jasonpogo
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Post by jasonpogo on May 24, 2017 12:11:50 GMT
I have to say this is my personal biggest problem with Biowares last two games. I mean I like Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect Andromeda well enough and like the cast of characters for both.
But the open worlds make it such a chore to go back and try different things. A new romance a new story path? Not worth the open world slog. In older DA and ME games it was alright to fight through the stages areas. But with the big open world it is just to much for me. So even if Bioware made the best open world of all time it would still suck. At least for the way Bioware dose it's story's and romances.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on May 24, 2017 12:23:23 GMT
I agree it kills the replay count, but I have found I have more hours playing Andromeda in my two games then I did with Mass Effect 1 or Mass Effect 3's SP.
I do think I rather have a higher replay count, but at least there is some minor positive.
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Post by christsuperstar on May 24, 2017 12:26:41 GMT
Annnd, I agree - still praying for a mod that just removes/autocompletes all the shitter quests.
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Post by setokaiba on May 24, 2017 12:27:07 GMT
I don't thnk it's the open world but what they fill the world with. There are open world rpgs that filled the world with great content and it adds replay value to the game. I love both DAI and MEA but the side content in those games can feel like a chore to do.
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Post by Shinobu on May 24, 2017 12:30:05 GMT
I like Andromeda and I agree.
Also, having an 80-100 hour game means that although there is more romance/friendship content, it feels sparser.
Started my second playthrough and I'm having difficulty mustering the enthusiasm to drive back and forth so much.
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Post by themikefest on May 24, 2017 12:30:50 GMT
The player doesn't have to complete everything for each playthrough. Change it up. Do a playthrough by only completing the main story. Do a speedrun. Change the order of completing side missions. Instead of using a shotgun for a playthrough, use a pistol. Or do a melee only playthrough.
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R1Outcast
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Post by R1Outcast on May 24, 2017 12:48:04 GMT
The player doesn't have to complete everything for each playthrough. Change it up. Do a playthrough by only completing the main story. Do a speedrun. Change the order of completing side missions. Instead of using a shotgun for a playthrough, use a pistol. Or do a melee only playthrough. You beat me to it. I was also going to point out the fact that much of the open world stuff is optional. The only thing that hurts replayability for me, is the profile system. I enjoyed doing different playthroughs with different classes in the trilogy. Sure...I can do that now by sticking with one profile, but it takes self-control (an area I'm lacking), and it's just not the same when I know my one character can do it all. It takes away from each playthrough's "personality" for me. My character now has access to all the same skills each playthrough. In the trilogy, each playthrough felt different and unique because of class individuality.
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malgus
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Post by malgus on May 24, 2017 12:53:04 GMT
I would never want bioware to go back to the close world, claustrophobic tone of ME 2, I hated that especially on tuchanka where the only thing I could visit was an underground base and I am glad MEA and DAI made open world.
The open world itself is not perfect in any of those game, but its already better in MEA, and I think it should be improve instead of being thrown out of the window. PLanetary exploration is already more interesting in this game contrarly to the one in ME 1 or ME 2.
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on May 24, 2017 13:14:19 GMT
I would never want bioware to go back to the close world, claustrophobic tone of ME 2, I hated that especially on tuchanka where the only thing I could visit was an underround base and I am glad MEA and DAI made open world. The open world itself is not perfect in any of those game, but its already better in MEA, and I think it should be improve instead of being thrown out of the window. PLanetary exploration is already more interesting in this game contrarly to the one in ME 1 or ME 2. Not so sure I'd agree. In all the other games you could find extra missions by exploring planets. In ME:A, all you get is extra xp or resources. Never an option to land on the planet. That is motivation right there for me to never even bother with scanning any planets at all.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 24, 2017 13:25:59 GMT
I have to say this is my personal biggest problem with Biowares last two games. I mean I like Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect Andromeda well enough and like the cast of characters for both. But the open worlds make it such a chore to go back and try different things. A new romance a new story path? Not worth the open world slog. In older DA and ME games it was alright to fight through the stages areas. But with the big open world it is just to much for me. So even if Bioware made the best open world of all time it would still suck. At least for the way Bioware dose it's story's and romances. I still think open-world design is a great thing, but you're right. The last two games have made replaying the entire adventure as a chore. It's too spread out with little payoff in my opinion. They have to tighten up the zones and fill out each planet with more diversity and life to make exploring worth it. I understand the situation where prefabs are common, but I still see very little that makes each planet unique except the environments that are beautiful, but static for the most part. Once you've seen it, it's not really worth going back again. With that said, Andromeda is beautiful on Frostbite. BioWare laid the foundation, let's hope they can build upon it.
