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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 6, 2018 15:53:11 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if these were connected at all. Especially since Danarius chose the name "Fenris"... we know that it means little wolf in Tevene, we know that Fen = wolf in Elvhen, they also seem to have borrowed the fenhedis/venhedis swear word. I'm sure giving his vallaslin-covered warrior elf an ancient elven name was deliberate on Danarius's part. It'd be interesting to stumble on some of his research, see where exactly he got the idea. He either learned of the concept and tried to work backwards, filling in with his own knowledge, or perhaps there are explicit instructions about the process that survived over the years. If we go to Tevinter in DA4 I want to explore Danarius' house. Would be a great way to both learn about Fenris, magic, and possibly the ancient Elves.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 6, 2018 15:55:12 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if these were connected at all. Especially since Danarius chose the name "Fenris"... we know that it means little wolf in Tevene, we know that Fen = wolf in Elvhen, they also seem to have borrowed the fenhedis/venhedis swear word. I'm sure giving his vallaslin-covered warrior elf an ancient elven name was deliberate on Danarius's part. It'd be interesting to stumble on some of his research, see where exactly he got the idea. He either learned of the concept and tried to work backwards, filling in with his own knowledge, or perhaps there are explicit instructions about the process that survived over the years. If we go to Tevinter in DA4 I want to explore Danarius' house. Would be a great way to both learn about Fenris, magic, and possibly the ancient Elves. Yes! I really hope he has living relatives. It would be cool to meet the Nathaniel Howe of Danarius's family.
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 15:58:04 GMT
At least from the waist up. you dirty gal you.
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 16:01:20 GMT
If we go to Tevinter in DA4 I want to explore Danarius' house. Would be a great way to both learn about Fenris, magic, and possibly the ancient Elves. It never came up that Danarius was married or had children of his own. Maybe a brother/sister, uncle/aunt, or close cousin Yes! I really hope he has living relatives. It would be cool to meet the Nathaniel Howe of Danarius's family. See above, unlikely to be a son? but also, still a really awesome idea. And maybe he'd be a friend of Dorian's or actually not like Slavery much.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 6, 2018 16:06:47 GMT
If we go to Tevinter in DA4 I want to explore Danarius' house. Would be a great way to both learn about Fenris, magic, and possibly the ancient Elves. It never came up that Danarius was married or had children of his own. Maybe a brother/sister, uncle/aunt, or close cousin Yes! I really hope he has living relatives. It would be cool to meet the Nathaniel Howe of Danarius's family. See above, unlikely to be a son? but also, still a really awesome idea. And maybe he'd be a friend of Dorian's or actually not like Slavery much. Danarius struck me as more of a confirmed bachelor so my first thought was a nephew or niece or something. But it's Tevinter and the nobility is expected to marry, so it wouldn't surprise me too much if he has a kid somewhere. If they even survived to adulthood, that is. Tevinter seems like a pretty brutal place... (or maybe we could meet his wife?? Oooh) It'd be cool if the relative was like BGII's Yoshimo. Seems nice, member of the Lucerni, you're thinking "Nate 2.0!", and then he turns around and betrays you. Gotta live up to that family name. :poop:
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 16:11:09 GMT
(or maybe we could meet his wife?? Oooh) Married with no children is a possibility. It just seems weird that such a long list of people wouldn't mention her. Fenris, Varania, Danarius, Hadriana. Is she really such a non entity? And Danarius, to me, comes off as either Fetishing elves (specifically Fenris) or homeoexual himself. Unlike Dorian, he either married for expediency and ties or didn't need to marry because his research was his passion. He got off on showin that research off too (Fenris' markings)
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 6, 2018 16:11:30 GMT
It never came up that Danarius was married or had children of his own. Maybe a brother/sister, uncle/aunt, or close cousin See above, unlikely to be a son? but also, still a really awesome idea. And maybe he'd be a friend of Dorian's or actually not like Slavery much. Danarius struck me as more of a confirmed bachelor so my first thought was a nephew or niece or something. But it's Tevinter and the nobility is expected to marry, so it wouldn't surprise me too much if he has a kid somewhere. If they even survived to adulthood, that is. Tevinter seems like a pretty brutal place... (or maybe we could meet his wife?? Oooh) It'd be cool if the relative was like BGII's Yoshimo. Seems nice, member of the Lucerni, you're thinking "Nate 2.0!", and then he turns around and betrays you. Gotta live up to that family name. Fenris never mentioned Danarius having a wife, so if he did she was neither cruel nor kind but just... there. No, I think he may possibly have been a widower but I doubt he had a wife during the time Fenris was there. If he had children they must have been adult and possibly estranged from their father.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 6, 2018 16:22:04 GMT
Well, what I meant by confirmed bachelor is that I suspect he was gay, but that's just a hunch. We have no way of knowing unless they spell it out in future games.
