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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 30, 2016 14:26:27 GMT
A and B is were your argument falls apart because if she is so high ranking and so much a true believer then why should she leave? Particularly when the conversation with her puts her departure from Cerberus shortly after Shepard was grounded and imprisoned. Which is well before TIM starts dabbling in Reaper tech. Other wise Miranda would have contacted Shepard or the Alliance about that. Because that would be a step to far. She is placed by you on such a high pedestal that her actions following ME 2 make no logical sense. Because even the dabbling in Reaper tech is not much worse then what she planned to do to Shepard anyways. By your own logic she should have been on Cronos with Leng pulling a trigger at Shepard. A and B make C impossible under your set up. This is what you keep missing with your stance. You are literally creating your own plot hole and then blaming it on the writing, planing and lack of interest of the game developers. Miranda left either because she sided with Shepard when destroying the Collector base or for an, as yet not defined reason shortly after the end of ME2. There are many possibilities. Which one you choose to believe is irrelevant. Miranda's characterization in ME2 is clear, as is her break from Cerberus in ME3. Logically she left, and it must've been for a good reason. Finding out this reason is just one more opportunity the game missed by not having her be a more central figure. I don't place her on any pedestal. What's in the game defines who she is, nothing more. Your interpretation of the character's motivations is simply wrong. As is your assertion that TIM and Reaper tech. TIM's been playing with Reaper tech since Retribution when he tested it on Grayson. Then the Omega incident with the Adjutants. And by the time of Mass Effect Infiltrator you have Cerberus troops proper, including a phantom in Liara's Homeworlds comic. Finally Reaper tech is not the same as a control chip, not even close. That should go without saying, but if it needs to be said, so be it. So you don't place her on any pedestal but my interpretation of the character's motivation is wrong. Contradiction much? That is you placing her on a pedestal and declaring any other possible set ups are wrong. Your set up with Miranda reminds me of: Phase 1: Miranda is a 20 year old supper support of Cerberus who brought a man back to life and heavily leaned towards implanting a control chip in their head. Repeatedly defended Cerberus's more shady actions and basically acted like a Cheerleader. Phase 2: ????? Phase 3: She should have been on Cronos to watch the organization fall. Tell me what grand differences is there between control chip and what ever it is that TIM did to make his solider in ME3? Because both involve technological implants that strip them of their ability to make their own choices. And instead are compelled to obey TIM. Most of them are kidnapped/recruited falsely into his experiments. Nothing TIM does is out of the ordinary for what he is shown to do in ME2. Save for him being a lot more directly confrontational then before. And yet for some reason with your set up why Miranda left is nothing but ???? for your statement.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 31, 2016 0:02:47 GMT
So you don't place her on any pedestal but my interpretation of the character's motivation is wrong. Contradiction much? That is you placing her on a pedestal and declaring any other possible set ups are wrong. Tell me what grand differences is there between control chip and what ever it is that TIM did to make his solider in ME3? Because both involve technological implants that strip them of their ability to make their own choices. And instead are compelled to obey TIM. Most of them are kidnapped/recruited falsely into his experiments. Nothing TIM does is out of the ordinary for what he is shown to do in ME2. Save for him being a lot more directly confrontational then before. And yet for some reason with your set up why Miranda left is nothing but ???? for your statement. There is no contradiction. Her motivations in the game are clear. She is loyal to and believes in Cerberus until Mass Effect 3. This is directly stated. You are not arguing against me, you are arguing against the game. And so, you are wrong. There are no other "possible setups" within this particular question. The difference is the control chip wouldn't have turned Shepard into a husk, or half-husk or whatever the troopers are. It would've been a failsafe only, not robbing Shepard of his will other than in the philosophical sense of being unable to choose otherwise and it wasn't Reaper tech, something that's been shown to backfire 100% of the time. But you already know this.
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Post by kalasaurus on Oct 31, 2016 6:54:16 GMT
Mass Effect would be 100x better if the cast was replaced by fish.
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Post by jackievakarian on Oct 31, 2016 20:46:22 GMT
I actually like James Vega. I see much of myself in him. I thought he was overall hella cool, and people shit on him way too much.
