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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 21:42:16 GMT
So when the next Mass Effect game insults religion in general it was especially noticeable  how did MEA "insult religion in general"? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:45:51 GMT
So when the next Mass Effect game insults religion in general it was especially noticeable how did MEA "insult religion in general"? Suvi said religious people including herself delude themselves into believeing. Alternatively you call God a robot. There are no other religious humans and no Christian like perspective. The prisnry religion we see is the Kett which is evil and murderous tendencies and we kill them for their religion |
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Post by caterpillar on May 31, 2017 21:52:23 GMT
how did MEA "insult religion in general"? Suvi said religious people including herself delude themselves into believeing. Alternatively you call God a robot. There are no other religious humans and no Christian like perspective. The prisnry religion we see is the Kett which is evil and murderous tendencies and we kill them for their religion We kill them because they shoot at us first. We start killing them long before we learn about the religious aspect of their exaltation thing. And then we kill them because if we don't, they will turn us into Kett against our will. And, they shoot at us if we just stand there and try to hand them pamphlets about tolerance. |
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 21:52:26 GMT
To make a long story short, I wouldn't play any game that rubs christianity in my face. Nor any other religion for that matter. I'm fine with religious themes and persons being included, but religion should take the backseat. This isn't a proselytizing game, but an action RPG with many elements included.
I said it in another thread. If the developers listened to all the complaints over some minor event in the game, the result would be like the prank call to the pizza delivery, where everyone asks to leave some ingredient out until there's no pizza left.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:56:09 GMT
Because in ME universe like 99% of the people don't believe in religions only use catch phrases like "spirits!" or "by the godess". If they were against it they wouldn't have made the main religion of DA basically a Christianity replica
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 21:56:21 GMT
I think people are forgetting that even though the main characters have different choices in how they behave and react, they're still defined characters in what those choices are. You can't make the Ryder's something the game doesn't allow you to, unless you want to use your imagination (feel free).
The Ryders are not, at least explicitly, Christian. Suvi technically isn't either. At no point does she mention Jesus or a denomination of her faith.
These things are purposely kept vague to keep things inclusive, but once again, these are (mostly) defined characters.
On a more personal note, it bugs me when religious people create a persecution complex because some type of media doesn't fit within their very narrow worldview, in this case the ommission of Christianity or Christian references somehow means its anti-Christian. It's silly, and frankly, selfish.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:57:07 GMT
Because in ME universe like 99% of the people don't believe in religions only use catch phrases like "spirits!" or "by the godess". If they were against it they wouldn't have made the main religion of DA basically a Christianity replica Different teams |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:00:51 GMT
Because in ME universe like 99% of the people don't believe in religions only use catch phrases like "spirits!" or "by the godess". If they were against it they wouldn't have made the main religion of DA basically a Christianity replica Different teams Same idealogies |
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 22:02:16 GMT
how did MEA "insult religion in general"? Suvi said religious people including herself delude themselves into believeing. Alternatively you call God a robot. There are no other religious humans and no Christian like perspective. The prisnry religion we see is the Kett which is evil and murderous tendencies and we kill them for their religion I don't believe that Ryder literally calls god a robot. Provide a link to a video of that conversation, please- I strongly suspect you're misrepresenting what was actually said. And saying god is a robot wouldn't be an insult to religion in general anyways- even if being called a robot is insulting to god (its not obvious that being called a robot is an insult, it would depend on the context), there are religions which do not believe in a singular god (so saying "god is a robot" wouldn't even make sense), and even some religions which do not believe in god/gods at all (some forms of Buddhism, for instance). So, no way its insulting to religion in general, even if it actually happened. Similarly, Suvi saying she deludes herself into believing (if true) would be, at most, insulting to monotheistic religion, not religion in general... and even that's a pretty massive stretch. |
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:05:05 GMT
again my Ryder said they specifically believed in God to suvi. I'm talking about after the big revelations at the end. Ryder can no longer believe in god and says god is a machine or that Suvi is delusional that is not Ryder's only response. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:05:57 GMT
Heavy late game spoilers.
Y'all are right she doesn't say he's an AI she said He's mortal and she okay with that.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:06:51 GMT
I'm talking about after the big revelations at the end. Ryder can no longer believe in god and says god is a machine or that Suvi is delusional that is not Ryder's only response. There are two. Either the delusional or to say God is simply Mortal or a whole species. |
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:07:08 GMT
Heavy late game spoilers. Y'all are right she doesn't say he's an AI she said He's mortal and she okay with that. and? |
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 22:07:51 GMT
And that's why we don't do this sort of thread without links, people.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 22:08:27 GMT
Okay, so those are her beliefs. She's a character, that's her stance.
There's also the real possibility that as humans have progressed more heavily in science and space travel that religion has fallen to the wayside, or into a minority. Look at Star Trek for example.
