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Post by tacsear on Jul 24, 2017 11:12:54 GMT
I hope playing as an evil Magister who sacrifices his slaves to summon demons and control minds will be possible
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 24, 2017 11:25:26 GMT
I also think that initially we will be embroiled in the Tevinter/Qunari war which is something that may have to be resolved before we can deal with Solas, just as we had to deal with the threat from Loghain and settle the various problems with our potential allies before we took on the archdemobn. I'm pretty convinced that Solas and his agents will be using the chaos provided by the war to allow them to track down whatever artefacts or people they need to put his plan into motion.
At the very least it will mean that the on-going conflict is going to provide problems we have to deal with but they may even get you to choose one side or the other to assist you in tracking down the Dread Wolf. The Magisterium's willingness to help will be out of self interest in that they don't want a bunch of powerful pseudo elf-gods throwing their weight around (particularly if they know that much of their knowledge originally came from elven ruins), plus of course Solas has indicated that none of the modern races will survive dropping the Veil. Meanwhile the Qunari's co-operation will come from the fact that they want to reduce the level of magical influence in the world even without the prospect of immediate annihilation.
Choosing between Tevinter and the Qunari as short-term allies does seem to me to be a typical Bioware type scenario. Neither would appear to be ideal if you are not one of the ruling elite (which would be particularly relevant to an ex-slave PC) but either might be able to make a case for why you should ally with them in order to defeat Solas and save the world, which would be the ultimate aim.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 24, 2017 16:20:42 GMT
IMO, DA4 will be focused predominantly on chasing Solas AND figuring out the mystery of the past and its relation to Tevinter and Thedas as a whole, rather than internal affairs of Tevinter. And there's a strong possibility that, whichever background we may start with, we will end up recruited as agent of Inquisition (or, potentially, some other influential group) and work mostly from shadows in order to influence events or figure out how to stop the world from ending. The extent of involvement of Qunari remains to be seen - they may serve just as an external threat that will mostly keep the Tevinter-related plot moving, or they may be something more: after all, we've already seen in Trespasser that they know more about Elvenhan and its secrets than we think they do and the discovery of routes through eluvians that allowed them to almost blow Southern leadership to smithereens may not be the only thing they kept a secret almost until it was too late. I don't think we will see much of the Inquisition at all. I disbanded it in my "ideal" world state, kept it in my "chaotic" one. I'm fairly certain we will. Inquisition is never fully disbanded or absorbed. No matter of decision or world-state we see post-epilogue scene where Inquisitor and their new Inner Circle decides to 'find someone Solas doesn't know'. In fact it's Inquisitor who implies that we're going to Tevinter. So why accept that we're going to see Tevinter so easily, and not the person deciding we're going there? ...Yet in Inquisition we're back to Ferelden and in fact half of plot happens in it or in between it or Orlais. Nevermind that DA2 was a smaller game that was initially just supposed to be an expansion of DAO and serves mostly to set some things up before Inquisition. Also - we're traveling to new nation, but we're taking old problems with us. There's a reason why we were introduced to Dorian, or why we fought Venatori and ancient Tevinter horror. There's a reason why we get to learn of Qunari plans in Trespasser and their imminent invasion on Imperium after they failed to blow Southern leadership. There's a reason why Inquisitor learns of ancient elves and Solas's plans and it's he/she that declares that they will either stop or redeem the Dread Wolf. Sure, I agree that we're likely moving on a map in order to erase the burden of some plots or loose threads created by multiple world-states, but that hardly means that we're just starting a clean new chapter in Dragon Age. Not with how Trespasser has ended, and not with David Gaider pretty strongly implying (in one of his interviews) that DA4 will effectively be the 2nd part of Inquisition.
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Post by phoray on Jul 25, 2017 1:51:45 GMT
snip Choosing between Tevinter and the Qunari as short-term allies does seem to me to be a typical Bioware type scenario. Neither would appear to be ideal if you are not one of the ruling elite (which would be particularly relevant to an ex-slave PC) but either might be able to make a case for why you should ally with them in order to defeat Solas and save the world, which would be the ultimate aim. Also echoes. "Mages vs Templars" in new clothes!
