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Post by dreman999 on Jun 7, 2017 0:00:44 GMT
The game doesn't need another romance, what it needs is better asari faces and two extra hand spans worth of leg for everybody. legs are fine. More asari faces are not going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 0:01:14 GMT
Hmm, bi men just seem to get a lot of shit from straight women. You have no idea. Sorry, bruh. I know the queer community has it's share of problems with biphobia as well, so I'm not gonna be pointing the finger at just straight women.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 7, 2017 0:01:27 GMT
I think you're trolling now. Unless you're gay yourself, you have no business presuming to lecture a gay man on what constitutes homophobia. telling you to have kids is homophobic? As I said before context makes the difference. It's not the case were they are trying to tastelessly get gay men to have sex with woman and try to make them straight. It's about sperm donation and the fact being gay does not mean you can't have a family. Being gay does not mean you can't have or raise a kid and it can be all done with out sex. In the end it comes down to context. That is true, but the point being made is that context doesn't shine through, I believe.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 7, 2017 0:02:12 GMT
Sorry, bruh. I know the queer community has it's share of problems with biphobia as well, so I'm not gonna be pointing the finger at just straight women. No worries.
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Post by Furisco on Jun 7, 2017 0:02:20 GMT
Hide your popcorn. The amount of shit flying everywhere is no joke.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Xanphal on Jun 7, 2017 0:03:06 GMT
Of course, but to that then what would be an alternative to it, considering it is tied to the actual situation Gil and to an extent, the rest of the Initiative is in? Well, for starters, if you want to show a Vitriolic Best Friends relationship, you need to actually show the friendship part. All I saw from Jill was the vitriol part. Alternately, they don't need to include the part about Gil making Jill's job harder. Instead he could have said something about her frustration with the Initiative's lack of resources and the resulting inability of anybody to have children. That would establish the baby subplot without dragging in a ton of homophobic baggage. If Gil is romanced, Jill's offer is obviously supposed to be a friendly one, but what we got was, "you guys are so cute you should totes have a baby right now," which made her look like she's missing a few screws. Instead, they could have had her say "if you guys ever decide to have a kid in the future, I'll be happy to be the surrogate." If Gil is not romanced, there should have at least been a reference to him finding a boyfriend offscreen so it didn't look like he was entering into a heterosexual relationship. The Jill plot makes me so mad. On the bright end of the scale it's supposed to be cute and probably an attempt at being a little fan-service; unfortunately the entire tone of Gil's relationship with Jill comes off as worrisome and potentially abusive. You have a female who is constantly hounding her gay male friend that he should have children. She manages to insert the idea, then use her knowledge of him to twist him around and get him so worked up about the subject that it becomes the only thing he talks about. And then, like a gift from the heavens, she suddenly announces she wants to have a baby and she wants him to help. If this doesn't sound like a woman who had the end result in mind the WHOLE TIME, I don't know what is. When you add in the Ryder romance it gets so much worse; the whole pacing of everything, the lack of real conversation and decision-making, or choice. There is no 'this is a huge decision, let me think about it' option, or even a 'if it's important to you, you do it, but I'm not comfortable with it'. You are cornered into a 'yes' or 'no' situation which can hugely affect the relationship. If you say 'yes', Gil is happy and the relationship is sound, but you're having a baby with a woman you've met once for 30 seconds. If you say 'no' you now have a guy who's been turned inside-out by his best friend and thinking that if he HADN'T hooked up with Ryder he could have been having a baby right now which you cannot convince me means anything other than a breakup off screen becoming very imminent. Essentially, this whole plotline was badly thought out and badly executed. There were a million things that could have been done to create a real, solid, healthy baby plot for Gil, and none of them were done. It was rushed, and brushed over quickly, and to be honest, I'm not so much disappointed that they chose to make Jaal bi, as I am that they chose not to fix the relationships that they already had. One of the tweets about it states that they got Jaal's VA back in to record new lines for the transition to Bi-Jaal; so why the hell couldn't they get Gil (and Reyes') VA's in to expand on their plots and make an attempt at fixing them? In the end I feel like they didn't so much 'fix male romances for Scott Ryder' as they added a hotfix to try and appease people without fixing the real issues. I couldn't care less that they made Jaal bi, I wanted them to back up their own work and fix what had gone wrong.
