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Post by eskiya on Sept 21, 2017 17:58:41 GMT
They do drop a lot of hints in Inquisition; Corypheus refers to a qunari inquisitor as "a beast of strange blood" and says that a qunari's blood is "engorged with decay", and calls their whole race a mistake; old god Keiran mentions that a qunari's blood "doesn't belong to them", Iron Bull speculates about their connection to dragons and develop reaver powers without drinking dragon blood. DA2 had a comparable amount of build up for the revelations about dwarves that came out in The Descent, so I don't imagine that this will go without payoff in DA4. I honestly think they are an off-shoot of dragons. Cole, during banter, also tells Bull that his horns are 'Dragon Horns.'
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 21, 2017 18:27:30 GMT
I'm sorry but if it isn't red then it is just a deformity not specifically related to red lyrium. Legacy occurs as part of DA2 when red lyrium had already been introduced to us. Therefore if the writers wanted to show his deformity as red lyrium there was no reason why they would not have done so. From what Bianca says, Corypheus only found out about red lyrium from her when he was in the guise of whichever Grey Warden he possessed after Hawke "killed" him. So back in Legacy he was just a regular Intelligent Darkspawn.
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Post by Lazarillo on Sept 21, 2017 18:34:39 GMT
I honestly think they are an off-shoot of dragons. Cole, during banter, also tells Bull that his horns are 'Dragon Horns.' Yeah, there's really not a whole lot of mystery of what's up with the Qunari in that sense. There's a little bit of a mystery as to who did it and why, but we've already got a pretty reasonable explanation for that, too. Of course, it'll probably be the case, despite any reasonable explanations we already have, that ancient elves did it, since that seems to be the trend.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 18:35:51 GMT
I'm sorry but if it isn't red then it is just a deformity not specifically related to red lyrium. Legacy occurs as part of DA2 when red lyrium had already been introduced to us. Therefore if the writers wanted to show his deformity as red lyrium there was no reason why they would not have done so. From what Bianca says, Corypheus only found out about red lyrium from her when he was in the guise of whichever Grey Warden he possessed after Hawke "killed" him. So back in Legacy he was just a regular Intelligent Darkspawn. Here's the problem - the 'deformities' that don't glow red in Legacy do glow red in DAI. They're identical in size and shape - those are the same deformities. And we don't know of any process that turns anything into lyrium. Ergo - it IS lyrium. Also - it is established in the story that Corypheus came in contact with red lyrium later, after he's escaped from his prison in form of Larius or Janeka. Corypheus ISN'T the source of red lyrium - he finds it after Bianca shows him the source, experiments with it and then uses it as a weapon.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 18:45:51 GMT
See, the problem I see with that is that Corypheus is a blighted creature, himself. Red lyrium is lyrium infected with the blight, so I don't know how you can have lyrium implanted in a blighted creature for 1400 years and it only becomes blighted after encountering more blighted lyrium.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 18:52:11 GMT
See, the problem I see with that is that Corypheus is a blighted creature, himself. Red lyrium is lyrium infected with the blight, so I don't know how you can have lyrium implanted in a blighted creature for 1400 years and it only becomes blighted after encountering more blighted lyrium. But that's true for regular blighted creatures that are residing in Deep Roads too. If lyrium 'infection' was so easy, we'd see blighted lyrium way earlier, considering that many lyrium deposits and mines are exactly where darkspawn spend most of their time. Yet, red lyrium was found only after discovery of Primeval Thaig. So, obviously, there's more to the process of infecting lyrium with Blight than we know and it only becomes apparent to Corypheus after he gains access to original source.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 19:25:20 GMT
Wait a minute.
Corypheus's body isn't his original body. His original body was stabbed and or roasted by Hawke in Legacy. He's at least on his third body by the time we first see him in Inquisition; first being murdered by Hawke, second being blown up at the Conclave when he unlocked the orb. He gets blasted again by the sentinels and we see how he physically transforms a Warden's body into a new one in his own image.
