obatalaryder
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Post by obatalaryder on May 31, 2017 6:31:24 GMT
Comparing a single game to a a summary of three entire games is nonsense. Especially when those three games are very individual and the only thing truly connecting them is the narrative and lore. ME1 is a totally different game from ME2. And ME2 is vastly different from ME3. Anyone who played the trilogy straight through, one right after the other, can pick up the dissonance between them all no matter how small it is felt.
"ME:A doesn't live up to the OT"
well of course, you're pitting a single game experience, against three games that you're compounding as one. How are you supposed jam the essense of each OT game into one? (Actually I think that's likely what Bioware attempted to do here)
i think once ME:A 2 comes out, everyone will start letting go of this rigid basis to comparing (essentially) a single game reboot of the series, to a rose-colored filtration of all the OT games squeezed into one compendium made of one's imagination.
i noticed I was doing this myself when I was wondering why my Ryder wasn't an exact clone of Shepard.
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Post by kalasaurus on May 31, 2017 6:43:21 GMT
Give it a few years. People will complain that the next installment of the Mass Effect series sucked compared to MEA. It happened after ME2 and ME3, and will happen again.
Besides, it's not unique to just this fandom.
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Post by gplayer on May 31, 2017 7:28:51 GMT
I don't think your comments are fair. When people to compare to the OT, they are drawing comparisons to individual games (ME1, ME2...etc). We have a reasonable expectation that BW would learn from the OT and that those lessons show up in MEA. Instead we have the wrong lessons learned, or not learned at all:
1. Ambassador choice: In ME1 they did not know yet how the story would play out, and in subsquent installments this turned out to be irrelevant. Kasumi's destroy/keep greybox is in this same category. What did they do in MEA? They brought up an ambassador choice at the end? What was the point of that? Ah its because BW wants to feed on the nostalgia you had for the OT. Its BW that keeps opening the door to these comparisons
2. Drak/Wrex, Krogans vs Salarians, SAM/EDI: These are all story elements from the OT. They give you a Krogan squaddie that wants to improve the lot of his people (sound familiar?). You have to make a choice to save Krogans or Salarians. You have an AI that assists you, despite the objections and reservations of others. All of these are story elements shamelessly copied from the OT. I would say comparisons to OT is not fair if BW actually tried to create a new story in a new galaxy. The setting and the time changed, but they are repeating a lot of the same elements. Comparison is totally fair here. Am I supposed to believe no one brought this up internally at peer review at BW? Its more likely they were like "hey lets add a giant robot worm on Elaadan, it will remind people of fighting thresher maws".
3. The big secret that had me chasing memory triggers up impossible mountain paths for hours was something I already knew. Did ME1 do that? Did ME2? Did ME3?
4. They shamelessly copied the one on one segments from Citadel DLC. Shooting bottles at the top of the Presidium with Garrus works because of the events in all three games. Bar fight with Drak or planting seeds with Cora? No thanks. It was BW shoving the comparison in our faces, not malicious players trying to take down the game.
Did they try to tell a new story? Maybe, but they did not try hard enough. Did they demonstrate they learned what story elements worked and what didn't? Absolutely not - they copied and pasted without knowing why those elements worked.
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Post by gplayer on May 31, 2017 7:36:01 GMT
The sad thing is that the stories were there, they just did not let your Ryder experience them. The vaults were the Deus Ex Machina that fixed everything, and the remnant in general ruined what could have been a great game.
What if it was Ryder at the first/second outposts on Eos dealing with radiation, weather and kett attacks? What if it was Ryder that had to disobey orders and shoot his superior to save everyone? All those tiny sidequests with exiles giving up piracy and stealing supplies from Podromos and begging to return to the Initiative. Meeting reps from Advent, the tension between Angarra and Exiles on Kedarra....these were all amazing tales of survival and regret that would have been amazing parts of a main plot - and I would have been the first to respect BW for creating a new game, not ME: The Popcorn reboot.