In any case, if he does or did have a wife, I don't think it's too weird that no one would have mentioned her. We meet lots of villains and their spouses never really come up in conversation. It could be that she's dead, or Fenris never saw her or saw her so infrequently that she was a non-entity to him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 16:25:22 GMT
I'm pretty sure the second pic is from the character model somehow, you can see that most of the patterns match the ones in the concept art. His markings kinda remind me of June's vallaslin. Spoilered for size. June was the god of craft and the wiki suggests that older depications of June do not depict the god with the tools the Dalish associate him with. Maybe his craft was with lyrium or using elves and other time it changed to a depication of making tools? Yeah, I have been on board with the idea that June discovered how to work with lyrium for things like eluvians and the vallaslin, and thus creating such a massive demand for it the Titans had to find ways to fight back. June is pictured with an anvil. What's one of the most significant artifacts in Dragon Age? The Anvil of the Void. What does it do? Work lyrium and spirits together. June Anvil of the Void More fun stuff to chew on while we wait.
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 16:32:22 GMT
We do meet lots of villains, but we also don't usually have their man servant body guard as an LI Companion option for an in game decade. AND extensive conversation with another two servants of the villain- although they were talking to Fenris about Fenris related things. The wife just literally never came up. For her to show up later would imply she practically lived seperately from Danarius entirely. But maybe if the writers really wanted their to be a wife to receive Danrius's belongings so that we the new protaganist can go through his shit and feel connected to Fenris two games later (even though we totally don't get to see Fenris in the new engine ) then they can go for the whole estranged or "so rich we live in seperate houses" thing and do it.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 6, 2018 16:46:30 GMT
June was the god of craft and the wiki suggests that older depications of June do not depict the god with the tools the Dalish associate him with. Maybe his craft was with lyrium or using elves and other time it changed to a depication of making tools? Yeah, I have been on board with the idea that June discovered how to work with lyrium for things like eluvians and the vallaslin, and thus creating such a massive demand for it the Titans had to find ways to fight back. June is pictured with an anvil. What's one of the most significant artifacts in Dragon Age? The Anvil of the Void. What does it do? Work lyrium and spirits together. June Anvil of the Void More fun stuff to chew on while we wait. We know that the evanuris started off as generals, I'm wondering if it was with the war with the Titans, which could then make June their weopen maker, but it would also explain why all the Gods have a vallaslin, as they would have all been allies at that time and would have shared their creations with each other. They then started to break apart, and make their own alliances which then led to Mythal's death. I'd be really interested in finding out what Mythal did that turned all the other God's against her, as while some do have alliances forming ( I think we def have Andruil, Sylaise, June and Ghilan'nain connected to each other. Falon'Din and Dirthamen seemed linked beyond any normal connection), they don't seem to have any reason to each alliance to join together and go against Mythal. But I still feel we know so little about Mythal and her true motives, i don't think she's as good as Solas would make her seem. He seems very tied to her as well.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2018 17:38:51 GMT
Yeah, I have been on board with the idea that June discovered how to work with lyrium for things like eluvians and the vallaslin, and thus creating such a massive demand for it the Titans had to find ways to fight back. June is pictured with an anvil. What's one of the most significant artifacts in Dragon Age? The Anvil of the Void. What does it do? Work lyrium and spirits together. June Anvil of the Void More fun stuff to chew on while we wait. We know that the evanuris started off as generals, I'm wondering if it was with the war with the Titans, which could then make June their weopen maker, but it would also explain why all the Gods have a vallaslin, as they would have all been allies at that time and would have shared their creations with each other. They then started to break apart, and make their own alliances which then led to Mythal's death. I'd be really interested in finding out what Mythal did that turned all the other God's against her, as while some do have alliances forming ( I think we def have Andruil, Sylaise, June and Ghilan'nain connected to each other. Falon'Din and Dirthamen seemed linked beyond any normal connection), they don't seem to have any reason to each alliance to