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Post by Serza on May 31, 2017 20:53:25 GMT
Yeah I agree as in DA thje Andratrian religion kind of feel a lot like Christianity tbh if yo take certain things into account like we have the Maker which is their God and then twe have Andraste which was effectively the Jesus of their world becau8se ultimately I think that's all Jesus was a messenger in a way just like Andraste was in DA. Obviously it is different in that DA has magic and is a mduieval fantasy based world but the underlying faith is very similar I think. But i just see the question facing Ryder when Suvi's posing the question is do they believe in God themselves or not? I've played my Ryder's both ways but my current Sara believes. Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim. Mind giving me a crashcourse of similarities? It's been a while since I visited Thedas.
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Post by caterpillar on May 31, 2017 20:55:06 GMT
It's interesting that you equate 'religious' with 'Christian' when there are many other religions a person can be religious about. And I think that's a big part of why Bioware stays kind of vague about it in discussing it. They give you an opportunity to have your Ryder or Shephard express some level of belief in something spiritual without narrowing it down to one religion. And even in doing that, they lean toward the monotheistic religions. I made one of my Ryders a Buddhist, and her discussions with Suvi felt okay. Ryder never said anything that would contradict her faith, at least. In talking with the angaran priestess about reincarnation, Ryder said something like 'reincarnation is a nice idea' and that felt really off for someone whose faith actually includes reincarnation. So, is Bioware against Buddhism? The entire Turian Faith is based on Buddhism though modified. I know religion isny always Christianity. But the reason I ask about Christianity is Ryder can NOT talk about the Christian God without calling the only human who is religious and believes in some sort of god delusional and her agreeing. Or saying that god (the singular god, Christian Muslim or Jewish usually) is a mahine. The fact is they shifted from MassEffect 1-3 which had many allusions to the Bible time and time again where Shepard was like the second coming of Jesus a that point. Thsts why t make sense to tone it down but suddenly religious=evil Kett and a girl who calls herself delusional for having faith. Even say "I wasn't calling you delusional" and she will say "you didn't mean to but oh did and I think it's comforting" so the only religious standpoint you get is "they're delusional but they like it" if the only jrogan we met was morda wed say "they're violent but they like it that way". That's how Bioware is treating Monotheist religions that are likely Christianity or Judaism so now what youre you're saying is Eder can be Buddhist and it works mostly well. Well ryder CANT be Christian. She isn't allowed to believe in god or heaven, she says "maybe j have some kinda faith I guess" "faith is delusional kinda" "god is machine" then acts in denial. She doesn't believe in heaven she just doesn't want to believe in permanent death You misunderstood me. My Ryder cannot profess a belief in reincarnation, which is a central belief of Buddhism. All she can say is 'reincarnation is a nice idea', and that actually more against her beliefs than your Christian saying that she doesn't believe that death is the end. So, you can't outright say 'My mother is in heaven with Jesus and the angels', but you can say you believe she's not entirely gone. My Buddhist Ryder has to be dismissive about reincarnation. I mean, imagine your reaction if Ryder had to say 'heaven is a nice idea, but...' (to be clear, I'm not complaining that Ruder can't be explicitly Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. I like that Bioware keeps it vague, so no one should get offended. In theory, at least)
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 20:55:42 GMT
Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim. Mind giving me a crashcourse of similarities? It's been a while since I visited Thedas. pm me. I'm about to start work so can't go into it now. But...remind me.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 31, 2017 20:56:51 GMT
Yeah I agree as in DA thje Andratrian religion kind of feel a lot like Christianity tbh if yo take certain things into account like we have the Maker which is their God and then twe have Andraste which was effectively the Jesus of their world becau8se ultimately I think that's all Jesus was a messenger in a way just like Andraste was in DA. Obviously it is different in that DA has magic and is a mduieval fantasy based world but the underlying faith is very similar I think. But i just see the question facing Ryder when Suvi's posing the question is do they believe in God themselves or not? I've played my Ryder's both ways but my current Sara believes. Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim. Why would you say that? Don't rea;lly know the Muslim religion myself but I know a little about Christianity being a Christian myself although tbh I'm not particularly religious as beyond marking the holidays such as Christmas and Easter I kind of stay out of it.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:58:35 GMT
