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I love nailing asari. So ageless and superior -- then you get them and they squeal like school girls
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Post by gplayer on May 31, 2017 15:55:28 GMT
The sad thing is that the stories were there, they just did not let your Ryder experience them. The vaults were the Deus Ex Machina that fixed everything, and the remnant in general ruined what could have been a great game. What if it was Ryder at the first/second outposts on Eos dealing with radiation, weather and kett attacks? What if it was Ryder that had to disobey orders and shoot his superior to save everyone? All those tiny sidequests with exiles giving up piracy and stealing supplies from Podromos and begging to return to the Initiative. Meeting reps from Advent, the tension between Angarra and Exiles on Kedarra....these were all amazing tales of survival and regret that would have been amazing parts of a main plot - and I would have been the first to respect BW for creating a new game, not ME: The Popcorn reboot. All of this. They had opportunity with the Andromeda concept to tell an epic story based on exploration and unlocking the mysteries of a strange new galaxy. This instead, for reasons that can pretty much only be explained by laziness, had the 'Pathfinder' show up after sufficient (not that 14 month was in any logical sense sufficient) time had passed that they could populate the galaxy with recycled mass effect tropes. It's almost as if they just cobbled together a universe based on a check list of things they wanted in it, then cobbled together a story based on a check list of things they wanted to happen and then jammed the two together without caring if it made any sense. Like having thousands of Exiles, spread over multiple worlds, who are better equipped and provisioned than the Nexus supported colonists. An alien race that depends on a time consuming and complicated process capturing and converting other species just to maintain their number acting like suicide shock troopers. The 'missing' Turian ark sitting in full view of an Exile HE3 mining installation the whole time. The only time I really had a genuine sense of exploration and wonder was Habitat 7. Finding that Kett dig site, seeing the weird plant in the cave, even seeing Kirkland getting shot, thats what I thought the whole game would be like. It was downhill from there, but things really began to fall apart after Eos for me and I began just going through the motions to get to the end.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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almostfaceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 31, 2017 15:59:37 GMT
The same resources for each "planet" are used over and over again. The same bases, the same turrets, the same base interiors, the same mine shafts and mine chambers... to say there's more nuance doesn't really work. Most of the planets felt like resource filler or paragon/renegade point mining operations. They certainly didn't feel necessary or as a logical or essential part of the "race against time" narrative. It's cool if you don't like Andromeda, but it's a bit silly to make stuff up about ME1 to hate on it even more. For clarification, I wound up mixing up my thoughts on the aspect of world building and side mission planets in my original post vs. the narrative world building of both games. Yes, the side missions and gathering objectives were dull and lifeless in ME 1. Yes, the planets themselves were carbon copied, procedurally generated, slogs with the same set of reused assets and only with a change in sky box. To that point, yes, Andromeda does have a leg up on ME 1 in terms of world design being conductive to fun gameplay. My point of contention was the narrative world building between the two titles: in terms of lore, narrative conciseness and consistency, and sheer variety in how many different topics and themes are touched on with the myriad alien races and the like. ME 1 sets up an engaging setting, and then sprinkles it with aspects, both recognizable and foreign, that helps create this universe that feels nuanced; a place were humanity and our way of doing things is just a small part of a much larger whole. Andromeda doesn't have nearly that amount of diversity in it's setting. It's a bland universe populated with humans and humans in rubber suits and decides to focus far more on things that are recognizable than trying to set any real science fiction elements; outside of the aesthetics of space ships and laser guns at any rate. Everything else that could possibly be considered different is ignored or reduced to mindless monsters to kill for XP. The Rachni and Thorian might have been one off conversations, but at least ME 1 went out of it's way to point out the fact that the universe was more than just what we were comfortable with. In Andromeda, it's all about the romance points, all about setting up for that Movie Night etc. Don't really agree with that either. Most of what we fought in ME1 were evil corporations and their evil experiments. The Turians were the Spartans. The Asari were the blue space chick mages. The volus were the fat geeky wimpy nerds. The Elcor were monotone codex holders, we never really learn much about them at all. The Krogan were the Klingons on steroids. The Council was just as petty and narrow-minded and corrupt as human politicians. Not only that, but apparently their technology had stagnated for hundreds if not thousands of years... they were morons as well. Mass Effect 1 was a fun way to pass some time, but it didn't break any ground in science fiction or world building. Though I did appreciate it's small attempts at world building. All the dull alien species were probably why I found the Reapers so intriguing... at first. Edit: forgot the salarians = geeky science nerds with ray guns.