join together and go against Mythal. If Inquisitor drinks from Well Of Sorrows, in Trespasser we find out that Mythal knew secret passphrase only closest allies of Fen'Harel knew. It pacifies spirits protecting Dread Wolf's sanctuary to which slaves fled to. So it's possible that one of reasons she was killed was because she secretly supported Fen'Harel's rebellion. Still, according to Solas, the main reason she was murdered was because of other Evanuris' lust for power. The implication is that she either had power or access to something that Evanuris thought would give them an edge. Flemythal is also pretty adamant that she was betrayed - but that not only she was betrayed, but the world itself was betrayed. I have no idea what she means, especially that in DAO she admits to have... complicated relationship with the world. One of the devs already mentioned that Solas has complex feelings about Mythal. We still don't know why. So far I think it wouldn't be far-fetched to assume that his relationship with Mythal might be similar to Leliana's relationship with Justinia.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 17:41:28 GMT
Yeah, I have been on board with the idea that June discovered how to work with lyrium for things like eluvians and the vallaslin, and thus creating such a massive demand for it the Titans had to find ways to fight back. June is pictured with an anvil. What's one of the most significant artifacts in Dragon Age? The Anvil of the Void. What does it do? Work lyrium and spirits together. June Anvil of the Void More fun stuff to chew on while we wait. We know that the evanuris started off as generals, I'm wondering if it was with the war with the Titans, which could then make June their weopen maker, but it would also explain why all the Gods have a vallaslin, as they would have all been allies at that time and would have shared their creations with each other. They then started to break apart, and make their own alliances which then led to Mythal's death. I'd be really interested in finding out what Mythal did that turned all the other God's against her, as while some do have alliances forming ( I think we def have Andruil, Sylaise, June and Ghilan'nain connected to each other. Falon'Din and Dirthamen seemed linked beyond any normal connection), they don't seem to have any reason to each alliance to join together and go against Mythal. But I still feel we know so little about Mythal and her true motives, i don't think she's as good as Solas would make her seem. He seems very tied to her as well. I think the reason Mythal got shanked is pretty simple, and also explained in Trespasser. They discovered red lyrium and the taint in one of the lyrium mines, many years after a Titan was murdered: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Veilfire_Runes_in_the_Deep_RoadsIn the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting: "Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!" For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all." Mythal realized it was spreading rapidly and they had to stop using lyruim the way they were, or the taint was going to swallow the world. Anyway, that would be like telling people in our world that they immediately have to stop using oil - definite political suicide. She was a god-queen who had to maintain order, so it seems that her good friend Solas volunteered to fall on the grenade of inciting rebellion against the other Evanuris. He started a propaganda campaign to get their followers to reject them (with Mythal's quiet support, and possibly Dirthamen and Falon'Din since their portraits are also in Solas' temple), earning him the name Fen'Harel. So all that happened, and if the legend holds true Mythal was eventually betrayed by one of her allies (which has been theorized to be Dirthamen since his statue shows up in her scene with Keiran with a giant sword in it's back) and the Evanuris killed her. Since the whole taint thing was still going strong, and apparently at least one of the Evanuris (Andruil) attempted to weaponize red lyrium until Mythal stopped them, the writing was kind of on the wall for Elvhenan. The main thing Solas did was to keep the Evanuris from taking the rest of the world down with them, and possibly sealing a whole lot of tainted material inside the Fade, which Cole says was the right thing to do at the time. Anyway, Mythal is slowly piecing herself back together, and has been working towards two goals - if the Canticle of Exaltations is correct, she will make certain balance in the world is restored, and she will get her revenge on the Evanuris.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 6, 2018 17:43:40 GMT
If Inquisitor drinks from Well Of Sorrows, in Trespasser we find out that Mythal knew secret passphrase only closest allies of Fen'Harel knew. It pacifies spirits protecting Dread Wolf's sanctuary to which slaves fled to. So it's possible that one of reasons she was killed was because she secretly supported Fen'Harel's rebellion. Or maybe the other way around? Perhaps one of Mythal's trusted priests was Fen'Harel's infiltrator?
