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Post by cloud9 on Feb 10, 2018 2:53:35 GMT
I just watched this video that you posted, and what Morrigan actually says, word for word, is: Morrigan: Not all the mirrors lead back to our world. The ancients were nothing if not... resourceful. Inquisitor: If they don't lead back to our world, then...? Morrigan: Places between, like this one. I can describe it no better. She doesn't say she has been to other worlds, just other pocket dimensions/in-between places like the Crossroads are. And she goes on to say that you can't stay in these in-between places forever. Maybe that would be different for elves, since it's been established that they experience the in-between places differently from humans and the other races. But still, there is no basis from that video to assume that there is another place Solas could go with his people (whoever they are) and stay forever. But that means that they are other places other than Thedas or the Fade. Which it clearly describes they are other worlds that hasn't been discovered yet.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 10, 2018 2:54:09 GMT
This sort of reminded me of an old (almost assuredly false) fan theory from way back that most of all the elves in the party throughout the games are, without realizing it, other elven gods.
I forget all the elven god names, but I know it was supposed to be that Fenris was Elgar'nan, and Sera was that hunter god who hated the elves. There was actually some compelling evidence for Sera. I assume Merrill would be the god of secrets.
It was silly, but I actually kind of liked that theory.
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 10, 2018 2:55:52 GMT
It could be even funnier - what if Solas's trap on Evanuris basically means sentencing them to eternity of incarnating into harmless animals? Elgar'nan: (I WAS THE RULER OF THE WORLD AT SOME POINT, GODDAMNIT!) Leliana: Now, now, Schmooples, it's time for your bath! Elgar'nan: *squeaks grumpily* Actual footage of Elgar'nan post-nug transformation: I love that everyone’s picking on Elgar’nan for this. Because if there’s one commonality in all the Dalish legends, ancient elven memories, and images in the Fade, it’s that Elgar’nan is a vain, hot-headed prick.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 2:59:41 GMT
I guess I just want nothing to do with infinite possibilities. I just want to be myself LOL. I guess it depends what do you mean when you say 'being yourself' I've long came to accept that the only constant thing in life is change and humans are no different. So what I am is what I decide at every given moment in life. Hence I'm open to new possibilities. Human life merging with artificial forms? To mangle a quote: I'm already wearing glasses and have basically taped an iPhone to my head. It'd probably just panic and start running around, waving arms and doing a lot of noise. Set my hair on fire for better effect.
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 3:05:13 GMT
Well, you'd probably be better heroes than me, because - from current perspective - I'd probably be the one to take the pragmatic route (I mean, nevermind that IRL it's fairly safe to say that - if things go well - we'll be 'synthesized' with artificial life long before we meet aliens, lol)... I mean, it's not like me deciding what to do with lives in the whole galaxy doesn't mean trumping on everyone else's will anyway, because ultimately I am deciding to leave people how they are and potentially depriving them of infinite possibilities. So I am still a deciding force, even if I choose to decide to keep things relatively how they were. I guess I just want nothing to do with infinite possibilities. I just want to be myself LOL. I'd be a crappy hero, though. If someone said, "destroy the Alpha Relay and condemn 300,000 Batarians or the Reapers are going to wipe out the entire galaxy" I'd just NOPE right out of there and let the galaxy burn. I can't do this 'greater good' stuff. Cabin in the Woods required two remaining people out of 5 sacrifices to kill the other one, literally to save the world. Literally. She said, "If saving the world requires that I kill you, then the world isn't worth saving." And it's not even like they were lovers or good friends. I get that sentiment.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 3:10:08 GMT
Cabin in the Woods required two remaining people out of 5 sacrifices to kill the other one, literally to save the world. Literally. She said, "If saving the world requires that I kill you, then the world isn't worth saving." And it's not even like they were lovers or good friends. I get that sentiment. As much as I'm an empathetic person, I'm not as much of a romantic. I mean, it would depend on getting to know more how the world works (the CitW had its own weird instruction manual), but other than that...
