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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 19:46:38 GMT
I asked this because in Mass Effect Shepard could be religious.
In Andromeda Ryder can't be. You have to tell Suvi either she is delusional for having faith (which she gleeful agrees to) or say that god is a robot which she is happy with.
You can't believe in heaven you can only refuse to believe your mom's soul is lost.
Shepard is also analogous for Jesus while Andromeda's main bad guys are the religious aliens, and no humans have faith except Suvi who isn't like any religion in earth.
Why does the new team just not want us to be able to choose? I don't expect them to be as straightforward as mass effect but I hate that we just don't get the choice and they don't allow us to be religious, and at the same time make the game itself talk down religion.
I have seen lots of discussion about this and other parts of the Bioware agenda (some say Hudson wanted a religious story and now Bioware is over compensation) as part of the bigger discussion on Bioware political agenda (there are links to devs making supposedly hateful comments to men but they are men, so idk.) some people go as far as to say the women in the game don't look like waifus means that Bioware wants to support she's because she's don't like traditional women (which is offensive on SJW part too when they are the ones who don't want to be offensive) so all of that is a mess on both sides and we should keep it out of this topic please! I just wanted to discuss one particular issue.
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Post by vonuber on May 31, 2017 19:50:02 GMT
Let's hope so, and that it is not just Christianity; all religion is bollocks frankly.
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 19:58:21 GMT
My first Ryder told her she was religious...
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Post by samhain444 on May 31, 2017 19:58:28 GMT
Pretty sure there was a crew board posting about "religious observance" group that included Suvi, Kallo, and Jaal (?). I think there are those that are religious but the narrative doesn't really delve into it like your conversations with Suvi.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 31, 2017 20:01:08 GMT
Having no direct references to the basic things that specifically define Christianity doesn't make anything anti-Christian any more than it would be against any other religion.
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Post by Kabraxal on May 31, 2017 20:04:58 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that?
And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:05:42 GMT
Having no direct references to the basic things that specifically define Christianity doesn't make anything anti-Christian any more than it would be against any other religion. And I'm not saying it does. But not only can you not choose to be, they give the option to talk about God and you ether call faith delusional or say god is a robot. They let ya talk about Heaven but all you can say is "I refuse to believe the dead are just gone" not that you have any faith just that you're in denial |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:05:59 GMT
I didn't feel it that way, I think you're overreacting and there's also no reason to focus on christianity. Religion or spirituality in general has never been much developed in the first Mass Effect trilogy as well. It would have been interesting to learn more about what the different races believe in, but, like in other science fiction productions, the emphasis is obviously rather put on the technological aspects.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:06:27 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Inquisition demonized the Chantry/Tenplars which is the closest christianity that works has. |
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Post by caterpillar on May 31, 2017 20:09:21 GMT
It's interesting that you equate 'religious' with 'Christian' when there are many other religions a person can be religious about. And I think that's a big part of why Bioware stays kind of vague about it in discussing it. They give you an opportunity to have your Ryder or Shephard express some level of belief in something spiritual without narrowing it down to one religion. And even in doing that, they lean toward the monotheistic religions.
I made one of my Ryders a Buddhist, and her discussions with Suvi felt okay. Ryder never said anything that would contradict her faith, at least. In talking with the angaran priestess about reincarnation, Ryder said something like 'reincarnation is a nice idea' and that felt really off for someone whose faith actually includes reincarnation. So, is Bioware against Buddhism?
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 20:09:41 GMT
Um.. wat? You have the option of agreeing with Suvi, that a god exists. So, you can be religious. Just not explicitly Christian (as opposed to some other form of theism). But obviously, as Kaisershep points out, not including explicitly Christian dialogue options or choices=/= being anti-Christian, not even a little bit (that's sort of a doozy of a non-sequitur).