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Post by ozzie on May 31, 2017 9:07:54 GMT
Give it a few years. People will complain that the next installment of the Mass Effect series sucked compared to MEA. It happened after ME2 and ME3, and will happen again. Besides, it's not unique to this fandom. The problem with that comparison is that the majority of people complained about ME2 and ME3 for very specific problems they felt they had, notably the cutting down of RPG elements and the ending, yet were in the most part very happy with the rest of the product. ME:A though is getting hammered on pretty much every front, rightfully so imho. Once you get past the meme spawning animation problems of the initial release and start looking the the posts on this forum and longer video dissections, you can see that what fans are hammering ME:A for are problems with the story, writing and direction, care and attention to detail, ultimately an overall drop in quality. This has been evident to a lot of people since release, however this was overshadowed by the dearth of complaints about the animations, the cynic in me might think, given how quickly they fixed these problems they were intentionally left in as a magicians slight of hand trick to draw the eye away from the games core issues. The sad thing is that the stories were there, they just did not let your Ryder experience them. The vaults were the Deus Ex Machina that fixed everything, and the remnant in general ruined what could have been a great game. What if it was Ryder at the first/second outposts on Eos dealing with radiation, weather and kett attacks? What if it was Ryder that had to disobey orders and shoot his superior to save everyone? All those tiny sidequests with exiles giving up piracy and stealing supplies from Podromos and begging to return to the Initiative. Meeting reps from Advent, the tension between Angarra and Exiles on Kedarra....these were all amazing tales of survival and regret that would have been amazing parts of a main plot - and I would have been the first to respect BW for creating a new game, not ME: The Popcorn reboot. All of this. They had opportunity with the Andromeda concept to tell an epic story based on exploration and unlocking the mysteries of a strange new galaxy. This instead, for reasons that can pretty much only be explained by laziness, had the 'Pathfinder' show up after sufficient (not that 14 month was in any logical sense sufficient) time had passed that they could populate the galaxy with recycled mass effect tropes. It's almost as if they just cobbled together a universe based on a check list of things they wanted in it, then cobbled together a story based on a check list of things they wanted to happen and then jammed the two together without caring if it made any sense. Like having thousands of Exiles, spread over multiple worlds, who are better equipped and provisioned than the Nexus supported colonists. An alien race that depends on a time consuming and complicated process capturing and converting other species just to maintain their number acting like suicide shock troopers. The 'missing' Turian ark sitting in full view of an Exile HE3 mining installation the whole time.
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Post by clips7 on May 31, 2017 10:31:34 GMT
I agree with others here in that it is fair to compare the game to the trilogy. I came in on ME2 and 3 and whatever problems those games may have had (mainly 3's ending) I can see myself playing those games nultiple times and enjoying the experience. Andromeda's story and characters outside of it's character animation issues are lacking.
I never felt involved or moved by the story that is being told in Andromeda.....which is a shame because the open world felt organic and the visuals are outstanding, but there was some opportunities lost during it's story-telling elements and character development.
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Post by goishen on May 31, 2017 12:12:28 GMT
Said it before, say it again. If you want sausage, you gotta slaughter the pigs. I don't envy anybody at BioWare's writing team.
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Post by cypherj on May 31, 2017 12:29:34 GMT
I've never compared ME:A to the OT. I've always just compared the way ME:1 introduced you to the protagonist, characters, and universe to the way ME:A introduced you to them. ME:1 antagonists to ME:A antagonist, etc.