The entire Turian Faith is based on Buddhism though modified. I know religion isny always Christianity. But the reason I ask about Christianity is Ryder can NOT talk about the Christian God without calling the only human who is religious and believes in some sort of god delusional and her agreeing. Or saying that god (the singular god, Christian Muslim or Jewish usually) is a mahine. The fact is they shifted from MassEffect 1-3 which had many allusions to the Bible time and time again where Shepard was like the second coming of Jesus a that point. Thsts why t make sense to tone it down but suddenly religious=evil Kett and a girl who calls herself delusional for having faith. Even say "I wasn't calling you delusional" and she will say "you didn't mean to but oh did and I think it's comforting" so the only religious standpoint you get is "they're delusional but they like it" if the only jrogan we met was morda wed say "they're violent but they like it that way". That's how Bioware is treating Monotheist religions that are likely Christianity or Judaism so now what youre you're saying is Eder can be Buddhist and it works mostly well. Well ryder CANT be Christian. She isn't allowed to believe in god or heaven, she says "maybe j have some kinda faith I guess" "faith is delusional kinda" "god is machine" then acts in denial. She doesn't believe in heaven she just doesn't want to believe in permanent death You misunderstood me. My Ryder cannot profess a belief in reincarnation, which is a central belief of Buddhism. All she can say is 'reincarnation is a nice idea', and that actually more against her beliefs than your Christian saying that she doesn't believe that death is the end. So, you can't outright say 'My mother is in heaven with Jesus and the angels', but you can say you believe she's not entirely gone. My Buddhist Ryder has to be dismissive about reincarnation. I mean, imagine your reaction if Ryder had to say 'heaven is a nice idea, but...' (to be clear, I'm not complaining that Ruder can't be explicitly Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. I like that Bioware keeps it vague, so no one should get offended. In theory, at least) My Ryder can't say she believed in the afterlife she says "i refuse to believe she is gone" which isn't believe it's denial in death.
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 21:00:17 GMT
Guys I know at the beginning you can say you believe in a deity. That was a nice chicken. At the end you have to call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. This is a general thread because I thought religion was more general than spoiler but it's endgame conversations so I can't show a video. Now the afterlife thing ain't religion. It's denial. I didn't want my character to believe in heaven because she refuses to believe her friend is dead. But if you say yes I believe Ryder says that she can't accept the thought of losing her mom so she decided to believe in the afterlife. That isn't faith to me and they should have been vague. Well to me it is and it's normal human reactions as well since none of us know what form the next life will take. I believe in heaven and god but none of us knows what that will look like.
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Post by cobalt72 on May 31, 2017 21:03:40 GMT
Might not be faith to you but maybe it is someone else?
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Post by caterpillar on May 31, 2017 21:04:01 GMT
You misunderstood me. My Ryder cannot profess a belief in reincarnation, which is a central belief of Buddhism. All she can say is 'reincarnation is a nice idea', and that actually more against her beliefs than your Christian saying that she doesn't believe that death is the end. So, you can't outright say 'My mother is in heaven with Jesus and the angels', but you can say you believe she's not entirely gone. My Buddhist Ryder has to be dismissive about reincarnation. I mean, imagine your reaction if Ryder had to say 'heaven is a nice idea, but...' (to be clear, I'm not complaining that Ruder can't be explicitly Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. I like that Bioware keeps it vague, so no one should get offended. In theory, at least) My Ryder can't say she believed in the afterlife she says "i refuse to believe she is gone" which isn't believe it's denial in death. Well, a Buddhist Ryder can't say 'I believe in reincarnation' while talking about reincarnation with a priestess of a religion that believes in reincarnation.
