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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:21:50 GMT
They would really be better off to just leave the whole topic alone if this is the best writing they can do. "Yeah that's what faith is". Whoever the writer was for these conversations clearly doesn't have any understanding of what "faith" actually means and the whole message comes off as "if you do have faith you are just fooling yourself". Don't want to get into a big theological debate here, if you really want to know what it means to "have faith" look it up yourself. The point is, like with the trans-lady they had to redact, if they don't know anything about the topic they would be better off not trying to shoehorn it into their game. That's exactly what I'm gettin at. The writers for Andromeda weren't very good hence why less than half their contracts got renewed according to the rumors. But thu are fixin the issue with gay male aliens. Fixin the trans lady. Fixin bad animation. They didn't care enough about Christians or Jewish people or anyone who could be offended by this to add in a more traditional religious character, or patch this dialogue. No need to change Suvi. Definitely a need to make Ryder allowing to say "yes I believe in the afterlife. No faith isn't delusional. No God wasn't Mortal" instead f playing agnostic and not taking solid stance.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 31, 2017 22:21:55 GMT
No, the new Bioware is not against Christianity. Or any religion.
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 22:22:34 GMT
Suvi said religious people including herself delude themselves into believeing. Alternatively you call God a robot. There are no other religious humans and no Christian like perspective. The prisnry religion we see is the Kett which is evil and murderous tendencies and we kill them for their religion There shouldn't be a christian perspective as there shouldn't be an islamic, jewish or Buddhist perspective. Well, here's another surprise. Most people don't go around rubbing their personal believes into everyone's faces. They just go about their lives and are content in what they believe or what they don't believe in. What did you expect? That you meet some random dude, handing you one of their generic quests on the Nexus and before you leave to do what they asked, he's holding you back with the words, got a minute to talk about Jesus? Is that really how you expect an AAA game, geared to sell globally, is supposed to operate? And we don't kill the Kett because of their religion. We kill them because they attack us, because they don't pause to negotiate and because they enslave people by their technology and by turning them into their own. Using some ritualistic window dressing, which isn't any more religious than what any given dictatorship or regime uses to incite the masses.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:23:24 GMT
So all she says is that learning the Angarans origin makes her question IF god could be mortal... and that she ultimately doesn't believe that because she has faith. Nothing about god being a robot, and not really anything insulting to theism or Christianity (much less religion in general); what Suvi and Ryder say about faith here isn't anything worse/different than what countless (Christian) theologians have said about faith themselves: faith is frequently defined as a leap above and beyond what the evidence or logic alone can establish. And again, since not all religion involves a singular god (or any gods for that matter) or the Christian notion of faith being insulting to all religion isn't even a possibility here. You truly are half reading me. In that very post I admitted I was wrong to say robot. She is callin Him Mortal (which is just as bad but still I was wrong). Faith is absolute trust those who call it without logic generally either embrace that they don't need to know or want to insult it but it doesn't have to be and the Bible actually makes sense if you don't just read the parts taken out of context online. And j didn't say this scene insults all religion I've been talkin about the Kett too. Why only read half of what I say if you want to argue about it with me? let's not talk about the bible here. it will end badly for you. Added, this scene is about her learning new was of gaining faith. Not her losing it. And asking if god is finite is not a bad thing.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:24:55 GMT
No, the new Bioware is not against Christianity. Or any religion. Truthfully not what it seems like. I believe Casey Hudson himself was religious hence why Mass Effect both cared about religion and science. New writers always tweet about things like mansplaining and other words that are often associated with tumblr. Replacing religion with SJW (and if that's the truth the. go ask a SJW about charity and and they will be very mad. SJW hat people like Christians and if these new devs believe the SJW crowd like David Gaider who said he himself is one, then they'd love to paint chrsitinait in a bad light)
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:25:19 GMT
They would really be better off to just leave the whole topic alone if this is the best writing they can do. "Yeah that's what faith is". Whoever the writer was for these conversations clearly doesn't have any understanding of what "faith" actually means and the whole message comes off as "if you do have faith you are just fooling yourself". Don't want to get into a big theological debate here, if you really want to know what it means to "have faith" look it up yourself. The point is, like with the trans-lady they had to redact, if they don't know anything about the topic they would be better off not trying to shoehorn it into their game. That's exactly what I'm gettin at. The writers for Andromeda weren't very good hence why less than half their contracts got renewed according to the rumors. But thu are fixin the issue with gay male aliens. Fixin the trans lady. Fixin bad animation. They didn't care enough about Christians or Jewish people or anyone who could be offended by this to add in a more traditional religious character, or patch this dialogue. No need to change Suvi. Definitely a need to make Ryder allowing to say "yes I believe in the afterlife. No faith isn't delusional. No God wasn't Mortal" instead f playing agnostic and not taking solid stance. your complaint is that bioware made a character that ask if god is finite.....that really noting to take issue in..
