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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:39:27 GMT
This game, nor any of the others, exist to cater to any particular religion. That's true for virtually every other game, even if intentional parallels are created. They are under no obligation to cater to a specific religion, and there's no indication as to what Earth religions still exist in this time period. Also, if you want to get really nitpicky, technically all other characters, alien or otherwise, are atheists towards Christianity. All Asari, Turians, Quarians, other humans, yada yada, aren't saved and are therefore going to spend eternity in Hell. Do you really expect Bioware to weave that into the game? Once again, these characters have defined traits and beliefs. They are not going to align with yours just because you want them to. Also, I take umbrage that you put emphasis and implication on gay and trans rights as being in opposition with Christianity. Your statement appears to make your position on that clear. I didn't syay others should though Garrus called himself Archangel and hoped to meet Shepard in heaven despite most turians not believing in it. Spending time with Shepard made all his followers morenreligous. Geth are all followers of Shepard really. Mordin had angel wings during his loyalty mission. When did i say gay and trnas are agsisnt chrsitians? That's offensive to lots of people to say. that is a massive leap in logic.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 22:40:45 GMT
I think you bolded the wrong things. So first Ryder calls her delusional for having faith and Suvi immediately agrees. To me that seemed to be the intent of the writer. Again, clearly this was written by someone with little understanding of what faith is and why people have it. If the writer can't be arsed to look beyond their own view enough to spend 5 minutes on google doing some research first they would have been better off leaving it out. You left out the part about the cringe-worthy dialogue. It's pretty much like this all game. Religion isn't being singled out. I'm not saying it was singled out. Just that, like with the trans character, if the writer isn't going to take time to research to find out how to properly present the characters and ideas they probably shouldn't write about it at all. I consider myself a person of faith, even if I'm not fervently religious, and I was put off by the way the whole conversation unfolded. If that is the best representation they can do of a religious person they would be better off not injecting the topic into the game.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 22:40:54 GMT
Truthfully not what it seems like. I believe Casey Hudson himself was religious hence why Mass Effect both cared about religion and science. New writers always tweet about things like mansplaining and other words that are often associated with tumblr. Replacing religion with SJW (and if that's the truth the. go ask a SJW about charity and and they will be very mad. SJW hat people like Christians and if these new devs believe the SJW crowd like David Gaider who said he himself is one, then they'd love to paint chrsitinait in a bad light) Utter nonsense. Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history. Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B ive been on tumblr and seen modern SJW myself and bioware writers often have the same stances on their Twitter like Weekes does and some non writers like Heir does. Now I don't fully believe they hate Christians or anything but their agenda is clear now.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 31, 2017 22:41:42 GMT
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Post by cobalt72 on May 31, 2017 22:43:05 GMT
Meh
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:45:29 GMT
You left out the part about the cringe-worthy dialogue. It's pretty much like this all game. Religion isn't being singled out. I'm not saying it was singled out. Just that, like with the trans character, if the writer isn't going to take time to research to find out how to properly present the characters and ideas they probably shouldn't write about it at all. I consider myself a person of faith, even if I'm not fervently religious, and I was put off by the way the whole conversation unfolded. If that is the best representation they can do of a religious person they would be better off not injecting the topic into the game. They pretty much didn't research ANYTHING for this game. Like, not even what 50 degrees celcius was, and whether that actually counted as an environmental hazard. So it really doesn't change my argument. I didn't know the person who wrote Leilana wrote the Suvi conversation. Man, have they settled.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 22:46:38 GMT
Utter nonsense. Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history. Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B ive been on tumblr and seen modern SJW myself and bioware writers often have the same stances on their Twitter like Weekes does and some non writers like Heir does. Now I don't fully believe they hate Christians or anything but their agenda is clear now. Damn girlfriend, I know exactly where you are coming from. It is always funny seeing friends faces when topics like this come up. Standing there with their mouths hanging open like "you believe what!!" staring at me like I'm some sort of monstrous undiscovered creature. Like just because I might fit into whatever group they think I should belong to that I can't have opinions of my own.