I think it's safe to say that it isn't lyrium, red or otherwise. That's just part of his appearance that he psycho-manifests whenever he transforms a new host to assume his appearance, presumably using the blight to manifest the new mass to accommodate for him being nine feet tall using whatever process that the taint used to manifest those patches of disgusting, fleshy growth that showed up in Origins.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
Wait a minute. Corypheus's body isn't his original body. His original body was stabbed and or roasted by Hawke in Legacy. He's at least on his third body by the time we first see him in Inquisition; first being murdered by Hawke, second being blown up at the Conclave when he unlocked the orb. He gets blasted again by the sentinels and we see how he physically transforms a Warden's body into a new one in his own image. I think it's safe to say that it isn't lyrium, red or otherwise. That's just part of his appearance that he psycho-manifests whenever he transforms a new host to assume his appearance, presumably using the blight to manifest the new mass to accommodate for him being nine feet tall using whatever process that the taint used to manifest those patches of disgusting, fleshy growth that showed up in Origins. He is alluded to have been killed before Wardens finally locked him in the prison and his deformities didn't turn red. Calpernia's short story, that naturally happens some time after Legacy, also doesn't mention any redness. It's only red in Inquisition, after he gets in contact with red lyrium, that some parts of him start glowing red.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 20:56:31 GMT
And we can ponder about what that means but really we have two options here; one, he's got a shape-shifting morphic-resonance thing going on where whenever he transfers bodies he physically shapes the matter of that new body to appear like his original one, or otherwise each time he transfers bodies he spontaneously manifests titan blood, that despite the fact that his whole body is literally shaped by the taint, only becomes blighted once he encounters an independent source of pre-tainted titan blood.
I mean, obviously the laws of physics have left this party a long time ago but personally for my two cents it's less suspension-of-disbelief breaking for me to think that he just, likely unconsciously, shapes the matter of his body to take on this appearance without that matter actually being lyrium than it does for me to believe that not only can he apparently manifest lyrium out of thin air via the blight whenever he dies and takes on a new host, but that despite the fact that this whole process is enabled through the invisible energy field of the blight itself, that the lyrium he conjures out of nothingness remains untainted until it came in contact with an outside source of red lyrium.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 21:04:30 GMT
Well, now that I think about it there is a third option; that Bioware just didn't think out his design very well.
I mean, he is walking around in high heels.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 21:07:25 GMT
And we can ponder about what that means but really we have two options here; one, he's got a shape-shifting morphic-resonance thing going on where whenever he transfers bodies he physically shapes the matter of that new body to appear like his original one, or otherwise each time he transfers bodies he spontaneously manifests titan blood, that despite the fact that his whole body is literally shaped by the taint, only becomes blighted once he encounters an independent source of pre-tainted titan blood. I mean, obviously the laws of physics have left this party a long time ago but personally for my two cents it's less suspension-of-disbelief breaking for me to think that he just, likely unconsciously, shapes the matter of his body to take on this appearance without that matter actually being lyrium than it does for me to believe that not only can he apparently manifest lyrium out of thin air via the blight whenever he dies and takes on a new host, but that despite the fact that this whole process is enabled through the invisible energy field of the blight itself, that the lyrium he conjures out of nothingness remains untainted until it came in contact with an outside source of red lyrium. We don't know the processes that govern him taking bodies, same way we don't know how shapeshifters like Flemeth can instantly gain mass when she turns into a dragon. What we know, from available clues, is that parts of him turned red after he got in contact with red lyrium and no earlier.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 21:08:55 GMT
Well, now that I think about it there is a third option; that Bioware just didn't think out his design very well. I mean, he is walking around in high heels. ... Which is a deliberate easter egg, only noticeable if someone who forces camera out of its default position. Also - the guy has chains and pieces of... stuff in his body, with his chest looking like demonic boat is about to sprout right out of it. So how come walking on heels is suddenly so egregious?