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 20:10:16 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Yeah I want to know that as well. There was "I believe" or "I don't believe" basically. Also I give it a day before this thread breaks. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:16:21 GMT
It's interesting that you equate 'religious' with 'Christian' when there are many other religions a person can be religious about. And I think that's a big part of why Bioware stays kind of vague about it in discussing it. They give you an opportunity to have your Ryder or Shephard express some level of belief in something spiritual without narrowing it down to one religion. And even in doing that, they lean toward the monotheistic religions. I made one of my Ryders a Buddhist, and her discussions with Suvi felt okay. Ryder never said anything that would contradict her faith, at least. In talking with the angaran priestess about reincarnation, Ryder said something like 'reincarnation is a nice idea' and that felt really off for someone whose faith actually includes reincarnation. So, is Bioware against Buddhism? The entire Turian Faith is based on Buddhism though modified. I know religion isny always Christianity. But the reason I ask about Christianity is Ryder can NOT talk about the Christian God without calling the only human who is religious and believes in some sort of god delusional and her agreeing. Or saying that god (the singular god, Christian Muslim or Jewish usually) is a mahine. The fact is they shifted from MassEffect 1-3 which had many allusions to the Bible time and time again where Shepard was like the second coming of Jesus a that point. Thsts why t make sense to tone it down but suddenly religious=evil Kett and a girl who calls herself delusional for having faith. Even say "I wasn't calling you delusional" and she will say "you didn't mean to but oh did and I think it's comforting" so the only religious standpoint you get is "they're delusional but they like it" if the only jrogan we met was morda wed say "they're violent but they like it that way". That's how Bioware is treating Monotheist religions that are likely Christianity or Judaism so now what youre you're saying is Eder can be Buddhist and it works mostly well. Well ryder CANT be Christian. She isn't allowed to believe in god or heaven, she says "maybe j have some kinda faith I guess" "faith is delusional kinda" "god is machine" then acts in denial. She doesn't believe in heaven she just doesn't want to believe in permanent death |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:18:22 GMT
Um.. wat? You have the option of agreeing with Suvi, that a god exists. So, you can be religious. Just not explicitly Christian (as opposed to some other form of theism). But obviously, as Kaisershep points out, not including explicitly Christian dialogue options or choices=/= being anti-Christian, not even a little bit (that's sort of a doozy of a non-sequitur). Itsblike y'all read the title and alwnated to make fun of the Christian girl  I didn't say my problem is ignoring Christianity I said in the first post my problem was with how they treated god after the first conversation. Ya gotta call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. One or the other. Then for heaven you either say "death is death" or "I refuse to believe she is dead" that ain't believeing in heaven that's just denial. |
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 20:18:26 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Inquisition demonized the Chantry/Tenplars which is the closest christianity that works has. it really didn't. Dragon Age and Bioware has one of the most balanced representations of religion in modern media. Just compare the chantry to the faith militant from game of thrones. And for every Meredith or chancellor roderick there is a Cullen, Evangeline, Grand mother Elithina or Madame Giselle. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:18:33 GMT
Let's hope so, and that it is not just Christianity; all religion is bollocks frankly. What do you base your analysis on ? I'm not trying to engage into a long metaphysical debate, but I'm genuinely curious to know why people think the way they think... |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:19:25 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Yeah I want to know that as well. There was "I believe" or "I don't believe" basically. Also I give it a day before this thread breaks. Towards the end of the game Suvi has a crisis of faith and you must either say she is delusional for having faith which inspires her to delude herself further or say God is a machine which makes her content thinking that her religion is actually robots and she is okay with that. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:20:46 GMT
Honestly I think the OP has more of an agenda/bias than BioWare does. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:22:09 GMT
Inquisition demonized the Chantry/Tenplars which is the closest christianity that works has. it really didn't. Dragon Age and Bioware has one of the most balanced representations of religion in modern media. Just compare the chantry to the faith militant from game of thrones. And for every Meredith or chancellor roderick there is a Cullen, Evangeline, Grand mother Elithina or Madame Giselle. Agreed, my dwarf had a quiet belief that grew as the game went on. I thought it was handled really well and I appreciated having that middle ground. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:22:10 GMT
Inquisition demonized the Chantry/Tenplars which is the closest christianity that works has. it really didn't. Dragon Age and Bioware has one of the most balanced representations of religion in modern media. Just compare the chantry to the faith militant from game of thrones. And for every Meredith or chancellor roderick there is a Cullen, Evangeline, Grand mother Elithina or Madame Giselle. All portrayed as good people doing bad things. Cullen is getting off drugs and learning to hate the circle |
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Post by Kabraxal on May 31, 2017 20:23:36 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Inquisition demonized the Chantry/Tenplars which is the closest christianity that works has. That says more about your opinion on religion since Inquisiioj lets you choose how to react. You are missing the fact Bioware is making no definitive claim and lettimg the player decide. |
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 20:23:46 GMT
Isn't Shepard possibly being religious solely an artifact of Ashley being religious? Is there any dialogue about that which isn't with her?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:25:20 GMT
Inquisition demonized the Chantry/Tenplars which is the closest christianity that works has. That says more about your opinion on religion since Inquisiioj lets you choose how to react. You are missing the fact Bioware is making no definitive claim and lettimg the player decide. Not this time they didn't. They don't let you believe in heaven no matter what dialogue you pick. Or let you even say "the afterlife" or let you believe in god at the end |
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 20:26:29 GMT
Yeah I want to know that as well. There was "I believe" or "I don't believe" basically. Also I give it a day before this thread breaks. Towards the end of the game Suvi has a crisis of faith and you must either say she is delusional for having faith which inspires her to delude herself further or say God is a machine which makes her content thinking that her religion is actually robots and she is okay with that. Yeah I just watched that scene and that is not what is implied at all. |
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 20:26:33 GMT
it really didn't. Dragon Age and Bioware has one of the most balanced representations of religion in modern media. Just compare the chantry to the faith militant from game of thrones. And for every Meredith or chancellor roderick there is a Cullen, Evangeline, Grand mother Elithina or Madame Giselle. All portrayed as good people doing bad things. Cullen is getting off drugs and learning to hate the circle aka most normal people throughout the history of the world. And the circle is bad. |
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I didn't say my problem is ignoring Christianity I said in the first post my problem was with how they treated god after the first conversation. Ya gotta call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. One or the other. Then for heaven you either say "death is death" or "I refuse to believe she is dead" that ain't believeing in heaven that's just denial. 