Your stance does not require game developers to make a character that is exactly what you want them to believe. You can choose to agree or disagree with that stance, but under no circumstances does it make you a victim, nor is it anti-Christian. Your search for persecution here is futile.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:08:28 GMT
that is not Ryder's only response. There are two. Either the delusional or to say God is simply Mortal or a whole species. And how does that go against Christianity? All it;s say is that god could be finite. |
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 22:08:40 GMT
"you'll find a way" "that's what faith is" Yeah, not condescending at all there.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:12:48 GMT
Okay, so those are her beliefs. She's a character, that's her stance. There's also the real possibility that as humans hav progressed more heavily in science and space travel that religion has fallen to the wayside, or into a minority. Look at Star Trek for example. Your stance does not require game developers to make a character that is exactly what you want them to believe. You can choose to agree or disagree with that stance, but under no circumstances does it make you a victim, nor is it anti-Christian. Your search for persecution here is futile. Ryder's choices are to disagree and stop believing (if she agreed to in the first place) or to say "yes god is a mortal". I'm not mad that Suvi has different opinions than I do I'm upset because not only is there no Christian perspective, and not only does the closest thing we have end up being a woman who believes in an unspecified religion but also thinks she is delusional and is convinced God is mortal, but Ryder can't say anything about that. ryder can't be Christian. Or Jewish. Or Muslim. Or apparently Buddhist. Yes that's a problem for me. im no more and no less a victim than the men who want to kiss a male alien. I am stuck playing a character unsatisfactory because the developers don't want christianity. The only differences is they care about the gay community and are fixing it. They care about the trans community and are fixin it. They dont care about me  |
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Post by Wulfram on May 31, 2017 22:13:34 GMT
Ryder should be allowed to be Siari
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:13:44 GMT
There are two. Either the delusional or to say God is simply Mortal or a whole species. And how does that go against Christianity? All it;s say is that god could be finite. How does it not? It's saying all of Christianity is wrong and whoever you worship is dead not some creator who loves and cares for you. He didn't made the universe he just made you. It completely goes agaisnt Christianity |
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 22:16:24 GMT
Heavy late game spoilers. Y'all are right she doesn't say he's an AI she said He's mortal and she okay with that. So all she says is that learning the Angarans origin makes her question IF god could be mortal... and that she ultimately doesn't believe that because she has faith. Nothing about god being a robot, and not really anything insulting to theism or Christianity (much less religion in general); what Suvi and Ryder say about faith here isn't anything worse/different than what countless (Christian) theologians have said about faith themselves: faith is frequently defined as a leap above and beyond what the evidence or logic alone can establish. And again, since not all religion involves a singular god (or any gods for that matter) or the Christian notion of faith being insulting to all religion isn't even a possibility here. |
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:17:36 GMT
how did MEA "insult religion in general"? Suvi said religious people including herself delude themselves into believeing. Alternatively you call God a robot. There are no other religious humans and no Christian like perspective. The prisnry religion we see is the Kett which is evil and murderous tendencies and we kill them for their religion No, modern christian like perspective. Not that that particular perspective has changed over time. It use to be a bunch of guys arguing over if jesus was a man or not and the statement of the body of Christ had to be put every were just nail down that point. Then it was dedication through poverty, duty, combat, loyalty....etc. Over the years that changed. You're just arguing over bits of dogma that change over the ages that really have nothing to do with religion. And you think people in the future are going to have the same look at religion as you do? You missed the point here that the argument is that god may be finite a thing most modern christian are afraid to even ask let alone think and the people in these game have expanded so far that actually dare to ask. |
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 22:18:02 GMT
They would really be better off to just leave the whole topic alone if this is the best writing they can do. "Yeah that's what faith is". Whoever the writer was for these conversations clearly doesn't have any understanding of what "faith" actually means and the whole message comes off as "if you do have faith you are just fooling yourself".
Don't want to get into a big theological debate here, if you really want to know what it means to "have faith" look it up yourself. The point is, like with the trans-lady they had to redact, if they don't know anything about the topic they would be better off not trying to shoehorn it into their game.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:19:02 GMT
Heavy late game spoilers. Y'all are right she doesn't say he's an AI she said He's mortal and she okay with that. So all she says is that learning the Angarans origin makes her question IF god could be mortal... and that she ultimately doesn't believe that because she has faith. Nothing about god being a robot, and not really anything insulting to theism or Christianity (much less religion in general); what Suvi and Ryder say about faith here isn't anything worse/different than what countless (Christian) theologians have said about faith themselves: faith is frequently defined as a leap above and beyond what the evidence or logic alone can establish. And again, since not all religion involves a singular god (or any gods for that matter) or the Christian notion of faith being insulting to all religion isn't even a possibility here. You truly are half reading me. In that very post I admitted I was wrong to say robot. She is callin Him Mortal (which is just as bad but still I was wrong). Faith is absolute trust those who call it without logic generally either embrace that they don't need to know or want to insult it but it doesn't have to be and the Bible actually makes sense if you don't just read the parts taken out of context online. And j didn't say this scene insults all religion I've been talkin about the Kett too. Why only read half of what I say if you want to argue about it with me? |
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:21:19 GMT
Suvi: The discovery of the angaran origins have made me think hard about creation. If the Jardaan were capable of creating life, then what does that say about God?
Ryder: You're wondering if he could be just a scientist?
Suvi: What if our creator was just like the Jardaan. Advanced, but mortal, fallible.
Ryder: If you want to keep believing in a higher power who isn't just an advanced species, you'll find a way. You haven't had proof of a god before now. Why would this change that? Your faith will bridge the gap.
Suvi (skeptically):Uh huh. You're saying I'll find some way to convince or delude myself.
Ryder (awkwardly): No, I wasn't really saying that
Suvi: Ryder, don't be silly. Even if you didn't mean it, you were. That's what faith is. And I'm okay with that. I want to believe in something bigger than I am, so I will. Strangely, that makes me feel better about the whole thing.
Other than the usual cringeworthiness of the dialogue, and Ryder's mediocre voice acting, I don't see any anti-anything here.
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how did MEA "insult religion in general"? 