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Post by EllanyaWindkeeper on May 31, 2017 16:03:38 GMT
So many words about it! So many criticism! I don't know, guys, I don't want to disassemble and study Bioware work, I just start play game. I like it, or not - that's all. Great game for me Like great book or movie. I was shocked and so excited when started ME1, then ME2 was dissapointed a little bit, but I enjoyed it too, then ME3 - great game with bitter and wierd end, but still very emotional and I liked it very much too. And MEA - amazing game for me! If we don't like any book - we just drop it, we don't teach the writer how he should write, what heroes he should have and the plot twists. Why so cruel?
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Post by cypherj on May 31, 2017 16:41:31 GMT
Just looking at ME:1.
The opening scene with Anderson and Udina talking, Shepard walking through the ship to the main theme, seeing your Shepard and then going through the relay for the first time was awesome. Ryder was not introduced in the same way. You became a Spectre, were told what a Spectre was, what you could and couldn't do. I still have no idea what a Pathfinder is. If there was no scourge and everything had worked as intended, what would have been your role. You have complete control over what personnel get brought out of cryo, but you have to ask for permission to get a ship. A ship that only you can navigate. To me, Pathfinders should have been on the Nexus, scouting these worlds, finding places to establish outposts so that when the Arks arrived things were already in place.
The squad in ME:1 were introduced as part of the story. Garrus was investigating Saren, Tali had the info to expose Saren, Ashley comes running out on Eden Prime, last person defending the base, Liara was the Prothean expert you needed after seeing what you did from the beacon. In ME:A Drack just shows up in the middle of the desert, Peebee just materializes at the first vault, Vetra just shows up at the docking bay. Some of the ME:1 characters may have been stiff but the introduced you to the races. Asari being natural biotics, Liara being 100 years old but still a teen for the most part, the mind melding. What were the unique things about Angarans, nothing really stuck out for me talking the Jaal or the others?
Enemies, there was no Saren in this game. No well written agent of the enemy that was challenging you and every turn as you tried to keep up or stay on step ahead. The Archon just wasn't much of anything. Then you had Sovereign who brought the seriousness of what was coming, because if one reaper could almost take the Citadel what would hundreds be like. You feared them. I didn't fear the Kett, they were never built up as anything, so seeing the new Kett leader turn and walk away from the window at the end did nothing for me because they weren't built up as anything I should fear during the game.
They way you were introduced to things like the Citadel, where even your crew was running to the window to see the Citadel and the Destiny Ascension and were in awe along with you seeing it for the first time. Since everyone in ME:A was seeing everything for the first time, there should have been more of this discovery played out in the game.