You don't even need to go outside the first game in comparison.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 31, 2017 12:50:19 GMT
I've never compared ME:A to the OT. I've always just compared the way ME:1 introduced you to the protagonist, characters, and universe to the way ME:A introduced you to them. ME:1 antagonists to ME:A antagonist, etc. You don't even need to go outside the first game in comparison. Or even the world building. ME 1 introduced us to a nuanced setting filled with both human and 'alien' elements. The narrative introduced us to multiple alien species, some very different from human norms in terms of perception and depiction, and all of this happened alongside exploration, combat, investigation dialogue, flirting/romance dialogue, a struggle against an antagonist who wielded a sense of danger and urgency, etc. I keep seeing people say that all the overlooked 'other' elements of Andromeda will (maybe) be expanded upon in future titles and that I shouldn't criticize Andromeda, but why if ME 1 touched base on all of these things?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 13:02:12 GMT
I've never compared ME:A to the OT. I've always just compared the way ME:1 introduced you to the protagonist, characters, and universe to the way ME:A introduced you to them. ME:1 antagonists to ME:A antagonist, etc. You don't even need to go outside the first game in comparison. Or even the world building. ME 1 introduced us to a nuanced setting filled with both human and 'alien' elements. The narrative introduced us to multiple alien species, some very different from human norms in terms of perception and depiction, and all of this happened alongside exploration, combat, investigation dialogue, flirting/romance dialogue, a struggle against an antagonist who wielded a sense of danger and urgency, etc. I keep seeing people say that all the overlooked 'other' elements of Andromeda will (maybe) be expanded upon in future titles and that I shouldn't criticize Andromeda, but why if ME 1 touched base on all of these things? I'll never understand why people were so enamoured with ME1's world building... the side mission planets were all basically mountainous rocks of different colors; set up that way just to make driving the mako a PITA. The alien species were all clearly based on human cultural stereotypes (nomadic (Arab) quarians; militaristic (Roman) turians; diplomatic (Canadian) Asari; Individualistic (American) krogan; financially oriented (Jewish) volus... etc. I would say that ME1's charm was based a lot on people experiencing a vague familiarity with everything that purported to be alien... not that it was actually alien.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 31, 2017 14:04:52 GMT
Or even the world building. ME 1 introduced us to a nuanced setting filled with both human and 'alien' elements. The narrative introduced us to multiple alien species, some very different from human norms in terms of perception and depiction, and all of this happened alongside exploration, combat, investigation dialogue, flirting/romance dialogue, a struggle against an antagonist who wielded a sense of danger and urgency, etc. I keep seeing people say that all the overlooked 'other' elements of Andromeda will (maybe) be expanded upon in future titles and that I shouldn't criticize Andromeda, but why if ME 1 touched base on all of these things? I'll never understand why people were so enamoured with ME1's world building... the side mission planets were all basically mountainous rocks of different colors; set up that way just to make driving the mako a PITA. The alien species were all clearly based on human cultural stereotypes (nomadic (Arab) quarians; militaristic (Roman) turians; diplomatic (Canadian) Asari; Individualistic (American) krogan; financially oriented (Jewish) volus... etc. I would say that ME1's charm was based a lot on people experiencing a vague familiarity with everything that purported to be alien... not that it was actually alien. Sure the side planets in ME 1 weren't much to look at or drive around in, but the world felt more nuanced, more put together. In Andromeda, yeah the maps are shinier, and easer to drive around in, but they're still fetch quest slogs and most of the game involves trekking from one map to another. The world building in Andromeda; world building in the sense of lore and background information; is a mess by comparison (IMO). There's no nuance to that one alien species you encounter who will actually talk to you; heck, the Angaran are even more human-like than the Asari; and the others: The Remnant and Khett? They are barely a step up from mindless loot bags to shoot for XP. We get what? A couple brief, throwaway, non-answers about the few things that aren't immediately relatable? The Remnant: "Wow, they can change an entire planet's climate in seconds… must be magic lolz"The Khett: "Eww, they change people into more of them. That's gross and wrong!"