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Jul 25, 2017 5:31:07 GMT
snip Choosing between Tevinter and the Qunari as short-term allies does seem to me to be a typical Bioware type scenario. Neither would appear to be ideal if you are not one of the ruling elite (which would be particularly relevant to an ex-slave PC) but either might be able to make a case for why you should ally with them in order to defeat Solas and save the world, which would be the ultimate aim. Also echoes. "Mages vs Templars" in new clothes! More like Mageocratic Slave Masters vs Orwellian Communists.
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Post by Fredward on Jul 25, 2017 6:08:26 GMT
Do ya'll think we'll be able to become Archon if we're a mage? We haven't been able to be a ruler (of a pre-existing thing) since DAO, I wouldn't mind playing the first elven Archon. Or even qunari but there's a pretty decent argument to be made that that might be a bit much for Tevinter what with a war and all but it'd be dope.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 25, 2017 8:47:37 GMT
Do ya'll think we'll be able to become Archon if we're a mage? We haven't been able to be a ruler (of a pre-existing thing) since DAO, I wouldn't mind playing the first elven Archon. Or even qunari but there's a pretty decent argument to be made that that might be a bit much for Tevinter what with a war and all but it'd be dope. No. My money is on Archon Dorian of House Pavus first of his name
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 25, 2017 11:10:40 GMT
I don't think we will see much of the Inquisition at all. I disbanded it in my "ideal" world state, kept it in my "chaotic" one. I'm fairly certain we will. Inquisition is never fully disbanded or absorbed. No matter of decision or world-state we see post-epilogue scene where Inquisitor and their new Inner Circle decides to 'find someone Solas doesn't know'. In fact it's Inquisitor who implies that we're going to Tevinter. So why accept that we're going to see Tevinter so easily, and not the person deciding we're going there? ...Yet in Inquisition we're back to Ferelden and in fact half of plot happens in it or in between it or Orlais. Nevermind that DA2 was a smaller game that was initially just supposed to be an expansion of DAO and serves mostly to set some things up before Inquisition. Also - we're traveling to new nation, but we're taking old problems with us. There's a reason why we were introduced to Dorian, or why we fought Venatori and ancient Tevinter horror. There's a reason why we get to learn of Qunari plans in Trespasser and their imminent invasion on Imperium after they failed to blow Southern leadership. There's a reason why Inquisitor learns of ancient elves and Solas's plans and it's he/she that declares that they will either stop or redeem the Dread Wolf. Sure, I agree that we're likely moving on a map in order to erase the burden of some plots or loose threads created by multiple world-states, but that hardly means that we're just starting a clean new chapter in Dragon Age. Not with how Trespasser has ended, and not with David Gaider pretty strongly implying (in one of his interviews) that DA4 will effectively be the 2nd part of Inquisition. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the Inquisition as organization won't make a reappearance. Perhaps the founding inner circle will play a role, but I dont think they'll do it under the Inquisition banner. I feel the Inquisition fulfilled its role, and now it's time for another group to emerge. Whether it's a smaller scale group like Origins or DA2 had or not remains to be seen. Honestly, I'm not basing this off of any evidence. Just my gut feeling for hiw every other Dragon Age game has gone.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 25, 2017 11:40:32 GMT
I'm fairly certain we will. Inquisition is never fully disbanded or absorbed. No matter of decision or world-state we see post-epilogue scene where Inquisitor and their new Inner Circle decides to 'find someone Solas doesn't know'. In fact it's Inquisitor who implies that we're going to Tevinter. So why accept that we're going to see Tevinter so easily, and not the person deciding we're going there? ...Yet in Inquisition we're back to Ferelden and in fact half of plot happens in it or in between it or Orlais. Nevermind that DA2 was a smaller game that was initially just supposed to be an expansion of DAO and serves mostly to set some things up before Inquisition. Also - we're traveling to new nation, but we're taking old problems with us. There's a reason why we were introduced to Dorian, or why we fought Venatori and ancient Tevinter horror. There's a reason why we get to learn of Qunari plans in Trespasser and their imminent invasion on Imperium after they failed to blow Southern leadership. There's a reason why Inquisitor learns of ancient elves and Solas's plans and it's he/she that declares that they will either stop or redeem the Dread Wolf. Sure, I agree that we're likely moving on a map in order to erase the burden of some plots or loose threads created by multiple world-states, but that hardly means that we're just starting a clean new chapter in Dragon Age. Not with how Trespasser has ended, and not with David Gaider pretty strongly implying (in one of his interviews) that DA4 will effectively be the 2nd part of Inquisition. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the Inquisition as organization won't make a reappearance. Perhaps the founding inner circle will play a role, but I dont think they'll do it under the Inquisition banner. I feel the Inquisition fulfilled its role, and now it's time for another group to emerge. Whether it's a smaller scale group like Origins or DA2 had or not remains to be seen. Honestly, I'm not basing this off of any evidence. Just my gut feeling for hiw every other Dragon Age game has gone. Actually, each Dragon Age title actually went in its own direction of sorts So there's no way of saying if DA4 will follow any sort of 'key' people think they have. It's not easy for a group to emerge, and DAI especially took great pains and time in order to establish the organization, which I suspect is done specifically so we'd have a force able to work to quash more than just one crisis. There are reasons to think so, one of the being that a 'small scale group' like decimated Grey Wardens (who remain ever more decimated at the end of DAI) and... what exactly group emerged in DA2? I don't think there was any... Anyway - no 'small scale group' IMO would be able to deal with crisis awaiting us in DA4. At this point, Inquisition (whether it retains its name or banner) is the only organization that we know so far that has even a shadow of a chance to succeed. Even after events in Trespasser - they're the ones who have funds, connections across the continent and, most importantly, knowledge in order to thwart Solas. And if somebody mentions that Solas knows Inquisition's inner workings - well, this is exactly why Leliana brought it up, and exactly why Inquisitor tells us that they will find people Solas doesn't know.
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Post by auronvigo on Jul 25, 2017 12:01:36 GMT
I'm hoping we get a better villain than the one we got in Andromeda. If we have a chance to bump into the Archon or the Black Divine at least one of them needs to be utterly deplorable.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 25, 2017 12:10:30 GMT
I think my main reasons for hoping that it's an organization other than the Inquisition is because it is tied to the Chantry. Even with the electing of a new Divine of your choosing, I'm a bit tired of the Chantry storyline. I would prefer a new group, not Wardens, not Chantry, not Templars and Mages, something a little fresh.
And with a new protagonist, I don't think they're going to retell the story of joining the Inquisition.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 25, 2017 13:17:37 GMT
I think my main reasons for hoping that it's an organization other than the Inquisition is because it is tied to the Chantry. Even with the electing of a new Divine of your choosing, I'm a bit tired of the Chantry storyline. I would prefer a new group, not Wardens, not Chantry, not Templars and Mages, something a little fresh. And with a new protagonist, I don't think they're going to retell the story of joining the Inquisition. Why? But don't worries, probably we'll get new organization, for example the Magisterium, and Tevinter Chantry. T also think, that the Southern-Andrastian Chantry's story's over with the new Divine, because they wouldn't able to handle well the different Divines according the players choices. Divine Victoria will be only a footnote. Not to mention, if Solas tears down the sky ...
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 25, 2017 14:32:24 GMT
.
Well if they keep to the version of Archon Radonis shown in the comic series he doesn't strike me as particularly sinister, just your usual arrogant leader absolutely convinced of his right to rule and determined to stay that way. Clearly he doesn't have so much power that he could openly move against the supporters of the Venatori and his elven slave/liberati seemed loyal, which speaks well of his treatment of those lesser than himself. He is also said to be fond of cats, although that does bring to mind a vision of Blofeld and his white Persian.