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 21:04:23 GMT
Yeah I agree as in DA thje Andratrian religion kind of feel a lot like Christianity tbh if yo take certain things into account like we have the Maker which is their God and then twe have Andraste which was effectively the Jesus of their world becau8se ultimately I think that's all Jesus was a messenger in a way just like Andraste was in DA. Obviously it is different in that DA has magic and is a mduieval fantasy based world but the underlying faith is very similar I think. But i just see the question facing Ryder when Suvi's posing the question is do they believe in God themselves or not? I've played my Ryder's both ways but my current Sara believes. Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim. Could you walk me through this? I have trouble telling the Abrahamic religions apart.
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 21:05:54 GMT
You misunderstood me. My Ryder cannot profess a belief in reincarnation, which is a central belief of Buddhism. All she can say is 'reincarnation is a nice idea', and that actually more against her beliefs than your Christian saying that she doesn't believe that death is the end. So, you can't outright say 'My mother is in heaven with Jesus and the angels', but you can say you believe she's not entirely gone. My Buddhist Ryder has to be dismissive about reincarnation. I mean, imagine your reaction if Ryder had to say 'heaven is a nice idea, but...' (to be clear, I'm not complaining that Ruder can't be explicitly Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. I like that Bioware keeps it vague, so no one should get offended. In theory, at least) My Ryder can't say she believed in the afterlife she says "i refuse to believe she is gone" which isn't believe it's denial in death. What's the difference?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:08:29 GMT
My Ryder can't say she believed in the afterlife she says "i refuse to believe she is gone" which isn't believe it's denial in death. What's the difference? Faith is a true trust or confidence denial isn't faith
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 21:10:48 GMT
Guys I know at the beginning you can say you believe in a deity. That was a nice chicken. At the end you have to call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. This is a general thread because I thought religion was more general than spoiler but it's endgame conversations so I can't show a video. You could certainly link to one-- the spoiler rules don't apply to anything that isn't on this board.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 21:11:20 GMT
Guys I know at the beginning you can say you believe in a deity. That was a nice chicken. At the end you have to call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. This is a general thread because I thought religion was more general than spoiler but it's endgame conversations so I can't show a video. Now the afterlife thing ain't religion. It's denial. I didn't want my character to believe in heaven because she refuses to believe her friend is dead. But if you say yes I believe Ryder says that she can't accept the thought of losing her mom so she decided to believe in the afterlife. That isn't faith to me and they should have been vague. So hide it behind a spoiler tag. You don't even have to post the actual video, you can post a URL and people can go check it out for themselves. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen the conversation you're referring to in-game, but I straight-up don't believe anyone states that "god is a robot". I suspect you're exaggerating/mischaracterizing whatever was actually said. Willing to be proved wrong, though.
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Post by danaxe on May 31, 2017 21:12:20 GMT
As a christian myself I have to say this is kinda nitpicking? Andromeda might not have a clear believer-path but considering how religion-heavy Inquisition was (in fact Dragon Age might be the most fiction-religious saga ever), you have to cut them some slack on their other IPs. They already deal heavily with it in Inquisition, no reason to poke that nest in Andromeda as well. And i say poke the nest, cause unfortunately religion in games can be very controversial and both sides of the argument just break down on them. And they did it splendidly in Inquisition. You have the Chantry - Catholic Church. You have Andraste - Jesus. You have the Maker - God. You have the lesser gods elven and human - And I think of them as Angels/Fallen Angels. And despite all that, you can choose what to be with a lot of liberty. You can believe in the Chantry as the Catholics, you can believe in the Maker and Andraste but not follow the chantry as the Protestants, you can believe in nothing - as atheists do, i mean do i need to go on? Faith is splendidly portraid as well. You can learn the truth about your "ascension" to Herald of Andraste, and yet still believe you were chosen. Either way you have the options there and they are very well implemented. Cracking down on Bioware for not following that thread on more than 1 IP is just nitpicking. Just be glad for Dragon Age
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Post by traks on May 31, 2017 21:17:14 GMT
There is no indication in any Bioware game that they are against any religion - often giving the player the opportunity to play a character that believes. That you don't find your exact belief in a game - which BTW would be very misplaced IMO in a time where a lot of people on this world abuse religion to refuse their own responsibility - shouldn't surprise you. It would be very weird in a sci-fi setting to still have the same religions as we have now. So of course you can only play a character in line with what religion evolved to in the ME universe.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 21:17:24 GMT
Inquisition you can be change but that's because it's always been chantry bersus magic with chantry as these big oppressors and mages as these usually misunderstood individuals.