The player is given no opportunity to investigate these things further. No dialogue trees or input from Ryder discussing these elements and hypothesizing on their nature. Almost as if the game was designed from the viewpoint that players don't actually want to learn more about science fiction facets of a science fiction game. Nope, gotta gather those ingredients for that 'Movie Night' the real reason why people play these kind of games. Which, considering that the unofficial tagline for Andromeda was: "Pretty Good Banging" it doesn't surprise me. As for the comparison to ME 1 and the 'alien' aliens you're forgetting the Thorian, Rachni, Elcor, and Hanar. Species that didn't match up quite as readily with human norms; yeah they weren't completely foreign to our understanding but they were different enough to warrant that 'alien' descriptor. ME 1 felt more diverse than Andromeda in this regard. Despite traveling 2.5 million light years, what we find is more familiar to us and our sensibilities than what was in our cosmic back yard. What's more, what little elements in Andromeda that are different are treated like cheap cardboard backdrops, or ignored entirely.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 14:28:28 GMT
I'll never understand why people were so enamoured with ME1's world building... the side mission planets were all basically mountainous rocks of different colors; set up that way just to make driving the mako a PITA. The alien species were all clearly based on human cultural stereotypes (nomadic (Arab) quarians; militaristic (Roman) turians; diplomatic (Canadian) Asari; Individualistic (American) krogan; financially oriented (Jewish) volus... etc. I would say that ME1's charm was based a lot on people experiencing a vague familiarity with everything that purported to be alien... not that it was actually alien. Sure the side planets in ME 1 weren't much to look at or drive around in, but the world felt more nuanced, more put together. In Andromeda, yeah the maps are shinier, and easer to drive around in, but they're still fetch quest slogs and most of the game involves trekking from one map to another. The world building in Andromeda; world building in the sense of lore and background information; is a mess by comparison (IMO). There's no nuance to that one alien species you encounter who will actually talk to you; heck, the Angaran are even more human-like than the Asari; and the others: The Remnant and Khett? They are barely a step up from mindless loot bags to shoot for XP. We get what? A couple brief, throwaway, non-answers about the few things that aren't immediately relatable? The Remnant: "Wow, they can change an entire planet's climate in seconds… must be magic lolz"The Khett: "Eww, they change people into more of them. That's gross and wrong!"
The player is given no opportunity to investigate these things further. No dialogue trees or input from Ryder discussing these elements and hypothesizing on their nature. Almost as if the game was designed from the viewpoint that players don't actually want to learn more about science fiction facets of a science fiction game. Nope, gotta gather those ingredients for that 'Movie Night' the real reason why people play these kind of games. Which, considering that the unofficial tagline for Andromeda was: "Pretty Good Banging" it doesn't surprise me. As for the comparison to ME 1 and the 'alien' aliens you're forgetting the Thorian, Rachni, Elcor, and Hanar. Species that didn't match up quite as readily with human norms; yeah they weren't completely foreign to our understanding but they were different enough to warrant that 'alien' descriptor. ME 1 felt more diverse than Andromeda in this regard. Despite traveling 2.5 million light years, what we find is more familiar to us and our sensibilities than what was in our cosmic back yard. What's more, what little elements in Andromeda that are different are treated like cheap cardboard backdrops, or ignored entirely. How specifically does the assorted different colored rocks on the planets in ME1 translate to "more nuanced" because, to me, it doesn't... it's the antithesis of being "nuanced." It's like saying changing the color of the sand in the desert planets in ME:A would make them feel more "nuanced" and more alien from each other... but I sincerely doubt that's all Bioware would need to do to quell the insane amount of criticism their getting over allegedly making all the Andromeda planets seem like desert environments. To me, they don't seem the same at all... but I'm perhaps paying mroe attention to the "nuances" of difference among them. As for the side missions on those ME1 planets... most of them were go there and killed some mercs in one of three different settings - warehouse, mine, or science facility. Exploring the planet translated to usually just finding a couple of minerals and a probe or two to loot. After a short number of playthroughs... most people just wind up skipping most of them and doing the couple that seemed a little different... like Binthu (which instead had us going to 3 facilities on one planet) or Luna (3 facilities in one group on one planet) or Eletania (which had us going to one probe then a mine with pyjaks in it). It only felt "diverse" because it was "different" from the others games being made at the same time. Nowadays, the environments have to stack up to so much more... coloring them differently doesn't make them different. We've had the discussion about the Elcor & Hanor before based on animal stereotypes commonly used to apply to human personalities... Elcor - sloths (a common stereotype for people who are unemotional/deliberate and who don't move very quickly; Rachni - spiders; insect-like hive minded cults (and we only ever talk to one representative); Hanor (jellyfish body model, personality typifying religious fanatics). Also... you're forgetting that ME1 was designed to allegedly represent the diversity of an entire galaxy. ME:A represents the diversity present in a single cluster. The potential for even greater diversity in upcoming instalments is immense... because we know we haven't even scratched the surface yet. We have so much more left to be introduced to down the road. However, you're stuck on complaining that ME:A isn't instantly the same as ME1; but how well really did ME1's world building represent the potential diversity of an entire galaxy... not very well, IMO.
