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Post by arvaarad on Jul 16, 2017 20:50:15 GMT
While I don't mind how it was done in Inquisition, I do hope we'll have more moments with demons that are like the Envy Demon in the sense that there are conversations and/or scenes that show more the nature of the demons in question. I also like quests where a deal has already happened and you're experiencing the aftermath like with Allure or what happened at Chateau d'Onterre. Oh, it's not that I think there should be no demons as merely enemies at all. Although I would like for the demon enemies to better match their supposed method. Dragon Age II had a habit of spamming desire demons as mooks when that hasn't how desire demons were said to primarily operate as far as I recall. They're feeding off your desire to not fight them.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 16, 2017 20:53:18 GMT
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Post by arvaarad on Jul 16, 2017 21:05:12 GMT
Exactly - it sounds like they're generating more desire than the classic desire demons. The classic ones keep trying to seduce you, but the mooks have discovered an even more effective strategy: "let's make this person desire not to see us!" As you try to get rid of them, they only grow stronger.
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Post by quickleaf on Jul 18, 2017 0:26:16 GMT
Clearly the new character in DA4 is Corsa the Jackal...or the bear...or the dragon...
A lot of folks talk about the big scale of events in the Dragon Age meta-story, but I actually am hoping for a more personal story in DA4, or at least a stronger personal story merged with the gods & politics. And far fewer meaningless fetch quests which just littered Inquisition. I remember on of the devs on ME:Andromeda mentioning how they were starting to look to Witcher 3 for inspiration on how to do side quests right; hopefully the team working on DA4 is taking similar inspiration.
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Post by phoray on Jul 18, 2017 0:45:24 GMT
Corsa the Jackal is obviously a clue. We got: A bard A Bear A Dragon The Winter Palace A Tavern A cave. They were digging in Orlais for the Archdemon.---Archdemon confirmed.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 18, 2017 0:53:34 GMT
Clearly the new character in DA4 is Corsa the Jackal...or the bear...or the dragon... A lot of folks talk about the big scale of events in the Dragon Age meta-story, but I actually am hoping for a more personal story in DA4, or at least a stronger personal story merged with the gods & politics. And far fewer meaningless fetch quests which just littered Inquisition. I remember on of the devs on ME:Andromeda mentioning how they were starting to look to Witcher 3 for inspiration on how to do side quests right; hopefully the team working on DA4 is taking similar inspiration. Well... I have three words for you: Jaws Of Hakkon. Came out before Witcher 3 and was generally praised for quality of side-quests. In other words - I think people harp too much about side-quests, esp. as if the devs don't hear them (when they clearly did) and I'm somewhat annoyed by the fact that their efforts may be considered to be largely inspired/copied/ripped-off from TW3, instead of being a natural progression, especially if taken in consideration that DAI was the first ever RPG made on a new engine.
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Post by arvaarad on Jul 18, 2017 14:16:30 GMT
Clearly the new character in DA4 is Corsa the Jackal...or the bear...or the dragon... Context: "The Tale of Corsa" is from The Seer's Yarn, a collection of Thedosian children's stories that came with WoT2. I just checked my copy, and it turns out he's on the cover! The Seer's Yarn is actually hysterical, I highly recommend it. Most of the children's stories in it are just as dark as this one (they even have children's stories from the Qunari in there).