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malgus
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Post by malgus on May 24, 2017 13:28:46 GMT
I would never want bioware to go back to the close world, claustrophobic tone of ME 2, I hated that especially on tuchanka where the only thing I could visit was an underround base and I am glad MEA and DAI made open world. The open world itself is not perfect in any of those game, but its already better in MEA, and I think it should be improve instead of being thrown out of the window. PLanetary exploration is already more interesting in this game contrarly to the one in ME 1 or ME 2. Not so sure I'd agree. In all the other games you could find extra missions by exploring planets. In ME:A, all you get is extra xp or resources. Never an option to land on the planet. That is motivation right there for me to never even bother with scanning any planets at all. I said planetary exploration, not space exploration. Planetary exploration is when you are on a planet like kadara, eladen, eos, havarl, voeld and you can actually freely explore them. Space exploration is when you are on the tempest and looking things on the galaxy map. Those two things are separate, and frankly in ME 2, I thought it was bad because instead of having a few planets with different envinronments, we find a lot of repetitive one, like the planet of the zaeed mission had a lot of similiraties to the one where we rescued the lost quarian or the one where we have to activate the mech to destroy the cavern. these planets were for the most part forgetable, they were envinronments we would barely visit before ending it, I prefer the game to concentrate on a few planets to explore rather tons of them that takes a lot of time to create but that would end quickly. and the quest on these planets were for the most part boring, in ME 1 you had quests that explain to you how it ends in a textbox, In ME 2 none of them had a dialogue about them, the beginning of the mission was explain too you in a mail, same for the consequences. You had to force yourself to find these boring quest, the amount of efforts needed to find them was not worth it.
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ArabianIGoggles
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on May 24, 2017 13:32:21 GMT
Not so sure I'd agree. In all the other games you could find extra missions by exploring planets. In ME:A, all you get is extra xp or resources. Never an option to land on the planet. That is motivation right there for me to never even bother with scanning any planets at all. I said planetary exploration, not space exploration. Planetary exploration is when you are on a planet like kadara, eladen, eos, havarl, voeld and you can actually freely explore them. Space exploration is when you are on the tempest and looking things on the galaxy map. Those two things are separate, and frankly in ME 2, I thought it was bad because instead of having a few planets with different envinronments, we find a lot of repetitive one, like the planet of the zaeed mission had a lot of similiraties to the one where we rescued the lost quarian or the one where we have to activate the mech to destroy the cavern. these planets were for the most part forgetable, they were envinronments we would barely visit before ending it, I prefer the game to concentrate on a few planets to explore rather tons of them that takes a lot of time to create but that would end quickly. and the quest on these planets were for the most part boring, in ME 1 you had quests that explain to you how it ends in a textbox, In ME 2 none of them had a dialogue about them, the beginning of the mission was explain too you in a mail, same for the consequences. You had to force yourself to find these boring quest, the amount of efforts needed to find them was not worth it. The planetary exploration isn't anything special. On Kadara and probably every other planet, there will be a large blank spot in the middle of the map that you can't get to. The honey comb wall appears all over the place, keeping you from exploring much of the planet at all.