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Post by dreman999 on Jun 7, 2017 0:04:04 GMT
telling you to have kids is homophobic? As I said before context makes the difference. It's not the case were they are trying to tastelessly get gay men to have sex with woman and try to make them straight. It's about sperm donation and the fact being gay does not mean you can't have a family. Being gay does not mean you can't have or raise a kid and it can be all done with out sex. In the end it comes down to context. That is true, but the point being made is that context doesn't shine through, I believe. but it does because it get explain. Jill job is to help make more people. Added she says the same thing to Ryder.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2017 0:04:04 GMT
Liam, Jaal and Reyes as romances for straight Sara. 3 romances. I'm struggling to see a problem here. I'm talking about straight not Bi not someone who swings both ways. Reyes and Jaal go for men and women. Does that help? Nope. Still sounds like a non-issue to me. If Jaal or Reyes are having a romance with Sara Ryder, then by definition, they are not having a romance with another woman or man at the same time. That is no different to a romance with Liam who at that point is not having a romance with another woman at the same time. Please explain simply because I simply don't understand what your concern is?
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 7, 2017 0:04:09 GMT
The shear amount of homophobic baggage in that subplot tells me that they didn't consult any actual gay men. Plus this is a different team than the one running Dragon Age, so Weekes's willingness to consult actual transpeople so he could make sure he got Krem's portrayal right has no bearing. And of course there was the whole thing with Abrams. Or maybe the team did consult actual gay men and were just stupid enough to assume they knew better. Or maybe they had bad luck and all the gay men they found to consult were in the incredibly small minority who wouldn't at least raise an eyebrow at, "my best friend is making my job harder because he's gay." This is listed in order of decreasing probability. But this is also positing a belief that it was either unintentionally or intentionally homophobic no? As I said, I know some gay men in my own circles who have had comments by their best friends like that before. It's not all gay men, but it is a thing that occurs and is also generally accepted by some people. They don't see similar comments as "homophobic baggage" in that regard. I guess my point is that presuming one over the other is kind of pointless now, what matters is how does it change in the future, if at all possible. I don't think it was intentional, but it doesn't need to be. Did you see what Krem's portrayal would have been if Weekes hadn't consulted actual transpeople? He had good intentions from the beginning, but yikes.
Regardless of what one's intentions are, the fact that same-sex relationships don't produce children by definition has a very long history of being used to justify homophobia. There are plenty of ways that Gil, Jill, and the baby subplot could have been handled without playing into that, but those routes were not taken, and the writers need to take a serious look at how to avoid that kind of misstep in the future.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 7, 2017 0:04:43 GMT
Hide your popcorn. The amount of shit flying everywhere is no joke.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 7, 2017 0:06:24 GMT
But this is also positing a belief that it was either unintentionally or intentionally homophobic no? As I said, I know some gay men in my own circles who have had comments by their best friends like that before. It's not all gay men, but it is a thing that occurs and is also generally accepted by some people. They don't see similar comments as "homophobic baggage" in that regard. I guess my point is that presuming one over the other is kind of pointless now, what matters is how does it change in the future, if at all possible. I don't think it was intentional, but it doesn't need to be. Did you see what Krem's portrayal would have been if Weekes hadn't consulted actual transpeople? He had good intentions from the beginning, but yikes.
Regardless of what one's intentions are, the fact that same-sex relationships don't produce children by definition has a very long history of being used to justify homophobia. There are plenty of ways that Gil, Jill, and the baby subplot could have been handled without playing into that, but those routes were not taken, and the writers need to take a serious look at how to avoid that kind of misstep in the future. I don't necessarily agree with that overall analysis, but I am sure they will look into it in the future at this point anyway so that base is covered for sure.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 7, 2017 0:06:25 GMT
I think you're trolling now. Unless you're gay yourself, you have no business presuming to lecture a gay man on what constitutes homophobia. telling you to have kids is homophobic? As I said before context makes the difference. It's not the case were they are trying to tastelessly get gay men to have sex with woman and try to make them straight. It's about sperm donation and the fact being gay does not mean you can't have a family. Being gay does not mean you can't have or raise a kid and it can be all done with out sex. In the end it comes down to context. And despite all that they still managed to put in the subtext of "being gay is wrong because they won't make babies." I'm not sure why you think that's supposed to impress me.
