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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 20:27:38 GMT
That says more about your opinion on religion since Inquisiioj lets you choose how to react. You are missing the fact Bioware is making no definitive claim and lettimg the player decide. Not this time they didn't. They don't let you believe in heaven no matter what dialogue you pick. Or let you even say "the afterlife" or let you believe in god at the end again my Ryder said they specifically believed in God to suvi.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:27:55 GMT
Isn't Shepard possibly being religious solely an artifact of Ashley being religious? Is there any dialogue about that which isn't with her? No there isn't. But Andromeda puts religious questions up and makes you answer negatively. Why not just not ask like most of ME? Why not avoid having the ONLY religious character think she's delusional and be fine with it?
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 20:28:28 GMT
it really didn't. Dragon Age and Bioware has one of the most balanced representations of religion in modern media. Just compare the chantry to the faith militant from game of thrones. And for every Meredith or chancellor roderick there is a Cullen, Evangeline, Grand mother Elithina or Madame Giselle. All portrayed as good people doing bad things. Cullen is getting off drugs and learning to hate the circle How do you get from Cullen to "all" there? It's starting to look like you're trolling, but I'm going to be charitable and assume that you just haven't thought any of this through very well.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on May 31, 2017 20:29:26 GMT
Let's hope so, and that it is not just Christianity; all religion is bollocks frankly. What do you base your analysis on ? I'm not trying to engage into a long metaphysical debate, but I'm genuinely curious to know why people think the way they think... I won't answer for vonuber, as he is quite capable and I thought his post was outstanding! My analysis is based on, wait for it.... Analysis. Academic analysis, on my own as a young child through my BA in Phil and minor in World Religion. Infinite regress is a big problem for me, but the Jolly Jesus in the Clouds is a bigger one. As an agnostic always teetering on hard atheism, I will say that I base my lack of faith in man-made religion on sound analysis of all data available to me. The logical inconsistencies of Abrahamic religions and their texts, practices and voodoo, as well as their earthly corruption, make a bad joke out of organized religion, and New Age Mysticism is hokey as fuck. So, that leaves a very small path to being a rational "believer". That path for me, is this: If God exists, it is nothing like us, doesn't care for us individually, and is truly beyond knowing in this life. Therefore, live right because it feels good, or dick off because it feels good, and never fear eternal damnation or feel secure in hallowed gates. The punishment of this life, is this life.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:29:48 GMT
Not this time they didn't. They don't let you believe in heaven no matter what dialogue you pick. Or let you even say "the afterlife" or let you believe in god at the end again my Ryder said they specifically believed in God to suvi. I'm talking about after the big revelations at the end. Ryder can no longer believe in god and says god is a machine or that Suvi is delusional
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 20:32:04 GMT
again my Ryder said they specifically believed in God to suvi. I'm talking about after the big revelations at the end. Ryder can no longer believe in god and says god is a machine or that Suvi is delusional No he/she doesn't. That is not what the scene says or implied.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:32:30 GMT
This isngeneral thread for Andromeda. Wasn't made for y'all to come in and insult religion as a whole. And honestly it isn't inconsistent if you actually try to look in and study it for a few minutes. Now I know many of you are around my age and grew up with the internet. The internet also takes weird translations or even NKJ and highlights things out of context but everything they put up is very easily answered. It's ridiculous and the same things people bring up, always the same few because those are the ones that blew up out of context online
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 20:33:30 GMT
Um.. wat? You have the option of agreeing with Suvi, that a god exists. So, you can be religious. Just not explicitly Christian (as opposed to some other form of theism). But obviously, as Kaisershep points out, not including explicitly Christian dialogue options or choices=/= being anti-Christian, not even a little bit (that's sort of a doozy of a non-sequitur). Itsblike y'all read the title and alwnated to make fun of the Christian girl I didn't say my problem is ignoring Christianity I said in the first post my problem was with how they treated god after the first conversation. Ya gotta call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. One or the other. Then for heaven you either say "death is death" or "I refuse to believe she is dead" that ain't believeing in heaven that's just denial. I'm not making fun of you, I'm disagreeing with what you wrote (and I wouldn't make fun of someone for being Christian; not only is my entire family Christian, my mother was a Lutheran minister). You're given a dialogue option where you can affirm that you believe in a god. And obviously, denying that death is the end is equivalent to saying you believe in an afterlife. So, in both cases, you've expressed a religious belief (so you can be religious, contrary to your mistaken claim in your OP), you've just failed to positively characterize it as explicitly Christian, as opposed to some other version of theism. So not only is it obviously not anti-Christian in any way (since, again, not explicitly Christian =/= anti-Christian), it leaves open the possibility that you (as Ryder) do believe in the Christian version of god/the afterlife, even if you cannot positively confirm that: it leaves the question open.
