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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 23:09:06 GMT
I'm not saying it was singled out. Just that, like with the trans character, if the writer isn't going to take time to research to find out how to properly present the characters and ideas they probably shouldn't write about it at all. I consider myself a person of faith, even if I'm not fervently religious, and I was put off by the way the whole conversation unfolded. If that is the best representation they can do of a religious person they would be better off not injecting the topic into the game. They pretty much didn't research ANYTHING for this game. Like, not even what 50 degrees celcius was, and whether that actually counted as an environmental hazard. So it really doesn't change my argument. I didn't know the person who wrote Leilana wrote the Suvi conversation. Man, have they settled. Actually 50 degrees Celsius is on the dangerous side, very in fact if humidity is high enough.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:09:33 GMT
David Gaider is a white man who is a SJW according to himself on twitter patrick weeks is a white man who complains about manspreadinf and mansplaining which are born from social just Warriors on tumblr David Gaider is into guys. And Partrick is pro-lgtb. These guys are not sjw asshats you see on tumblr. I don't care if he is into guys? I never said he was straight
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:10:13 GMT
Hehe. I hate that idea that they wanted to accuse me and not let me respond so I'm gonna tell you. I said "they insulted Christians, gays, trans. They fixed it for gays and trnas but not religious people. That's a clear 'I care about gay and trans and people who don like the animations. I don't care about religious people" Religious doesn't equal christian. Only in your mind this equation even exists. You didn't respond to my post, where you quoted me first, about Cora being a devout jew and Liam a devout muslim. Religions, ergo religious people. Yes, they're not supposed to fix it according to one religion. Suvi never claims to be christian in the first place. You only want her to be christian, since otherwise you had no angle to play the christian (not religious) persecution card. It also could be offensive to any monotheistic religion and in this thread we learned Ryder can't be Buddhist either
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:10:52 GMT
If y'all started this out listening to my reasoning and debating with me like a human I'd be able to keep my Coloma s argue more effectively. The very first post was an insult and few of you actually wanted to debate most of you just wanted to mock or be mean Saying questioning if god is finite is not bad is an insult?
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:12:16 GMT
David Gaider is into guys. And Partrick is pro-lgtb. These guys are not sjw asshats you see on tumblr. I don't care if he is into guys? I never said he was straight I'm just saying. there is a reason why these 2 writers make so many pro lgtb content. none of it takes way from the game.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:13:23 GMT
Boy are you right about not wanting to go down that road. Doubtful for the reasons you think though. Hehe. I hate that idea that they wanted to accuse me and not let me respond so I'm gonna tell you. I said "they insulted Christians, gays, trans. They fixed it for gays and trnas but not religious people. That's a clear 'I care about gay and trans and people who don like the animations. I don't care about religious people" Well, messing up their religious representation in game doesn't generate headlines on video game and news sites. Messing up their trans character gets them lots of bad publicity. I understand why they were in such a rush to fix that. I don't really get why they messed it up in the first place, like I said earlier if they don't know anything about it they are safer to just not include it in the game. Their lesbian characters have never been "super great" representations but good enough for me to enjoy it in a video game. No complaints from me there. Personally, I do doubt they would care if religious people don't like the Suvi conversations, to me their messaging there was rather clear. But, like I said since it isn't generating headlines it might never have even crossed their radar. As someone that used to love Bioware for the things they have included in their games over the years they are reaching a point where I really question whether they deserve to be supported or not anymore. Pretty common for me though these days, lots of things I used to support I just can't anymore as they move further and further away from my opinions.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:13:36 GMT
Religious doesn't equal christian. Only in your mind this equation even exists. You didn't respond to my post, where you quoted me first, about Cora being a devout jew and Liam a devout muslim. Religions, ergo religious people. Yes, they're not supposed to fix it according to one religion. Suvi never claims to be christian in the first place. You only want her to be christian, since otherwise you had no angle to play the christian (not religious) persecution card. It also could be offensive to any monotheistic religion and in this thread we learned Ryder can't be Buddhist either As I asked before. Asking if god is finite is some how an insult?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:14:32 GMT
I don't care if he is into guys? I never said he was straight I'm just saying. there is a reason why these 2 writers make so many pro lgtb content. none of it takes way from the game. I never said anything agaisnt pro LGBT content. I just said they have a SJW mindset hence the lack of good religious characters and everything else I've been saying in this thread already. And i didnt say Suvi is the reason it's anti religion based on one comment alone. Time and time I've repeated myself to you guys. I'm done talking to people who don't even read what I say
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:15:01 GMT