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 21:21:30 GMT
And we can ponder about what that means but really we have two options here; one, he's got a shape-shifting morphic-resonance thing going on where whenever he transfers bodies he physically shapes the matter of that new body to appear like his original one, or otherwise each time he transfers bodies he spontaneously manifests titan blood, that despite the fact that his whole body is literally shaped by the taint, only becomes blighted once he encounters an independent source of pre-tainted titan blood. I mean, obviously the laws of physics have left this party a long time ago but personally for my two cents it's less suspension-of-disbelief breaking for me to think that he just, likely unconsciously, shapes the matter of his body to take on this appearance without that matter actually being lyrium than it does for me to believe that not only can he apparently manifest lyrium out of thin air via the blight whenever he dies and takes on a new host, but that despite the fact that this whole process is enabled through the invisible energy field of the blight itself, that the lyrium he conjures out of nothingness remains untainted until it came in contact with an outside source of red lyrium. We don't know the processes that govern him taking bodies, same way we don't know how shapeshifters like Flemeth can instantly gain mass when she turns into a dragon. What we know, from available clues, is that parts of him turned red after he got in contact with red lyrium and no earlier. You're right, and I can't explain that. But, while ultimately the magic in Dragon Age works however Bioware says it works, I do find the idea that he can conjure or transmute titan blood into himself whenever he takes over a new body - which is explicitly blight-related magic - without that titan blood being blighted itself to be straining. If you want to tell me that lyrium requires more than being embedded in the flesh of a tainted creature for over a thousand years to itself contract the taint, okay, that seems a little unnecessary but I'll accept it. If you tell me it needs more than apparently being spawned into existence by the blight as it manifests this new mass of tainted flesh for said blighted creature, then I have to ask, "what more could you possibly need?!" Bioware gets to make the rules here, obviously, but those rules are just plain stupid. You're asking me to accept a lot to explain why the rock formations in this guy's face changed colors between games.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 21:50:23 GMT
We don't know the processes that govern him taking bodies, same way we don't know how shapeshifters like Flemeth can instantly gain mass when she turns into a dragon. What we know, from available clues, is that parts of him turned red after he got in contact with red lyrium and no earlier. You're right, and I can't explain that. But, while ultimately the magic in Dragon Age works however Bioware says it works, I do find the idea that he can conjure or transmute titan blood into himself whenever he takes over a new body - which is explicitly blight-related magic - without that titan blood being blighted itself to be straining. If you want to tell me that lyrium requires more than being embedded in the flesh of a tainted creature for over a thousand years to itself contract the taint, okay, that seems a little unnecessary but I'll accept it. If you tell me it needs more than apparently being spawned into existence by the blight as it manifests this new mass of tainted flesh for said blighted creature, then I have to ask, "what more could you possibly need?!" Bioware gets to make the rules here, obviously, but those rules are just plain stupid. You're asking me to accept a lot to explain why the rock formations in this guy's face changed colors between games. I really am not. Blight has been around for almost a millenium. And so far we only find red lyrium in a primeval Thaig that was otherwise untouched by darkspawn. Obviously however the Blight has tainted the lyrium, the process is different than just regular Blight. Also - do we even know what is a relation of 'Titan blood' to, say, regular blood? I'd like to point out that both of them have magical properties and we have no idea how related both are. The fact that Corpheus is able to conjure lyrium "out of thin air" may not be related to Blight at all, but to relation of living beings to Titans. After all, it can't be a coincidence that once a person is close to red lyrium for too long, it starts growing out of their bodies.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 22:06:27 GMT
I would really appreciate it if we could get a straight, detailed explanation for why the one place where Red Lyrium showed up is a taig that predates the Blights and the darkspawn actively avoid. Given that we're unlikely to visit that taig again for the forseeable future I'm worried that Bioware may just decided to sweep that under the rug and never get around to explaining how that works.
Hell, I was annoyed that the big takeway in Inquisition from Red Lyrium being blighted - I had figured that part out already when they mentioned the damn stuff singing - was that Lyrium is organic rather than mineral, instead of, you know, the part about it apparently predating the Magisters breaching the black city. That is a *much* bigger deal than lyrium being the blood of magical rock giants.