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Post by Kabraxal on May 31, 2017 20:33:38 GMT
That says more about your opinion on religion since Inquisiioj lets you choose how to react. You are missing the fact Bioware is making no definitive claim and lettimg the player decide. Not this time they didn't. They don't let you believe in heaven no matter what dialogue you pick. Or let you even say "the afterlife" or let you believe in god at the end And yet you can agree with Suvi, which implies belief, let alone the dualogue options do make it clear if you choose spiritual or not. You are reading your bias into it, not actually paying attention to the dialogue.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:33:57 GMT
I'm talking about after the big revelations at the end. Ryder can no longer believe in god and says god is a machine or that Suvi is delusional No he/ doesn't. That is not what the scene says or implied. Certainly is. Suvi said that it may not be why you meant but it's what you said and it's true
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 20:35:05 GMT
This isngeneral thread for Andromeda. Wasn't made for y'all to come in and insult religion as a whole. And honestly it isn't inconsistent if you actually try to look in and study it for a few minutes. Now I know many of you are around my age and grew up with the internet. The internet also takes weird translations or even NKJ and highlights things out of context but everything they put up is very easily answered. It's ridiculous and the same things people bring up, always the same few because those are the ones that blew up out of context online I'm not making fun of you, i just disagree with your take on this. I am Christian just like you but I don't see it the way you do.
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 20:35:24 GMT
Isn't Shepard possibly being religious solely an artifact of Ashley being religious? Is there any dialogue about that which isn't with her? No there isn't. But Andromeda puts religious questions up and makes you answer negatively. Why not just not ask like most of ME? Why not avoid having the ONLY religious character think she's delusional and be fine with it? My point was that the ME writing staff as a whole hasn't shown any interest in the PC's religion per se. Romance and friendship tracks are the province of the particular writer of that NPC. So you've got one writer (maybe more if they switched between games) doing something because it's an interesting way to interact with Ashley. The other writers don't show any evidence of having any interest in the PC's religion. DA's a bit different because issues of religion actually come up during the plots.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:37:08 GMT
Itsblike y'all read the title and alwnated to make fun of the Christian girl I didn't say my problem is ignoring Christianity I said in the first post my problem was with how they treated god after the first conversation. Ya gotta call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. One or the other. Then for heaven you either say "death is death" or "I refuse to believe she is dead" that ain't believeing in heaven that's just denial. I'm not making fun of you, I'm disagreeing with what you wrote (and I wouldn't make fun of someone for being Christian; not only is my entire family Christian, my mother was a Lutheran minister). You're given a dialogue option where you can affirm that you believe in a god. And obviously, denying that death is the end is equivalent to saying you believe in an afterlife. So, in both cases, you've expressed a religious belief (so you can be religious, contrary to your mistaken claim in your OP), you've just failed to positively characterize it as explicitly Christian, as opposed to some other version of theism. So not only is it obviously not anti-Christian in any way (since, again, not explicitly Christian =/= anti-Christian), it leaves open the possibility that you (as Ryder) do believe in the Christian version of god/the afterlife, even if you cannot positively confirm that: it leaves the question open. At the beginning yes you can say you believe in some sort of higher power. The afterlife comment is like I don't think she is just gone. I can't." Which isn't thinking of heaven or afterlife its refusal to accept the loss of someone dead to you and that's not the same thing. And at the end you have to disregard her faith or just never have that last omconversation wth her
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:37:39 GMT
This isngeneral thread for Andromeda. Wasn't made for y'all to come in and insult religion as a whole. And honestly it isn't inconsistent if you actually try to look in and study it for a few minutes. Now I know many of you are around my age and grew up with the internet. The internet also takes weird translations or even NKJ and highlights things out of context but everything they put up is very easily answered. It's ridiculous and the same things people bring up, always the same few because those are the ones that blew up out of context online I'm not making fun of you, i just disagree with your take on this. I am Christian just like you but I don't see it the way you do. Sorry sweetie that wasn't to you you jus reposted before indidnand it showed up right below you.