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:27:18 GMT
Suvi said religious people including herself delude themselves into believeing. Alternatively you call God a robot. There are no other religious humans and no Christian like perspective. The prisnry religion we see is the Kett which is evil and murderous tendencies and we kill them for their religion There shouldn't be a christian perspective as there shouldn't be an islamic, jewish or Buddhist perspective. Well, here's another surprise. Most people don't go around rubbing their personal believes into everyone's faces. They just go about their lives and are content in what they believe or what they don't believe in. What did you expect? That you meet some random dude, handing you one of their generic quests on the Nexus and before you leave to do what they asked, he's holding you back with the words, got a minute to talk about Jesus? Is that really how you expect an AAA game, geared to sell globally, is supposed to operate? And we don't kill the Kett because of their religion. We kill them because they attack us, because they don't pause to negotiate and because they enslave people by their technology and by turning them into their own. Using some ritualistic window dressing, which isn't any more religious than what any given dictatorship or regime uses to incite the masses. They attack us because of their religion. The most religious species is the bad guys. We meet people for a long time. We have many conversations with many characters. You see how much Ryder talks to Cora Liam PeeBee Jaal and so on so no it wouldn't be out of lace to talk about religion and to have someone who is religious.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:27:42 GMT
*Suvi has crisis of faith* *Ryder awkwardly assists* *Suvi decides to keep her faith*
ANTI CHRISTIANITY!
Sorry, I am having a lot of trouble taking this thread seriously.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:27:58 GMT
That's exactly what I'm gettin at. The writers for Andromeda weren't very good hence why less than half their contracts got renewed according to the rumors. But thu are fixin the issue with gay male aliens. Fixin the trans lady. Fixin bad animation. They didn't care enough about Christians or Jewish people or anyone who could be offended by this to add in a more traditional religious character, or patch this dialogue. No need to change Suvi. Definitely a need to make Ryder allowing to say "yes I believe in the afterlife. No faith isn't delusional. No God wasn't Mortal" instead f playing agnostic and not taking solid stance. your complaint is that bioware made a character that ask if god is finite.....that really noting to take issue in.. No my complaint is that my character can't disagree and there is no other character who I am agree with.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:28:54 GMT
No, the kett attack everyone because they want to conquer the galaxy. We don't know much about their motives other than that. You see exaltation as a religious concept. I see it as an imperialistic concept. Perspective.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:29:46 GMT
*Suvi has crisis of faith* *Ryder awkwardly assists* *Suvi decides to keep her faith* ANTI CHRISTIANITY! Sorry, I am having a lot of trouble taking this thread seriously. You're picking and choosing what to discuss his isn't the only thing I talked about it's just what a few of you got stuck on the player character must agree that either there is no God or that God is a mortal or that faith is delusional. You can't disagree with that. The player character must must reject the afterlife or say they refuse to accept family is dead. As if Christians are only religious because they don't want to accept death? That ain't the case either but at how bioware portrays religion.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:29:59 GMT
I mean, the kett are about as religious as the Conquistadors (Gold, God, and Glory!).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 31, 2017 22:31:16 GMT
No, the new Bioware is not against Christianity. Or any religion. Truthfully not what it seems like. I believe Casey Hudson himself was religious hence why Mass Effect both cared about religion and science. New writers always tweet about things like mansplaining and other words that are often associated with tumblr. Replacing religion with SJW (and if that's the truth the. go ask a SJW about charity and and they will be very mad. SJW hat people like Christians and if these new devs believe the SJW crowd like David Gaider who said he himself is one, then they'd love to paint chrsitinait in a bad light) Utter nonsense. Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 22:31:34 GMT