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 3:14:57 GMT
As much as I'm an empathetic person, I'm not as much of a romantic. I mean, it would depend on getting to know more how the world works (the CitW had its own weird instruction manual), but other than that... But that's a sacrifice he made of himself. I would do that as well. I would not sacrifice the consent of billions to supposedly save them all. When all I did was save their physical selves while destroying who they are. o-o If the choice of the chick in Cabin of the Woods had been "Throw yourself in the lava. It'll save the world." She would have. But the rules of that world literally required her to murder the boy next to her. He couldn't even suicide himself. It had to be murder. She said fuck it, possibly literally.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 3:24:03 GMT
As much as I'm an empathetic person, I'm not as much of a romantic. I mean, it would depend on getting to know more how the world works (the CitW had its own weird instruction manual), but other than that... But that's a sacrifice he made of himself. I would do that as well. I would not sacrifice the consent of billions to supposedly save them all. When all I did was save their physical selves while destroying who they are. o-o It's applicable either way - whether you sacrifice yourself or someone, you're sacrificing few for the sake of many. I also don't believe that making someone change destroys who they are (esp. in a situation where people retain memories and continuity of consciousness and thus can still decide what they are). Basically - for me the choice to maintain how things are isn't really that much less of a crappy choice, depending on alternatives or circumstances. I'd be imposing my decision over people either way. Didn't she sacrifice the consent of billions with that choice though? That choice did mean destroying everyone else in result, didn't it? I mean, like I said - it depends on the rules of the setting. What does this choice accomplishes? Just saying f*** it? Or maybe breaking the vicious cycle?
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 10, 2018 3:38:28 GMT
I also don't believe that making someone change destroys who they are I don't think it does either, but I do believe it violates their personal autonomy and that's something I can't abide. It's not the change - it's the force. I think Hespith said it best: "The true abomination is not that it occurred... but that it was allowed."
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 3:47:48 GMT
I also don't believe that making someone change destroys who they are I don't think it does either, but I do believe it violates their personal autonomy and that's something I can't abide. It's not the change - it's the force. I think Hespith said it best: "The true abomination is not that it occurred... but that it was allowed." Both choices will affect personal autonomy either way. Because we either impose changes on them or deprive them off it. Which one would be better than, in the short or long run? Anyway, in scenario we discuss it mostly matters if you think that the end result for thing like Synthesis is an abomination, or generally a negative thing. I just don't see it as a negative thing and probably wouldn't have it in myself to deprive people of it.
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 10, 2018 3:54:32 GMT
At this point, they should probably have Solas sitting in a literal trolley for the entirety of DA4. Given enough time, every discussion about him eventually becomes a rephrasing of the Trolley Problem.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 10, 2018 4:00:28 GMT
I don't think it does either, but I do believe it violates their personal autonomy and that's something I can't abide. It's not the change - it's the force. I think Hespith said it best: "The true abomination is not that it occurred... but that it was allowed." Both choices will affect personal autonomy either way. Because we either impose changes on them or deprive them off it. Which one would be better than, in the short or long run? In short? In scenario we discuss it mostly matters if you think that the end result for thing like Synthesis is an abomination, or generally a negative thing. I just don't see it as a negative thing and probably wouldn't have it in myself to deprive people of it. I suppose, from my personal perspective... I can't force a change. Certainly not on people who have no say in the matter. If someone wants to change, if they want to synth up or magic up or whatever else, they can take it upon themselves to find a way to do so. Valta can connect with the Titans all day long, Flemeth can carry Mythal in her head for all eternity as long as they leave other people out of it (unless, ofc, Joe Dwarf or Morrigan or w/e decides they want to follow in their footsteps!). But I get what you're saying about imposition vs. deprivation. I just find myself on the other side of that particular minefield. (I hope I'm not coming across as judging you or anyone who agrees with you, by the way. I think these are interesting ethical quandaries and I enjoy discussing them. I look forward to debating with myself over these very questions when DA4 comes out lol.)
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 4:01:31 GMT
At this point, they should probably have Solas sitting in a literal trolley for the entirety of DA4. Given enough time, every discussion about him eventually becomes a rephrasing of the Trolley Problem. Well, so long as we don't have DA4 yet and can only speculate what it is, we'll keep revisiting that issue But it makes me curious whether we'd be revisiting the issue after DA4? I mean, I assume that there may be multiple endings to Solas problem and people will likely have heated discussion about which one was best... but what if our protagonist (or one of them) is put in similar situation? How the perception will change, if WE'RE to make a decision of that caliber, instead of an NPC?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 4:17:20 GMT
