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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 15:12:03 GMT
Well DA is moving from a dark fantasy to a white knight fantasy so, as far as choices and impact, i don't expect much, of course this is pure speculation tho. Choice-impact isn't the problem here. Just look at DAI epilogues. The real problem is the lack of dark themes and fear of political correctness well in my honest opinion, through the game honestly i don't see any great change regardless of choices made, aside from who you leave in the fade and who you side to seal the breach, even the quest wicked hearts it's a joke, and with all that i see hardly a difference, aside from some characters and some dialogue lines. I read some of them, and i can't hardly see anything impactful, and anyway the epilogues has always been what if thing, never what would happen in the next games. and yeah, i agree with you, no dark themes, fear of political correctness, and some other things that are dooming what really is Dragon Age, and you can add this to the list of many features that are gone and never will come back. ironically is like the taint, it's slowly dying.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 16:06:13 GMT
Don't know if you are kidding or not but what does young Dorian's drinking and sleeping around have to do with being a responsible magister in the present and future of his life? He left his home and turned his back on his family to help his friend, stop his former mentor and to do what is right and then joined the inquisition - that takes guts and a strong character. In Trespasser he is going back to fulfill his duty to his family and country and to try to make things better- an admirable quality. If I am not mistaken. My point is that "magisters and their reponsibilities" made him miserable for at least a decade. And his love of his country is the only thing that has dragged him into the magisterium, not a innate desire to be one. Desire or not, I think he would be able to take the responsibility. Anyway, I never had any problem with crowning Alistair (I don't have world, where Alistair is Grey Warden – only king, or drunk).
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Post by phoray on Sept 10, 2017 17:43:56 GMT
My point is that "magisters and their reponsibilities" made him miserable for at least a decade. And his love of his country is the only thing that has dragged him into the magisterium, not a innate desire to be one. Desire or not, I think he would be able to take the responsibility. Anyway, I never had any problem with crowning Alistair (I don't have world, where Alistair is Grey Warden – only king, or drunk). How can you be against Warden Alistair but not Drunk Alistair?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 17:46:24 GMT
Desire or not, I think he would be able to take the responsibility. Anyway, I never had any problem with crowning Alistair (I don't have world, where Alistair is Grey Warden – only king, or drunk). How can you be against Warden Alistair but not Drunk Alistair? My Cousland wanted the Throne, and spared Loghain to Anora as wedding gift. (I'm not against Warden Alistair, just prefer King Alistair.)
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 10, 2017 18:05:35 GMT
May be the reason the Pavus's didn't have more than one child is that they couldn't. These old Altus bloodlines are likely very in-bred and that may have manifested itself as poor fertility. You could equally ask why Alexius and his wife (who were a love match) had only one child, or Maevaris' parents. Clearly there must be something lying behind the having only one heir.
As for Dorian's ambitions, in WoT2 Alexius writes to his father after rescuing him from the elven slum brothel. "He is rather despondent over the life's path you've charted for him.....and thus I think a part of him sabotages all efforts to keep him on the straight and narrow." Clearly the problems were there long before his father thought of using blood magic on him.
Another person is quoted as saying that "Halward has bragged about his talented son, how the boy would one day be the next Archon." It would seem that it wasn't enough for his son to inherit his seat in the Magisterium but Halward was hoping to persuade Archon Radonis to make Dorian his heir. This would suggest that Radonis doesn't have an heir of his own. You also cannot become Archon if you hold a seat in the Magisterium, so Halward clearly thought making his son Archon was better than being a Magister. Now Halward was part of the consiliare to the Archon, a sort of inner circle advisory body, so he was very close to the Archon, until Dorian's antics and his own botched attempts to control him, forced him to resign his position. He still had enough influence to get Dorian made Ambassador to the Inquisition (ignore Dorian's attempts to play this down, you do not make someone your ambassador unless you trust them to represent your country properly). So it was likely that Halward might have been successful in his endeavours had Dorian played along with them but it was the fact that he had no say in the matter that Dorian resented and this would likely have been the case even if his sexuality hadn't caused problems.