Me1-3 was heavily religious in all its stories and what they do and did. So when the next Mass Effect game insults religion in general it was especially noticeable
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cobalt72
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Post by cobalt72 on May 31, 2017 21:19:41 GMT
I might be mistaken but couldn't you deny in religion in ME1 when talking with Ashley?
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 21:22:47 GMT
You misunderstood me. My Ryder cannot profess a belief in reincarnation, which is a central belief of Buddhism. All she can say is 'reincarnation is a nice idea', and that actually more against her beliefs than your Christian saying that she doesn't believe that death is the end. So, you can't outright say 'My mother is in heaven with Jesus and the angels', but you can say you believe she's not entirely gone. My Buddhist Ryder has to be dismissive about reincarnation. I mean, imagine your reaction if Ryder had to say 'heaven is a nice idea, but...' (to be clear, I'm not complaining that Ruder can't be explicitly Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. I like that Bioware keeps it vague, so no one should get offended. In theory, at least) My Ryder can't say she believed in the afterlife she says "i refuse to believe she is gone" which isn't believe it's denial in death. Same thing. This is just simple English. If I believe that death is final, then I believe there is not anything after it: "final" means there is no after. If I don't believe that death is final, then I believe there is something after it: an afterlife. Disbelief in the finality of death is equivalent to belief in an afterlife, which is a religious idea. So Ryder can express belief in both a deity and an afterlife: she/he can be religious, if vaguely so.
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Post by Furisco on May 31, 2017 21:22:53 GMT
I might be mistaken but couldn't you deny in religion in ME1 when talking with Ashley? "If God exists he probably doesn't give a fuck about us Ash"
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 21:25:22 GMT
why is this here? we have mea with a christian in it and Ryder who can be some form of faith they choose. This should not be ask because the answer is clearly no.
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 21:25:44 GMT
Inquisition you can be change but that's because it's always been chantry bersus magic with chantry as these big oppressors and mages as these usually misunderstood individuals. Me1-3 was heavily religious in all its stories and what they do and did. So when the next Mass Effect game insults religion in general it was especially noticeable Heavily religious? You're not making too much sense here. They used religious themes, but that's hardly the same thing as endorsing religion per se. If anything, the trilogy replaced religion with tech.
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Post by Furisco on May 31, 2017 21:27:40 GMT
Inquisition you can be change but that's because it's always been chantry bersus magic with chantry as these big oppressors and mages as these usually misunderstood individuals. Me1-3 was heavily religious in all its stories and what they do and did. So when the next Mass Effect game insults religion in general it was especially noticeable Heavily religious? You're not making too much sense here. They used religious themes, but that's hardly the same thing as endorsing religion per se. If anything, the trilogy replaced religion with tech. Wrong.
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Post by cobalt72 on May 31, 2017 21:29:28 GMT
Meh, might be right though. Starbrat could be Satan
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Post by Dark King on May 31, 2017 21:31:38 GMT
Heavily religious? You're not making too much sense here. They used religious themes, but that's hardly the same thing as endorsing religion per se. If anything, the trilogy replaced religion with tech. Wrong.
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