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Post by Furisco on Jun 7, 2017 0:07:57 GMT
Yall a bunch of ignorant bigots!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Jun 7, 2017 0:08:16 GMT
Just fort the record - DAI was the only game where straight women got 1 more additional option with strong restrictions. One game. Out of all BW games. And again, we are talking about ME here. Now, if you are someone who believes there are no straight people out there but only bi with preferences (btw, how come you still believe in gays in that case?) - good for you. But I had an impression the whole point of established sexuality was meant for deeper character development and to show more of character's relation with other companions. So they could tell - like Jaal - about there past loves and flirt with selective few of other companions - like Jaal - to form some specific bonds. I do understand all reasons for changing Jaal (no, not what marketing bullshit they announced), but I also do think changing already existing character is a very bad move. Strong restrictions? hum no, in DAI women got to play with 4 diferent romance and they just have to choose one specifically once they choose a specific race, if they play an elf they romance solas, if they play human they romance cullen, if they play dwarf or qunari they romance blackwall or iron bull. Its not that "restrictive" they get to experince the 4 races while having a different romance each time. I never said there is only bi with preference, I just say it is possible and that jaal might be one.Now for jaal, how does it's characterization is less deep now that he is bissexual, how does it remove anything from him. Its not like gil who has a whole plot with raising child considering his sexuality, same for Dorian who was nearly brainwash for his homosexuality to be reversed. On those characters, yes the sexuality plays an important role in their actual story and back story. But for jaal, what does he lose becoming bissexual? how does it affect negatively his relation with other companion, go ahead tell me I am curious. This is EXACTLY what you said: "The fact that jaal is interested in ladies does not mean he can't be interested in man, one does not negate the other. He could be a bissexual with preference for woman" You have a character that talks only about women (including his past love), flirts only with women, discussed by women (regarding his sexuality) and even was advertised as a straight ("he is a lady killer") - yet, for you all of these are not the evidence of character being straight. If this is not a clear statement "there are no straight people out there" - then I do not know what is. May be you can give your definition of a "clearly straight character"? I just do not see what else writers have to do to convince you. My point is, they changed existing character. On demand of part of their gamers. It was a cheap move to begin with, and it was done at expense of another part of their audience they care the least - straight women. Ask gay community why do they want so badly gay options and not satisfied with bi characters. Guess what? Straight women do want straight options as well. And they had it. Until now.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 7, 2017 0:10:18 GMT
Well, for starters, if you want to show a Vitriolic Best Friends relationship, you need to actually show the friendship part. All I saw from Jill was the vitriol part. Alternately, they don't need to include the part about Gil making Jill's job harder. Instead he could have said something about her frustration with the Initiative's lack of resources and the resulting inability of anybody to have children. That would establish the baby subplot without dragging in a ton of homophobic baggage. If Gil is romanced, Jill's offer is obviously supposed to be a friendly one, but what we got was, "you guys are so cute you should totes have a baby right now," which made her look like she's missing a few screws. Instead, they could have had her say "if you guys ever decide to have a kid in the future, I'll be happy to be the surrogate." If Gil is not romanced, there should have at least been a reference to him finding a boyfriend offscreen so it didn't look like he was entering into a heterosexual relationship. In the end I feel like they didn't so much 'fix male romances for Scott Ryder' as they added a hotfix to try and appease people without fixing the real issues. I couldn't care less that they made Jaal bi, I wanted them to back up their own work and fix what had gone wrong. Bi Jaal does fix what I feel are the two biggest issues though. I agree that there are still other improvements that need to be made, but from what I can see those need to be dealt with in either DLC or sequels.
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himbo rights activist
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Post by Suaimhneas on Jun 7, 2017 0:10:35 GMT
Bunch of immature people in this thread. I know Sara can still romance Jaal and nothing has changed with that but just imagine if Dorian was turned bi or heck straight for us ladies...I don't think you all would like that now would you? It seems Liam is the only straight LI for Sara now. Woohoo... Jaal won't be bi in your Sara playthrough. Yes he will. Bisexual men in relationships with women aren't any less bisexual.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 0:12:25 GMT
Jaal won't be bi in your Sara playthrough. Yes he will. Bisexual men in relationships with women aren't any less bisexual. Haha meaning he's not going to chat about his male LI's to Sara. It seems some people think making him bi will change him as a character and I'm not sure how that works.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2017 0:14:30 GMT
* It was a cheap move to begin with, and it was done at expense of another part of their audience they care the least - straight women. ... Straight women do want straight options as well. And they had it. Until now. I'm really struggling to understand - how does this change the Sara/Jaal relationship one iota? Nothing is different. I'm really confused.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Dirk on Jun 7, 2017 0:15:22 GMT
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Post by derrame on Jun 7, 2017 0:17:00 GMT