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Post by tacsear on Jul 18, 2017 18:47:22 GMT
Clearly the new character in DA4 is Corsa the Jackal...or the bear...or the dragon... A lot of folks talk about the big scale of events in the Dragon Age meta-story, but I actually am hoping for a more personal story in DA4, or at least a stronger personal story merged with the gods & politics. And far fewer meaningless fetch quests which just littered Inquisition. I remember on of the devs on ME:Andromeda mentioning how they were starting to look to Witcher 3 for inspiration on how to do side quests right; hopefully the team working on DA4 is taking similar inspiration. DA4 being a personal story is nearly impossible. You got Solas, you got TevinterxQunari war, you got slavery in Tevinter. You cannot resolve them in a personal story. I would be fully on board with the protagonist being more characterised and the protagonis not being a chosen one, but the events gonna be big scaled
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Post by quickleaf on Jul 19, 2017 2:56:27 GMT
Clearly the new character in DA4 is Corsa the Jackal...or the bear...or the dragon... A lot of folks talk about the big scale of events in the Dragon Age meta-story, but I actually am hoping for a more personal story in DA4, or at least a stronger personal story merged with the gods & politics. And far fewer meaningless fetch quests which just littered Inquisition. I remember on of the devs on ME:Andromeda mentioning how they were starting to look to Witcher 3 for inspiration on how to do side quests right; hopefully the team working on DA4 is taking similar inspiration. DA4 being a personal story is nearly impossible. You got Solas, you got TevinterxQunari war, you got slavery in Tevinter. You cannot resolve them in a personal story. I would be fully on board with the protagonist being more characterised and the protagonis not being a chosen one, but the events gonna be big scaled There are many examples of movies dealing with big scope events that still manage to evoke a strong personal character-driven narrative; some war movies spring to mind like Casa Blanca, The Savior, Forrest Gump and Saving Private Ryan (and I'm suspecting the upcoming Dunkirk). I mentioned Witcher 3 earlier, but that would be a video game example of striking a good balance. In Inquisition, I felt my character was just a puppet, and didn't really have an investment in the overarching story. Whereas in Origins, there was more investment – not as much as I'd have liked, but still it was something, whereas the Inquisitor felt a bit hollow, a cardboard cutout. The Inquisitor's story could be summed up as "I've got a mark on my hand, and some think I'm divine." The only real character-defining question the game lets you answer is "do you think you're divinely chosen or not?" And even if you say "yes" SPOILERS... that perspective is later cast in serious doubt by revelations in the game. Back to DA4... One way they might make a personal story that the player has more investment in is starting with a personal story tied to Tevinter's slavery that dovetails into the larger story of Solas' elven rebellion, or beginning with the PC as part of the Soporati and exploring the "awakening of magic" at a very personal scale of what that means to them, or a Grey Warden's individual connection to the last of the griffons, etc.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 19, 2017 4:41:34 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 19, 2017 8:08:33 GMT
DA4 being a personal story is nearly impossible. You got Solas, you got TevinterxQunari war, you got slavery in Tevinter. You cannot resolve them in a personal story. I would be fully on board with the protagonist being more characterised and the protagonis not being a chosen one, but the events gonna be big scaled There are many examples of movies dealing with big scope events that still manage to evoke a strong personal character-driven narrative; some war movies spring to mind like Casa Blanca, The Savior, Forrest Gump and Saving Private Ryan (and I'm suspecting the upcoming Dunkirk). I mentioned Witcher 3 earlier, but that would be a video game example of striking a good balance. Apples and oranges. You're talking about movies - a linear story which you, as member of the audience, have no control over. And Witcher has a fixed protagonist. VERY fixed. A whole, well-established book and game series fixed. This is very different compared to games where the story is non-linear and when you're playing a custom PC and RPing to build their personality, motivations and so on. ... If the only thing you got from Inquisition is "I've got mark on my hand and some think I'm divine" then you haven't really been paying attention. Besides - if we're going into gross oversimplifications, the Warden can be easily summed up as "Welp, only two Wardens are alive across whole of Ferelden, I guess it's time to build an army with those treaties handed to me..." I don't really think that DA series will be going back to personal stories, especially to extent you're expecting them to. Even Mike Laidlaw went on length to explain why they likely won't in his recent interview. Origins served a purpose - they introduced us to the world that was new to us. And they're really, very expensive to make, so they take precious space and resources. This is why DAO never went much anywhere outside of Ferelden and why we hardly got to know anything about what the heck actually the Blight is and where it comes from. ... And now we're inching towards learning about mysteries of Elvenhan, possibly Dwarves too, potentially the Blight, where the whole shenanigans started, but do so while trying to stop potential end of the world from hands of ancient godlike figure. Oh, and let's not forget an almost-certain Qunari invasion...