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malgus
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Post by malgus on May 24, 2017 13:40:52 GMT
I said planetary exploration, not space exploration. Planetary exploration is when you are on a planet like kadara, eladen, eos, havarl, voeld and you can actually freely explore them. Space exploration is when you are on the tempest and looking things on the galaxy map. Those two things are separate, and frankly in ME 2, I thought it was bad because instead of having a few planets with different envinronments, we find a lot of repetitive one, like the planet of the zaeed mission had a lot of similiraties to the one where we rescued the lost quarian or the one where we have to activate the mech to destroy the cavern. these planets were for the most part forgetable, they were envinronments we would barely visit before ending it, I prefer the game to concentrate on a few planets to explore rather tons of them that takes a lot of time to create but that would end quickly. and the quest on these planets were for the most part boring, in ME 1 you had quests that explain to you how it ends in a textbox, In ME 2 none of them had a dialogue about them, the beginning of the mission was explain too you in a mail, same for the consequences. You had to force yourself to find these boring quest, the amount of efforts needed to find them was not worth it. The planetary exploration isn't anything special. On Kadara and probably every other planet, there will be a large blank spot in the middle of the map that you can't get to. The honey comb wall appears all over the place, keeping you from exploring much of the planet at all. Of course all planet needs to have a limit, you can't program a game to have no limits unless its procedural. But at least, the region are large enough for me to lose myself into, something I could not do in previous games. That said Ill admit that the "walls" of the planet should have been done better, like voeld having a frozen lake that we could not go on because the weight of the nomad would have broken the ice and drowned us, or Eos having huge rock mountains making us impossible to go further instead of that huge dome.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on May 24, 2017 13:43:00 GMT
I think the open world hurt DAI even more than MEA in this respect. In DAI the power mechanic and leveling requirements pretty much forced you to do some of the open world content. At least in MEA this is not a requirement.
However, I do agree that MEA has poor replayability. - Not enough interesting decisions and outcomes do not diverge enough - All of the companions are required to be on your team and can't be kicked off - Dialogue does not have enough variety - The profile system - Quests on planets (except maybe Kadara) are too similar
In DAO you went to Redcliffe, Orzammar, Brecilian Forest, and the Circle. Each region was very distinct with its own plot and unique circumstances. It never felt like you were doing the same thing 4 times even though the desired outcome was the same in each region (Warden treaty). I could say the same about KOTOR as well.
Part of the reason the planets and regions in MEA and DAI seem like chores is lack of diversity. Sure they look different in appearance but you are doing the same exact things in each region. And those things aren't even that interesting. This is a problem BioWare needs to address going forward.
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jasonpogo
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Post by jasonpogo on May 24, 2017 13:43:22 GMT
The player doesn't have to complete everything for each playthrough. Change it up. Do a playthrough by only completing the main story. Do a speedrun. Change the order of completing side missions. Instead of using a shotgun for a playthrough, use a pistol. Or do a melee only playthrough. The problem with this is you still need to spend a bunch of time driving around worlds and things even if you are ignoring the side quests. And in DAI you HAVE to do at least some side stuff to unlock power points just to get to the next story part.
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Post by derrame on May 24, 2017 13:46:18 GMT
yes, the boring open world and fetch quests make the game so boring and takes way too much time to cmplete i don want to spend another 10050 hours just to wak and scan or tak to a nd then talk to b and walk across gigantic boring lifeless maps
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Post by themikefest on May 24, 2017 13:50:50 GMT
The problem with this is you still need to spend a bunch of time driving around worlds and things even if you are ignoring the side quests. And in DAI you HAVE to do at least some side stuff to unlock power points just to get to the next story part. How long is a bunch of time driving around by only doing the main story? Drive on Eos. Go to Havarl where there's no driving. On Kadara only drive to the transponder location. Then drive on Meridian.