Anyway, I highly doubt that Corypheus is ever coming back - putting his unpopularity aside, if what we did to him in Inquisition didn't kill him, I'd be more disappointed in Bioware's writing staff than I already am. And given that he's likely not coming back, I doubt we're going to get an explicit explanation for what the rocky, color changing growths in his face were. And since we're not going to get that explanation and that explanation isn't going to be relevant to the future of the plot, I am going to go on choosing to believe that it wasn't lyrium, because that explanation makes more sense to me.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 22:38:59 GMT
I would really appreciate it if we could get a straight, detailed explanation for why the one place where Red Lyrium showed up is a taig that predates the Blights and the darkspawn actively avoid. Given that we're unlikely to visit that taig again for the forseeable future I'm worried that Bioware may just decided to sweep that under the rug and never get around to explaining how that works. I'm fairly sure people want straight, detailed information for many things, but we're not going to get them until time is right. All of this seems to be building towards larger reveals later, though I don't see how re-visiting the thaig is the only way to get those answers? We didn't have to revisit the ruin where Tamlen fell through the mirror in DAO to later learn that what Duncan described as communication devices are in fact part of transportation network, for example. And we knwo of multiple different underground locations that, for one reason or another, are not visited by darkspawn. Well no, I wouldn't say that lyrium being blood of magical giants is less of a deal than Blighted lyrium predates Magisters breaching the Black city - especially that Dwarves have been questioning that timeline since game 1. We're slowly putting things together though and are yet to see the full picture. Right... only Corypheus ain't the only Magister who barged into the Black City. We've met another one nearly a decade earlier and there's no way of telling what others are doing, if they're not slumbering or dead somehow. Then there's the fact that Cory and his army may have been decimated, but Venatori as a group are still established to exist, so we don't really need access to Cory himself.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 22:46:52 GMT
I didn't say none of the other Magisters will show up. I fully expect the Architect to return. I just don't imagine that the pieces of not-lyrium in Corypheus' face are going to be integral to the future of the plot.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 21, 2017 22:56:31 GMT
I didn't say none of the other Magisters will show up. I fully expect the Architect to return. I just don't imagine that the pieces of not-lyrium in Corypheus' face are going to be integral to the future of the plot. I don't think they were discussed as something that is potentially pivotal to the plot? Even if some other things surrounding Cory are.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 22:59:35 GMT
And my point is that so long as they aren't an integral plot point that's going to be mentioned again, I get to go on believing that they aren't lyrium and not have my enjoyment of the series damaged any further than the various stupid plot points that Inquisition has raised have already damaged it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 22, 2017 11:26:30 GMT
I would only add to the debate here that presumably there is some link between Corypheus turning red in appearance since DA2 and the fact that the orb changes colour according to who is in control of it. When Corypheus controls the power it glows red, when the Inquisitor controls the power it glows green. I assume there has to be some sort of significance to that somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 12:01:31 GMT
I didn't say none of the other Magisters will show up. I fully expect the Architect to return. I just don't imagine that the pieces of not-lyrium in Corypheus' face are going to be integral to the future of the plot. That would be great, the Archotrct's return.
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Post by wickedcool on Sept 22, 2017 15:35:53 GMT
so Cory grafts it to his form as it gives him more power? When he sees Bianca he chapechanges to trick her or is that another mage(wiki)?
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Post by FireAndBlood on Sept 22, 2017 16:05:00 GMT
I would only add to the debate here that presumably there is some link between Corypheus turning red in appearance since DA2 and the fact that the orb changes colour according to who is in control of it. When Corypheus controls the power it glows red, when the Inquisitor controls the power it glows green. I assume there has to be some sort of significance to that somewhere. I imagine the orb glows green because Quizzy has the Anchor.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 22, 2017 17:05:15 GMT
Well, now that I think about it there is a third option; that Bioware just didn't think out his design very well. I mean, he is walking around in high heels. He thought it'll make him fabulous!
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Post by smilesja on Sept 22, 2017 17:05:54 GMT
I didn't say none of the other Magisters will show up. I fully expect the Architect to return. I just don't imagine that the pieces of not-lyrium in Corypheus' face are going to be integral to the future of the plot. I'd imagine one of the magister will show up.
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