I do think he very sweet and cute as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 11:08:50 GMT
I actually like James Vega. I see much of myself in him. I thought he was overall hella cool, and people shit on him way too much. I do think he very sweet and cute as well. I like Vega as well. I think most people's beef with him is that he took a place in the squad over a squadmate from ME2. It's ME2's own fault really for taking such a huge detour, introducing so many new (albeit totally awesome and memorable) characters, then having ME3 bascially suffer the burden of having to get the story back on track, tie up all loose ends, AND effectively ensure all characters are in someway resolved as well. He's easily likable. There really isn't much in my humble opinion that makes him outright dislikable, save perhaps for a wee bit of brashness and abandon of professionalism, but the latter of his is NOTHING compared to the complete and utter lack of professionalism from Joker. There's an unpopular opinion for the thread that might not have been raised. I like Joker... sort of. But I don't get the huuuge love for his character, when half the time his lack of professionalism, cockiness, and poorly timed jokes just tic me off. Like the very first time we meet him, he manages to accomplish all three of the above before we even get control of Shepard. "I hate that important turian spectre, with his half assed compliments" "I'm incredible, best pilot in the galaxeh" "I don't like that spectre on MY ship (its really not your ship), watch out Anderson, Nihlus is coming!!! Wow, that Anderson's an angry old fart" Javik should have thrown him out the airlock.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 1, 2016 11:46:51 GMT
I actually like James Vega. I see much of myself in him. I thought he was overall hella cool, and people shit on him way too much. I like the character as well, but I would rather of had an ME2 squadmate on the roster instead
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Post by shechinah on Nov 1, 2016 12:26:47 GMT
I actually like James Vega. I see much of myself in him. I thought he was overall hella cool, and people shit on him way too much. I like the character as well, but I would rather of had an ME2 squadmate on the roster instead Same. I think the reception James recieved was in part influenced by how there were already a large number of squadmates by the third game yet they were adding to those numbers with a new squadmate rather than using old ones that people had been hoping see make a return to the team.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 12:38:30 GMT
I like the character as well, but I would rather of had an ME2 squadmate on the roster instead Same. I think the reception James recieved was in part influenced by how there were already a large number of squadmates by the third game yet they were adding to those numbers with a new squadmate rather than using old ones that people had been hoping see make a return to the team. Of course, there was this little issue that any of the ME2 squad mates may not have survived the events of ME2. Bioware probably didn't want the game starting out in a bunch of different possible ways. I was actually surprised they brought the VS into the game so quickly... but then they kept the "branching" impact to a minimum by putting them in the hospital for the first half of the game. I liked James as a character... sparring with him was a nice touch... He should have been a possible LI for FemShep though (and not just in the Citadel DLC).
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Post by themikefest on Nov 1, 2016 13:12:15 GMT
Of course, there was this little issue that any of the ME2 squad mates may not have survived the events of ME2. That's why Garrus and Tali were able to make it on the roster?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 13:19:53 GMT
Of course, there was this little issue that any of the ME2 squad mates may not have survived the events of ME2. That's why Garrus and Tali were able to make it on the roster? Both came on a little later in the game... and the player still had that starting base of 3 squadmates (James, EDI and Liara) if Garrus and Tali had died in ME2. They could have always done it differently than they did (heck, they could have written an entirely different game)... but they opted to introduce a couple of new characters instead.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 1, 2016 13:39:53 GMT
That's why Garrus and Tali were able to make it on the roster? Both came on a little later in the game... and the player still had that starting base of 3 squadmates (James, EDI and Liara) if Garrus and Tali had died in ME2. They could have always done it differently than they did (heck, they could have written an entirely different game)... but they opted to introduce a couple of new characters instead. A little later? For Tali, sure. For Garrus, no. Both are ME1 characters. The same reason why Wrex is a squadmate for the Citadel dlc. He's an ME1 character. Clearly Bioware favored the ME1 characters. That's why I call ME3, ME1 Part 2 Garrus added nothing to the game. No need for him to be a squadmate. If anything just have him at Victus side until the genophage is dealt with. Tali has the same role as Xen. No need for her to be a squadmate. Yes things could've been done differently. Had more time been given, the game most likely be different from what it is now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 13:52:49 GMT