However, I have high hopes for the Black Divine. He has already been set up in Asunder as being a treacherous political schemer with no qualms about using blood magic to achieve his aims, which will automatically bring him into conflict with Dorian and the Lucerni. Dorian also mentioned how Urian casually left a state ball early in order to undertake a bit of assassination personally. The very fact that he doesn't even bother to hide what he does shows how much power he holds, so much so that he is almost untouchable. He and his cronies have very effectively blocked any attempts to investigate their activities. So I am very hopeful that he will prove a worthy adversary.
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Post by fuzzyshep on Jul 25, 2017 16:01:02 GMT
I'm hoping we get more interesting voice options brought in than the usual american/british, y'know? If the story takes place outside of Ferelden or the Free Marches (or even if it doesn't), what if our protag has the option of an Antivan accent? Orlesian? Something. I'd be so down with VAs doing similar work to Lelianna or Zevran instead of it always being the NPCs. :)
Imagine the headcanon possibilities. Hapless Antivan Crow Stumbles Into War Nonsense And Saves World By Accident.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 25, 2017 18:08:34 GMT
I think my main reasons for hoping that it's an organization other than the Inquisition is because it is tied to the Chantry. Even with the electing of a new Divine of your choosing, I'm a bit tired of the Chantry storyline. I would prefer a new group, not Wardens, not Chantry, not Templars and Mages, something a little fresh. I'm afraid that unless we go to Par Volen or more exotic places, we're going to be stuck with the Chantry either way. It's not something that can be easily shrugged off, especially given how intrinsic it was to the story and world it is at this point, directly or indirectly. Tevinter has its own Chantry too, and even if it ain't Andrastian one it is the country that basically made Andraste into who she is for the South. I have a feeling that she's not going away anytime soon - not until we get closer to who exactly she heard and followed and if there are any parts of Chant of Light that are at least somewhat accurate. This is exactly why I said that they went through great pains to set up Inquisition in DAI - thanks to them telling that story in DA3, they don't have to retell the story of new PC joining new organization again. Otherwise it'd have to happen - whether we're talking about an already-existing organization we don't yet know about or something new, time and resources would have to be spent in order to establish it in the narrative. With Inquisition in the place - with its leader still alive and aware what's going on, resources, connections and time-sensitive mission (and with Inky declaring that they're effectively moving to Tevinter, so presence of Inquisition there is pretty much guaranteed), a lot of narrative time is released to do something else; maybe even delve more into PC's more personal story alongside them potentially being recruited by Inquisition. And if it does happen, it will not not be the same story, precisely because of what happened in DA3 and Trespasser. Also, we don't even know if we're going to get new protagonist - or just one protagonist.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 25, 2017 18:10:16 GMT
I'm hoping we get a better villain than the one we got in Andromeda. If we have a chance to bump into the Archon or the Black Divine at least one of them needs to be utterly deplorable. ... Why would Andromeda writing have anything to do with DA writing? Those are different teams. Even if they share some writers, the leads are separate and they've been working on that story long before MEA was even finished.