So, unless the ban against Magisters becoming Archon is reversed in fact neither Dorian, or Maevaris can become Archon because they are already Magisters.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 10, 2017 18:17:23 GMT
Well DA is moving from a dark fantasy to a white knight fantasy so, as far as choices and impact, i don't expect much, of course this is pure speculation tho. Choice-impact isn't the problem here. Just look at DAI epilogues. The real problem is the lack of dark themes and fear of political correctness What exactly is a problem with DAI epilogues and why are supposedly bereft of dark themes and how do they fear political correctness? I don't get it. I don't get the incessant attempt to try and portray DAI as "Disneyified" (and when I hear that, I have to wonder whether people who say that watched Disney at all, considering how effing dark their movies can be). So I have to wonder - is it because main campaign dared to end up on something of an upbeat note? We defeated Corypheus and things didn't fall apart completely. Look at all this whiteknighting! ...You realize this is a setup before everything comes crashing down in Trespasser, right?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 18:20:23 GMT
Concerning background of our next hero, I think (well, I HOPE) this will be the first DA game where Bioware will break their "the next protagonist must be from country we visited in previous game" pattern. Seriously, is there anyone who wants to play as someone with Orlaisian accent? Depends on who they get as the VAs. There are some VAs who can do amazing French accents without it being annoying.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 18:23:30 GMT
In view of the heated nature of the debate over Calpernia I will simply point out that regardless of how any of us view her, what you need to consider is how the writers portray her and they clearly want you to see her in a sympathetic light. This is reinforced by her entry in WoT2 and the fact that they leave her fate open to question, suggests that they might be considering bringing her back. Also, it is noticeable on the CoJ path that if you let her go her own way after confronting her with the evidence about Corypheus, Dorian approves of your action and says that "Tevinter could do with more people like her". So the Tevinter good guy who has had us going round killing off former colleagues who joined the Venatori, thinks that Calpernia is okay once her eyes have been opened. So whilst you may think she is a black hearted fiend, clearly the writers do not. Then to the writers I say: Also not a fan of Dorian so his vote of approval means squat to me.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 18:36:49 GMT
In view of the heated nature of the debate over Calpernia I will simply point out that regardless of how any of us view her, what you need to consider is how the writers portray her and they clearly want you to see her in a sympathetic light. This is reinforced by her entry in WoT2 and the fact that they leave her fate open to question, suggests that they might be considering bringing her back.
Also, it is noticeable on the CoJ path that if you let her go her own way after confronting her with the evidence about Corypheus, Dorian approves of your action and says that "Tevinter could do with more people like her". So the Tevinter good guy who has had us going round killing off former colleagues who joined the Venatori, thinks that Calpernia is okay once her eyes have been opened.
So whilst you may think she is a black hearted fiend, clearly the writers do not. Then to the writers I say: Also not a fan of Dorian so his vote of approval means squat to me. What's your problem with Dorian?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 18:38:58 GMT
Then to the writers I say: Also not a fan of Dorian so his vote of approval means squat to me. What's your problem with Dorian? Well, first and foremost the fact he supports slavery. Other than there are just some personality traits of his that irk me. I don't hate him or anything, just don't like him either. I'm indifferent towards him.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 18:52:36 GMT
What's your problem with Dorian? Well, first and foremost the fact he supports slavery. Other than there are just some personality traits of his that irk me. I don't hate him or anything, just don't like him either. I'm indifferent towards him. He always lived in a slave holder society. The slaves to him, just as the furnitures, always were everywhere around him, the slavery to him, is natural, as breath. I don't think, he ever thought on this problem. If he later, in a conflict insists on this opinion, and can't see the right viewpoint about it, then he's wrong, I'm not against to kill him in a conflict, for his insist to an evil system. But yet? I don't see him as evil. Just as an Andrastian Templar for example, or Cassandra, Cullen. They need some time to change their mind. Every people need that. What traits? (He's not my favorite character, but I think, he's nice.)