And how does that go against Christianity? All it;s say is that god could be finite. How does it not? It's saying all of Christianity is wrong and whoever you worship is dead not some creator who loves and cares for you. He didn't made the universe he just made you. It completely goes agaisnt Christianity This game, nor any of the others, exist to cater to any particular religion. That's true for virtually every other game, even if intentional parallels are created. They are under no obligation to cater to a specific religion, and there's no indication as to what Earth religions still exist in this time period. Also, if you want to get really nitpicky, technically all other characters, alien or otherwise, are atheists towards Christianity. All Asari, Turians, Quarians, other humans, yada yada, aren't saved and are therefore going to spend eternity in Hell. Do you really expect Bioware to weave that into the game? Once again, these characters have defined traits and beliefs. They are not going to align with yours just because you want them to. Also, I take umbrage that you put emphasis and implication on gay and trans rights as being in opposition with Christianity. Your statement appears to make your position on that clear.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 22:32:22 GMT
I think you bolded the wrong things. So first Ryder calls her delusional for having faith and Suvi immediately agrees. To me that seemed to be the intent of the writer. Again, clearly this was written by someone with little understanding of what faith is and why people have it. If the writer can't be arsed to look beyond their own view enough to spend 5 minutes on google doing some research first they would have been better off leaving it out.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 22:32:47 GMT
*Suvi has crisis of faith* *Ryder awkwardly assists* *Suvi decides to keep her faith* ANTI CHRISTIANITY! Sorry, I am having a lot of trouble taking this thread seriously. You're picking and choosing what to discuss his isn't the only thing I talked about it's just what a few of you got stuck on the player character must agree that either there is no God or that God is a mortal or that faith is delusional. You can't disagree with that. The player character must must reject the afterlife or say they refuse to accept family is dead. As if Christians are only religious because they don't want to accept death? That ain't the case either but at how bioware portrays religion. Because the character you're playing is Ryder, not you. You can influence that character, but that character is not you and therefore will not align with you entirely, or at all.
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 22:32:55 GMT
They attack us because of their religion. The most religious species is the bad guys. We meet people for a long time. We have many conversations with many characters. You see how much Ryder talks to Cora Liam PeeBee Jaal and so on so no it wouldn't be out of lace to talk about religion and to have someone who is religious. So let me rephrase. Say Cora was jewish and Liam a muslim. They're both talking your ears off about their faiths being the one and only real ones. Would that saitisfy your need for religion in this game? What about the Angarans, the Krogans, the Asari, the Salarians even? Should they try to proslytize you in this game? Could it be that you have a kind of selective awareness? All that over one conversation with a character, who doesn't even say she's christian. Only religious. Which brings me back to the non existent pizza.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:33:49 GMT
Oh jeezus not the stupid SJW thing again. Seriously, that is one of the stupidest accusations in the history of stupid accusations. And I've seen someone accuse a Jewish person of being a Nazi.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:34:07 GMT
your complaint is that bioware made a character that ask if god is finite.....that really noting to take issue in.. No my complaint is that my character can't disagree and there is no other character who I am agree with. Dude, the thing is that you can't make ryder say god is infinate and eternal. which would mean the issue is that they have a conversion debating if god if finite....which means the issue is the question if god is finite. Sorry, but with a game that's going to have many people with many different religious perspectives playing it you're not going to get an exclusive one. Where's my "this is all just a dream, none of this will be relevant once Azathoth wakes up." choice?