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Post by auronvigo on Jul 25, 2017 21:42:52 GMT
. Well if they keep to the version of Archon Radonis shown in the comic series he doesn't strike me as particularly sinister, just your usual arrogant leader absolutely convinced of his right to rule and determined to stay that way. Clearly he doesn't have so much power that he could openly move against the supporters of the Venatori and his elven slave/liberati seemed loyal, which speaks well of his treatment of those lesser than himself. He is also said to be fond of cats, although that does bring to mind a vision of Blofeld and his white Persian. However, I have high hopes for the Black Divine. He has already been set up in Asunder as being a treacherous political schemer with no qualms about using blood magic to achieve his aims, which will automatically bring him into conflict with Dorian and the Lucerni. Dorian also mentioned how Urian casually left a state ball early in order to undertake a bit of assassination personally. The very fact that he doesn't even bother to hide what he does shows how much power he holds, so much so that he is almost untouchable. He and his cronies have very effectively blocked any attempts to investigate their activities. So I am very hopeful that he will prove a worthy adversary. Urian sounds amazing. I never supported Petrice but she was one of the best parts of DA2 for me. The games seem to spoon feed the idea that Tevinter slaves are the mistreated and the exploited. If the corruption goes as deep as they say, if the competition for jobs and status is that brutal, then I fully expect the slaves to have cutthroat tactics of their own. I wonder how much of that we will get to see, and how much will be brushed aside to make screen time for the bigger characters.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 25, 2017 21:57:47 GMT
Urian sounds amazing. I never supported Petrice but she was one of the best parts of DA2 for me. The games seem to spoon feed the idea that Tevinter slaves are the mistreated and the exploited. If the corruption goes as deep as they say, if the competition for jobs and status is that brutal, then I fully expect the slaves to have cutthroat tactics of their own. I wonder how much of that we will get to see, and how much will be brushed aside to make screen time for the bigger characters. We know slaves have a hierarchy amongst themselves so I expect that would be the case. I'm reminded of Briala's mother who framed another servant so that Briala, instead of the servant's daughter, would become Celene's handmaid. There are likely slaves that do the same to achieve certain work for themselves or their children. This wouldn't necessarily be for ambitious reasons alone as it'd likely also be for survival or to better the lot of them or their family. Some may also do this to save themselves or theirs if they are in a household that is not so kind to its slaves. That's why I would love a slave origin because it'd allow the player to see this and experienced it from the inside. It's unlikely to be much visible on the outside. I do hope that the slavery in Tevinter is not simplified since I feel that would be as much a disservice as were said slavery white-washed.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 25, 2017 22:03:26 GMT
I also think that initially we will be embroiled in the Tevinter/Qunari war which is something that may have to be resolved before we can deal with Solas, just as we had to deal with the threat from Loghain and settle the various problems with our potential allies before we took on the archdemobn. I actually really hope this is not the case. I don't really want to be thrust into the role of a figure resolving an entire geopolitical conflict this time. Sure we can be involved in a localized level, allowing for the sort of choice between allies that you describe, but for the most part I hope the war is treated as a backdrop for the conflict between us and Solas, hopefully not even being fully resolved by the end. I rather like how the Witcher 3 handled this. You actually could influence the fate of nations, but it was not part of the main plot and actually done in a way that seemed reasonable, by killing or influencing leaders. I would rather the main plot focused on the Solas conflict than have it divide its focus like they did in Inquisition, resulting in weak resolutions to all that buildup for the mage-templar conflict and the Orlesian civil war.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 26, 2017 13:05:35 GMT
I'm just going by the writers track record for the DA universe.
DAO, which a lot of people claim is their favourite, had no end of conflict resolution which you had to undertake in order to acquire your army: Deal with Dalish/Werewolf conflict (option of choosing one side or the other as well as solving problem); Decide monarchy of Orzammar (choose one or the other and elevate them to power); Deal with problems in Mage Tower (option of annulment as recommended by Templars instead of saving mages); Deal with problems in alienage (can opt for doing a deal with the slaver if you wish); Neutralise Loghain and decide on monarchy of Ferelden. All of these had to be done before you could proceed to killing the archdemon.
By contrast DA2 was somewhat muted in its resolution of conflict but then we were confined to one city and its surroundings and the story was about one person's rise to power than saving the world. Major obstacles to overcome before achieving the pinnacle of your success: Qunari occupation (Act 2); Mage/Templar conflict (Act 3).
DAI seemed back to the DAO formula: Need to save the world from evil one but before you can do this you must resolve conflicts: End Mage/Templar war; End Orlesian Civil War; Deal with problems in Grey Wardens - all of which gave you far more control over the outcome than the actual organisation/state that should have been deciding these things. In some ways they were more connected with the main plot than in DAO because the big bad was behind the failure to resolve these things by the powers in charge, starting with the explosion at the Peace Conference.
