linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 6, 2017 23:41:20 GMT
Of course, but to that then what would be an alternative to it, considering it is tied to the actual situation Gil and to an extent, the rest of the Initiative is in? Well, for starters, if you want to show a Vitriolic Best Friends relationship, you need to actually show the friendship part. All I saw from Jill was the vitriol part. Alternately, they don't need to include the part about Gil making Jill's job harder. Instead he could have said something about her frustration with the Initiative's lack of resources and the resulting inability of anybody to have children. That would establish the baby subplot without dragging in a ton of homophobic baggage. If Gil is romanced, Jill's offer is obviously supposed to be a friendly one, but what we got was, "you guys are so cute you should totes have a baby right now," which made her look like she's missing a few screws. Instead, they could have had her say "if you guys ever decide to have a kid in the future, I'll be happy to be the surrogate." If Gil is not romanced, there should have at least been a reference to him finding a boyfriend offscreen so it didn't look like he was entering into a heterosexual relationship. That's a fair assessment, then. Although I would not necessarily agree with some points, I think the lack of a boyfriend for Gil is the biggest change they can make for a non-romance playthrough. Unless that was purposefully left open for the future in some form. |
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 6, 2017 23:41:23 GMT
I doubt there are very many gay men who would greenlight a gay male character being told by his best friend that he's making things harder for her by not having babies. you're missing a lot of context there. Being that this an colonization of another galexy where they need people and it can be done with out sex,I would say it's a valid complaint. Added she does say it to straight men too. I'm well aware of the context. The fact that the team still managed to add a bunch of homophobic baggage just makes them look worse. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 23:43:19 GMT
Why do people care so much about fictional romances? Because they have nothing better to do with their lives. Oh the "They have no life" line, never heard that before. Seriously, does it matter why people care? They care, and now they are happy, isn't that a good thing? If i ever find out that you care about something i think is silly, i won't throw idiot one liners about it. Or maybe now i will since you're doing it. |
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 6, 2017 23:45:39 GMT
Well, for starters, if you want to show a Vitriolic Best Friends relationship, you need to actually show the friendship part. All I saw from Jill was the vitriol part. Alternately, they don't need to include the part about Gil making Jill's job harder. Instead he could have said something about her frustration with the Initiative's lack of resources and the resulting inability of anybody to have children. That would establish the baby subplot without dragging in a ton of homophobic baggage. If Gil is romanced, Jill's offer is obviously supposed to be a friendly one, but what we got was, "you guys are so cute you should totes have a baby right now," which made her look like she's missing a few screws. Instead, they could have had her say "if you guys ever decide to have a kid in the future, I'll be happy to be the surrogate." If Gil is not romanced, there should have at least been a reference to him finding a boyfriend offscreen so it didn't look like he was entering into a heterosexual relationship. That's a fair assessment, then. Although I would not necessarily agree with some points, I think the lack of a boyfriend for Gil is the biggest change they can make for a non-romance playthrough. Unless that was purposefully left open for the future in some form. My point is that if they had actually run that subplot past some gay men, the final result would have looked very different. As it is now, I still see the possibility to fix things, but those fixes are big enough that they would have to happen in DLC. |
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 6, 2017 23:47:25 GMT
That's a fair assessment, then. Although I would not necessarily agree with some points, I think the lack of a boyfriend for Gil is the biggest change they can make for a non-romance playthrough. Unless that was purposefully left open for the future in some form. My point is that if they had actually run that subplot past some gay men, the final result would have looked very different. As it is now, I still see the possibility to fix things, but those fixes are big enough that they would have to happen in DLC. Well, who is to say they didn't though? We know BioWare has consulted with groups in the past on things in the past as a collective dev studio. If they did and that was acceptable or suggested, is that a failing on BioWare for their writing, or the suggestions given to them not being on par with something more clever? This is all speculation, of course. We will never get a confirmation unless they say it outright. |
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Post by Furisco on Jun 6, 2017 23:47:37 GMT
Because they have nothing better to do with their lives. Oh the "They have no life" line, never heard that before. Seriously, does it matter why people care? They care, and now they are happy, isn't that a good thing? If i ever find out that you care about something i think is silly, i won't throw idiot one liners about it. Or maybe now i will since you're doing it. Feel free to do it. I have a lot of fun shitposting on forums! |
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Post by Roxy on Jun 6, 2017 23:48:33 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo...  |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 6, 2017 23:49:16 GMT
you're missing a lot of context there. Being that this an colonization of another galexy where they need people and it can be done with out sex,I would say it's a valid complaint. Added she does say it to straight men too. I'm well aware of the context. The fact that the team still managed to add a bunch of homophobic baggage just makes them look worse. and so it's not a point agent gil and jill. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 6, 2017 23:50:40 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Dorian is deliberately stated to be 100% gay. Jaal is not stated to be 100% straight. Huge difference. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 23:50:53 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Jaal won't be bi in your Sara playthrough. |
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 6, 2017 23:52:13 GMT
