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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 7, 2016 22:43:48 GMT
And Mass Effect is a science fiction setting, I would like to see some actual sci-fi once in a while. Yeah we get more representation for homosexuals, but any serious attempt at 'alien' elements has seen even less representation in all mainstream media. I mean if we are going to weigh which minority 'deserves' more screen time due to previous depictions of it then I would say that the non-human elements need it far more than any human outliers. And yes the quote is from a larger source, the novel Blindsight, but the whole point behind it was that here we have a non-human intelligence, with wants and desires vastly different from our own, and yet it is understandable to the audience. It sounds like programing talk because that the best way to represent this alien in terms the character talking to Sacha can understand. The Scramblers from this book are aliens with vast intelligence yet they posses no consciousness. This fundamental difference from how we humans experience things is what makes them so compelling as aliens and why they require such a logical breakdown in the quote I used. Vast intelligence without any consciousness is a contradiction. And not just because it is alien. Consciousness is formed from thought. This is the difference between a jellyfish and a goldfish. A jellyfish is simply a series of bundles of nerves that react to stimuli. A goldfish has an actual mind and is capable of thinking at least in a very limited sense. Guided mostly by instinct but as Mythbusters showed are actually capable of being trained. Be it in a very very limited way. In fact that set up is the basis of nearly all debate both in sci-fi and real world about AI and what is the key difference between a very smart machine that is capable of solving complex puzzles and a human who is also capable of solving the same complex puzzle. When you brought up this I figured you would bring up a decent example like the Crystalline Entity from the Start Trek Next Generation. A massive being so different from what is normally considered a life form. Who's only method of sustain it self involves draining planets of their life energies. Or what ever it is they used as what it absorbs. Who do to it's very nature isn't aware of what it's actions cause or capable of seeing anything else besides a source of food. Until the Enterprise manages to make contact with it in the most basic way allowing it to see them as more then just a food supply. Least till the angry lady destroys it. Not necessarily. We can assume that consciousness is the best way to evolve a society and intelligence, but that is only because we have a control group of one for reference: us. There are numerous theories and postulations by scientists that would argue that, no, consciousness is not a prerequisite for intelligence. I'll let the author of the novel we are discussing speak for himself (warning wall of text incoming):
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 7, 2016 23:36:37 GMT
Vast intelligence without any consciousness is a contradiction. And not just because it is alien. Consciousness is formed from thought. This is the difference between a jellyfish and a goldfish. A jellyfish is simply a series of bundles of nerves that react to stimuli. A goldfish has an actual mind and is capable of thinking at least in a very limited sense. Guided mostly by instinct but as Mythbusters showed are actually capable of being trained. Be it in a very very limited way. In fact that set up is the basis of nearly all debate both in sci-fi and real world about AI and what is the key difference between a very smart machine that is capable of solving complex puzzles and a human who is also capable of solving the same complex puzzle. When you brought up this I figured you would bring up a decent example like the Crystalline Entity from the Start Trek Next Generation. A massive being so different from what is normally considered a life form. Who's only method of sustain it self involves draining planets of their life energies. Or what ever it is they used as what it absorbs. Who do to it's very nature isn't aware of what it's actions cause or capable of seeing anything else besides a source of food. Until the Enterprise manages to make contact with it in the most basic way allowing it to see them as more then just a food supply. Least till the angry lady destroys it. Not necessarily. We can assume that consciousness is the best way to evolve a society and intelligence, but that is only because we have a control group of one for reference: us. There are numerous theories and postulations by scientists that would argue that, no, consciousness is not a prerequisite for intelligence. I'll let the author of the novel we are discussing speak for himself (warning wall of text incoming): So within that world what is the difference between that alien race and a super computer? Neither have a consciousness yet both have great intellect and can know vast sums of knowledge. Yet have no real guiding mind behind it. This runs into the same issues all those Santa movies you will be seeing on TV with more and more frequency. Santa is shown to be a real person and exists. Yet some how is treated like a legend. Which doesn't explain how they can rationally accept all the gifts that Santa and Santa alone leaves for people. Even if you want to take the route the parents assume the other one bought the gift. How does that explain with single parents? Or the first time they move out and live on their own and those extra gifts just show up over night. What was the experimental support link? Was it peer reviewed? What was the nature of the experiment? If your going to try and throw some real science to support the claim gives some actual stuff to back it up not just say this or say that.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Nov 7, 2016 23:40:33 GMT
^ Now, don't you bring Santa into this!