Both came on a little later in the game... and the player still had that starting base of 3 squadmates (James, EDI and Liara) if Garrus and Tali had died in ME2. They could have always done it differently than they did (heck, they could have written an entirely different game)... but they opted to introduce a couple of new characters instead. A little later? For Tali, sure. For Garrus, no. Both are ME1 characters. The same reason why Wrex is a squadmate for the Citadel dlc. He's an ME1 character. Clearly Bioware favored the ME1 characters. That's why I call ME3, ME1 Part 2 Garrus added nothing to the game. No need for him to be a squadmate. If anything just have him at Victus side until the genophage is dealt with. Tali has the same role as Xen. No need for her to be a squadmate. Yes things could've been done differently. Had more time been given, the game most likely be different from what it is now. A little later - yes... as opposed to the very start... because James is introduced right at the very start of the game and becomes a squad mate immediately after leaving Anderson on earth. Neither Tali nor Garrus are on the squad at the very start of the game. My post is about the introduction of James as a new squad mate... not about the lack of ME2 characters becoming squad mates later on. They opted to introduce James rather than start the game with a different old squad mate (depending on who had lived in ME2). They could have written the beginning quest as a solo - generic one and recruited 2 different old squad mates on that mission but they opted to just introduce a new character and use Liara who could not have died in ME2... and then they made the first recruitment mission specific to the Turians and be one where you could possibly recruit Garrus (if he lived) as another squad mate. I would appreciated it if you stop trying to twist my words to launch your pet peeves. BTW, I absolutely would have loved being able to recruit Jack (if she lived) after Grissom Academy, Samara after Lessus, Miranda after Horizon, etc.... but they didn't write the game that way either. I would have perhaps even put in a Cerberus arc before Palaven in order to recruit Miranda and Jacob before Garrus. I would not have given EDI a body and put her on the squad at all... leaving Joker to be portrayed as the guy in love with the ship itself... but they didn't write the game that way either. As for Wrex in the Citadel DLC... I took it as just a lark move... and it was DLC, so I didn't really care either way.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 1, 2016 14:15:26 GMT
A little later? For Tali, sure. For Garrus, no. Both are ME1 characters. The same reason why Wrex is a squadmate for the Citadel dlc. He's an ME1 character. Clearly Bioware favored the ME1 characters. That's why I call ME3, ME1 Part 2 Garrus added nothing to the game. No need for him to be a squadmate. If anything just have him at Victus side until the genophage is dealt with. Tali has the same role as Xen. No need for her to be a squadmate. Yes things could've been done differently. Had more time been given, the game most likely be different from what it is now. A little later - yes... as opposed to the very start... because James is introduced right at the very start of the game and becomes a squad mate immediately after leaving Anderson on earth. Neither Tali nor Garrus are on the squad at the very start of the game. My post is about the introduction of James as a new squad mate... not about the lack of ME2 characters becoming squad mates later on. They opted to introduce James rather than start the game with a different old squad mate (depending on who had lived in ME2). They could have written the beginning quest as a solo - generic one and recruited 2 different old squad mates on that mission but they opted to just introduce a new character, use Liara who could not have died in ME2, and made the first recruitment mission specific to the Turians and be one where you could possible recruit Garrus (if he lived) as another squad mate. I would appreciated it if you stop trying to twist my words to launch your pet peeves. James and Kaidan/Ashley are at the beginning. On Mars, the asari joins the squad. On Menae, Garrus joins the squad before the platform does. So if you say the edibot is from the beginning, then you need to add Garrus to that
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 14:20:13 GMT
A little later - yes... as opposed to the very start... because James is introduced right at the very start of the game and becomes a squad mate immediately after leaving Anderson on earth. Neither Tali nor Garrus are on the squad at the very start of the game. My post is about the introduction of James as a new squad mate... not about the lack of ME2 characters becoming squad mates later on. They opted to introduce James rather than start the game with a different old squad mate (depending on who had lived in ME2). They could have written the beginning quest as a solo - generic one and recruited 2 different old squad mates on that mission but they opted to just introduce a new character, use Liara who could not have died in ME2, and made the first recruitment mission specific to the Turians and be one where you could possible recruit Garrus (if he lived) as another squad mate. I would appreciated it if you stop trying to twist my words to launch your pet peeves. James and Kaidan/Ashley are at the beginning. On Mars, the asari joins the squad. On Menae, Garrus joins the squad before the platform does. So if you say the edibot is from the beginning, then you need to add Garrus to that EDI was introduced to bring the count to 3... in case Garrus wasn't there to recruit... giving the player an option to pick 2 of 3 for their next mission. If Garrus died in ME2... he does not join the squad before EDI.