I could go on to things that a really more subjective like moments, but ME:1, just looking at ME:1 did a better job at introducing you to the it's world and laying the groundwork than ME:A did.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 31, 2017 17:01:02 GMT
Just looking at ME:1. The opening scene with Anderson and Udina talking, Shepard walking through the ship to the main theme, seeing your Shepard and then going through the relay for the first time was awesome. Ryder was not introduced in the same way. You became a Spectre, were told what a Spectre was, what you could and couldn't do. I still have no idea what a Pathfinder is. If there was no scourge and everything had worked as intended, what would have been your role. You have complete control over what personnel get brought out of cryo, but you have to ask for permission to get a ship. A ship that only you can navigate. To me, Pathfinders should have been on the Nexus, scouting these worlds, finding places to establish outposts so that when the Arks arrived things were already in place. The squad in ME:1 were introduced as part of the story. Garrus was investigating Saren, Tali had the info to expose Saren, Ashley comes running out on Eden Prime, last person defending the base, Liara was the Prothean expert you needed after seeing what you did from the beacon. In ME:A Drack just shows up in the middle of the desert, Peebee just materializes at the first vault, Vetra just shows up at the docking bay. Some of the ME:1 characters may have been stiff but the introduced you to the races. Asari being natural biotics, Liara being 100 years old but still a teen for the most part, the mind melding. What were the unique things about Angarans, nothing really stuck out for me talking the Jaal or the others? Enemies, there was no Saren in this game. No well written agent of the enemy that was challenging you and every turn as you tried to keep up or stay on step ahead. The Archon just wasn't much of anything. Then you had Sovereign who brought the seriousness of what was coming, because if one reaper could almost take the Citadel what would hundreds be like. You feared them. I didn't fear the Kett, they were never built up as anything, so seeing the new Kett leader turn and walk away from the window at the end did nothing for me because they weren't built up as anything I should fear during the game. They way you were introduced to things like the Citadel, where even your crew was running to the window to see the Citadel and the Destiny Ascension and were in awe along with you seeing it for the first time. Since everyone in ME:A was seeing everything for the first time, there should have been more of this discovery played out in the game. I could go on to things that a really more subjective like moments, but ME:1, just looking at ME:1 did a better job at introducing you to the it's world and laying the groundwork than ME:A did. Just my 2 cents. If there was no scourge and everything was hunky-dory, then there'd simply be no game, just people building colonies while the Pathfinder scouts ahead and plants new beacons for more settlements. If there were no reapers, or it was impossible for them to totally invade the milky way without control over the relay, Nihilus would be alive and probably recommend Shepard to become a Spectre, and then perhaps nothing happens for a while until the Council issues an order.
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 17:11:03 GMT
Give it a few years. People will complain that the next installment of the Mass Effect series sucked compared to MEA. It happened after ME2 and ME3, and will happen again. Besides, it's not unique to just this fandom.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 17:29:53 GMT
The sad thing is that the stories were there, they just did not let your Ryder experience them. The vaults were the Deus Ex Machina that fixed everything, and the remnant in general ruined what could have been a great game. What if it was Ryder at the first/second outposts on Eos dealing with radiation, weather and kett attacks? What if it was Ryder that had to disobey orders and shoot his superior to save everyone? All those tiny sidequests with exiles giving up piracy and stealing supplies from Podromos and begging to return to the Initiative. Meeting reps from Advent, the tension between Angarra and Exiles on Kedarra....these were all amazing tales of survival and regret that would have been amazing parts of a main plot - and I would have been the first to respect BW for creating a new game, not ME: The Popcorn reboot. Man, so much this. It would be impossible for me to agree more strongly. I think we could have done without the Kett as well (another recycled idea from the OT) and focused on the Initiative and their struggle for survival, the exploration of new planets and finding ways to survive, and first contact with the Angara. Those would have been awesome story lines to develop and experience.