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 19, 2017 8:21:00 GMT
....Cullen returning, maybe even being playable or being the one stopping the Apocalypse? What the hell? Is this info based on fanfiction of some sort? And I'm not saying this because I dislike the character or something, but out of all companions, or at least advisers, Cullen to me seems the LEAST likely to appear even as a cameo, much less an important PC He has too many quantum states. Unlike even Inquisitor he's not put in one spot in the narrative at the end of Trespasser. He can be dead or hopelessly mad from lyrium poisoning, or back in Ferelden or leading what's left from Inquisition under Chantry...
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Post by tacsear on Jul 19, 2017 8:29:57 GMT
DA4 being a personal story is nearly impossible. You got Solas, you got TevinterxQunari war, you got slavery in Tevinter. You cannot resolve them in a personal story. I would be fully on board with the protagonist being more characterised and the protagonis not being a chosen one, but the events gonna be big scaled There are many examples of movies dealing with big scope events that still manage to evoke a strong personal character-driven narrative; some war movies spring to mind like Casa Blanca, The Savior, Forrest Gump and Saving Private Ryan (and I'm suspecting the upcoming Dunkirk). I mentioned Witcher 3 earlier, but that would be a video game example of striking a good balance. In Inquisition, I felt my character was just a puppet, and didn't really have an investment in the overarching story. Whereas in Origins, there was more investment – not as much as I'd have liked, but still it was something, whereas the Inquisitor felt a bit hollow, a cardboard cutout. The Inquisitor's story could be summed up as "I've got a mark on my hand, and some think I'm divine." The only real character-defining question the game lets you answer is "do you think you're divinely chosen or not?" And even if you say "yes" SPOILERS... that perspective is later cast in serious doubt by revelations in the game. Back to DA4... One way they might make a personal story that the player has more investment in is starting with a personal story tied to Tevinter's slavery that dovetails into the larger story of Solas' elven rebellion, or beginning with the PC as part of the Soporati and exploring the "awakening of magic" at a very personal scale of what that means to them, or a Grey Warden's individual connection to the last of the griffons, etc. You really compare movies to games? That's not how it works. And Witcher set Grealt's story from the start, they built up on it from the first game and he had 7 books of backstory. I like the PC to have more personality than the inquisitior I've said that but it is very unlikely to be a personal story
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 19, 2017 9:33:48 GMT
....Cullen returning, maybe even being playable or being the one stopping the Apocalypse? What the hell? Is this info based on fanfiction of some sort? And I'm not saying this because I dislike the character or something, but out of all companions, or at least advisers, Cullen to me seems the LEAST likely to appear even as a cameo, much less an important PC He has too many quantum states. Unlike even Inquisitor he's not put in one spot in the narrative at the end of Trespasser. He can be dead or hopelessly mad from lyrium poisoning, or back in Ferelden or leading what's left from Inquisition under Chantry... I read this, and I'm pretty sure whoever wrote this "news" has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 19, 2017 11:23:24 GMT
....Cullen returning, maybe even being playable or being the one stopping the Apocalypse? What the hell? Is this info based on fanfiction of some sort? And I'm not saying this because I dislike the character or something, but out of all companions, or at least advisers, Cullen to me seems the LEAST likely to appear even as a cameo, much less an important PC He has too many quantum states. Unlike even Inquisitor he's not put in one spot in the narrative at the end of Trespasser. He can be dead or hopelessly mad from lyrium poisoning, or back in Ferelden or leading what's left from Inquisition under Chantry... I read this, and I'm pretty sure whoever wrote this "news" has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. The other video I saw speculates that we may see vampires in Thedas.... Dragon Age: Twilight? But yeah, to call these rumors unfounded is an understatement. Makes me wonder what else will people invent the closer we get to release date...
