME:A or DA:I where the open worlds are not that interesting, I'd definitely restrict subsequent runs to the bare minimum.
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Post by Felya87 on May 24, 2017 18:08:11 GMT
I think open world is still too much seen as a requirement, and still not as an strument. It all depends on how is done. In Horizon, Oblivion, Skyrim the Fallout games, open world is funfor me: the journey to go to point A to point B is an adventure, and a easily skipped one to not became boring, be it with a mount ot teleporting to an already discovered place. Casual encounters, dinamic weather, day/night circle, and random stuff to find around make the world feel intersting enought to having me want to explore. But I think the big problem is how the secondary mission-fetch quests are done. In DAI I think the lack of cinematics and sometimes variety in the side missions killed the interest in the mayority of the world. Many missions were cute or interesting, but felt insignificant because the lack of cinematic dialogues/scene make them feel inconsequential. Some time ago I played a secondary mission in DAI in a haunted mansion in the Emerald Graves: it was interesting, and had a good story, but the lack of cinematics made it feel like a simple chore with just some light tricks on the road. Frankly, I can't remember if I had aver done it before. In Horizon there are secondary missions that are much less interesting than that one, but feel more important and had me more entartained, and had me remember those much better. I will easily remember, replayng Horizon, if I had already done a certain mission or not. Is frankly after ME2 that I find this problem in BioWare: a lot of fetch quest and little care in the presentation of the side missions. If there is one thing that BioWare can learn from Horizon (beside making Italian dubbing like in the old trilogy ) is about making less fetch-side quests, but putting care in them. If this have already been done in MEA, ignore me I still haven't playe the game...
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 18:20:20 GMT
In Horizon, Oblivion, Skyrim the Fallout games, open world is funfor me: the journey to go to point A to point B is an adventure, and a easily skipped one to not became boring, be it with a mount ot teleporting to an already discovered place. I didn't play Horizon since it's a platform exclusive, but for the others, there are different reasons to play certain games. Bioware's are story driven, more of an adventure than an open world game. The Bethesda games draw their strengths from being open world whereas the main story always was lackluster at best. Now that doesn't say that Bioware couldn't have pulled a believable mix of both. It's their second open world attempt so far, after DAI. In DAI I was rather appaled by your camp wardens not even reacting to you being directly attacked in the camp. They just went about their merry way as if nothing happened. But the maps contained a lot more life and a lot more to discover than in MEA. They repeated the mistake of not reacting NPCs. The world is static as it has been in Morrowind. They simply don't manage to create the illusion of life and player agency over shaping the worlds they present. They are totally static. If they took this one page out of Bethesdas book. The one about creating the illusion of your environment being something filled with life instead of statues, their approach at open world would probably be more appealing to me than Bethesdas.
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Post by chawktrick on May 24, 2017 18:21:01 GMT
^^Agreed - the challenge with an open world is making it interesting enough to travel through and explore, but easy enough to skip through if you find the travel and exploration tedious.
In Mass Effect: Andromeda's case, it doesn't help that a significant portion of the side content is under-developed and repetitive. And, in my opinion, that's the single greatest issue with this game.
I'd really like to see the Mass Effect series stray away from some of these mundane elements. People don't like filler content that feels without purpose.
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Post by Ancient on May 24, 2017 19:34:00 GMT
Funny. Open world never killed skyrim replay. Sure, after 100 hours you have large collection of potions, and you have killed 5000 draugrs. In the next replay you have the same. One mile wide, one inch deep.
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Post by suikoden on May 24, 2017 19:36:01 GMT
It kills it because of how many disconnected chores are in the games to extend replay value. If these could connect to the story in some way - or represent more than thinly veiled fetch quests, the game would be a lot better.
