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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 8:31:30 GMT
Don't really want to get involved in this (my thoughts are clear in the second post) but it always strikes me as amusing that people are so quick to claim things like fluffy bunnies and unicorns being evidence of God, but not this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrotizing_fasciitisOdd that. I may have missed something, but who talked about fluffy bunnies or unicorns ? What strikes me as amusing is that both Quiggles and you are using caricatures to defend your agnostic / atheist positions. People tend to use this kind of technique when they are angry (what I can understand when one has been more or less forced to be religious when he doesn't wanted to) or aware that their arguments are weak. Saying that this universe has been created from an intention is not the same thing than saying that beautiful flowers are God's signature. So unpleasants things exist so it's a clue that God doesn't ? Lol ! This argument -one of the most used by atheists- is as idiot as saying that pleasant things is the sign that God exist. People should realize that pleasant can't exist without unpleasant. In a world where everything is pleasant, nothing really is, as much as hot means nothing without cold or light without dark. I find amazing how many people nowadays are ungrateful ; humanity basically knows nothing yet and struggles to create a simple lifeform in a lab, and yet a good numbers of persons complain about a universe that has produced billions of planets and lifeforms as complicated as the human beings. Astonishing... I've yet to hear a good atheist argument, to be honest...
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Post by vonuber on Jun 2, 2017 8:38:19 GMT
I've yet to hear a good atheist argument, to be honest...
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Post by unwanted on Jun 2, 2017 9:12:18 GMT
I think they are anti everything, but if your overweight, lesbian, have more metal stuck in your face than a steel warehouse, purple hair, tattoos on everything but your pride, and eat nothing but stuff that makes your poo green, then your the perfect Bioware person.
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Post by Psychevore on Jun 2, 2017 9:22:34 GMT
Don't really want to get involved in this (my thoughts are clear in the second post) but it always strikes me as amusing that people are so quick to claim things like fluffy bunnies and unicorns being evidence of God, but not this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrotizing_fasciitisOdd that. I may have missed something, but who talked about fluffy bunnies or unicorns ? What strikes me as amusing is that both Quiggles and you are using caricatures to defend your agnostic / atheist positions. People tend to use this kind of technique when they are angry (what I can understand when one has been more or less forced to be religious when he doesn't wanted to) or aware that their arguments are weak. Saying that this universe has been created from an intention is not the same thing than saying that beautiful flowers are God's signature. So unpleasants things exist so it's a clue that God doesn't ? Lol ! This argument -one of the most used by atheists- is as idiot as saying that pleasant things is the sign that God exist. People should realize that pleasant can't exist without unpleasant. In a world where everything is pleasant, nothing really is, as much as hot means nothing without cold or light without dark. I find amazing how many people nowadays are ungrateful ; humanity basically knows nothing yet and struggles to create a simple lifeform in a lab, and yet a good numbers of persons complain about a universe that has produced billions of planets and lifeforms as complicated as the human beings. Astonishing... I've yet to hear a good atheist argument, to be honest... Read his post again, you didn't even understand the basic premise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 9:40:03 GMT
I may have missed something, but who talked about fluffy bunnies or unicorns ? What strikes me as amusing is that both Quiggles and you are using caricatures to defend your agnostic / atheist positions. People tend to use this kind of technique when they are angry (what I can understand when one has been more or less forced to be religious when he doesn't wanted to) or aware that their arguments are weak. Saying that this universe has been created from an intention is not the same thing than saying that beautiful flowers are God's signature. So unpleasants things exist so it's a clue that God doesn't ? Lol ! This argument -one of the most used by atheists- is as idiot as saying that pleasant things is the sign that God exist. People should realize that pleasant can't exist without unpleasant. In a world where everything is pleasant, nothing really is, as much as hot means nothing without cold or light without dark. I find amazing how many people nowadays are ungrateful ; humanity basically knows nothing yet and struggles to create a simple lifeform in a lab, and yet a good numbers of persons complain about a universe that has produced billions of planets and lifeforms as complicated as the human beings. Astonishing... I've yet to hear a good atheist argument, to be honest... Read his post again, you didn't even understand the basic premise. What are you talking about ?
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Post by Psychevore on Jun 2, 2017 9:50:38 GMT
Read his post again, you didn't even understand the basic premise. What are you talking about ? 'So unpleasants things exist so it's a clue that God doesn't ?' That's not what he said, at all. Didn't even come close. Rather the opposite: why obviously bad things like flesh eating diseases are never used to 'prove' the existence of God. It's always the cuddly good stuff. Like when a plane crashes and there's maybe 2 survivors and 300+ deaths. The religious always call the 2 survivors a miracle by God, yet they always fail to call the 300+ deaths a mass murder by God.
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Post by vonuber on Jun 2, 2017 10:17:32 GMT
Although I have to say it was only through the Glory and Mercy of God that in His Love for us He made sure that not only did my partner and I lose a child at 3 months, she had to basically give birth to the dead foetus which was excruciatingly painful and emotionally awful. I am thankful that in His Wisdom and Grace He put us through that to appreciate his true Glory.