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Post by quickleaf on Jul 19, 2017 20:36:16 GMT
There are many examples of movies dealing with big scope events that still manage to evoke a strong personal character-driven narrative; some war movies spring to mind like Casa Blanca, The Savior, Forrest Gump and Saving Private Ryan (and I'm suspecting the upcoming Dunkirk). I mentioned Witcher 3 earlier, but that would be a video game example of striking a good balance. Apples and oranges. You're talking about movies - a linear story which you, as member of the audience, have no control over. And Witcher has a fixed protagonist. VERY fixed. A whole, well-established book and game series fixed. This is very different compared to games where the story is non-linear and when you're playing a custom PC and RPing to build their personality, motivations and so on. My invitation to the designers would be: While maintaining a quasi-open world and a custom PC, what would a RPG look like that really invested the player in the story through the lens of their character? You're suggesting these are mutually exclusive game design goals. I disagree. I don't think it's easy, but I think it's possible. If the only thing you got from Inquisition is "I've got mark on my hand and some think I'm divine" then you haven't really been paying attention. Besides - if we're going into gross oversimplifications, the Warden can be easily summed up as "Welp, only two Wardens are alive across whole of Ferelden, I guess it's time to build an army with those treaties handed to me..." [/quote] Since we're trading niceties, it appears you weren't paying attention to what I was saying. Obviously there were thousands of lines of dialogue and character relationships in Inquisition. I'm not contesting that. I'm saying that the way Bioware approached the theme felt hollow because there weren't any real meaningful choices for my character to make that defined him as a character. By contrast, in the Witcher 3 – where there's a strongly pre-defined character (Geralt) – I felt like I was able to steer Geralt's choices in ways that mattered, I felt much more investment/care/emotion in the story, I felt I was defining my character *even more* than Inquisition, where you can have hundreds of permutations of hair color, ear height, tattoos, race, etc. For me personally, that demonstrates it's more a question of storytelling, and less a question of "make-your-own-PC" vs. "pre-defined PC." I don't really think that DA series will be going back to personal stories, especially to extent you're expecting them to. Even Mike Laidlaw went on length to explain why they likely won't in his recent interview. Origins served a purpose - they introduced us to the world that was new to us. And they're really, very expensive to make, so they take precious space and resources. This is why DAO never went much anywhere outside of Ferelden and why we hardly got to know anything about what the heck actually the Blight is and where it comes from. ... And now we're inching towards learning about mysteries of Elvenhan, possibly Dwarves too, potentially the Blight, where the whole shenanigans started, but do so while trying to stop potential end of the world from hands of ancient godlike figure. Oh, and let's not forget an almost-certain Qunari invasion...[/quote][/quote] That's fine. I'm probably not EA/Bioware's target demographic. But it's disingenuous to claim that the expensive origin stories in DA: Origins are the *only* way to tell a personal story in a "create-your-own-PC" RPG.
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Post by Legenlorn on Jul 21, 2017 12:11:47 GMT
Here is a theory for you guys. Seeing as there is no info on the tactical dragon age game being developed as a seperate ip, I wonder if they are developing it as a feature for DA4 ala gwent from TW3. What ido you peeps think about this theory?
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 14:31:15 GMT
Apples and oranges. You're talking about movies - a linear story which you, as member of the audience, have no control over. And Witcher has a fixed protagonist. VERY fixed. A whole, well-established book and game series fixed. This is very different compared to games where the story is non-linear and when you're playing a custom PC and RPing to build their personality, motivations and so on. My invitation to the designers would be: While maintaining a quasi-open world and a custom PC, what would a RPG look like that really invested the player in the story through the lens of their character? You're suggesting these are mutually exclusive game design goals. I disagree. I don't think it's easy, but I think it's possible. It's easy to sit there and invite designers to a challenge, while comparing their open-world, non-linear, new-PC-each-game to movies or games that dedicated whole game series (and a book series before that) to one fixed character. So yes, in many respects things you're talking about (considering what you're comparing them to) are either mutually exclusive or expensive to the point of not being viable in foreseeable future. That's not to say that they don't have enough field to experiment; just not to an extent that you're proposing. It is a question of 'make-your-own-PC' and 'pre-defined' PC, precisely because we