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 19:46:25 GMT
Sure, after 100 hours you have large collection of potions, and you have killed 5000 draugrs. In the next replay you have the same. One mile wide, one inch deep. I still maintain, there's merit in open world if handled correctly. I haven't picked up Skyrim for years, but I still play FO4. Admittedly heavily modded, but the main reason of why FO4 still interests me, is the settlement aspect of the game. Actually creating something instead of just roaming the land and killing everything you meet. Making it grow and watch it take on a semblance of life. Bioware only needed to pick up on that single aspect of their open world approach and it would really be great. To watch your outposts grow, develop, and to finally get rid of their telegraph pole NPCs and make them do something instead of rotting in the same damn spot for all eternity. If you go open world, make that world a living thing. Bethesda managed to create that illusion and it's atually the one and only plus as compared to the Bioware open world approach. Even with ME3, which was still a mostly linear adventure for it's largest part, they handled these aspects in a better way. The crew of the Normandy roaming the ship and actually engaging in activities instead of just standing around and shouting at each other over the intercom.
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Post by Pwnstix on May 24, 2017 19:51:46 GMT
Yeah, I feel like I could have been almost done with my second replay, but I'm about to go to Voeld again and... I just don't feel like it.
I think I'll just do the priority and loyalty missions this time and that's it. I did pretty much everything in my first playthrough, 100% viability, minus a few handfuls of fetch quests that I partially completed and a few that were bugged out. I'm good with just doing priority missions this time, loyalty missions (at least the ones that involve finding arks) and MAYBE activating the vaults. Maybe. I kind of don't feel like doing some of those vaults again.
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Post by correctamundo on May 24, 2017 20:56:16 GMT
The so called open world does not kill my replay. On the contrary it helps me build each Ryders story differently. In a game like Skyrim of course the sky is the limit.
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Post by tmjfin on May 24, 2017 21:07:06 GMT
Lies!!!! I have twelve Inquisitors (all completed) and 5 Ryders so far
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Post by bizantura on May 24, 2017 22:23:53 GMT
Like the fetch quests. Most are optional so leave them optional but the excuse usually is OCD. I enjoy the open world in MEA and driving, exploring.
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Post by paradigm on May 24, 2017 22:38:53 GMT
What killed replay for me was the removal of the paragon/renegade system. I mean, I wouldn't mind replaying all that open world stuff if I though I could approach my interactions with NPC's differently or aim for different outcomes in the quests based on the personality of the character I chose to create. Knowing that my responses, outside of a few key plot points or big heart romance points, have no real impact on how the game plays, was a big part of what killed replay for me.
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Post by fizzypop on May 24, 2017 22:52:48 GMT
Funny. Open world never killed skyrim replay. That's because skyrim did open world right. Skyrim was more about the world than it ever was about the main story. You weren't handed 329489849842 quests either instead you have to go out there to look for quests. You basically created a character in whatever way you wanted and imagined it to be. Many of the side quests did have very interesting stories attached to them with a mix of fetch and filler quests. Add in the ability to easily mod, add, and expand the world you then have a great place for people to create extra content and make it even more enjoyable. I've never actually beat skyrim's main quest. I don't see the need too because I don't play as a dragon born most of the time. This is not something you can do with MEA. There isn't a ton of variation to lead you elsewhere. Skyrim is literally more about the RP and world than it is about a specific story. MEA is nothing like skyrim and its audience is totally different. The main story matters and its where all the interesting content is. Skyrim literally had TWO main quests lines. It wasn't a straight forward story game. If MEA wants to be skyrim they'd have to like you know create an entirely different game where the connection to the main story isn't needed for the game to feel complete.
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Post by bshep on May 24, 2017 23:40:51 GMT
I would never want bioware to go back to the close world, claustrophobic tone of ME 2, I hated that especially on tuchanka where the only thing I could visit was an underround base and I am glad MEA and DAI made open world. The open world itself is not perfect in any of those game, but its already better in MEA, and I think it should be improve instead of being thrown out of the window. PLanetary exploration is already more interesting in this game contrarly to the one in ME 1 or ME 2. Yes. Most of the sidequests made more sense while being a pathfinder, better than almost all the sidequest from DAI which had the Inquisitor collecting random itens all over the map. They need to improve on it, not going back to the "corridor exploration".
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Post by themikefest on May 24, 2017 23:45:26 GMT
Lies!!!! I have twelve Inquisitors (all completed) and 5 Ryders so far I have 22 Inquisitors(all completed) and 14 Ryders so far.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on May 25, 2017 0:35:16 GMT
The obsessive need to complete every task is what kills replay. This isn't unique to RPGs.
