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Post by decafhigh on Jun 1, 2017 0:33:25 GMT
And how would you describe then? Faith is belief in something with no proof. how can some one be able to justify belief among world were they can travel stars with science?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 0:33:48 GMT
What? They said all religions are crazy and then discussed it. So yes. And? Even if they said so they are entitled to their opinion. Its free speech, right?
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 1, 2017 0:36:02 GMT
TC, are you a poe?
First you claim that a game is "anti-Christian" because it does not cater to your specific religion.
Then you accuse people who disagree with you of making fun of your religion.
You accuse people who point out your blatant factual inaccuracies of being "anti-Christian".
You start ranting about the "SJW" boogeyman and people hating Christianity because reasons.
It's like every negative internet Christian stereotype rolled into one. It's all a little too on the nose.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 1, 2017 0:38:07 GMT
And how would you describe then? Faith is belief in something with no proof. how can some one be able to justify belief among world were they can travel stars with science? but that's only because we don't understand anything close to everything yet. Hell, we barely know why gravity works. I'll give you this...It does come off as condescending. But how else with no foot hold to justify it?
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Post by kino on Jun 1, 2017 0:40:01 GMT
Better question; is BioWare anti-religious, because there's more to religion than just Christianity in our world.
And, no, nothing I saw was "anti-religion". Also wasn't "pro-religion", but certainly not anti anything.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 1, 2017 0:40:44 GMT
TC, are you a poe? First you claim that a game is "anti-Christian" because it does not cater to your specific religion. Then you accuse people who disagree with you of making fun of your religion. You accuse people who point out your blatant factual inaccuracies of being "anti-Christian". You start ranting about the "SJW" boogeyman and people hating Christianity because reasons. It's like every negative internet Christian stereotype rolled into one. It's all a little too on the nose. I truly have a hard time believing in the original post or the original poster. The username seems to be created just for this. @passionparty: I call you a troll, because you asked for analysis. I provided it, and you eyerolled and ignored my post entirely saying that I would understand if I even just read things "for a few minutes." Fail.
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Post by R'Shara on Jun 1, 2017 0:42:36 GMT
It says the op has hundreds of posts *shrug*
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 1, 2017 0:43:15 GMT
but that's only because we don't understand anything close to everything yet. Hell, we barely know why gravity works. I'll give you this...It does come off as condescending. But how else with no foot hold to justify it? Well, to answer that we would have to step outside discussion of the game which I don't want to do because internet discussions of religion are pointless. If someone doesn't want to have faith that is their choice. I just didn't appreciate the way MEA presented their religious story points for the reasons I described and I'll leave it at that.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 1, 2017 0:47:17 GMT
but that's only because we don't understand anything close to everything yet. Hell, we barely know why gravity works. I'll give you this...It does come off as condescending. But how else with no foot hold to justify it? Well, to answer that we would have to step outside discussion of the game which I don't want to do because internet discussions of religion are pointless. If someone doesn't want to have faith that is their choice. I just didn't appreciate the way MEA presented their religious story points for the reasons I described and I'll leave it at that. Ok...And with that i say you have a valid point and reason to be ageist how bw protreyed religion in MEA.
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Post by Sah291 on Jun 1, 2017 0:48:59 GMT
I think BioWare just tends to assume a vaguely secular and/or agnostic audience... as most mainstream media does, unless specifically dealing with religious themes or target audiences. But it's also a trope that goes hand in hand with the whole Heroes Journey/Chosen One narrative in Fantasy/Scifi genre, where the protagonist doesn't generally start off with any strong belief or purpose, and then goes through a journey of self discovery, and answering of "the call," before ultimately becoming the "chosen one." Therefore, such ideas tend to be treated as a new revelation to the protagonist. So like reincarnation, most players would be familiar enough to know what that means right, but Ryder sort of acts like he/she hasn't ever thought about it before until their experience with the Angara. But anyway, why would Ryder be necessarily limited to human religions in the first place? It's canon the twins grew up on the Citadel, where they would have been exposed to many other alien cultures. And I'm willing to bet Cora is well versed in Asari beliefs too.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 1, 2017 0:50:14 GMT
Well, to answer that we would have to step outside discussion of the game which I don't want to do because internet discussions of religion are pointless. If someone doesn't want to have faith that is their choice. I just didn't appreciate the way MEA presented their religious story points for the reasons I described and I'll leave it at that. Ok...And with that i say you have a valid point and reason to be ageist how bw protreyed religion in MEA. Thanks. Not trying to be a party pooper, just that discussion is more suited to the Off-Topic area and there is a reason I avoid those discussions. No one is going to do anything except end up mad at each other.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 1, 2017 0:51:37 GMT
Again, characterizing faith as belief in the absence of (or even contrary to) evidence doesn't necessarily betray any lack of understanding, unless you want to say that some of the most important Christian thinkers, both past and present, "don't have any understanding of what faith actually means". Faith as belief in God despite insufficient evidence/proof is a fideistic, typically Protestant conception of faith, so its far from universally accepted, but it still has a perfectly solid pedigree in Christian theology (one can find traces of it in early Christians like Paul, Augustine, or Tertullian, its full-blown and explicit in protestant theologians like Luther and Calvin and religious philosophers like Kierkegaard and Kant, and it continues to be represented by present-day theologians like the Presuppositionalists, or even to an extent in Plantinga). Even if you disagree with this conception of faith, its not really a matter of ignorance vs. understanding, the nature of faith is a legitimate dispute within Christian theology and the philosophy of religion. And did any of them say "yep we are all deluding ourselves, that's what faith is"? If not I don't see how any of that refutes my objection to the Suvi dialogue. Ryder and Suvi describe faith as belief in the absence of proof/evidence, a usage common among even Christian theologians as I've noted. I suppose that, at most, you could still object to Suvi's subsequent use of the word "delude" (and even that's not as far away from some of the comments about faith made by e.g. Paul, or Tertullian, or Luther, as you might expect)... but obviously your objection to their substantive definition of faith only stands if you're willing to level that same accusation at folks who use the very same definition, like Luther and Kierkegaard and all the rest (which isn't super duper credible).