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Post by OrbitalWings on May 31, 2017 14:33:37 GMT
This was honestly my reaction to a lot of the comparisons people were making.
It's always 'the trilogy' being compared to MEA, and let's not forget the OT is far more than just the games themselves - it's every tie-in, novel, DLC, and most importantly - the years as a fanbase we've had since the first game came out.
We've had ten years with most of the core OT characters - ten years of replays and fanart and theory crafting and headcanons and all that jazz, and that is what most people were holding the new characters and settings up against.
As others have said, I think it's only fair to compare MEA as a whole experience to ME1. ME2 & ME3 were able to do things MEA simply couldn't do because they were sequels with returning characters and story threads, wheras MEA had to split it's time between introducing an entirely new cast of characters, setting up the new franchise status quo and still telling a story of it's own, and all of that with the added handicap of having to differentiate itself from the games that had gone before.
I love the original trilogy to death and I always will, but I feel like a lot of the comparisons verge on unreasonable.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 31, 2017 15:07:22 GMT
I'll never understand why people were so enamoured with ME1's world building... the side mission planets were all basically mountainous rocks of different colors; set up that way just to make driving the mako a PITA. The alien species were all clearly based on human cultural stereotypes (nomadic (Arab) quarians; militaristic (Roman) turians; diplomatic (Canadian) Asari; Individualistic (American) krogan; financially oriented (Jewish) volus... etc. I would say that ME1's charm was based a lot on people experiencing a vague familiarity with everything that purported to be alien... not that it was actually alien. Sure the side planets in ME 1 weren't much to look at or drive around in, but the world felt more nuanced, more put together. In Andromeda, yeah the maps are shinier, and easer to drive around in, but they're still fetch quest slogs and most of the game involves trekking from one map to another. The same resources for each "planet" are used over and over again. The same bases, the same turrets, the same base interiors, the same mine shafts and mine chambers... to say there's more nuance doesn't really work. Most of the planets felt like resource filler or paragon/renegade point mining operations. They certainly didn't feel necessary or as a logical or essential part of the "race against time" narrative. It's cool if you don't like Andromeda, but it's a bit silly to make stuff up about ME1 to hate on it even more.
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Post by kino on May 31, 2017 15:10:07 GMT
It's to be expected. Some of the fans aren't going to want to leave the old games, and the characters, behind. It's why they're fans.
It doesn't make them wrong, but it definitely doesn't mean they're right, either.
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Post by vonuber on May 31, 2017 15:12:23 GMT
There's a lot of nuance in differently coloured skyboxes.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 31, 2017 15:24:19 GMT
As much as I'd prefer to compare Andromeda to any single Mass Effect game, the reality is that the trilogy is basically a package deal now. This comparison is inevitable.
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 31, 2017 15:27:21 GMT
I don't really view ME2 and 3 much different from each other. Narrative aside, both are watered down RPGs with a huge focus on action, my own biggest issues with those two when compared to ME1. Both streamlined the combat, took less focus off the dialogue, ME3 especially with the auto dialogue and while powers/abilities looked cool, they got downgraded. Theyre not really different games to me at all besides narrative.
As for the andromeda comparisons to the OT: I've said people do it way to much, and I'm sure I don't need to bring up why it's an issue since others already covered it. However, one can base it off on a one by one comparison, and ultimately I'll see Andromeda inferior to them just by the bland rehashed story and reusing what's already been done in their own franchise.
