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Post by abaris on May 31, 2017 23:27:10 GMT
suvi did not even say what religion she's part of. And that's the point. She's using the word "creator". Probably by design to not present an exclusive image and profile. Suvi uses the same word the DA series uses. So it's anyone's guess what she believes in. She doesn't say god. Jesus, Allah, Vishnu or Yehowah. Obviously not enough for some people to still jump to conclusions.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:27:24 GMT
Could it now? I asked you before when you were clamoring for meeting more religious people. What about them being devout muslims or jews trying to rub their religion in your face? Why not answer that question? Uncomfortable about that scenario because it might show that religion has no business being part of a video game? At least not based on real world religions. Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing. But they never mention what religion she belongs to, just that she believes in a creator. We don't even know if the religions in the Mass Effect universe are the same as ours are now, or even how they function. I am pretty sure that is why they keep it vague with both Ashley and Suvi. As for Suvi's conversation about religion being a bit weak, i will agree to that, but i don't think it has anything to do with her author. Rather has to do with Andromeda's lack of willingness to present real conflict between its characters.
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2017 23:28:17 GMT
Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim. Why would you say that? Don't rea;lly know the Muslim religion myself but I know a little about Christianity being a Christian myself although tbh I'm not particularly religious as beyond marking the holidays such as Christmas and Easter I kind of stay out of it. Andrastian religion actually reminds me.more of Islam then Christianity. Granted the chantry has a lot of the same trappings as the Catholic church but the ideology is more Muslim. Could you walk me through this? I have trouble telling the Abrahamic religions apart. since others have asked... The Main difference is in how the two view their saviors and salvation for humanity. Jesus was the son of god, man of peace, and while he was there to sort of 'update' the old testament and make parts of it apply to humanity that was not his primary mission...which was to die for all our sins. As with Andraste...and to an extent Mohammed...there was nothing special about their births...they both received their mandates later in life. Both were charged to give (and spread) the word to humanity and both were warriors and conquerors. And while Andrastess death was Christ like upon her death the maker turned his back on humanity instead of restoring the link as is the Christian cannon. As for salvation in Christianity has already more or less been given. This makes Christian obligation in life to simply get others to receive the love of Jesus/ God. And yes this ideal has been corrupted and used for political expansion as far as i can tell this is the gist. Contrast that with both Islam and the chantry part of the salvation personally comes from saving others. While i am a bit fuzzy on the details for Islam. However, the chantry specifically says the maker will only return if the entire world sings the chant of life. And while some like Leilianna or Cassandra support the peaceful spread of this religion, others haven't been as enlightened in the history of Thedas.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:28:19 GMT
Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing. That gets tricky in a real-world setting, which even Mass Effect is after a fashion - it's supposed to be set in the future, with the world as it is now as part of its past, so it can look too much like skirting around the issue to be convincing if you're not careful. Agreed, which is why for ME it is probably better to just leave the topic alone. I'm not against religious topics being included per say but the writer needs to be knowledgeable enough about the topics to present them properly. Just like how their trans character turned around and bit them.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 23:28:50 GMT
And i didnt say Suvi is the reason it's anti religion based on one comment alone. Time and time I've repeated myself to you guys. I'm done talking to people who don't even read what I say Gimme a break: I asked you what was anti-religion about MEA, and you listed two comments from the Suvi conversation and the Kett being evil, and I pointed out how each of these failed to make MEA "anti-religion". The problem isn't not reading you, the problem is that the arguments you're making fall well short of your conclusion. I'm sorry that's after making my point several times I began cutting vronersb yes goig from a gsme steingky founded in biblical moments to a game that the only religion you see calls faith delusional, says those who believe in the afterlife is because you're scared, and refuses to let you be religious, is a huge trade. And yes exaltation is a religious term. The chosen, annoited, destined, cardinal, archons sword. All are similar to Christian titles too.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:30:47 GMT
I'm sorry, could you type slower or something? I'm having a hard time figuring out what "vronersb" and "gsme steingky" mean.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:31:35 GMT
Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing. But they never mention what religion she belongs to, just that she believes in a creator. We don't even know if the religions in the Mass Effect universe are the same as ours are now, or even how they function. I i am pretty sure that is why they keep it vague with both Ashley and Suvi. As for Suvi's conversation about religion being a bit weak, i will agree to that, but i don't think it has anything to do with her author. Rather has to do with Andromeda's lack of willingness to present real conflict between its characters. Which is probably for the best. From what she says in game it doesn't really resemble any religion that I am familiar with. Just a vague, I wanna believe. That was never what I had issue with. And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with. I was mostly agreeing with you, except that my position was that most of the dialogue was that bad, and badly researched (or not at all), actually. Yep, all good. Was just pointing the other poster to my comments.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:31:51 GMT
please reread what i just wrote. Maybe it with comeout clearer this time. "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with. I wrote...""I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" You wrote"And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with." how I dear god did you thing this is about you questioning if god is finite? On that point.....read it again... "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?"