Bunch of fucktards the lot of you, of all brands and stripes.
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 2, 2017 10:31:57 GMT
We still arguing about sky wizards being real or not? I don't care what people believe or choose to worship but debating if these religions are true or not is just silly to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 10:36:30 GMT
What are you talking about ? 'So unpleasants things exist so it's a clue that God doesn't ?' That's not what he said, at all. Didn't even come close. Rather the opposite: why obviously bad things like flesh eating diseases are never used to 'prove' the existence of God. It's always the cuddly good stuff. Like when a plane crashes and there's maybe 2 survivors and 300+ deaths. The religious always call the 2 survivors a miracle by God, yet they always fail to call the 300+ deaths a mass murder by God. I disagree with that. I browsed a few weeks ago a book from a french author who was supporting the thesis that God doesn't exist. One of his main arguments was along the lines "if a God existed, there wouldn't be all these bad things happening on Earth !". This argument also comes back often in the mouth of atheists in forums. I find it thoughless and immature. I know vonuber is more intelligent than that. About the relgious and miracles, I don't know. I think, at least in Europe, most religious are very careful nowadays before claiming for a miracle. Some of them are even questioning the miracles described in the Gospels and stating that they believe "despite the miracles" (!). I assume it's different in the United States, where the "secularization" is less important.
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Post by Psychevore on Jun 2, 2017 10:43:30 GMT
'So unpleasants things exist so it's a clue that God doesn't ?' That's not what he said, at all. Didn't even come close. Rather the opposite: why obviously bad things like flesh eating diseases are never used to 'prove' the existence of God. It's always the cuddly good stuff. Like when a plane crashes and there's maybe 2 survivors and 300+ deaths. The religious always call the 2 survivors a miracle by God, yet they always fail to call the 300+ deaths a mass murder by God. I disagree with that. I browsed a few weeks ago a book from a french author who was supporting the thesis that God doesn't exist. One of his main arguments was along the lines "if a God existed, there wouldn't be all these bad things happening on Earth !". This argument also comes back often in the mouth of atheists in forums. I find it thoughless and immature. I know vonuber is more intelligent than that. About the relgious and miracles, I don't know. I think, at least in Europe, most religious are very careful nowadays before claiming for a miracle. Some of them are even questioning the miracles described in the Gospels and stating that they believe "despite the miracles" (!). I assume it's different in the United States, where the "secularization" is less important. You don't get to disagree with that, because neither vonuber nor me is that French author you read about a few weeks ago. You're not talking to that French author, you're talking to us and we are not making that statement. That's because in Europe, we don't do religion all that much anymore. But that's not the point here, the point is that the religious fail to see the evil in the God they supposedly know so well. They only see the rainbows and hear the children's laughter, yet fail to understand that if those come from a divine entitity, that same entity is responsible for parasites living in that same child's eye, using the eyeball of the child as a nursery to raise it's offspring, blinding it in the process.
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Post by vonuber on Jun 2, 2017 10:51:16 GMT
Quite. I am sure the same people would say my two girls are a blessing from god, whilst ignoring the one who didn't make it.
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Post by jasonpogo on Jun 2, 2017 11:04:12 GMT
I will never understand these arguments. I am 100% an atheist. And for the life of me can't see why I should care one way or another about anyone else and what they think. trying to convert people to your way of thinking no mattter what it is, is the true evil.
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Post by wildannie on Jun 2, 2017 11:29:21 GMT
If a higher power or 'god' created everything, all the good things, and all the bad things then the point of worshiping them completely escapes me as they clearly don't have our wellbeing at heart. Some of the best people I have ever met, have had some of the worst luck, while evil arseholes coast through life, and don't even get me started on the daily atrocities in the news every day. If this 'god' does not have the power or desire to look after what is good in the universe, what's the chance that they have a lovely kingdom for all those who are 'good' after death? To me it is a nonsense.
I also believe that it is very unlikely that the big bang was caused by intelligent design, but if it was I'd guess they're long dead by now.
Re OP: I don't think BW are against christianity, I think they want to raise questions about religion and belief in general and encourage players to think about these questions.
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Post by goishen on Jun 2, 2017 11:31:50 GMT
Because eventually they'll start God talking to you, and start to say that you're an immoral and evil person if you don't go to church. I live in the deep south, I know what the fuck I'm talking about. And you might say, "Well, that's not so bad... I give up five minutes every week..." No, try about 4 hours every damn day. And that's on a good day.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 2, 2017 11:47:41 GMT
Most Christian vs. Atheis debates I've seen come down to attacking or defending some popular cliches.
The best way to stop this kind of idiotic discussion is asking either side "have you read the book?"