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 17:44:53 GMT
So far I think it wouldn't be far-fetched to assume that his relationship with Mythal might be similar to Leliana's relationship with Justinia. I was thinking more like Marjolaine...
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 17:48:50 GMT
e, which Cole says was the right thing to do at the time. What does he say? I've said elsewhere that his whimsical nonesense sounding riddles escape my understanding.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 17:51:57 GMT
e, which Cole says was the right thing to do at the time. What does he say? I've said elsewhere that his whimsical nonesense sounding riddles escape my understanding. In one of their conversations Cole reassures Solas about raising the Veil: Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way. Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths. Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them. Solas: I know. Cole: But you could let them go. Solas: I know that as well. Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them. Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about? Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything. Cole: You weren't wrong, though. Solas: Thank you, Cole.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 6, 2018 17:53:01 GMT
We know that the evanuris started off as generals, I'm wondering if it was with the war with the Titans, which could then make June their weopen maker, but it would also explain why all the Gods have a vallaslin, as they would have all been allies at that time and would have shared their creations with each other. They then started to break apart, and make their own alliances which then led to Mythal's death. I'd be really interested in finding out what Mythal did that turned all the other God's against her, as while some do have alliances forming ( I think we def have Andruil, Sylaise, June and Ghilan'nain connected to each other. Falon'Din and Dirthamen seemed linked beyond any normal connection), they don't seem to have any reason to each alliance to join together and go against Mythal. But I still feel we know so little about Mythal and her true motives, i don't think she's as good as Solas would make her seem. He seems very tied to her as well. I think the reason Mythal got shanked is pretty simple, and also explained in Trespasser. They discovered red lyrium and the taint in one of the lyrium mines, many years after a Titan was murdered: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Veilfire_Runes_in_the_Deep_RoadsIn the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting: "Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!" For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all." Mythal realized it was spreading rapidly and they had to stop using lyruim the way they were, or the taint was going to swallow the world. Anyway, that would be like telling people in our world that they immediately have to stop using oil - definite political suicide. She was a god-queen who had to maintain order, so it seems that her good friend Solas volunteered to fall on the grenade of inciting rebellion against the other Evanuris. He started a propaganda campaign to by get their followers to reject them (with Mythal's quiet support, and possibly Dirthamen and Falon'Din since their portraits are also in Solas' temple), earning him the name Fen'Harel. So all that happened, and if the legend holds true Mythal was eventually betrayed by one of her allies (which has been theorized to be Dirthamen since his statue shows up in her scene with Keiran with a giant sword in it's back) and the Evanuris killed her. Since the whole taint thing was still going strong, and apparently at least one of the Evanuris (Andruil) attempted to weaponize red lyrium until Mythal stopped them, the writing was kind of on the wall for Elvhenan. The main thing Solas did was to keep the Evanuris from taking the rest of the world down with them, and possibly sealing a whole lot of tainted material inside the Fade, which Cole says was the right thing to do at the time. See I don't think Solas volunteered, so much as was likely used by Mythal. From how she treats her daughters, I don't think Mythal/Flemeth would be above tricking people to get what she wanted and I do think it would fit into the dynamic of Solas thinking he knows so much more than everyone else and tricking people, that it would be ironic that he's been used himself and likely kept in the dark. And her encouraging the rebellion could be the reason Solas thinks so well of her, but would also explain why her herself has slaves using vallaslin and the Well of Sorrows, as she didn't really care about the politics behind it but was using it as a political move. I've always found it a bit paradoxical that Mythal apparently cares so much about her people but is fine with using those horrid tools. While I do think the blight has something to do with it, I still don't think it was a purely selfless pursuit. She seems to have positioned herself as the true power. And given the way she manipulates from the shadows as Flemeth and seems to have so much patience, I just can't see her as the benevolent god queen. Those seem like skills she had before she got murdered. Well, I'm sure we will see anyway.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2018 17:53:24 GMT