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 22:46:54 GMT
Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B You know what would be great? Judging people on individual merit and not based on their skin color, religion, or lack thereoff, sexual orientation and other superficial issues. As long as someone judges, be prepared to be judged. Bioware tries to present an ideal where all these things are left in the past and where everyone has moved on to not rely on petty exclusivness.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:46:58 GMT
If you're taking tumblr and twitter as representative of actual people and their opinions, well............
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 22:49:13 GMT
Yeah. Where is my "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"????? Y'know both this and the cringe-worthy dialogue post are both me, right Also, now I want to make a thread asking if Bioware is against Cthulu.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 22:49:22 GMT
If you're taking tumblr and twitter as representative of actual people and their opinions, well............Ti This. Welcome to the internet, home of tons of unfiltered and often shitty opinions. Enjoy your stay. It's been that way for decades, though its significantly worse since the internet went mainstream with broadband, smartphones, and unified social media platforms.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 22:52:11 GMT
Utter nonsense. Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history. Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B ive been on tumblr and seen modern SJW myself and bioware writers often have the same stances on their Twitter like Weekes does and some non writers like Heir does. Now I don't fully believe they hate Christians or anything but their agenda is clear now. tumblr is not real life. it's not here or anywhere else. tumblr problems are tumblr problems and is not effecting this game in anyway.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 22:52:24 GMT
This game, nor any of the others, exist to cater to any particular religion. That's true for virtually every other game, even if intentional parallels are created. They are under no obligation to cater to a specific religion, and there's no indication as to what Earth religions still exist in this time period. Also, if you want to get really nitpicky, technically all other characters, alien or otherwise, are atheists towards Christianity. All Asari, Turians, Quarians, other humans, yada yada, aren't saved and are therefore going to spend eternity in Hell. Do you really expect Bioware to weave that into the game? Once again, these characters have defined traits and beliefs. They are not going to align with yours just because you want them to. Also, I take umbrage that you put emphasis and implication on gay and trans rights as being in opposition with Christianity. Your statement appears to make your position on that clear. I didn't syay others should though Garrus called himself Archangel and hoped to meet Shepard in heaven despite most turians not believing in it. Spending time with Shepard made all his followers morenreligous. Geth are all followers of Shepard really. Mordin had angel wings during his loyalty mission. When did i say gay and trnas are agsisnt chrsitians? That's offensive to lots of people to say. Your posts imply and implicate "me vs them" when you say that Bioware catered to them and not to you. Big difference between sexuality and gender; and religions. Let's also not pretend that there aren't a good number of Christians that use the Bible as an excuse to discriminate LBGTs. Anyways, I don't want to go down that road, but consider what you're saying when you say it and how it could be interpreted if that's not what you mean.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 22:54:56 GMT
Your posts imply and implicate "me vs them" when you say that Bioware catered to them and not to you. Big difference between sexuality and gender; and religions. Let's also not pretend that there aren't a good number of Christians that use the Bible as an excuse to discriminate LBGTs. Anyways, I don't want to go down that road, but consider what you're saying when you say it and how it could be interpreted if that's not what you mean. Boy are you right about not wanting to go down that road. Doubtful for the reasons you think though.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 22:55:32 GMT
So all she says is that learning the Angarans origin makes her question IF god could be mortal... and that she ultimately doesn't believe that because she has faith. Nothing about god being a robot, and not really anything insulting to theism or Christianity (much less religion in general); what Suvi and Ryder say about faith here isn't anything worse/different than what countless (Christian) theologians have said about faith themselves: faith is frequently defined as a leap above and beyond what the evidence or logic alone can establish. And again, since not all religion involves a singular god (or any gods for that matter) or the Christian notion of faith being insulting to all religion isn't even a possibility here. You truly are half reading me. In that very post I admitted I was wrong to say robot. She is callin Him Mortal (which is just as bad but still I was wrong). Faith is absolute trust those who call it without logic generally either embrace that they don't need to know or want to insult it but it doesn't have to be and the Bible actually makes sense if you don't just read the parts taken out of context online. And j didn't say this scene insults all religion I've been talkin about the Kett too. Why only read half of what I say if you want to argue about it with me? I'm not going to respond to every single thing you say in every post you make, and the Kett comment was just a poor argument: including a race with an evil religion is not insulting to religion in general, no more than including an evil person in a game is insulting to people in general: there's no implication that the Kett are somehow a commentary on everyone. And its extremely common in sci-fi/fantasy stories and games that the bad guys belong to an evil cult or religion (often with the main villain as either the god or high priest of that religion). As for Suvi, she doesn't call God mortal, she says that the Angara made her question if God is mortal (not the same thing).. and that she doesn't believe that because she has faith. And characterizing faith as belief in/about God irrespective of (or even contrary to) the evidence is neither ignorant nor an insult, but a view expressed by many Christian thinkers now and throughout history (among them Luther, Kierkegaard, even Aquinas to an extent). You may not agree with it, but it can't really be called insulting to or against Christianity if its a view held by quite a few prominent Christian theologians and philosophers.