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Post by jackievakarian on Nov 1, 2016 17:07:47 GMT
Same. I think the reception James recieved was in part influenced by how there were already a large number of squadmates by the third game yet they were adding to those numbers with a new squadmate rather than using old ones that people had been hoping see make a return to the team. Of course, there was this little issue that any of the ME2 squad mates may not have survived the events of ME2. Bioware probably didn't want the game starting out in a bunch of different possible ways. I was actually surprised they brought the VS into the game so quickly... but then they kept the "branching" impact to a minimum by putting them in the hospital for the first half of the game. I liked James as a character... sparring with him was a nice touch... He should have been a possible LI for FemShep though (and not just in the Citadel DLC). Why just FemShep? I'm a bi-curious dude, and I would hella love to see what a romance with Vega would entail
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 17:15:00 GMT
Of course, there was this little issue that any of the ME2 squad mates may not have survived the events of ME2. Bioware probably didn't want the game starting out in a bunch of different possible ways. I was actually surprised they brought the VS into the game so quickly... but then they kept the "branching" impact to a minimum by putting them in the hospital for the first half of the game. I liked James as a character... sparring with him was a nice touch... He should have been a possible LI for FemShep though (and not just in the Citadel DLC). Why just FemShep? I'm a bi-curious dude, and I would hella love to see what a romance with Vega would entail Apparently Bioware doesn't do gay toggles (at least that's what another poster told me here not too long ago)... so James would be either straight or gay, but not both or either. He is a straight FemShep LI in the Citadel DLC... so that's why I said for FemShep... basically meaning that the LI part should have gone into the main game instead of just in the DLC.
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Post by jackievakarian on Nov 1, 2016 17:20:43 GMT
Why just FemShep? I'm a bi-curious dude, and I would hella love to see what a romance with Vega would entail Apparently Bioware doesn't do gay toggles (at least that's what another poster told me here not too long ago)... so James would be either straight or gay, but not both or either. He is a straight FemShep LI in the Citadel DLC... so that's why I said for FemShep... basically meaning that the LI part should have gone into the main game instead of just in the DLC. Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 2, 2016 3:56:24 GMT
I like Joker... sort of. But I don't get the huuuge love for his character, when half the time his lack of professionalism, cockiness, and poorly timed jokes just tic me off. Like the very first time we meet him, he manages to accomplish all three of the above before we even get control of Shepard. "I hate that important turian spectre, with his half assed compliments" "I'm incredible, best pilot in the galaxeh" "I don't like that spectre on MY ship (its really not your ship), watch out Anderson, Nihlus is coming!!! Wow, that Anderson's an angry old fart" Javik should have thrown him out the airlock. The cocky, wisecracking pilot trope. Don't mind in the least. Wish we could respond in kind sometimes. And pilots being possessive of their ships is also a well used trope. I guess I just don't mind Joker that much. As for Vega, yeah he turned out alright. I don't really buy the "can be dead" excuse for why ME2 squad was shafted. To the question of who would be the second squadmate until you get more, remember that not all ME2 squadmates have a set place to be. Sure Garrus is with the turians, Tali is with the Migrant Fleet, Samara is probably back in asari space etc. Others are less commitment heavy- Kasumi, Zaeed, Jacob, Jack or Thane for instance (and no, there's no reason to make him terminal yet). Have Hackett send one with you, or have them work with Liara on Mars and you meet them right away. Only requires one or two lines to explain. You can't import a save where all ME2 squadmates are dead (because Shepard himself dies in that case), I think the worst you can do is one, if you glitch the game and finish with just Kasumi and Zaeed and then do Zaeed's loyalty mission and kill him. That still requires Kasumi though. So she can meet you on Mars. Or at the very worst, you have Jenkins 2.0 that dies just before Liara comes along. Throwback to Eden Prime and all, you can even have the VS remark on it and everything.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 2, 2016 6:21:46 GMT