So far I think it wouldn't be far-fetched to assume that his relationship with Mythal might be similar to Leliana's relationship with Justinia. I was thinking more like Marjolaine... Marjolaine was a petty thief. To quote Leliana "All this time, Justinia carried fear that she was using me, just like I'd been used in the past. But Marjolaine's games were trifles. Justinia gambled with the fate of nations. She needed me. No one else could've done what I did. She knows that." Same with Mythal. She was a ruler and known adjudicator between Evanuris. If we're looking for more complicated and less healthy relationships that Mythal/Solas could mirror (not necessarily exactly how it was, but similar enough) we probably should look at Briala and Celene.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2018 17:57:10 GMT
If Inquisitor drinks from Well Of Sorrows, in Trespasser we find out that Mythal knew secret passphrase only closest allies of Fen'Harel knew. It pacifies spirits protecting Dread Wolf's sanctuary to which slaves fled to. So it's possible that one of reasons she was killed was because she secretly supported Fen'Harel's rebellion. Or maybe the other way around? Perhaps one of Mythal's trusted priests was Fen'Harel's infiltrator? If they were, Mythal would know it right away. The Well Of Sorrows is connected to her after all. And we already know that Mythal and Solas consider each other friends.
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2018 18:00:09 GMT
Marjolaine was a petty thief. To quote Leliana "All this time, Justinia carried fear that she was using me, just like I'd been used in the past. But Marjolaine's games were trifles. Justinia gambled with the fate of nations. She needed me. No one else could've done what I did. She knows that." I concede that is actually the better comparison after all but... f we're looking for more complicated and less healthy relationships that Mythal/Solas could mirror (not necessarily exactly how it was, but similar enough) we probably should look at Briala and Celene. yes. I think if their relationship were truly healthy, he wouldn't have murdered Mythall himself. So Briala and Celene is the perfect comparison to me. (whether they had a sexual relationship is up in the air.)
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 6, 2018 18:02:32 GMT
Or maybe the other way around? Perhaps one of Mythal's trusted priests was Fen'Harel's infiltrator? If they were, Mythal would know it right away. The Well Of Sorrows is connected to her after all. And we already know that Mythal and Solas consider each other friends. We know what Solas seems to think of Mythal, I wouldn't say we truly know what Mythal thinks of Solas.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 6, 2018 18:07:24 GMT
If they were, Mythal would know it right away. The Well Of Sorrows is connected to her after all. Right, but before the infiltrator used the Well. Say someone was sent to get close, and was turned or who used the Well and had their treachery exposed that way. The knowledge would still go to the future priests, even if the will behind the knowledge was subsumed by the will of obedient servants.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2018 18:07:56 GMT
If they were, Mythal would know it right away. The Well Of Sorrows is connected to her after all. And we already know that Mythal and Solas consider each other friends. We know what Solas seems to think of Mythal, I wouldn't say we truly know what Mythal thinks of Solas. True. But their short meeting in post-credit scene seemed genuine and heartfelt, regardless of how it ended. It's one of few moments when both characters seem truly vulnerable.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2018 18:19:01 GMT
If they were, Mythal would know it right away. The Well Of Sorrows is connected to her after all. Right, but before the infiltrator used the Well. Say someone was sent to get close, and was turned or who used the Well and had their treachery exposed that way. The knowledge would still go to the future priests, even if the will behind the knowledge was subsumed by the will of obedient servants. Given that we know that Fen'Harel had a long relationship with Mythal and must've known about Well Of Sorrows, why would he send someone who'd be exposed the moment they used the Well? It was a secret greeting used only by those Fen'Harel trusted. He wouldn't be someone who be stupid enough to reveal it to his enemies that way. And given that we already know that Mythal and Solas known each other long before rebellion and their relationship seems to veer towards cordial, there truly is no reason to try and explain Well's knowledge of the passphrase with botched infiltration.
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