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 10, 2017 18:53:09 GMT
What's your problem with Dorian? Well, first and foremost the fact he supports slavery. Other than there are just some personality traits of his that irk me. I don't hate him or anything, just don't like him either. I'm indifferent towards him. No, he doesn't support slavery. He's on defensive when he's asked about that, but only in a sense that 'yeah, it's bad now that I think about it, but the South should get off its high horse, considering how it treats its lower classes'.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 19:06:45 GMT
Well, first and foremost the fact he supports slavery. Other than there are just some personality traits of his that irk me. I don't hate him or anything, just don't like him either. I'm indifferent towards him. He always lived in a slave holder society. The slaves to him, just as the furnitures, always were everywhere around him, the slavery to him, is natural, as breath. I don't think, he ever thought on this problem. If he later, in a conflict insists on this opinion, and can't see the right viewpoint about it, then he's wrong, I'm not against to kill him in a conflict, for his insist to an evil system. But yet? I don't see him as evil. Just as an Andrastian Templar for example, or Cassandra, Cullen. They need some time to change their mind. Every people need that. What traits? (He's not my favorite character, but I think, he's nice.) I never said I saw him as evil, just that I don't like him. Just like how you dislike those people you mentioned until they change their perspective, I'm allowed to dislike Dorian until he disavows slavery as the atrocity that it is. Like his personality traits, for example him being egotistical. So the only way to free the slaves is to side with a war criminal who is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands if not more of innocent lives for the purpose of world domination and reward those actions by making her in charge of one of the most powerful nations in the world? Great. They are not real slaves dude. And?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 19:12:32 GMT
He always lived in a slave holder society. The slaves to him, just as the furnitures, always were everywhere around him, the slavery to him, is natural, as breath. I don't think, he ever thought on this problem. If he later, in a conflict insists on this opinion, and can't see the right viewpoint about it, then he's wrong, I'm not against to kill him in a conflict, for his insist to an evil system. But yet? I don't see him as evil. Just as an Andrastian Templar for example, or Cassandra, Cullen. They need some time to change their mind. Every people need that.
What traits? (He's not my favorite character, but I think, he's nice.) I never said I saw him as evil, just that I don't like him. Just like how you dislike those people you mentioned until they change their perspective, I'm allowed to dislike Dorian until he disavows slavery as the atrocity that it is. Like his personality traits, for example him being egotistical. They are not real slaves dude. And? I didn't dislike Cassandra, not even Cullen. And I love Fenris (as I remember, you dislike him too – ofc, he also not perfect.) Egoistic?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 19:16:07 GMT
I never said I saw him as evil, just that I don't like him. Just like how you dislike those people you mentioned until they change their perspective, I'm allowed to dislike Dorian until he disavows slavery as the atrocity that it is. Like his personality traits, for example him being egotistical.
And?
I didn't dislike Cassandra, not even Cullen. And I love Fenris (as I remember, you dislike him too – ofc, he also not perfect.) Egoistic? Egotistical: excessively conceited or absorbed in oneself; self-centered.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 19:19:06 GMT
I didn't dislike Cassandra, not even Cullen. And I love Fenris (as I remember, you dislike him too – ofc, he also not perfect.) Egoistic? Egotistical: excessively conceited or absorbed in oneself; self-centered. You played same game as me?
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Post by phoray on Sept 10, 2017 19:20:02 GMT
1. May be the reason the Pavus's didn't have more than one child is that they couldn't. These old Altus bloodlines are likely very in-bred and that may have manifested itself as poor fertility. You could equally ask why Alexius and his wife (who were a love match) had only one child, or Maevaris' parents. Clearly there must be something lying behind the having only one heir. 2. As for Dorian's ambitions, in WoT2 Alexius writes to his father after rescuing him from the elven slum brothel. "He is rather despondent over the life's path you've charted for him.....and thus I think a part of him sabotages all efforts to keep him on the straight and narrow." Clearly the problems were there long before his father thought of using blood magic on him. 3. So, unless the ban against Magisters becoming Archon is reversed in fact neither Dorian, or Maevaris can become Archon because they are already Magisters. 1. I think it's more like....how everyone hardly has parents or they're dead and all. Because NPC family members that are living have to have an in game explanation. I remember their being a thread on this a while back. Like how it's narratively inconveneient to have extended living family s it's far more convenient for them not to exist or for them to be dead. 2. I feel like this backs up my sentiment, and even if that wasn't your intention- thanks anyway ^^ 3. Oh ya, good point. It actually makes me glad though. I want to meet unique characters that have been unknown to me prior to the game to be my options for voting for next Archon Bonus thought: What if we somehow finangled the next choice of Arishok? It's a fanciful thought, but it makes me wonder how it could happy. Qun politicians seem pre determined.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 19:20:08 GMT
Egotistical: excessively conceited or absorbed in oneself; self-centered. You played same game as me? Yes.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 10, 2017 19:20:40 GMT
He always lived in a slave holder society. The slaves to him, just as the furnitures, always were everywhere around him, the slavery to him, is natural, as breath. I don't think, he ever thought on this problem. If he later, in a conflict insists on this opinion, and can't see the right viewpoint about it, then he's wrong, I'm not against to kill him in a conflict, for his insist to an evil system. But yet? I don't see him as evil. Just as an Andrastian Templar for example, or Cassandra, Cullen. They need some time to change their mind. Every people need that. What traits? (He's not my favorite character, but I think, he's nice.) I never said I saw him as evil, just that I don't like him. Just like how you dislike those people you mentioned until they change their perspective, I'm allowed to dislike Dorian until he disavows slavery as the atrocity that it is. Like his personality traits, for example him being egotistical. ...You realize his 'egotism' is his shield? It's not a personality trait as much as defense mechanism. Once you actually scratch the surface you can see that Dorian is many things, but egotistic is not really on the list.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2017 19:23:02 GMT
You played same game as me? Yes. Well, then your Dorian wasn't same as mine. Which one was the imposter?