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Post by malgus on May 31, 2017 17:34:15 GMT
Give it a few years. People will complain that the next installment of the Mass Effect series sucked compared to MEA. It happened after ME2 and ME3, and will happen again. Besides, it's not unique to just this fandom. Yup, it is bound to happen tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VindicatedByHistory
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 17:46:39 GMT
Just looking at ME:1. The opening scene with Anderson and Udina talking, Shepard walking through the ship to the main theme, seeing your Shepard and then going through the relay for the first time was awesome. Ryder was not introduced in the same way. You became a Spectre, were told what a Spectre was, what you could and couldn't do. I still have no idea what a Pathfinder is. If there was no scourge and everything had worked as intended, what would have been your role. You have complete control over what personnel get brought out of cryo, but you have to ask for permission to get a ship. A ship that only you can navigate. To me, Pathfinders should have been on the Nexus, scouting these worlds, finding places to establish outposts so that when the Arks arrived things were already in place. The squad in ME:1 were introduced as part of the story. Garrus was investigating Saren, Tali had the info to expose Saren, Ashley comes running out on Eden Prime, last person defending the base, Liara was the Prothean expert you needed after seeing what you did from the beacon. In ME:A Drack just shows up in the middle of the desert, Peebee just materializes at the first vault, Vetra just shows up at the docking bay. Some of the ME:1 characters may have been stiff but the introduced you to the races. Asari being natural biotics, Liara being 100 years old but still a teen for the most part, the mind melding. What were the unique things about Angarans, nothing really stuck out for me talking the Jaal or the others? Enemies, there was no Saren in this game. No well written agent of the enemy that was challenging you and every turn as you tried to keep up or stay on step ahead. The Archon just wasn't much of anything. Then you had Sovereign who brought the seriousness of what was coming, because if one reaper could almost take the Citadel what would hundreds be like. You feared them. I didn't fear the Kett, they were never built up as anything, so seeing the new Kett leader turn and walk away from the window at the end did nothing for me because they weren't built up as anything I should fear during the game. They way you were introduced to things like the Citadel, where even your crew was running to the window to see the Citadel and the Destiny Ascension and were in awe along with you seeing it for the first time. Since everyone in ME:A was seeing everything for the first time, there should have been more of this discovery played out in the game. I could go on to things that a really more subjective like moments, but ME:1, just looking at ME:1 did a better job at introducing you to the it's world and laying the groundwork than ME:A did. Just my 2 cents. And here I am reading what you are contrasting, and I am like... yes, yes, very similar. Angara as a created species that realize that they are artificially generated, for example was way more unique tome than the blue babes from outer space that wanted to have sex with human males... Drack chasing Kett and wanting to discover the plot against his people is more of a justification to liaison with Ryder than a random survivor of an attack like Ashley, being given your dad's mysterious and dangerous SAM to a mysterious end vs being promoted to a space Bond... etc, etc, etc. I dunno, I like both & I do not see a significant difference in its impact, except I could not replay ME1 the third time, but I am chomping at the bit for Andromeda (come on, Bio, CC patch coming or not?) because the experience is so fun & smooth.
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Post by ozzie on May 31, 2017 17:58:39 GMT
If there was no scourge and everything was hunky-dory, then there'd simply be no game, just people building colonies while the Pathfinder scouts ahead and plants new beacons for more settlements. If there were no reapers, or it was impossible for them to totally invade the milky way without control over the relay, Nihilus would be alive and probably recommend Shepard to become a Spectre, and then perhaps nothing happens for a while until the Council issues an order. I think the point is that Spectres have a purpose beyond fighting reapers, it is well explained and justified. Pathfinders on the other hand do not. There are IIRC 4 MW colonies/outposts founded before the Pathfinders even arrive, so they aint required for scouting new colonies, they are only required for activating retirement tech. This is classic example of building a universe around your story, rather than building a story around your universe and is objectively bad writing.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on May 31, 2017 18:15:11 GMT
If there was no scourge and everything was hunky-dory, then there'd simply be no game, just people building colonies while the Pathfinder scouts ahead and plants new beacons for more settlements. If there were no reapers, or it was impossible for them to totally invade the milky way without control over the relay, Nihilus would be alive and probably recommend Shepard to become a Spectre, and then perhaps nothing happens for a while until the Council issues an order. I think the point is that Spectres have a purpose beyond fighting reapers, it is well explained and justified. Pathfinders on the other hand do not. There are IIRC 4 MW colonies/outposts founded before the Pathfinders even arrive, so they aint required for scouting new colonies, they are only required for activating retirement tech. This is classic example of building a universe around your story, rather than building a story around your universe and is objectively bad writing. Yes, this is pretty much what I was saying. Whatever ship was going to be the first ship to arrive should have had the Pathfinders on it. Or every ship is case it was the only one the make it.