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 23:32:26 GMT
Actually 50 degrees Celsius is on the dangerous side, very in fact if humidity is high enough. It would take a lot of stupidity on the person's fault to become injured, ill, or dead, at 50 degrees C. Thousands of people hike in that temperature every year, and as long as they stay properly hydrated, they're fine. And please recall the 50C was on a desert planet, so humidity was hardly a factor. 122 degrees Fahrenheit is what that turns into and with limited water and solar radiation it is dangerous.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:34:08 GMT
dreman999 is asking "How is having a character of faith question if god is infinite messes up religious representation," because a lot of devout people have done the same thing.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:34:11 GMT
That gets tricky in a real-world setting, which even Mass Effect is after a fashion - it's supposed to be set in the future, with the world as it is now as part of its past, so it can look too much like skirting around the issue to be convincing if you're not careful. Agreed, which is why for ME it is probably better to just leave the topic alone. I'm not against religious topics being included per say but the writer needs to be knowledgeable enough about the topics to present them properly. Just like how their trans character turned around and bit them. Again, why is having a game ask if god is finite a bad thing?
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:34:44 GMT
It would take a lot of stupidity on the person's fault to become injured, ill, or dead, at 50 degrees C. Thousands of people hike in that temperature every year, and as long as they stay properly hydrated, they're fine. And please recall the 50C was on a desert planet, so humidity was hardly a factor. 122 degrees Fahrenheit is what that turns into and with limited water and solar radiation it is dangerous. This is off topic, so I won't pursue this here. But seriously, you don't need to defend EVERY aspect of this game...
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 23:35:30 GMT
Could it now? I asked you before when you were clamoring for meeting more religious people. What about them being devout muslims or jews trying to rub their religion in your face? Why not answer that question? Uncomfortable about that scenario because it might show that religion has no business being part of a video game? At least not based on real world religions. Personally I don't think putting any real world religions in game is a good idea. If they want to cover the topic they should do it the way DA does it with a fantasy religion. Sure they can have inspirations from real religions but they should always be different and fantastical enough to be their own thing. Tolkien actually talked about this (one of his letters I think), which is interesting because he was such a devout Christian and definitely included alot of Christian motifs and themes in the LotR, but he talks about how he doesn't think a proper fantasy world should (explicitly) involve Christianity or any other real religion, and that this was one of the reasons why the Arthurian tales failed to successfully provide the sort of quintessential British mythology Tolkien was hoping to create (with LotR/middle earth). I agree with this completely, if you're going to have religion in your fantasy world it should be a fantasy religion created for that world. And maybe this is part of why the MEA writers wanted to keep Ryders religious beliefs vague, rather than explicitly aligning them with any extant real-world religion: you can confirm that you believe in a deity or higher power, and an afterlife, but nothing more specific than that.
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Post by fygee on May 31, 2017 23:35:39 GMT
I'm sorry, could you type slower or something? I'm having a hard time figuring out what "vronersb" and "gsme steingky" mean. I believe that's Kett. I'll try to adjust my universal translator.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:36:36 GMT
And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with. I wrote...""I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" You wrote"And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with." how I dear god did you thing this is about you questioning if god is finite? On that point.....read it again... "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" I dunno what you want from me here. I never said that a person (Suvi or not) questioning if God is finite messed up the religious representation. Unless you can point out where I said that, I don't have an answer for you.
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Post by Reorte on May 31, 2017 23:38:38 GMT
That gets tricky in a real-world setting, which even Mass Effect is after a fashion - it's supposed to be set in the future, with the world as it is now as part of its past, so it can look too much like skirting around the issue to be convincing if you're not careful. Agreed, which is why for ME it is probably better to just leave the topic alone. I'm not against religious topics being included per say but the writer needs to be knowledgeable enough about the topics to present them properly. Just like how their trans character turned around and bit them. It would seem an odd thing to leave out in the world-building, which goes into enough detail elsewhere. For direct character-to-character stuff though there's no real reason to put it in there at all. If I'm to take the small sample of "people I work with" I know some are religious, some aren't, it was a long time before the topic ever even came up and I found that out. Unless some specific plot-related point happened the most plausible conversation is probably "You religious then?" "Yes, what about you?" Nah", then move on to something else.
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:39:01 GMT
I wrote...""I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" You wrote"And I said that was never my position. I laid it out to R'Shara where I bolded the comments from the Suvi conversation I took issue with." how I dear god did you thing this is about you questioning if god is finite? On that point.....read it again... "I'm sorry but having a character of faith(suvi) question if god is finite is some how messing up religious representation?" I dunno what you want from me here. I never said that a person (Suvi or not) questioning if God is finite messed up the religious representation. Unless you can point out where I said that, I don't have an answer for you. That's the entire issue the op layed out with this topic. The op is upset due to the limited responses to Suvi question if god is finite and what one that suits there own personal religious belief more. Do you not get this?