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Post by phoray on Sept 10, 2017 19:24:53 GMT
What's your problem with Dorian? Well, first and foremost the fact he supports slavery. Other than there are just some personality traits of his that irk me. I don't hate him or anything, just don't like him either. I'm indifferent towards him. Yes, this is what made me refuse to date him with anyone other than another human noble. Someone who may also be slightly dismissive of the underclass. For him to say that to a potially romanced Dwarf (carta) Qunari (merc) or Dalish elf was too much. But he does have a passion to him, that I find appealing.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 10, 2017 19:27:01 GMT
Bonus thought: What if we somehow finangled the next choice of Arishok? It's a fanciful thought, but it makes me wonder how it could happy. Qun politicians seem pre determined. I wouldn't count on that. The Qun is a different beast alltogether and I don't think we'd be dismantling it from inside. Besides, the current Arishok is Sten. I kinda wonder how much of him is going to be there, given that there's enough material to focus on for DA4 and beyond, but something tells me that he wouldn't just be there to be replaced. I'm curious to see what they have in store for him, given that we didn't really change his worldview in DAO, but manage to befriend him and expose him to life different than the Qun.
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Post by phoray on Sept 10, 2017 19:30:26 GMT
Egotistical: excessively conceited or absorbed in oneself; self-centered. I found his "Haha, grand fun times, kill these "bad: people for me!" kinda of mindset to be a little...hysterically cold? I would have liked to determine their badness for myself before setting forth to kill them, but unfortunately, killing fetch quest is fetchy. Still, I found an emotionally raw passion in him. A true affection for a female inquisitor. And I hope to seem him come more strongly against slaves in the future...for example, I believe his father "owned slaves" but what has he done with him now that he's taken on his father's responsibilities? we may see in DA4 that he has freed them all and give them a living wage to those that stayed.
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Post by phoray on Sept 10, 2017 19:32:21 GMT
Bonus thought: What if we somehow finangled the next choice of Arishok? It's a fanciful thought, but it makes me wonder how it could happy. Qun politicians seem pre determined. I wouldn't count on that. The Qun is a different beast alltogether and I don't think we'd be dismantling it from inside. Besides, the current Arishok is Sten. I kinda wonder how much of him is going to be there, given that there's enough material to focus on for DA4 and beyond, but something tells me that he wouldn't just be there to be replaced. I'm curious to see what they have in store for him, given that we didn't really change his worldview in DAO, but manage to befriend him and expose him to life different than the Qun. I dunno. In the comics, he seemed to have been fully reasorbed back into their ways. He may be...open to some interpretation of Qun law, but... I don't hold out much hope for that Handsome clever Qunari showing his greatness once more.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 10, 2017 19:42:04 GMT
I wouldn't count on that. The Qun is a different beast alltogether and I don't think we'd be dismantling it from inside. Besides, the current Arishok is Sten. I kinda wonder how much of him is going to be there, given that there's enough material to focus on for DA4 and beyond, but something tells me that he wouldn't just be there to be replaced. I'm curious to see what they have in store for him, given that we didn't really change his worldview in DAO, but manage to befriend him and expose him to life different than the Qun. I dunno. In the comics, he seemed to have been fully reasorbed back into their ways. He may be...open to some interpretation of Qun law, but... I don't hold out much hope for that Handsome clever Qunari showing his greatness once more. I don't really think he ever strayed from their ways. Even being best friends with HoF and all, he still casually states that "oh yeah. We're going to invade you eventually". Still, there's currently no way of saying how all that experience will affect - or not affect - Sten in the long run. Even more so that we don't know how much he knows as the Arishok. Viddassala didn't work in the vacuum - it was an organized Qunari effort to try and realize the Dragon's Breath operation. This also makes me wonder how many other elvhen secrets the Qun managed to uncover and how it potentially ties to Solas/ancient elves plotline.
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