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kelarqshah
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Post by kelarqshah on May 24, 2017 16:11:28 GMT
The problem with this is you still need to spend a bunch of time driving around worlds and things even if you are ignoring the side quests. And in DAI you HAVE to do at least some side stuff to unlock power points just to get to the next story part. How long is a bunch of time driving around by only doing the main story? Drive on Eos. Go to Havarl where there's no driving. On Kadara only drive to the transponder location. Then drive on Meridian. I agree. I've been doing this on my replays and the main story holds up pretty well just on its own. My issue with this approach is that I can barely remember a time I found something in the open world that felt as fun or exciting as the main storyline or the loyalty missions, but those collectively feel like less than 35% of MEA's content. So I can't help but wonder how much more I'd have enjoyed the game if the open world had been half the size (or half as cluttered), and instead we'd got 2 or 3 more main missions...
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Post by samhain444 on May 24, 2017 16:21:45 GMT
You don't have to do all the quests, and none of the "Task:" requests, to get to 100% viability on all planets and complete the game.
On my 3rd playthrough, I completed all main planet missions (ex: Remnant Ship, Flophouse, Vaults on Eladaan), loyalty quests, side quests that interested me and finished in 59hrs at level 52 with 22 cryo perks.
Some "Task:" missions are easy to complete because they are on the way to somewhere else but I rarely go out of my to do them because, well, they're totally optional. If you find you are spending too much time racing around a planet, don't do it.
While ME:A is very similar to Inquisition in certain aspects, ME:A is less dependent on the "fetch quests" and "Task:" missions to build up your XP and level.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 16:25:01 GMT
I love it and it makes me replay it to find new stuff, but on days I am tired of finding things, I just do priority missions, loyalty missions and email missions. It's less stressing and a lot more fun that way!
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Post by abaris on May 24, 2017 16:26:14 GMT
I don't thnk it's the open world but what they fill the world with. There are open world rpgs that filled the world with great content and it adds replay value to the game. I love both DAI and MEA but the side content in those games can feel like a chore to do. Personally I think Open world rather adds to replayability than to reduce it. If there's still something to discover that I haven't seen before. Bioware aren't masters of the open world concept in general. Their worlds aren't alive in the sense of creating an illusion. They added settlement building, and it's probably a mere coincidence that FO4 also added settlement building almost 2 years ago. MEA was already well into development by then. But the difference being, you have agency over how your settlements turn out to be in FO4, whereas you have none in MEA. Your people, aka settlers, deliver the illusion of being alive and going about their daily business, even tending the crops in FO4. They react to threats by picking up arms. In MEA they turn into the usual Bioware telegraph poles. Always standing in the same place or doing the same set of animations over and over. It's nice to discover the boozing lady for the first time in Prodromos. But revisiting her game months later, still being pissed out of her wits, makes you think, they should have kicked her off the station by now. In short, there's no illusion of change or development, not even the illusion of them reacting to their environment. So revisiting in order to see what's new is out of the window. There is nothing new to observe, nothing new to discover, nothing new to build.
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Post by Sah291 on May 24, 2017 16:58:12 GMT
It does seem to yeah...but it's kind of weird, because in theory, you would think open world should increase replayability. Finding and doing different quests and areas of the map that you didn't discover before, etc. But in reality that doesn't seem to be how most people play....many of us try to complete everything, and check every box, and games make you feel like you need to unlock every achievement and do every little thing, or you haven't really finished. But the game is more enjoyable if you just let go of that thinking and skip stuff. Do one completionist playthrough and call it good, then just replay the main story.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 17:06:33 GMT
Funny. Open world never killed skyrim replay.
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Post by griffith82 on May 24, 2017 17:08:10 GMT
I love it and it makes me replay it to find new stuff, but on days I am tired of finding things, I just do priority missions, loyalty missions and email missions. It's less stressing and a lot more fun that way! Yup same here.
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kino
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on May 24, 2017 17:08:14 GMT
For me the open zone design added to the replay value of the game. I actually found stuff I had missed while going through the second time, which made my third play through more of a completionist game.
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