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Post by Saboru on May 31, 2017 22:56:35 GMT
When questioned regarding religious belief looks vaguely uncomfortable, mutters something humorous or dismissive and quickly changes the subject. Defintely Christian, that's textbook late 20th century Church of England. Clearly they had a bit of an expansion/revival.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:00:44 GMT
Utter nonsense. Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history. Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B ive been on tumblr and seen modern SJW myself and bioware writers often have the same stances on their Twitter like Weekes does and some non writers like Heir does. Now I don't fully believe they hate Christians or anything but their agenda is clear now. I don't think SJW's are anti religion, but many of them do believe you have certain privileges if you're skin is white, or pink as i see it. All the Bioware writers are white people, why would they openly hate themself? Heir doesn't work at Bioware anymore, and while his racial slurs were unfortunate, he still has freedom of speech to say what he wants. I think Bioware should've fired him of course, but now he is gone, chapter over. As for the Chantry? It is a complete rip off of Christianity and it shows both the positive and negative sides of a huge organized religion. Believe it or not, religion is not perfect, neither is humanity.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:01:37 GMT
Your posts imply and implicate "me vs them" when you say that Bioware catered to them and not to you. Big difference between sexuality and gender; and religions. Let's also not pretend that there aren't a good number of Christians that use the Bible as an excuse to discriminate LBGTs. Anyways, I don't want to go down that road, but consider what you're saying when you say it and how it could be interpreted if that's not what you mean. Boy are you right about not wanting to go down that road. Doubtful for the reasons you think though. Hehe. I hate that idea that they wanted to accuse me and not let me respond so I'm gonna tell you. I said "they insulted Christians, gays, trans. They fixed it for gays and trnas but not religious people. That's a clear 'I care about gay and trans and people who don like the animations. I don't care about religious people"
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:02:54 GMT
Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B ive been on tumblr and seen modern SJW myself and bioware writers often have the same stances on their Twitter like Weekes does and some non writers like Heir does. Now I don't fully believe they hate Christians or anything but their agenda is clear now. I don't think SJW's are anti religion, but many of them do believe you have certain privileges if you're skin is white, or pink as i see it. All the Bioware writers are white people, why would they openly hate themself? Heir doesn't work at Bioware anymore, and while his racial slurs were unfortunate, he still has freedom of speech to say what he wants. I think Bioware should've fired him of course, but now he is gone, chapter over. As for the Chantry? It is a complete rip off of Christianity and it shows both the positive and negative sides of a huge organized religion. Believe it or not, religion is not perfect, neither is humanity. David Gaider is a white man who is a SJW according to himself on twitter patrick weeks is a white man who complains about manspreadinf and mansplaining which are born from social just Warriors on tumblr
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Post by zaefkol on May 31, 2017 23:03:49 GMT
No, the new Bioware is not against Christianity. Or any religion. Truthfully not what it seems like. I believe Casey Hudson himself was religious hence why Mass Effect both cared about religion and science. New writers always tweet about things like mansplaining and other words that are often associated with tumblr. Replacing religion with SJW (and if that's the truth the. go ask a SJW about charity and and they will be very mad. SJW hat people like Christians and if these new devs believe the SJW crowd like David Gaider who said he himself is one, then they'd love to paint chrsitinait in a bad light) Utter nonsense. Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history. Not as they are now, wanting men to stop talking and whites to stop getting jobs and hating me for beinng white but loving me for being gay but hating me for being religious B ive been on tumblr and seen modern SJW myself and bioware writers often have the same stances on their Twitter like Weekes does and some non writers like Heir does. Now I don't fully believe they hate Christians or anything but their agenda is clear now. Well, if I didn't already think that this thread was a joke, I do now. There is certainly a place to discuss religious representation in MEA, in the ME universe, and in Bioware games in general, just as there is certainly a value to be found from having such a discussion. This thread? Not the way to do it. Beginning with an accusation against Bioware and then moving onto this nonsense about SJWs ensured that this would never be a productive discussion.