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Post by ioannisdenton on May 31, 2017 15:39:12 GMT
Comparing a single game to a a summary of three entire games is nonsense. Especially when those three games are very individual and the only thing truly connecting them is the narrative and lore. ME1 is a totally different game from ME2. And ME2 is vastly different from ME3. Anyone who played the trilogy straight through, one right after the other, can pick up the dissonance between them all no matter how small it is felt. "ME:A doesn't live up to the OT" well of course, you're pitting a single game experience, against three games that you're compounding as one. How are you supposed jam the essense of each OT game into one? (Actually I think that's likely what Bioware attempted to do here) i think once ME:A 2 comes out, everyone will start letting go of this rigid basis to comparing (essentially) a single game reboot of the series, to a rose-colored filtration of all the OT games squeezed into one compendium made of one's imagination. i noticed I was doing this myself when I was wondering why my Ryder wasn't an exact clone of Shepard. i like the argument that meA cast is boring but Me1's cast was better. Meanwhile liara, wrex, tali were literally codeces with legs.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 31, 2017 15:39:41 GMT
Sure the side planets in ME 1 weren't much to look at or drive around in, but the world felt more nuanced, more put together. In Andromeda, yeah the maps are shinier, and easer to drive around in, but they're still fetch quest slogs and most of the game involves trekking from one map to another. In fairness, this was something some felt was ME1's major weakness. The Race Against Time objective was greatly undermined by just how far you could go running off and doing relatively trivial things across far flung corners of the galaxy, like helping Helena Blake take down some riffraff in copypasta mineshafts and bunkers. Some missions would actually be ridiculously brief if the Normandy dropped the Mako maybe a few miles closer to our destination. And to fill the space, it was largely collection quests. As much as the shards of Inquisition got badmouthed for being a cruddy collection quest, the medals, writings, data drives and such were kind of worse. It wasn't until ME3 that the writings actually meant something. Granted, some missions were more than decent, but a great deal of time was padded with Mako travel, especially if you had to climb, which was very often.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 31, 2017 15:45:15 GMT
Sure the side planets in ME 1 weren't much to look at or drive around in, but the world felt more nuanced, more put together. In Andromeda, yeah the maps are shinier, and easer to drive around in, but they're still fetch quest slogs and most of the game involves trekking from one map to another. The same resources for each "planet" are used over and over again. The same bases, the same turrets, the same base interiors, the same mine shafts and mine chambers... to say there's more nuance doesn't really work. Most of the planets felt like resource filler or paragon/renegade point mining operations. They certainly didn't feel necessary or as a logical or essential part of the "race against time" narrative. It's cool if you don't like Andromeda, but it's a bit silly to make stuff up about ME1 to hate on it even more. For clarification, I wound up mixing up my thoughts on the aspect of world building and side mission planets in my original post vs. the narrative world building of both games. Yes, the side missions and gathering objectives were dull and lifeless in ME 1. Yes, the planets themselves were carbon copied, procedurally generated, slogs with the same set of reused assets and only with a change in sky box. To that point, yes, Andromeda does have a leg up on ME 1 in terms of world design being conductive to fun gameplay. My point of contention was the narrative world building between the two titles: in terms of lore, narrative conciseness and consistency, and sheer variety in how many different topics and themes are touched on with the myriad alien races and the like. ME 1 sets up an engaging setting, and then sprinkles it with aspects, both recognizable and foreign, that helps create this universe that feels nuanced; a place were humanity and our way of doing things is just a small part of a much larger whole. Andromeda doesn't have nearly that amount of diversity in it's setting. It's a bland universe populated with humans and humans in rubber suits and decides to focus far more on things that are recognizable than trying to set any real science fiction elements; outside of the aesthetics of space ships and laser guns at any rate. Everything else that could possibly be considered different is ignored or reduced to mindless monsters to kill for XP. The Rachni and Thorian might have been one off conversations, but at least ME 1 went out of it's way to point out the fact that the universe was more than just what we were comfortable with. In Andromeda, it's all about the romance points, all about setting up for that Movie Night etc.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: vomder
XBL Gamertag: killer of stars
PSN: vomder
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Post by vomder on May 31, 2017 15:48:52 GMT
Shouldn't the comparison really be about whether or not Bioware learned from past games and built on what worked?
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Post by Steelcan on May 31, 2017 15:51:39 GMT
Shouldn't the comparison really be about whether or not Bioware learned from past games and built on what worked? Well even in the category, MEA falls flat on its face
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Post by Steelcan on May 31, 2017 15:52:58 GMT
I think comparing the Andromeda to the whole of the OT is a little excessive, even if BioWare does invite the comparisons (and it took me as long to finish Andromeda as it does for me to run through the whole trilogy).