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Post by q5tyhj on May 31, 2017 23:40:27 GMT
Gimme a break: I asked you what was anti-religion about MEA, and you listed two comments from the Suvi conversation and the Kett being evil, and I pointed out how each of these failed to make MEA "anti-religion". The problem isn't not reading you, the problem is that the arguments you're making fall well short of your conclusion. I'm sorry that's after making my point several times I began cutting vronersb yes goig from a gsme steingky founded in biblical moments to a game that the only religion you see calls faith delusional, says those who believe in the afterlife is because you're scared, and refuses to let you be religious, is a huge trade. And yes exaltation is a religious term. The chosen, annoited, destined, cardinal, archons sword. All are similar to Christian titles too. The game doesn't refuse to let you be religious: Ryder can express belief in a god and an afterlife. That certainly qualifies as religious. You just want the option of having Ryder be even more religious, or religious in a different way. But that's not the same as not being allowed to be religious at all. And the game is not anti-religious or anti-Christianity simply because Suvi/Ryder expresses a conception of faith (one shared/expressed by some very prominent Christian thinkers) that you happen to disagree with. You're basically saying that because MEA doesn't allow you to be religious in precisely the same way you are religious in your own life, it is therefore against religion. But that's just a massive non-sequitur.
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 23:41:28 GMT
122 degrees Fahrenheit is what that turns into and with limited water and solar radiation it is dangerous. This is off topic, so I won't pursue this here. But seriously, you don't need to defend EVERY aspect of this game... And you don't need to hate on every aspect either. I was simply pointing out a fact.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2017 23:41:46 GMT
I dunno what you want from me here. I never said that a person (Suvi or not) questioning if God is finite messed up the religious representation. Unless you can point out where I said that, I don't have an answer for you. That's the entire issue the op layed out with this topic. The op is upset due to the limited responses to Suvi question if god is finite and what one that suits there own personal religious belief more. Do you not get this? Then why are you asking me and not the OP? Do you not get that?
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:45:58 GMT
This is off topic, so I won't pursue this here. But seriously, you don't need to defend EVERY aspect of this game... And you don't need to hate on every aspect either. I was simply pointing out a fact. Ryder is not on limited water. There is not significant radiation on Eladaan You are interjecting suppositions that were not stated and calling them facts. Sorry but no.
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Post by griffith82 on May 31, 2017 23:49:58 GMT
And you don't need to hate on every aspect either. I was simply pointing out a fact. Ryder is not on limited water. There is not significant radiation on Eladaan You are interjecting suppositions that were not stated and calling them facts. Sorry but no. The planet has limited water and like it or not those are hazardous conditions. Are they as bad as the game states? No but I'm not trying to pick apart everything, I'm trying to enjoy the damn game.
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Post by alanc9 on May 31, 2017 23:51:53 GMT
Gimme a break: I asked you what was anti-religion about MEA, and you listed two comments from the Suvi conversation and the Kett being evil, and I pointed out how each of these failed to make MEA "anti-religion". The problem isn't not reading you, the problem is that the arguments you're making fall well short of your conclusion. I'm sorry that's after making my point several times I began cutting vronersb yes goig from a gsme steingky founded in biblical moments to a game that the only religion you see calls faith delusional, says those who believe in the afterlife is because you're scared, and refuses to let you be religious, is a huge trade. And yes exaltation is a religious term. The chosen, annoited, destined, cardinal, archons sword. All are similar to Christian titles too. I think the italed is where you went off the rails. You deluded yourself into thinking that the trilogy writers treated religion as anything other than a convenient source of useful tropes.
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Post by R'Shara on May 31, 2017 23:52:52 GMT
Ryder is not on limited water. There is not significant radiation on Eladaan You are interjecting suppositions that were not stated and calling them facts. Sorry but no. The planet has limited water and like it or not those are hazardous conditions. Are they as bad as the game states? No but I'm not trying to pick apart everything, I'm trying to enjoy the damn game. The planet does but Ryder doesn't. If you don't want to pick apart the game why did you pick my post of the 6+ pages to nitpick?
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Post by dreman999 on May 31, 2017 23:52:57 GMT
That's the entire issue the op layed out with this topic. The op is upset due to the limited responses to Suvi question if god is finite and what one that suits there own personal religious belief more. Do you not get this? Then why are you asking me and not the OP? Do you not get that? I already asked them. many times. I'm just getting ground back to the point of the topic and to actually look at the religious aspects of MEA you are offended by, not just be offended by them.
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