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:34:46 GMT
*Suvi has crisis of faith* *Ryder awkwardly assists* *Suvi decides to keep her faith* ANTI CHRISTIANITY! Sorry, I am having a lot of trouble taking this thread seriously. You're picking and choosing what to discuss his isn't the only thing I talked about it's just what a few of you got stuck on the player character must agree that either there is no God or that God is a mortal or that faith is delusional. You can't disagree with that. The player character must must reject the afterlife or say they refuse to accept family is dead. As if Christians are only religious because they don't want to accept death? That ain't the case either but at how bioware portrays religion. no it's does not.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:35:08 GMT
I think you bolded the wrong things. So first Ryder calls her delusional for having faith and Suvi immediately agrees. To me that seemed to be the intent of the writer. Again, clearly this was written by someone with little understanding of what faith is and why people have it. If the writer can't be arsed to look beyond their own view enough to spend 5 minutes on google doing some research first they would have been better off leaving it out. You left out the part about the cringe-worthy dialogue. It's pretty much like this all game. Religion isn't being singled out.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:36:37 GMT
No my complaint is that my character can't disagree and there is no other character who I am agree with. Dude, the thing is that you can't make ryder say god is infinate and eternal. which would mean the issue is that they have a conversion debating if god if finite....which means the issue is the question if god is finite. Sorry, but with a game that's going to have many people with many different religious perspectives playing in your not going to get an exclusive one. Where's my "this is all just a dream, none of this will be relevant once Azathoth wakes up." choice? Yeah. Where is my "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"?????
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:36:51 GMT
I think you bolded the wrong things. So first Ryder calls her delusional for having faith and Suvi immediately agrees. To me that seemed to be the intent of the writer. Again, clearly this was written by someone with little understanding of what faith is and why people have it. If the writer can't be arsed to look beyond their own view enough to spend 5 minutes on google doing some research first they would have been better off leaving it out. no. This was the person who wrote Lilliana from dragon age. one of the most religious charaters bw has ever made.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:38:14 GMT
How does it not? It's saying all of Christianity is wrong and whoever you worship is dead not some creator who loves and cares for you. He didn't made the universe he just made you. It completely goes agaisnt Christianity This game, nor any of the others, exist to cater to any particular religion. That's true for virtually every other game, even if intentional parallels are created. They are under no obligation to cater to a specific religion, and there's no indication as to what Earth religions still exist in this time period. Also, if you want to get really nitpicky, technically all other characters, alien or otherwise, are atheists towards Christianity. All Asari, Turians, Quarians, other humans, yada yada, aren't saved and are therefore going to spend eternity in Hell. Do you really expect Bioware to weave that into the game? Once again, these characters have defined traits and beliefs. They are not going to align with yours just because you want them to. Also, I take umbrage that you put emphasis and implication on gay and trans rights as being in opposition with Christianity. Your statement appears to make your position on that clear. I didn't syay others should though Garrus called himself Archangel and hoped to meet Shepard in heaven despite most turians not believing in it. Spending time with Shepard made all his followers morenreligous. Geth are all followers of Shepard really. Mordin had angel wings during his loyalty mission. When did i say gay and trnas are agsisnt chrsitians? That's offensive to lots of people to say.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:38:17 GMT
Dude, the thing is that you can't make ryder say god is infinate and eternal. which would mean the issue is that they have a conversion debating if god if finite....which means the issue is the question if god is finite. Sorry, but with a game that's going to have many people with many different religious perspectives playing in your not going to get an exclusive one. Where's my "this is all just a dream, none of this will be relevant once Azathoth wakes up." choice? Yeah. Where is my "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"?????
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