The problem is that it doesn't stack up on a game by game basis except perhaps to ME1 which it is so obviously trying to emulate.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 31, 2017 15:55:09 GMT
Sure the side planets in ME 1 weren't much to look at or drive around in, but the world felt more nuanced, more put together. In Andromeda, yeah the maps are shinier, and easer to drive around in, but they're still fetch quest slogs and most of the game involves trekking from one map to another. The world building in Andromeda; world building in the sense of lore and background information; is a mess by comparison (IMO). There's no nuance to that one alien species you encounter who will actually talk to you; heck, the Angaran are even more human-like than the Asari; and the others: The Remnant and Khett? They are barely a step up from mindless loot bags to shoot for XP. We get what? A couple brief, throwaway, non-answers about the few things that aren't immediately relatable? The Remnant: "Wow, they can change an entire planet's climate in seconds… must be magic lolz"The Khett: "Eww, they change people into more of them. That's gross and wrong!"
The player is given no opportunity to investigate these things further. No dialogue trees or input from Ryder discussing these elements and hypothesizing on their nature. Almost as if the game was designed from the viewpoint that players don't actually want to learn more about science fiction facets of a science fiction game. Nope, gotta gather those ingredients for that 'Movie Night' the real reason why people play these kind of games. Which, considering that the unofficial tagline for Andromeda was: "Pretty Good Banging" it doesn't surprise me. As for the comparison to ME 1 and the 'alien' aliens you're forgetting the Thorian, Rachni, Elcor, and Hanar. Species that didn't match up quite as readily with human norms; yeah they weren't completely foreign to our understanding but they were different enough to warrant that 'alien' descriptor. ME 1 felt more diverse than Andromeda in this regard. Despite traveling 2.5 million light years, what we find is more familiar to us and our sensibilities than what was in our cosmic back yard. What's more, what little elements in Andromeda that are different are treated like cheap cardboard backdrops, or ignored entirely. How specifically does the assorted different colored rocks on the planets in ME1 translate to "more nuanced" because, to me, it doesn't... it's the antithesis of being "nuanced." It's like saying changing the color of the sand in the desert planets in ME:A would make them feel more "nuanced" and more alien from each other... but I sincerely doubt that's all Bioware would need to do to quell the insane amount of criticism their getting over allegedly making all the Andromeda planets seem like desert environments. To me, they don't seem the same at all... but I'm perhaps paying mroe attention to the "nuances" of difference among them. As for the side missions on those ME1 planets... most of them were go there and killed some mercs in one of three different settings - warehouse, mine, or science facility. Exploring the planet translated to usually just finding a couple of minerals and a probe or two to loot. After a short number of playthroughs... most people just wind up skipping most of them and doing the couple that seemed a little different... like Binthu (which instead had us going to 3 facilities on one planet) or Luna (3 facilities in one group on one planet) or Eletania (which had us going to one probe then a mine with pyjaks in it). It only felt "diverse" because it was "different" from the others games being made at the same time. Nowadays, the environments have to stack up to so much more... coloring them differently doesn't make them different. We've had the discussion about the Elcor & Hanor before based on animal stereotypes commonly used to apply to human personalities... Elcor - sloths (a common stereotype for people who are unemotional/deliberate and who don't move very quickly; Rachni - spiders; insect-like hive minded cults (and we only ever talk to one representative); Hanor (jellyfish body model, personality typifying religious fanatics). Also... you're forgetting that ME1 was designed to allegedly represent the diversity of an entire galaxy. ME:A represents the diversity present in a single cluster. The potential for even greater diversity in upcoming instalments is immense... because we know we haven't even scratched the surface yet. We have so much more left to be introduced to down the road. However, you're stuck on complaining that ME:A isn't instantly the same as ME1; but how well really did ME1's world building represent the potential diversity of an entire galaxy... not very well, IMO. Yeah sorry, my original post was a bit wonky on that part with the gameplay world building vs. the narrative world building. See my response to Faceman for the specifics. Anyways, in regards to your last point, especially the bolded portion. Why shouldn't I expect Andromeda to showcase the same level of diversity and nuance in a starter title to a new series if ME 1 could do it? Why is it a bad thing to criticize a game for having little to no 'alien' or science fiction elements to it, and to just be expected to sit and wait for future content to possibly, expand on said elements when the ME 1 did all of that in a single game?
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