I actually like James Vega. I see much of myself in him. I thought he was overall hella cool, and people shit on him way too much. I like the character as well, but I would rather of had an ME2 squadmate on the roster instead Don't we more or less have the crew from ME1 in ME3? James was probably the replacement for the Virmire Victim. I suppose Javik would be a sort of replacement for Wrex, though that's a bit of a stretch. Neither had to be recruited but both had a definite spot. Of course, there's no replacement for a dead Tali or Garrus, since both could have died in ME2. Still, I think the symmetry is there, especially after reading in another post how someone viewed ME2 as kind of a detour from the main storyline.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 2, 2016 6:24:29 GMT
Why just FemShep? I'm a bi-curious dude, and I would hella love to see what a romance with Vega would entail Apparently Bioware doesn't do gay toggles (at least that's what another poster told me here not too long ago)... so James would be either straight or gay, but not both or either. He is a straight FemShep LI in the Citadel DLC... so that's why I said for FemShep... basically meaning that the LI part should have gone into the main game instead of just in the DLC. I hate to break it to you, but Kaidan will date FemShep and BroShep with equal abandon. They can't be that scared of the "gay toggles". That said, there's no reason he needed to be available for BroShep in just the same way that Traynor isn't, or that Steve isn't for FemShep.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 2, 2016 11:31:37 GMT
Don't we more or less have the crew from ME1 in ME3? We do. Its also why I call ME3:ME1 Part 2. From posts that I've read, James was put in for the new player I don't agree. He was to have a different role from what was in the released version. At least that's what I read from other posters who read the leaked script James is recruited regardless. If you mean Wrex and Javik, yes. Wrex doesn't have to be recruited in ME1. From Ashes doesn't have to be completed. Wrex only shows up in the Citadel dlc. I would guess because he was an ME1 character. And never should've been put on the roster. But because ME3 is the best place to start playing a trilogy, they were put on the roster since new players would never of known both could be dead in ME2. Look at a ME3 default playthrough. I see no symmetry. My Shepard really didn't care for the ME1 characters after learning they did a whole of nothing to make any effort to find a way to stop the reapers after the SR1 was destroyed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2016 12:09:01 GMT
I personally always saw James as a sort of replacement for Ash, in so much that they are both human soldiers, but James is more useful in the squad than Ash and having two soldiers (3 if you play Shep as a soldier) in the squad is stupid, another reason why having Kaidan the sentinel in ME3.
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Post by straykat on Nov 2, 2016 12:36:15 GMT
Don't we more or less have the crew from ME1 in ME3? I don't agree. He was to have a different role from what was in the released version. At least that's what I read from other posters who read the leaked script In a way, it was a smaller role, but more integrated. It somewhat paralleled ME1's search for Prothean beacons... where you and the VS were hunting after the same traces of evidence and running into each other/conflicting about it. Kind of like you and Saren were chasing Prothean leads in the first game. It culminated at Thessia, much like Virmire was a culmination with Saren. Javik is not a replacement for Wrex so much as a replacement for the beacon storyarc... and a possible replacement for Liara or the VS originally.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 2, 2016 13:26:42 GMT
They did that in DA2 with *everyone*, and that wasn't received well because it resulted in the - very implausible - impression that everyone's bi. I'm quite glad they ditched the idea for ME3 and DAI.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 2, 2016 14:37:50 GMT
I actually like James Vega. I see much of myself in him. I thought he was overall hella cool, and people shit on him way too much. I do think he very sweet and cute as well. He just is a bad squad mate for me to play with. That is my only issue with him. He never gets close enough to make use of the shotgun and there are other squad mates with better powers that use rifles.
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