hear the same sort of thing when people describe playing Hawke or Shepard. Ironically, the more defined PC is, the less of a need is there to accommodate ALL the possible ways the player would want to define their custom characters, which in itself requires different writing, different choices and different scopes. Geralt is Geralt no matter how you play him - he will always be a Witcher, he will always have a very fixed past, he will always be a father figure to Ciri (even if he can screw up in this regard) and he will always have relationships with Triss or Yennefer. All we're doing when we're making choices for Geralt is refining, rather than defining him. In Inquisition, on the other hand, you can play characters with completely different backgrounds - you can be a Carta dwarf, you can be a Qunari mercenary, you can be a human noble or a human Circle mage or you can play either the Dalish First or Warrior or hunter. Now think about how many permutations have to be written for each background and how much time has to be allotted to give the character definition compared to already established character like Geralt? It really is not rocket science. Oh please. You were very specific with what you want to see and you even said origin stories didn't provide 'as much as you'd like' in terms of personal story. So however you'd like the story to be told would be expensive either way. The issue isn't even 'origin stories' per se, but the amount of permutations, cinematics, characters, locations and story that would need to be created for each background - and if each background follows a different, personal story, all the more money and resources have to be spent there, instead of somewhere else. There's no way around it and no empty claims of disingenuity will change it. Also - as it happens I do indeed believe that origin stories are not the only way to tell a personal story in RPG with custom PC - which is why I think the personal story of Inquisitor is fine as it is, even if I don't think it perfect.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 21, 2017 14:35:11 GMT
Here is a theory for you guys. Seeing as there is no info on the tactical dragon age game being developed as a seperate ip, I wonder if they are developing it as a feature for DA4 ala gwent from TW3. What ido you peeps think about this theory? I think either Mark Darrah or Mike Laidlaw have already stated that the tactical game would be separate from main game, and I don't think they'd claim so if the game would just be a feature in DA4. More than likely they wouldn't be talking about it at all, given that they're very adamant to NOT talk about anything that could happen or would be present in DA4.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 21, 2017 15:32:57 GMT
Here is a theory for you guys. Seeing as there is no info on the tactical dragon age game being developed as a seperate ip, I wonder if they are developing it as a feature for DA4 ala gwent from TW3. What ido you peeps think about this theory? I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of in-universe game as a mini-game: I was very fond of Pazaak in both games and I was more amused than I probably should be by how the quest to save the universe was funded by illegal gambling. I liked how Pazaak was something played against NPCs and with companions. It was simple, fun, exploitable and very importantly, optional.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 23, 2017 4:55:58 GMT
Back to DA4... One way they might make a personal story that the player has more investment in is starting with a personal story tied to Tevinter's slavery that dovetails into the larger story of Solas' elven rebellion, or beginning with the PC as part of the Soporati and exploring the "awakening of magic" at a very personal scale of what that means to them, or a Grey Warden's individual connection to the last of the griffons, etc. Yes, I believe a story where you start as a Tevinter slave, and then somehow get caught up in Solas' elf rebellion is the most likely plot of this game. Personally, I would love a Spartacus style storyline, but with the Qunari and Elven Rebellion going on at the same time, a toppling of the Tevinter Imperium via slave rebellion doesn't seem likely. But then again, that could be a solid act 1-2 and final culminating Act 3 could involve Solas' Rebellion squaring off against the Qunari threatening to throw all of Thedas into chaos.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 23, 2017 15:30:39 GMT
Back to DA4... One way they might make a personal story that the player has more investment in is starting with a personal story tied to Tevinter's slavery that dovetails into the larger story of Solas' elven rebellion, or beginning with the PC as part of the Soporati and exploring the "awakening of magic" at a very personal scale of what that means to them, or a Grey Warden's individual connection to the last of the griffons, etc. Yes, I believe a story where you start as a Tevinter slave, and then somehow get caught up in Solas' elf rebellion is the most likely plot of this game. Personally, I would love a Spartacus style storyline, but with the Qunari and Elven Rebellion going on at the same time, a toppling of the Tevinter Imperium via slave rebellion doesn't seem likely. But then