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 1, 2017 0:54:30 GMT
I think BioWare just tends to assume a vaguely secular and/or agnostic audience... as most mainstream media does, unless specifically dealing with religious themes or target audiences. But it's also a trope that goes hand in hand with the whole Heroes Journey/Chosen One narrative in Fantasy/Scifi genre, where the protagonist doesn't generally start off with any strong belief or purpose, and then goes through a journey of self discovery, and answering of "the call," before ultimately becoming the "chosen one." Therefore, such ideas tend to be treated as a new revelation to the protagonist. So like reincarnation, most players would be familiar enough to know what that means right, but Ryder sort of acts like he/she hasn't ever thought about it before until their experience with the Angara. But anyway, why would Ryder be necessarily limited to human religions in the first place? It's canon the twins grew up on the Citadel, where they would have been exposed to many other alien cultures. And I'm willing to bet Cora is well versed in Asari beliefs too. Can you imagine Cora trying to go to a prayer session for Athame? "Oh goddess, it's her again."
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Post by bshep on Jun 1, 2017 0:57:47 GMT
Wonder why i decided to read this thread.... 10 minutes of my life lost.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 0:59:05 GMT
What? They said all religions are crazy and then discussed it. So yes. And? Even if they said so they are entitled to their opinion. Its free speech, right? I didn't say they can't think that I asked them not to say it in my thread which is not about their opinions on Andromeda. It's not about religion in general especially when I made tentopic complaining about it offending me and theirnfirst idea isntonmake it worse. Ugh nt my head aches. Dyslexia. I know i can't tyoenso sorry for readers. Whatever I alreadybsaid I'm don't talking about it anyway so you should have been leaving me alone ^-^
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 1, 2017 1:08:00 GMT
And how would you describe then? Faith is belief in something with no proof. how can some one be able to justify belief among world were they can travel stars with science? That gif doesn't answer the question. Is Heisenberg really saying that natural science prove the existence of God?
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 1, 2017 1:16:10 GMT
That gif doesn't answer the question. It suggests that Heisenberg had an answer, or thought he did, but doesn't say what it was. It does if you understand physics. The issue is that when you start to learning physics to get answers...but once you start mastering it you find out no one really has answers and don't really know why everything works...just that it works and how it works. So would left with nothing but the faith that everything will continue to work even though you don't no why it works. Thus science leads to faith.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 1, 2017 1:16:57 GMT
That gif doesn't answer the question. It suggests that Heisenberg had an answer, or thought he did, but doesn't say what it was. It does if you understand physics. oh brother
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 1, 2017 1:18:06 GMT
Is Heisenberg really saying that natural science prove the existence of God? Wouldn't be the first scientist to express such a ludicrously naive philosophical or theological position... if anything, when scientists hold forth on such topics they usually just end up demonstrating why its best to stay in one's own lane
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 1, 2017 1:18:14 GMT
It does if you understand physics. oh brother
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Post by LilTIM on Jun 1, 2017 1:18:25 GMT
Well besides religion being nowadays obvious flame-bait material for edgy internet warriors... back in ME1 the devs explicitely avoided mentioning specific human religions, it was just in general being religious or not.
Suvi seems to have a sort new age religion thing going on, her beliefs aren't really explained because she isn't in the game for that. What i mean is that she is a scientis with the little quirk of "religious", that's how bioware sees it. There isn't a lot more depth than that.
It's just another tick in the notebook of token characters - by adding her they can say: "look we represent everyone on our games". As that is what the neo-left demands now, and by pressure, companies like BW are giving it to them. However it's pretty good PR for their target demographic - teenagers, and all the social media who feeds them this stuff.
To the OP, it should be obvious by now that this neo-left dogma has no room for tolerance outside of what they find acceptable, so if you are crhistian it prety much means: "you are dumb and primitive, you have no place here". You won't get anything valuable of any discussion here, except being bullied for not conforming to their "new norm".
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 1, 2017 1:21:07 GMT
oh brother Exactly.. Its like Stephen Hawking coming up with philosophical arguments about why philosophy is useless (lolfail): these guys need to just stick to what they're good at, and stay away from what they're not.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 1, 2017 1:21:10 GMT
Is Heisenberg really saying that natural science prove the existence of God? Wouldn't be the first scientist to express such a ludicrously naive philosophical or theological position... if anything, when scientists hold forth on such topics they usually just end up demonstrating why its best to stay in one's own lane here's the thing. We know gravity works. We have faith that tomorrow and so one gravity works.....but we don't know why it works and barely know how it works. But we still always believe it will work with little to know proof. That's his point.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 1, 2017 1:22:26 GMT
Exactly.. Its like Stephen Hawking coming up with philosophical arguments about why philosophy is useless (lolfail): these guys need to just stick to what they're good at, and stay away from what they're not. no not that. the joke is science leading to faith because in the end we still don't know how or why thing in physics works.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 1, 2017 1:29:42 GMT
Exactly.. Its like Stephen Hawking coming up with philosophical arguments about why philosophy is useless (lolfail): these guys need to just stick to what they're good at, and stay away from what they're not. no not that. the joke is science leading to faith because in the end we still don't know how or why thing in physics works. Its not what? Its a silly and naive notion that shows that he's out of his depth on the topic (like Hawking's idea about using philosophy to argue against using philosophy). Being a brilliant scientist doesn't preclude being a piss-poor theologian or philosopher, so just stick to do what you do best.
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