Hehe. I hate that idea that they wanted to accuse me and not let me respond so I'm gonna tell you. I said "they insulted Christians, gays, trans. They fixed it for gays and trnas but not religious people. That's a clear 'I care about gay and trans and people who don like the animations. I don't care about religious people" Well, messing up their religious representation in game doesn't generate headlines on video game and news sites. Messing up their trans character gets them lots of bad publicity. I understand why they were in such a rush to fix that. I don't really get why they messed it up in the first place, like I said earlier if they don't know anything about it they are safer to just not include it in the game. Their lesbian characters have never been "super great" representations but good enough for me to enjoy it in a video game. No complaints from me there. Personally, I do doubt they would care if religious people don't like the Suvi conversations, to me their messaging there was rather clear. But, like I said since it isn't generating headlines it might never have even crossed their radar. As someone that used to love Bioware for the things they have included in their games over the years they are reaching a point where I really question whether they deserve to be supported or not anymore. Pretty common for me though these days, lots of things I used to support I just can't anymore as they move further and further away from my opinions. I'm sorry but having a character of faith question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 23:15:19 GMT
[...]characterizing faith as belief in/about God irrespective of (or even contrary to) the evidence is neither ignorant nor an insult Isn't this basically the definition of faith?! (Minus the god part) Also, If it is just these lines bothering you, op, why not take the other response? Certainly the most common one, and it may have the strongest historical pedigree, but there's also alot of Christians (both theologians and lay believers) who reject or alter it.. all the way to the extreme end of the spectrum where you have the William Lane Craigs who think that faith in god can be demonstrated on evidential and/or a priori logical grounds (lolfail). The nature of faith is as much an internal dispute among Christians as it as a matter of Christians vs. non-Christians, so characterizing Suvi's comments as insulting or against Christianity/religion isn't very tenable.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:15:29 GMT
Hehe. I hate that idea that they wanted to accuse me and not let me respond so I'm gonna tell you. I said "they insulted Christians, gays, trans. They fixed it for gays and trnas but not religious people. That's a clear 'I care about gay and trans and people who don like the animations. I don't care about religious people" Well, messing up their religious representation in game doesn't generate headlines on video game and news sites. Messing up their trans character gets them lots of bad publicity. I understand why they were in such a rush to fix that. I don't really get why they messed it up in the first place, like I said earlier if they don't know anything about it they are safer to just not include it in the game. Their lesbian characters have never been "super great" representations but good enough for me to enjoy it in a video game. No complaints from me there. Personally, I do doubt they would care if religious people don't like the Suvi conversations, to me their messaging there was rather clear. But, like I said since it isn't generating headlines it might never have even crossed their radar. As someone that used to love Bioware for the things they have included in their games over the years they are reaching a point where I really question whether they deserve to be supported or not anymore. Pretty common for me though these days, lots of things I used to support I just can't anymore as they move further and further away from my opinions. Buts it's not just Suvi. That's part of it but it gets worse
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:15:35 GMT
I don't think SJW's are anti religion, but many of them do believe you have certain privileges if you're skin is white, or pink as i see it. All the Bioware writers are white people, why would they openly hate themself? Heir doesn't work at Bioware anymore, and while his racial slurs were unfortunate, he still has freedom of speech to say what he wants. I think Bioware should've fired him of course, but now he is gone, chapter over. As for the Chantry? It is a complete rip off of Christianity and it shows both the positive and negative sides of a huge organized religion. Believe it or not, religion is not perfect, neither is humanity. David Gaider is a white man who is a SJW according to himself on twitter patrick weeks is a white man who complains about manspreadinf and mansplaining which are born from social just Warriors on tumblr Isn't Gaider the man that quit Tumblr because he hated it, and also wanted romances gone from Bioware games? Don't know that much about Patrick Weekes, but he is a good writer, that is all i care about to be honest. Also we've seen many examples in Bioware's rpg's that they have no issue with talking about religion, and both support/mock it. Which i think is important.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:17:33 GMT
I'm just saying. there is a reason why these 2 writers make so many pro lgtb content. none of it takes way from the game. I never said anything agaisnt pro LGBT content. I just said they have a SJW mindset hence the lack of good religious characters and everything else I've been saying in this thread already. And i didnt say Suvi is the reason it's anti religion based on one comment alone. Time and time I've repeated myself to you guys. I'm done talking to people who don't even read what I say A lack of religious character in no way means they have a super sjw mindset. One was the lead writer of da...which is super religious. and the other wrote mordin...who hints at believing in reincarnation. sorry but you are grasping at straws.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:18:31 GMT
I'm sorry but having a character of faith question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation? I never said anything about "if god is finite". That was never my position.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:18:43 GMT
Well, messing up their religious representation in game doesn't generate headlines on video game and news sites. Messing up their trans character gets them lots of bad publicity. I understand why they were in such a rush to fix that. I don't really get why they messed it up in the first place, like I said earlier if they don't know anything about it they are safer to just not include it in the game. Their lesbian characters have never been "super great" representations but good enough for me to enjoy it in a video game. No complaints from me there. Personally, I do doubt they would care if religious people don't like the Suvi conversations, to me their messaging there was rather clear. But, like I said since it isn't generating headlines it might never have even crossed their radar. As someone that used to love Bioware for the things they have included in their games over the years they are reaching a point where I really question whether they deserve to be supported or not anymore. Pretty common for me though these days, lots of things I used to support I just can't anymore as they move further and further away from my opinions. Buts it's not just Suvi. That's part of it but it gets worse and now they are moving the goal post people. he's now officially has nothing to use as a counter argument.