So it would be unusual for us not to become involved with determining the outcome of some major conflict in the next game and since the one set up in Trespasser is a resumption of open warfare between Tevinter and the Qunari, it seems logical to assume that is the one they will give us. Of course it may be they will keep it more localised, like deciding on the next Archon or Black Divine, but it will probably involve some political decision on the part of the PC. Don't get me wrong, I would like the emphasis to be on dealing with Solas since there will be no world to govern and fight over if his plan comes to fruition but then you could have said the same about the darkspawn in DAO (as in fact the Templar did in Lothering) but that didn't stop the warring until we came along.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 26, 2017 13:32:01 GMT
I have to agree. The story of Hawke and Kirkwall was so muted compared to the epicness of rallying a nation and allies of 3 different races to defeat a threat to the entire known world, that Hawke has always seemed lame in comparison to the Warden.
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 27, 2017 0:54:44 GMT
I have to agree. The story of Hawke and Kirkwall was so muted compared to the epicness of rallying a nation and allies of 3 different races to defeat a threat to the entire known world, that Hawke has always seemed lame in comparison to the Warden. But that was the whole point; Hawke's story was a more personal saga than yet another Generic Chosen One and the Armies of Light Versus Dark Lord Number 246 and the Legions of Hell Version 100.5 I'll be the first to agree that Hawke should have had more agency, but I would hate to think that the DA team will continue throwing out the baby with the bathwater and never try it again. You can have a story with complex and intimate characters, with a smaller and tighter focus, and still be epic .
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Dreadnaw Rising
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phoray
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Post by phoray on Jul 27, 2017 1:52:33 GMT
I love DA2. But one thing it did do was actually make Mages vs Templars a thing. It was totally "whatever" in DAO for me. DAI would have been a similar "whatever" about their war without DA2.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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gervaise21
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gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 27, 2017 13:00:26 GMT
It's strange but I seem to recall that DG said something about how some of them wanted DAO originally to be more like DA2, in other words focussed more on ordinary world politics in a particular area but they were over-ruled by others who wanted the epic save the world scenario and definite big bad to defeat. So in a way DA2 was trying to showcase the alternate way of doing things. Unfortunately, because of lack of time and resources that diminished the execution of the idea, everyone compared it unfavourably with DAO and so those on the team in favour of the "save the world" premise would seem to have been vindicated. However, I would say the idea was good but the negatives associated with the game overshadowed its merits. I would be happy to return to a similar premise in the future if more time and resources could be given to implementing it properly. However, not in the next game for the simple reason that if we do not deal with the Solas problem and finish the storyline started in DAI (get the 2nd half which was left out of DAI) I shall scream in frustration, particularly since by the time we get to play it we will already likely have waited 4-5 years from Trespasser let alone the main game.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 8,027 Likes: 19,618
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gateway beverage
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midnight tea
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midnighttea
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 27, 2017 13:12:46 GMT
It's strange but I seem to recall that DG said something about how some of them wanted DAO originally to be more like DA2, in other words focussed more on ordinary world politics in a particular area but they were over-ruled by others who wanted the epic save the world scenario and definite big bad to defeat. So in a way DA2 was trying to showcase the alternate way of doing things. Unfortunately, because of lack of time and resources that diminished the execution of the idea, everyone compared it unfavourably with DAO and so those on the team in favour of the "save the world" premise would seem to have been vindicated. However, I would say the idea was good but the negatives associated with the game overshadowed its merits. I would be happy to return to a similar premise in the future if more time and resources could be given to implementing it properly. However, not in the next game for the simple reason that if we do not deal with the Solas problem and finish the storyline started in DAI (get the 2nd half which was left out of DAI) I shall scream in frustration, particularly since by the time we get to play it we will already likely have waited 4-5 years from Trespasser let alone the main game.The overwhelming implication of Trespasser paired with Gaider interview is that dealing with Solas IS the 2nd part of Inquisition. After all, that's what we ended with in the game's epilogue - stopping Solas being the new mission.
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