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 18:50:52 GMT
Comparing a single game to a a summary of three entire games is nonsense. Especially when those three games are very individual and the only thing truly connecting them is the narrative and lore. ME1 is a totally different game from ME2. And ME2 is vastly different from ME3. Anyone who played the trilogy straight through, one right after the other, can pick up the dissonance between them all no matter how small it is felt. "ME:A doesn't live up to the OT" well of course, you're pitting a single game experience, against three games that you're compounding as one. How are you supposed jam the essense of each OT game into one? (Actually I think that's likely what Bioware attempted to do here) i think once ME:A 2 comes out, everyone will start letting go of this rigid basis to comparing (essentially) a single game reboot of the series, to a rose-colored filtration of all the OT games squeezed into one compendium made of one's imagination. i noticed I was doing this myself when I was wondering why my Ryder wasn't an exact clone of Shepard. the thing is i didn't make the comparisons to the OT Because Bioware made it very clear in the marketing that Andromeda was going to be different from the trilogy and Ryder was going to be different from Shepard. Any comparison to the OT is either superficial or done in a unique, fresh, in many cases better way.
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Post by ozzie on May 31, 2017 18:52:36 GMT
Yes, this is pretty much what I was saying. Whatever ship was going to be the first ship to arrive should have had the Pathfinders on it. Or every ship is case it was the only one the make it. Yeah, seems kind of obvious really. The game should have centred around the Nexus Pathfinder teams, these would be multi discipline, multi species groups because its a team effort this whole initiative thing right? Lets ditch the Geth FTL Telescope and 'golden worlds' as they are lame and not required for the story or believably. The job of the Pathfinder teams can be.. 'shocker' to scout out new worlds for prospective colonisation. Lets see... throw some competing path finder teams in there with some memorable characters of their own to get to know, this would add some opportunity for competition and light hearted banter, possibly a rescue mission later on when they get themselves captured. Some urgency is imparted because they need these worlds scouted and a full manifest of various resources to be discovered before the imminent arrival of the colonists on the Ark ships. These Ark ships would intend to rendezvous with the Nexus at the edge of the cluster... because unarmed vessels with 20'000 civilians on board turning up in a completely unknown system and attempting to colonise a planet without at least talking to the people who have been there scouting it out for over a year first is just unbelievably f****g stupid. Unlike in ME1 where the exploration aspect felt like you were deviating from your primary goal of stopping Saren, instead Exploration would be your primary goal. But the key to making it good would have been for the writing team to just build a new universe, once they had that universe designed inject a new concept in this case the colonisation of said universe by the Milky Way species... This is how you write traditional Sci-Fi, its tried tested and it works.
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 22:07:36 GMT
One may never forget that they were the ones opening that particular can of wirms. They could have created a new IP instead of using the Mass Effect brand. By calling it Mass Effect, they invited comparisons by people, who bought this game because of the label.
It may not be fair, but that's the way it is. Apart from the fact that it's entirely legit to compare Bioware against Bioware. Such as the work that went into the companions, as compared to previous efforts by Bioware. That would even be legit if it was indeed an entirely new IP.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 31, 2017 23:21:55 GMT
One may never forget that they were the ones opening that particular can of wirms. They could have created a new IP instead of using the Mass Effect brand. By calling it Mass Effect, they invited comparisons by people, who bought this game because of the label. It may not be fair, but that's the way it is. Apart from the fact that it's entirely legit to compare Bioware against Bioware. Such as the work that went into the companions, as compared to previous efforts by Bioware. That would even be legit if it was indeed an entirely new IP. It's not really "legit" for one to not apply their brain when making comparisons.
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Post by goishen on Jun 1, 2017 0:01:37 GMT
To me ME1 is like a story that's already been told, you're just now catching up on it. ME:A is just a bunch of cheap deus ex machinas, only there to further the plot along. We can't defend this station? Have somebody do a biotic bubble the size of our moon, that'll save us!
Wait...
what?!?
HFS.
I can accept their own biotic bubbles around their person. But jesus, the size of a moon?
Holy christ, you people will defend anything.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 1, 2017 1:11:33 GMT
I've said it once I'll say it again. Compare all you want. Mea compares very favorably to the ot. Story. Character. Gameplay. Rp. Bring it.