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Post by setokaiba on Jun 2, 2017 11:51:45 GMT
Most Christian vs. Atheis debates I've seen come down to attacking or defending some popular cliches. The best way to stop this kind of idiotic discussion is asking either side "have you read the book?" This. And in most cases the answer is no.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 2, 2017 12:10:06 GMT
I will never understand these arguments. I am 100% an atheist. And for the life of me can't see why I should care one way or another about anyone else and what they think. trying to convert people to your way of thinking no mattter what it is, is the true evil. Not to mention that no one is going to instantly drop their beliefs they've held for years (or lack thereof) from an online argument they had with a complete stranger.
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Post by abaris on Jun 2, 2017 12:20:01 GMT
As long as the leave me be, I extend the same courtesy to them. If they're demanding for more religion in a frigging game or try to shove their religious views down the throats of everyone, it becomes everyone's business. Freedom isn't a one way street. Believe what you want, but don't bitch and moan over the general public not subscribing to your ideas.
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Post by timebean on Jun 2, 2017 13:44:03 GMT
I am an atheist. I try not to be a jerk about it (but it happens, I guess).
- I played DAI, and managed to enjoy it without cringing every other second because I was playing as the head of the friggen INQUISITION. I enjoyed the characters and stories and music and quests. I got over it.
- I remember an older woman crying in one of my college classes because she had accidentally let her child read Harry Potter without realizing it was "devilish and anti-christian". I figured she had the right to raise her kids how she wanted. I got over it.
- I was on a field trip out west, and looking at displays of the natural arches in Arches National Park. I listened as a father explained to his kid that the arches formed when God poked his finger through them (instead of reading the cool displays that explained how they really formed). I hoped the kid would take a geology class in school one day, but figured it was none of my business either way. I got over it.
- I sat silently while my hairdresser tried to explain how Gandalf was a symbolic for Jesus in the Lord of the Rings, even though Tolkien was famous for despising allegory. I realized she needed this to allow her kids to watch it without "corrupting" them. I got over it.
- Now I sit and read posts insinuating that Bioware is playing it safe with their writing and pandering to atheists because Ryder doesn't get to proclaim that God is an awesome god. I laugh and sigh at the state of the world. Because I am over it.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 2, 2017 13:52:23 GMT
I will never understand these arguments. I am 100% an atheist. And for the life of me can't see why I should care one way or another about anyone else and what they think. trying to convert people to your way of thinking no mattter what it is, is the true evil. Yes, THIS is spot on! Basically nails me to a tee. Don't really care what anyone believes and have no issue with spirituality being presented in the game.
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Post by abaris on Jun 2, 2017 13:57:23 GMT
- I played DAI, and managed to enjoy it without cringing every other second because I was playing as the head of the friggen INQUISITION. I enjoyed the characters and stories and music and quests. I got over it. Head of the Inquisition or not. You can tell Cassandra you don't believe in the creator and still be head of the Inquisition. I never once said, I'm a believer in that game, nor did I ever claim to be the chosen of Andraste. Same with MEA. You can deny Suvi's claim right from the start. That's the beauty of it. Noone forces you into anything you aren't comfortable playing.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 2, 2017 14:29:55 GMT
Funny enough, I like to claim to be the Herald of Andraste purely for political purposes. I may have different conversations depending on who I talk to. So my privately held beliefs may be non-existent regarding a creator but publicly I'll say the Maker sent me. Win-win! Not that it'll matter once a closer personal friend of mine is installed as the Divine.
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Post by correctamundo on Jun 2, 2017 14:38:55 GMT
Most Christian vs. Atheis debates I've seen come down to attacking or defending some popular cliches. The best way to stop this kind of idiotic discussion is asking either side "have you read the book?" This. And in most cases the answer is no. I have forced myself through that atrocious piece of literature. And enough of the other one as well. Gaaawwd really is the epicenter of bad writing.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 2, 2017 14:52:23 GMT
Funny enough, I like to claim to be the Herald of Andraste purely for political purposes. I may have different conversations depending on who I talk to. So my privately held beliefs may be non-existent regarding a creator but publicly I'll say the Maker sent me. Win-win! Not that it'll matter once a closer personal friend of mine is installed as the Divine. I thought DAI handled the dialogue well in this regard (Andrastian or not) as it was often reflected in dialogue available. For example, only an Andrastian Inquisitor can declare to be a servant of Andraste (or something to that effect) once reaching Skyhold, or claim to be chosen by Andraste to Corypheus. Dalish can believe in elven gods or not, and can even convert to Andrastianism if it suits your role-play. And so on.
The only cringy part of the Andrastian theme for me in DAI was when everyone started singing. And even then, I wasn't bothered. I just thought it was funny in an awkward way and started laughing (when I first saw it). It had more to do with how it was presented though, imo, than the actual theme/reason.
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Post by abaris on Jun 2, 2017 14:55:03 GMT
Funny enough, I like to claim to be the Herald of Andraste purely for political purposes. I may have different conversations depending on who I talk to. So my privately held beliefs may be non-existent regarding a creator but publicly I'll say the Maker sent me. Win-win! Not that it'll matter once a closer personal friend of mine is installed as the Divine. Yeah, sometimes I do too. For political reasons to gain some support. Such as the Wardens.
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