I suppose, from my personal perspective... I can't force a change. Certainly not on people who have no say in the matter. If someone wants to change, if they want to synth up or magic up or whatever else, they can take it upon themselves to find a way to do so. Valta can connect with the Titans all day long, Flemeth can carry Mythal in her head for all eternity as long as they leave other people out of it (unless, ofc, Joe Dwarf or Morrigan or w/e decides they want to follow in their footsteps!). But I get what you're saying about imposition vs. deprivation. I just find myself on the other side of that particular minefield. (I hope I'm not coming across as judging you or anyone who agrees with you, by the way. I think these are interesting ethical quandaries and I enjoy discussing them. I look forward to debating with myself over these very questions when DA4 comes out lol.) This is all speculation from the comfort of our armchairs - fortunately none of us is forced to make decisions of that kind IRL (thank god), so I'm just enjoying the discussion And I get that you wouldn't want to force a change. It's not like I'd just push the button the moment I was offered to do so. But if there's one-in-a-billion and probably-once-in-a-lifetime (of whole population) chance to open the door to potential progress - and I'd have to make a decision basically on a spot, with no vetting or chance to discuss it with anyone - I'd probably be the one who wouldn't hesitate long to throw it wide open. We're going to deal with change because, as a species, we deal with it all the time and we're pretty good at it. Ultimately we can decide what to do with it once we have it, which I find a better proposition than mourning forever that we lost it. At least that's how I see it from perspective of my current armchair, lol.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 10, 2018 4:35:57 GMT
I just want to point out,(and only Mass Effect players will know what I'm talking about) that I could NOT take the supposedly good feel Synthesis ending because I would have been making a decision for billions of species without their consent. (it changed literally everyone in the milky way to a mixed breed of artifical and biological, supposedly ending ALL WAR FOREVER) The green works in the things favor. That's one of the reasons I never choose it Destroy is the best. The reapers are no more. With the geth, I let the quarians destroy them over Rannoch. If any problem arises, the galaxy will deal with it at that time. Don't need the reapers. The issue I have with the blue are the reapers are still around, people will be looking over their shoulder wondering if the red beam of doom will be fired. The other is that the thing hesitates for a brief moment when saying it will be forced to accept Shepard taking over. That tells me the thing doesn't want to let go of its toys. A lot of talk about the elf called Solas in the last few pages. I will stick with what I've been saying about him. I would not be surprised if his plan backfires in his face that leads to something he didn't plan on, hopefully banishing himself, like releasing the evanuris for the main character to deal with.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 10, 2018 16:57:34 GMT
These mirrors never take you to another world. According to Morrigan "not all paths lead back to our world". People just don't want to be wrong and argue because of it. Sad really.
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TheHeroOfFerelden
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Feb 10, 2018 17:34:28 GMT
At this point, I'm going to assume that unless Flemeth is in her body, she's full of shit. I love the woman, I really do, but she is an idiot. Hey! My wife might be a liiiiitle bit stubborn sometimes,but she's no idiot!
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Post by phoray on Feb 10, 2018 18:37:49 GMT
According to Morrigan "not all paths lead back to our world". People just don't want to be wrong and argue because of it. Sad really. Irony.
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 10, 2018 19:18:42 GMT
Personally, I think Solas is going to be pretty unambiguously evil in the next game.
Ive never actually gone through Trespasser, so I'm not speaking from a position of total understanding. But as I understand, he doesn't even consider modern elves to be "his people", or even elves at all. The people he's trying to save is something far more ancient and much much different.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 10, 2018 19:25:07 GMT
According to Morrigan "not all paths lead back to our world". People just don't want to be wrong and argue because of it. Sad really. I love how your response to anyone who tries in engage in even polite discussion with you is mostly dismissal or derision.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 19:32:03 GMT
Personally, I think Solas is going to be pretty unambiguously evil in the next game. Ive never actually gone through Trespasser, so I'm not speaking from a position of total understanding. But as I understand, he doesn't even consider modern elves to be "his people", or even elves at all. The people he's trying to save is something far more ancient and much much different. Well, it shows that Trespasser is an integral part of story or understanding Solas - because even if Inquisitor has +1 approval with him and didn't go through his friendship arc, in Trespasser he still admits that everyone are people.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 19:32:42 GMT
People just don't want to be wrong and argue because of it. Sad really. I love how your response to anyone who tries in engage in even polite discussion with you is mostly dismissal or derision. I stopped trying long ago. Not worth it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 10, 2018 19:38:07 GMT
Well, it shows that Trespasser is an integral part of story or understanding Solas - because even if Inquisitor has +1 approval with him and didn't go through his friendship arc, in Trespasser he still admits that everyone are people. Perhaps. Forgive me, however, if I dont fully trust the sweet words of Loki/Set/Lucifer.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 10, 2018 19:41:16 GMT
Well, it shows that Trespasser is an integral part of story or understanding Solas - because even if Inquisitor has +1 approval with him and didn't go through his friendship arc, in Trespasser he still admits that everyone are people. Perhaps. Forgive me, however, if I dont fully trust the sweet words of Loki/Set/Lucifer. Solas doesn't really fit the Loki/Set/Lucifer profile, character-wise or trope-wise. Fen'Harel from legends is closest to Loki, but we do know that that version doesn't really exists. If we were to compare Solas to mythological figure he reflects the closest, it'd be Prometheus.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 10, 2018 19:43:45 GMT
Solas doesn't really fit the Loki/Set/Lucifer profile, character-wise or trope-wise. According to himself, maybe. I'm just speculating, I have no idea what the next game holds. I just don't think Solas will be painted in a very heroic, or even ambiguous, light.
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