hi there pathfinders here are the patch notes of the upcoming update 1.08 Improved Character Creator We’ve expanded the options available in the character creator, giving you greater control over your Ryder’s appearance. Two new heads were added, one male and one female, as well as a new complexion option and a greater range of available skin tones. We also unlocked all hairstyles for both sexes, and added a new bald option. For players wanting to adjust their look mid-game, we added the ability to change your character’s appearance onboard the Tempest. And for fans of Alec Ryder’s iconic appearance, you can now choose to keep the default Alec, rather than having his appearance be based on your custom Ryder. Expanded Male Romance Options for Scott Ryder Scott Ryder can now pursue Jaal as a romance option. There are several important reasons for this change: Scott Ryder did not have a same-sex squadmate available as a romance option, nor could the achievement for completing three romances be achieved with only male same-sex partners. And as the angara have expressed their fluidity in how they perceive gender, it seemed only natural that Scott could have a relationship with Jaal. However, we understand that a character’s orientation is an important part of what makes them feel real. The relationships with your crew are some of the most loved and cherished parts of our games, so we wanted to make sure we got it right. We consulted with members of the LGBTQ community, both externally and within our own studios. After carefully considering all feedback, we decided this was an important change to make, and one that made sense for Jaal, Scott, and the angara. Our writing, editing, and animation teams worked together to ensure this change made sense for Jaal’s character, and the result is a relationship we hope feels as fulfilling and memorable for Scott as it does for Sara. You can find a full list of changes and improvements in the patch notes below. For notes in other languages, click here. Single player Ryder’s appearance can now be changed onboard the Tempest Expanded the range of options available in the character creator Jaal can now be romanced by Scott Ryder Dialogue for Hainly Abrams was adjusted to change the flow of personal information she discusses with Ryder. Fixed issue with Nomad upgrades Shield Crafting quest Nexus level and cryo pod points are retroactively granted Vendors now carry weapon mods for Level 60-71 players Vendors now sell weapon augmentations for automatic fire, burst fire, and single-shot fire Improved clarity of descriptions for augmentations Plasma Charge system now works properly for shotguns Beam Emitter augmentation now causes guns to fire a constant beam with scaling damage based on the weapon’s damage per second [PC] Added experimental support for Dolby Vision™ technology Multiplayer Stealth Grid challenge now increments properly Fiend no longer sprints when within 10 meters of target, and will decelerate to base speed Enabled movement correction during Fiend attacks to reduce incidence of players seeing Fiends attacking in the wrong direction Improved movement prediction for some enemies in tight spaces to reduce appearance of teleportation Fixed issue that prevented melee attacks if the revive icon was near center screen Fixed issue where ammo pick-up audio incorrectly played Fixed issue where Backlash could malfunction while moving Using Stealth and Recon Visor together no longer increases duration of invisibility for Turian Agent Fixed issue where weight reduction modifications wouldn’t reduce weight The Revive Pack Transmitter now displays the revive radius in the loadout screen Equipping the Cobra RPG now interrupts reloading Player turns to Adhi when getting synced to avoid teleportation issue Fixed issue where enemies would occasionally enter T-pose when hit Improved visual and audio cues for player ready status in Multiplayer lobbies Added “Lights” option to customization options blog.bioware.com/mass-effect-andromeda-patch-notes/
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LilTIM
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 155 Likes: 247
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Post by LilTIM on Jun 7, 2017 0:17:04 GMT
Why don't make Suvi a love interest for Scott? Everyone knows.
I would ask for a ingame source for "And as the angara have expressed their fluidity in how they perceive gender", but i am beyond caring by now, BW would pull one out of their ass anyhow. When the devs admit to go asking for advice to LGBTQ+ groups about changing the game, then i know BW is doomed.
This is just fan pandering to a vocal minority, in order to dress themselves with the "represent everyone" aura, a useful mechanism to gather some goodwill and most importantly deflect criticism, guess BW wants people to stop talking about the shitty things in the game.
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Post by Furisco on Jun 7, 2017 0:20:31 GMT
Why don't make Suvi a love interest for Scott? Everyone knows. I would ask for a ingame source for " And as the angara have expressed their fluidity in how they perceive gender", but i am beyond caring by now, BW would pull one out of their ass anyhow. When the devs admit to go asking for advice to LGBTQ+ groups about changing the game, then i know BW is doomed. This is just fan pandering to a vocal minority, in order to dress themselves with the "represent everyone" aura, a useful mechanism to gather some goodwill and most importantly deflect criticism, guess BW wants people to stop talking about the shitty things in the game. Funny how those people talked so much shit about Bioware in a game full of representation.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 7, 2017 0:22:53 GMT
Why do people think it's a bad thing for developers to talk to minorities they don't belong to themselves so they can make sure they get the portrayal of that minority right?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 7, 2017 0:23:28 GMT
Why don't make Suvi a love interest for Scott? Everyone knows. I would ask for a ingame source for " And as the angara have expressed their fluidity in how they perceive gender", but i am beyond caring by now, BW would pull one out of their ass anyhow. When the devs admit to go asking for advice to LGBTQ+ groups about changing the game, then i know BW is doomed. This is just fan pandering to a vocal minority, in order to dress themselves with the "represent everyone" aura, a useful mechanism to gather some goodwill and most importantly deflect criticism, guess BW wants people to stop talking about the shitty things in the game. Fan pandering? Hardly. The m/m romances were insufficient for even hitting the 3 romances achievement. This was a fix that means every player can enjoy a range of romance options. There are already several female romance options for Scott. And this patch disadvantages you how? hmmm?
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