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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 23:18:47 GMT
It also could be offensive to any monotheistic religion and in this thread we learned Ryder can't be Buddhist either Could it now? I asked you before when you were clamoring for meeting more religious people. What about them being devout muslims or jews trying to rub their religion in your face? Why not answer that question? Uncomfortable about that scenario because it might show that religion has no business being part of a video game? At least not based on real world religions. Which is also the reason why Suvis believes are left vague.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:20:18 GMT
I never said anything about "if god is finite". That was never my position. please reread what i just wrote. Maybe it with comeout clearer this time. "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?"
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:22:01 GMT
It also could be offensive to any monotheistic religion and in this thread we learned Ryder can't be Buddhist either Could it now? I asked you before when you were clamoring for meeting more religious people. What about them being devout muslims or jews trying to rub their religion in your face? Why not answer that question? Uncomfortable about that scenario because it might show that religion has no business being part of a video game? At least not based on real world religions. Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:22:58 GMT
Could it now? I asked you before when you were clamoring for meeting more religious people. What about them being devout muslims or jews trying to rub their religion in your face? Why not answer that question? Uncomfortable about that scenario because it might show that religion has no business being part of a video game? At least not based on real world religions. Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing. suvi did not even say what religion she's part of.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:23:51 GMT
I never said anything about "if god is finite". That was never my position. please reread what i just wrote. Maybe it with comeout clearer this time. "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 23:25:11 GMT
They pretty much didn't research ANYTHING for this game. Like, not even what 50 degrees celcius was, and whether that actually counted as an environmental hazard. So it really doesn't change my argument. I didn't know the person who wrote Leilana wrote the Suvi conversation. Man, have they settled. Actually 50 degrees Celsius is on the dangerous side, very in fact if humidity is high enough. True, but it won't kill you in 5 minutes like it does in Mass Effect, especially if you're in a suit with some level of climate control, which they clearly have.
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Post by Reorte on May 31, 2017 23:25:38 GMT
Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing. That gets tricky in a real-world setting, which even Mass Effect is after a fashion - it's supposed to be set in the future, with the world as it is now as part of its past, so it can look too much like skirting around the issue to be convincing if you're not careful.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:25:47 GMT
They pretty much didn't research ANYTHING for this game. Like, not even what 50 degrees celcius was, and whether that actually counted as an environmental hazard. So it really doesn't change my argument. I didn't know the person who wrote Leilana wrote the Suvi conversation. Man, have they settled. Actually 50 degrees Celsius is on the dangerous side, very in fact if humidity is high enough. It would take a lot of stupidity on the person's fault to become injured, ill, or dead, at 50 degrees C. Thousands of people hike in that temperature every year, and as long as they stay properly hydrated, they're fine. And please recall the 50C was on a desert planet, so humidity was hardly a factor.
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 23:25:48 GMT
I'm just saying. there is a reason why these 2 writers make so many pro lgtb content. none of it takes way from the game. And i didnt say Suvi is the reason it's anti religion based on one comment alone. Time and time I've repeated myself to you guys. I'm done talking to people who don't even read what I say Gimme a break: I asked you what was anti-religion about MEA, and you listed two comments from the Suvi conversation and the Kett being evil, and I pointed out how each of these failed to make MEA "anti-religion". The problem isn't not reading you, the problem is that the arguments you're making fall well short of your conclusion.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:27:04 GMT
please reread what i just wrote. Maybe it with comeout clearer this time. "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with. I was mostly agreeing with you, except that my position was that most of the dialogue was that bad, and badly researched (or not at all), actually.
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