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Post by goishen on Jun 1, 2017 1:18:08 GMT
Err, right. Okay. If you wanna have that much dogma about a subject, I'm out. You're defending something which is shit, you know it's shit, and yet you're defending it anyway.
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Post by plasmasnack on Jun 1, 2017 1:42:11 GMT
If there was no scourge and everything was hunky-dory, then there'd simply be no game, just people building colonies while the Pathfinder scouts ahead and plants new beacons for more settlements. If there were no reapers, or it was impossible for them to totally invade the milky way without control over the relay, Nihilus would be alive and probably recommend Shepard to become a Spectre, and then perhaps nothing happens for a while until the Council issues an order. I believe it is a little close-minded to assume that there would be no conflict at all if the Scourge did not exist. You don't just travel to a new galaxy and expect to settle completely new planets with the snap of your fingers. Oh wait you actually do because I forgot that you press a panel in a console in the Vaults and it does the hard work for you
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Post by SofNascimento on Jun 1, 2017 1:47:06 GMT
You can compare MEA to any individual game in the trilogy and it will remain considerably lacking.
It's not a good game by (old) Bioware standards.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 1, 2017 1:51:11 GMT
Err, right. Okay. If you wanna have that much dogma about a subject, I'm out. You're defending something which is shit, you know it's shit, and yet you're defending it anyway. brief moments of sarcasm.and trolling aside when i say something i believe it. Andromeda is a very good game. Exceeded expectations even.
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Post by CHRrOME on Jun 1, 2017 2:03:48 GMT
It's not like we're comparing ME:A to FIFA. It is only natural to compare a Mass Effect game with another Mass Effect game. It's not about the trilogy either, it's about how good the tittle can do compared to how good ME1, ME2, and ME3 did on their own.
Of course, opinions are opinions, but ME:A's story is vastly inferior to ME1 story, and take into account that ME:A borrows a lot of things from the trilogy (part of the mistake). ME1 did everything from scratch and the combat suffered a bit because of that, the trade-off was a complete new universe filled with lore, life, and a very good story to be continued for the subsequent titles. With ME:A, you have a product that tried to be new and fresh, but ended up mimicking things we already saw before, and not being particularly good at that either, with lots of potential wasted and very inconsistent writing.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 1, 2017 4:05:31 GMT
Err, right. Okay. If you wanna have that much dogma about a subject, I'm out. You're defending something which is shit, you know it's shit, and yet you're defending it anyway. Proof?
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Post by smilesja on Jun 1, 2017 4:07:01 GMT
To me ME1 is like a story that's already been told, you're just now catching up on it. ME:A is just a bunch of cheap deus ex machinas, only there to further the plot along. We can't defend this station? Have somebody do a biotic bubble the size of our moon, that'll save us! Wait... what?!? HFS. I can accept their own biotic bubbles around their person. But jesus, the size of a moon? Holy christ, you people will defend anything. I didn't mind it, especially compared to the Star Child.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 1, 2017 4:09:01 GMT
The sad thing is that the stories were there, they just did not let your Ryder experience them. The vaults were the Deus Ex Machina that fixed everything, and the remnant in general ruined what could have been a great game. What if it was Ryder at the first/second outposts on Eos dealing with radiation, weather and kett attacks? What if it was Ryder that had to disobey orders and shoot his superior to save everyone? All those tiny sidequests with exiles giving up piracy and stealing supplies from Podromos and begging to return to the Initiative. Meeting reps from Advent, the tension between Angarra and Exiles on Kedarra....these were all amazing tales of survival and regret that would have been amazing parts of a main plot - and I would have been the first to respect BW for creating a new game, not ME: The Popcorn reboot. Man, so much this. It would be impossible for me to agree more strongly. I think we could have done without the Kett as well (another recycled idea from the OT) and focused on the Initiative and their struggle for survival, the exploration of new planets and finding ways to survive, and first contact with the Angara. Those would have been awesome story lines to develop and experience. Good thing the game has all that.
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