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Post by KrrKs on May 31, 2017 23:06:27 GMT
[...]characterizing faith as belief in/about God irrespective of (or even contrary to) the evidence is neither ignorant nor an insult Isn't this basically the definition of faith?! (Minus the god part) Also, If it is just these lines bothering you, op, why not take the other response?
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 23:06:54 GMT
Truthfully not what it seems like. I believe Casey Hudson himself was religious hence why Mass Effect both cared about religion and science. New writers always tweet about things like mansplaining and other words that are often associated with tumblr. Replacing religion with SJW (and if that's the truth the. go ask a SJW about charity and and they will be very mad. SJW hat people like Christians and if these new devs believe the SJW crowd like David Gaider who said he himself is one, then they'd love to paint chrsitinait in a bad light) Most 'SJWs' do not hate religion or people who are religious. Also since you mentioned Christianity specifically, one could argue that Jesus Christ himself is one of the biggest SJWs in history. 10/10, nail meet hammer... and why am I not surprised, with the swiss cheese reasoning this thread has presented so far, that the SJW meme would make an appearance? never disappoint, bsn
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 23:07:33 GMT
Hehe. I hate that idea that they wanted to accuse me and not let me respond so I'm gonna tell you. I said "they insulted Christians, gays, trans. They fixed it for gays and trnas but not religious people. That's a clear 'I care about gay and trans and people who don like the animations. I don't care about religious people" Religious doesn't equal christian. Only in your mind this equation even exists. You didn't respond to my post, where you quoted me first, about Cora being a devout jew and Liam a devout muslim. Religions, ergo religious people. Yes, they're not supposed to fix it according to one religion. Suvi never claims to be christian in the first place. You only want her to be christian, since otherwise you had no angle to play the christian (not religious) persecution card.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:08:38 GMT
I don't think SJW's are anti religion, but many of them do believe you have certain privileges if you're skin is white, or pink as i see it. All the Bioware writers are white people, why would they openly hate themself? Heir doesn't work at Bioware anymore, and while his racial slurs were unfortunate, he still has freedom of speech to say what he wants. I think Bioware should've fired him of course, but now he is gone, chapter over. As for the Chantry? It is a complete rip off of Christianity and it shows both the positive and negative sides of a huge organized religion. Believe it or not, religion is not perfect, neither is humanity. David Gaider is a white man who is a SJW according to himself on twitter patrick weeks is a white man who complains about manspreadinf and mansplaining which are born from social just Warriors on tumblr David Gaider is into guys. And Partrick is pro-lgtb. These guys are not sjw asshats you see on tumblr.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:08:54 GMT
If y'all started this out listening to my reasoning and debating with me like a human I'd be able to keep my Coloma s argue more effectively. The very first post was an insult and few of you actually wanted to debate most of you just wanted to mock or be mean
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