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 20:38:00 GMT
I'm talking about after the big revelations at the end. Ryder can no longer believe in god and says god is a machine or that Suvi is delusional No he/she doesn't. That is not what the scene says or implied. We should get the exact text for this. Anyone got a link to a video of the scene? Should we look for it in a romance track video?
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 20:39:44 GMT
This isngeneral thread for Andromeda. Wasn't made for y'all to come in and insult religion as a whole. And honestly it isn't inconsistent if you actually try to look in and study it for a few minutes. Now I know many of you are around my age and grew up with the internet. The internet also takes weird translations or even NKJ and highlights things out of context but everything they put up is very easily answered. It's ridiculous and the same things people bring up, always the same few because those are the ones that blew up out of context online as someone who is religious myself I'm certainly not making fun of religion. The point is that there is usually a wide variety of opinions and perspectives on this topic and Bioware usually does a good job of representing them fairly. Even the circle has good people making solid arguments in its favor for da2 and inquisition.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 20:41:00 GMT
I agree Passion, I wasn't at all happy with the way BW intentionally framed a lot of the conversations with Suvi about her beliefs. In the end you can only say you don't believe or tell Suvi she will fool herself into believing whatever she wants anyway. You never really have the option to just wholeheartedly agree with her. Just another notch in BW's "tolerance" belt I guess. /shrug
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 20:43:56 GMT
I'm not making fun of you, I'm disagreeing with what you wrote (and I wouldn't make fun of someone for being Christian; not only is my entire family Christian, my mother was a Lutheran minister). You're given a dialogue option where you can affirm that you believe in a god. And obviously, denying that death is the end is equivalent to saying you believe in an afterlife. So, in both cases, you've expressed a religious belief (so you can be religious, contrary to your mistaken claim in your OP), you've just failed to positively characterize it as explicitly Christian, as opposed to some other version of theism. So not only is it obviously not anti-Christian in any way (since, again, not explicitly Christian =/= anti-Christian), it leaves open the possibility that you (as Ryder) do believe in the Christian version of god/the afterlife, even if you cannot positively confirm that: it leaves the question open. At the beginning yes you can say you believe in some sort of higher power. The afterlife comment is like I don't think she is just gone. I can't." Which isn't thinking of heaven or afterlife its refusal to accept the loss of someone dead to you and that's not the same thing. And at the end you have to disregard her faith or just never have that last omconversation wth her You can say you believe in a deity, and you can deny that someone who is dead is just gone (which is equivalent to saying you believe in some sort of afterlife). So you can play a religious Ryder, just not an explicitly Christian one.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:44:41 GMT
OP, just find a youtube video of the conversation you're talking about. It'd clear everything up.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 31, 2017 20:46:22 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Yeah I agree as in DA thje Andratrian religion kind of feel a lot like Christianity tbh if yo take certain things into account like we have the Maker which is their God and then twe have Andraste which was effectively the Jesus of their world becau8se ultimately I think that's all Jesus was a messenger in a way just like Andraste was in DA. Obviously it is different in that DA has magic and is a mduieval fantasy based world but the underlying faith is very similar I think. But i just see the question facing Ryder when Suvi's posing the question is do they believe in God themselves or not? I've played my Ryder's both ways but my current Sara believes.