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Post by bakgrind on May 25, 2017 1:28:25 GMT
DAI and Andromeda were both open world games that I enjoyed very much. Could they of done better? Sure no argument,but I think a lot of people allow themselves to feel overwhelmed and create a false sense of dread for themselves because they assume that since it is a big open area they have to do literally every quest on the map which is not the case in both Andromeda and Inquisition. Besides the required main story quests you really only have to do the quests you want to do in order to advance the game. I personally don’t want to see the industry set the standard by the route of let’s say a Tomb Raider type of series that only takes 17 hrs to complete it. The best part for myself if I can go back and do the quests that I did not complete after completing the main story .
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Post by kalasaurus on May 25, 2017 1:43:50 GMT
I don't thnk it's the open world but what they fill the world with. There are open world rpgs that filled the world with great content and it adds replay value to the game. I love both DAI and MEA but the side content in those games can feel like a chore to do. Bethesda seemed to have found a balance with characters and story in their open world. Bioware took inspiration from Skyrim in DAI, and the result wasn't the same. It's easy to lose interest in the Hinterlands because the pacing was all off and the scattered NPCs weren't as engaging. It was easier to feel detached from the open world, for lack of a better explanation. While the fetch/side quests in Fallout and The Elder Scrolls (mostly) involved characters, story, and an actual plot. Open worlds can work, but I think the issue is balancing the content.
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Post by RamShep on May 25, 2017 2:20:43 GMT
I think many factors (mentioned by others in this thread) combine to make MEA replay less attractive to me :
1. Profiles - in MET, the class system gave a unique feel and playing style to each character. 2. Paragon/Renegade - unique dialogue and interrupt options encouraged at least 2 PT (one Paragon, one Renegade). 3. Meaningful decisions - save Kaiden or Ashley, kill Wrex or not, kill Rana or not, save the Council or not, save the Rachni queen or not, choose Udina or Anderson, etc. in ME1. Similar meaningful decisions in ME2/ME3. What meaningful decisions do we make in MEA (main quest)? A few choices that end up with only superficially different (Sloane vs. Reyes, Salarians vs. Krogans) outcomes. 4. Crafting system - to craft the best weapons/armor, you need crafting supplies. Which make players want to grind/explore/find stuff that have no impact to the main story. After 1 or 2 or 3 PT, this can become a chore/boring. And the large open worlds do not help.
On my next PT, I plan to do just the main story quests, to see if I enjoy it more.
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Post by colfoley on May 25, 2017 3:06:08 GMT
I got five pts of DA I in and plan on getting at least four of MEA. And at 500 and 300 hours respectively that does not compare to the eight hundred hours i put into me2 that is pretty much more then any other game out there.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 3:31:57 GMT
Funny. Open world never killed skyrim replay. True, but Skyrim has 10 different races to chose from. You can ignore the main quest completely. You have 17 different skills to level and develop with perks. You can be a Vampire, Werewolf, Assassin, Knight, Hunter, Mage, Necromancer and so on. It is a game made for replay value, like any other Elder Scroll game. Dragon Age also has more choice than Mass Effect, which is a reason i replay it more, even Inquisition. You get to chose race, classes and then specialize said classes. It adds so much more to the game in terms of roleplaying.
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Post by decafhigh on May 25, 2017 3:32:26 GMT
A poorly done open world can certainly kill replay value (looking right at MEA here). A well done open world though does just the opposite, making sure there are always new areas and secrets to find in multiple playthroughs.
Honestly, much as I love open world games, I'm kinda on the fence about BW doing big open areas like MEA. They haven't really shown they can really do it right. Yet. And I do think their inability to do it right has hurt the story telling. I wouldn't really give BW any grief if they went back to a more linear design to accommodate their storytelling better though I would rather see them find a way to make the open world serve the storytelling in a better way.
If BW thinks they can improve and do it better next time I'm all for it. If they don't, well I personally won't blame them for scaling things back.
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Post by duckley on May 25, 2017 4:32:24 GMT
Not for me. I enjoy replaying the games - different LIs , different decisions, different discoveries...completing quests or collectables,...
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