again, that could be a solid act 1-2 and final culminating Act 3 could involve Solas' Rebellion squaring off against the Qunari threatening to throw all of Thedas into chaos. I have my doubts we'd be overwhelmingly focused on Tevinter - yes, the Imperium and its woes will likely serve as a background and big events in it will likely be weaved through the narrative... but we're long past DA game that would be as something as "minor" as slave rebellion in a country that a.) isn't as relevant anymore compared to when Andraste/Shartan was rebelling against it b.) will be completely overshadowed by threat of Qunari invasion c.) both it AND Qunari rebellion will be overshadowed by threat of end of the world and who knows what else. I think there may be the slave uprising, but PC won't be the leader of it (pretty high chance Calpernia may return to take that role) and most of it will probably be resolved through politicking or quick decisions at the top; kinda like plight of the Casteless was dealt with (temporarily at least) in DAO, by picking either Bhelen or Harrowmont, or how decision who we put on Orlesian throne in DAI decided how elves of Orlais will be treated further. It's possible, for example, that the Imperium may be forced to free their slaves or make some other decisions just to save themselves from Qunari and the extent of our involvement will mostly limit to being a messenger between sides of conflict or picking which side we support/boost. IMO, DA4 will be focused predominantly on chasing Solas AND figuring out the mystery of the past and its relation to Tevinter and Thedas as a whole, rather than internal affairs of Tevinter. And there's a strong possibility that, whichever background we may start with, we will end up recruited as agent of Inquisition (or, potentially, some other influential group) and work mostly from shadows in order to influence events or figure out how to stop the world from ending. The extent of involvement of Qunari remains to be seen - they may serve just as an external threat that will mostly keep the Tevinter-related plot moving, or they may be something more: after all, we've already seen in Trespasser that they know more about Elvenhan and its secrets than we think they do and the discovery of routes through eluvians that allowed them to almost blow Southern leadership to smithereens may not be the only thing they kept a secret almost until it was too late.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jul 23, 2017 16:05:24 GMT
Here is a theory for you guys. Seeing as there is no info on the tactical dragon age game being developed as a seperate ip, I wonder if they are developing it as a feature for DA4 ala gwent from TW3. What ido you peeps think about this theory? I think either Mark Darrah or Mike Laidlaw have already stated that the tactical game would be separate from main game, and I don't think they'd claim so if the game would just be a feature in DA4. More than likely they wouldn't be talking about it at all, given that they're very adamant to NOT talk about anything that could happen or would be present in DA4. From a recent tweet from Mark, it looks like they never went forward with the Tactics Game idea. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahThings I (EP of The Dragon Age Franchise) am NOT currently working on: Anthem Mass Effect Jade Empire™ A DA Tactics game Star Wars ...
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 24, 2017 10:57:01 GMT
IMO, DA4 will be focused predominantly on chasing Solas AND figuring out the mystery of the past and its relation to Tevinter and Thedas as a whole, rather than internal affairs of Tevinter. And there's a strong possibility that, whichever background we may start with, we will end up recruited as agent of Inquisition (or, potentially, some other influential group) and work mostly from shadows in order to influence events or figure out how to stop the world from ending. The extent of involvement of Qunari remains to be seen - they may serve just as an external threat that will mostly keep the Tevinter-related plot moving, or they may be something more: after all, we've already seen in Trespasser that they know more about Elvenhan and its secrets than we think they do and the discovery of routes through eluvians that allowed them to almost blow Southern leadership to smithereens may not be the only thing they kept a secret almost until it was too late. I don't think we will see much of the Inquisition at all. I disbanded it in my "ideal" world state, kept it in my "chaotic" one. I think we will see references to it, and there will be slight differences depending on whether you disbanded or kept it. But we will likely be traveling to a NEW nation, and leaving behind our old world-states for the most part. Just like in DA2 how we never saw Fereldan again, and in Inquisition we never saw much of the Free Marches. Many speculate that going north to Tevinter and Par Vollen is the only way the vast differences in world-states can realistically be made into a game. Things like who you have elected as Divine, whether the Inquisition is around or not, how much political strife is going on in Orlais, etc can easily be explained in codex entries if we don't visit any of those locations again.
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