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 20:46:24 GMT
At the beginning yes you can say you believe in some sort of higher power. The afterlife comment is like I don't think she is just gone. I can't." Which isn't thinking of heaven or afterlife its refusal to accept the loss of someone dead to you and that's not the same thing. And at the end you have to disregard her faith or just never have that last omconversation wth her You can say you believe in a deity, and you can deny that someone who is dead is just gone (which is equivalent to saying you believe in some sort of afterlife). So you can play a religious Ryder, just not an explicitly Christian one. Exactly.
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Post by What Else You Need To Know? on May 31, 2017 20:47:23 GMT
Oh this will be good. We are touching on my of my favorite internet things here. People who don't believe in God or religion in any way shape or form, but trip over each other to bash and swoon over it every time it's mentioned. Good thread OP...I'm sure there will be fun reading.
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Post by Serza on May 31, 2017 20:48:49 GMT
I asked this because in Mass Effect Shepard could be religious. In Andromeda Ryder can't be. You have to tell Suvi either she is delusional for having faith (which she gleeful agrees to) or say that god is a robot which she is happy with. You can't believe in heaven you can only refuse to believe your mom's soul is lost. Shepard is also analogous for Jesus while Andromeda's main bad guys are the religious aliens, and no humans have faith except Suvi who isn't like any religion in earth. Why does the new team just not want us to be able to choose? I don't expect them to be as straightforward as mass effect but I hate that we just don't get the choice and they don't allow us to be religious, and at the same time make the game itself talk down religion. I have seen lots of discussion about this and other parts of the Bioware agenda (some say Hudson wanted a religious story and now Bioware is over compensation) as part of the bigger discussion on Bioware political agenda (there are links to devs making supposedly hateful comments to men but they are men, so idk.) some people go as far as to say the women in the game don't look like waifus means that Bioware wants to support she's because she's don't like traditional women (which is offensive on SJW part too when they are the ones who don't want to be offensive) so all of that is a mess on both sides and we should keep it out of this topic please! I just wanted to discuss one particular issue. Have you become a troll now? I know for a fact that you can tell Suvi you have a similar opinion on the matter. The Codex in the "Crew Like No Other" section then goes on to explicitly state opinion given to Suvi. You can also tell SAM that you (Ryder) believe in an afterlife, however further clarifying the circumstances of the conversation with SAM would be a spoiler for Ryder Family Secrets. Afterlife is a common religious concept, the Christian variation of it seeing the concept of Hell and Heaven, to simplify matters (as I am no expert on this). I would hardly say you can not. P.S.: SUVI MENTIONED TIME TO SHAMELESSLY PROMOTE HER
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 20:51:02 GMT
Huh? God is a robot? How did you get that? And given that Inquisition has the best and most mature handling of faith and religion, it seems Bioware isn't hating anything. Yeah I agree as in DA thje Andratrian religion kind of feel a lot like Christianity tbh if yo take certain things into account like we have the Maker which is their God and then twe have Andraste which was effectively the Jesus of their world becau8se ultimately I think that's all Jesus was a messenger in a way just like Andraste was in DA. Obviously it is different in that DA has magic and is a mduieval fantasy based world but the underlying faith is very similar I think. But i just see the question facing Ryder when Suvi's posing the question is do they believe in God themselves or not? I've played my Ryder's both ways but my current Sara believes. Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 20:52:54 GMT
Guys I know at the beginning you can say you believe in a deity. That was a nice chicken. At the end you have to call Suvi delusional or say god is a robot. This is a general thread because I thought religion was more general than spoiler but it's endgame conversations so I can't show a video.
Now the afterlife thing ain't religion. It's denial. I didn't want my character to believe in heaven because she refuses to believe her friend is dead. But if you say yes I believe Ryder says that she can't accept the thought of losing her mom so she decided to believe in the afterlife. That isn't faith to me and they should have been vague.
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