My point is that if they had actually run that subplot past some gay men, the final result would have looked very different. As it is now, I still see the possibility to fix things, but those fixes are big enough that they would have to happen in DLC. Well, who is to say they didn't though? We know BioWare has consulted with groups in the past on things in the past as a collective dev studio. If they did and that was acceptable or suggested, is that a failing on BioWare for their writing, or the suggestions given to them not being on par with something more clever? This is all speculation, of course. We will never get a confirmation unless they say it outright. The shear amount of homophobic baggage in that subplot tells me that they didn't consult any actual gay men. Plus this is a different team than the one running Dragon Age, so Weekes's willingness to consult actual transpeople so he could make sure he got Krem's portrayal right has no bearing. And of course there was the whole thing with Abrams. Or maybe the team did consult actual gay men and were just stupid enough to assume they knew better. Or maybe they had bad luck and all the gay men they found to consult were in the incredibly small minority who wouldn't at least raise an eyebrow at, "my best friend is making my job harder because he's gay." This is listed in order of decreasing probability. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 6, 2017 23:52:40 GMT
That's a fair assessment, then. Although I would not necessarily agree with some points, I think the lack of a boyfriend for Gil is the biggest change they can make for a non-romance playthrough. Unless that was purposefully left open for the future in some form. My point is that if they had actually run that subplot past some gay men, the final result would have looked very different. As it is now, I still see the possibility to fix things, but those fixes are big enough that they would have to happen in DLC. there gay men on the writing team, art team, programing team and etc. No issue were stated. Sorry, but Gil and Jill are fine. |
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Post by Furisco on Jun 6, 2017 23:53:26 GMT
One thing that's really funny about twitter is how many idiots you can find there saying stupid shit like this: "Bioware doesn't care about the LGBT community" "I can't believe they did that to us" Meanwhile in the same game people are talking shit about we see straight, gays, lesbians and trans people.  |
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 6, 2017 23:54:07 GMT
My point is that if they had actually run that subplot past some gay men, the final result would have looked very different. As it is now, I still see the possibility to fix things, but those fixes are big enough that they would have to happen in DLC. there gay men on the writing team, art team, programing team and etc. No issue were stated. Sorry, but Gil and Jill are fine. I think you're trolling now. Unless you're gay yourself, you have no business presuming to lecture a gay man on what constitutes homophobia. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 6, 2017 23:54:09 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Liam, Jaal and Reyes as romances for straight Sara. 3 romances. I'm struggling to see a problem here. |
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Post by Deana on Jun 6, 2017 23:55:10 GMT
added a new bald option
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Post by Warrick on Jun 6, 2017 23:56:25 GMT
The game doesn't need another romance, what it needs is better asari faces and two extra hand spans worth of leg for everybody.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 6, 2017 23:56:55 GMT
Well, who is to say they didn't though? We know BioWare has consulted with groups in the past on things in the past as a collective dev studio. If they did and that was acceptable or suggested, is that a failing on BioWare for their writing, or the suggestions given to them not being on par with something more clever? This is all speculation, of course. We will never get a confirmation unless they say it outright. The shear amount of homophobic baggage in that subplot tells me that they didn't consult any actual gay men. Plus this is a different team than the one running Dragon Age, so Weekes's willingness to consult actual transpeople so he could make sure he got Krem's portrayal right has no bearing. And of course there was the whole thing with Abrams. Or maybe the team did consult actual gay men and were just stupid enough to assume they knew better. Or maybe they had bad luck and all the gay men they found to consult were in the incredibly small minority who wouldn't at least raise an eyebrow at, "my best friend is making my job harder because he's gay." This is listed in order of decreasing probability. But this is also positing a belief that it was either unintentionally or intentionally homophobic no? As I said, I know some gay men in my own circles who have had comments by their best friends like that before. It's not all gay men, but it is a thing that occurs and is also generally accepted by some people. They don't see similar comments as "homophobic baggage" in that regard. I guess my point is that presuming one over the other is kind of pointless now, what matters is how does it change in the future, if at all possible. |
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 6, 2017 23:57:00 GMT
added a new bald option WTF Bioware? Really? We were missing a baldmance. Good call, BioWare. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 23:57:47 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Hmm, bi men just seem to get a lot of shit from straight women. |
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 6, 2017 23:57:48 GMT
The game doesn't need another romance, what it needs is better asari faces and two extra hand spans worth of leg for everybody. It did need to fix the Unfortunate Implications that came with A) gay male players have no options on the squad, and  forcing gay men, and only gay men, to play another gender or orientation to get every trophy. |
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Post by Furisco on Jun 6, 2017 23:58:09 GMT
there gay men on the writing team, art team, programing team and etc. No issue were stated. Sorry, but Gil and Jill are fine. I think you're trolling now. Unless you're gay yourself, you have no business presuming to lecture a gay man on what constitutes homophobia. Shitty character =/= homophobic subplot |
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Post by Roxy on Jun 6, 2017 23:58:17 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Liam, Jaal and Reyes as romances for straight Sara. 3 romances. I'm struggling to see a problem here. I'm talking about straight not Bi not someone who swings both ways. Reyes and Jaal go for men and women. Does that help? |
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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PSN: LinksOcarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 6, 2017 23:58:49 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Hmm, bi men just seem to get a lot of shit from straight women. You have no idea. |
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 7, 2017 0:00:04 GMT
there gay men on the writing team, art team, programing team and etc. No issue were stated. Sorry, but Gil and Jill are fine. I think you're trolling now. Unless you're gay yourself, you have no business presuming to lecture a gay man on what constitutes homophobia. telling you to have kids is homophobic? As I said before context makes the difference. It's not the case were they are trying to tastelessly get gay men to have sex with woman and try to make them straight. It's about sperm donation and the fact being gay does not mean you can't have a family. Being gay does not mean you can't have or raise a kid and it can be all done with out sex. In the end it comes down to context. |
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forcing gay men, and only gay men, to play another gender or orientation to get every trophy.