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 7, 2016 23:52:10 GMT
^ Now, don't you bring Santa into this! It is a legitimate question and one reason I just can not enjoy those kind of santa movies.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 8, 2016 0:19:58 GMT
That was the point to the main theme of that novel. What ultimately determines intelligence, and what separates our natural biochemical reactions and processes from a computer that can pass the Turning Test. And I can give a list of all the relevant references from the author's notes. I didn't feel like cluttering up my post with all this information, but if you would like to see the data: 95 Nelson, D.L., and M.M Cox. 200. Lehninger principles of biochemistry. Worth, NY, NY. 96 Prigonine, I., and G. Nicholis. 1989. Exploring Complexity. Freeman, NY. 97 Dawkins, R. 1988. The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design. Norton. 98 Pinker, S. 1997. How the mind works. WW Norton & Co., NY. 660pp. 99 Koch, C. 2004. The Quest for Consciousness: A Neurobiological Approach Roberts, Englewood, CO. 447pp. 100 McFadden, J. 2002. Synchronous firing and its influence on the brain’s electromagnetic field: evidence for an electromagnetic field theory of consciousness. J. Consciousness Studies, 9, No. 4, 2002, pp. 23–50 101 Penrose, R. 1989. The Emporer's New Mind. Oxford University Press. 102 Tononi, G., and G.M. Edelman. 1998. Consciousness and Complexity. Science 282: 1846-1851. 103 Baars, B.J. 1988. A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness. Cambridge Univ. Press, New York. 104 Hilgetag, C.C. 2004. Learning from switched-off brains. Sci. Amer. 14: 8-9. 105 Roth, G. 2004. The quest to find consciousness. Sci. Amer. 14: 32-39. 106 Pauen, M. 2004. Does free will arise freely? Sci. Amer. 14: 41-47. 107 Zimmer, C. 2003. How the mind reads other minds. Science 300:1079-1080. 108 Crick, F.H.C., and C. Koch. 2000. The unconscious homunculus. In Neural Correlates of Consciousness—Empirical and Conceptual Questions (T. Metzinger, Ed.) MIT Press, Cambridge. 109 Churchland, P.S. 2002. Self-Representation in Nervous Systems. Science 296: 308-310. 110 Miller, G. 2005. What is the biological basis of consciousness? Science 309: 79. 111 Blakeslee, S. 2003. The christmas tree in your brain. Toronto Star, 21/12/03 112 Matsumoto, K., and K. Tanaka. 2004. Conflict and Cognitive Control. Science 303: 969-970. 113 Kerns, J.G., et al. 2004. Anterior Cingulate Conflict Monitoring and Adjustments in Control. Science 303: 1023-1026. 114 Petersen, S.E. et al. 1998. The effects of practice on the functional anatomy of task performance. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 95: 853-860. 115 Nrretranders, T. 1999. The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size. Penguin Press Science. 467pp. 116 Altenmüller, E.O. 2004. Music in your head. Scientific American. 14: 24-31. 117 Helmuth, L. 2003. Fear and Trembling in the Amygdala. Science 300: 568-569. 118 Dolan, R.J. 2002. Emotion, cognition, and behavior. Science 298: 1191-1194. 119 Treffert, D.A., and G.L. Wallace. 2004. Islands of genius. Scientific American 14: 14-23. 120 Wegner, D.M. 1994. Ironic processes of mental control. Psychol. Rev. 101: 34-52. 121 Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B (DOI 10.1098/rspb.2003.2548) 122 Aiello, L., and C. Dean. 1990. An introduction to human evolutionary anatomy. Academic Press, London. 123 Gallup, G.G. (Jr.). 1997. On the rise and fall of self-conception in primates. In The Self Across Psychology-- self-recognition, self-awareness, and the Self Concept. Annals of the NY Acad. Sci. 818:4-17 124 Carstairs-McCarthy, A. 2004. Many perspectives, no concensus—a review of Language Evolution, by Christiansen & Kirby (Eds). Science 303:1299- 1300. 125 Dijksterhuis, A., et al. 2006. Science 311:1005-1007. 126Vince, G 2006. “'Sleeping on it' best for complex decisions.” Newscientist.com, www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/dn8732.html. 127 Devlin, A.M., et al. 2003. Clinical outcomes of hemispherectomy for epilepsy in childhood and adolescence Brain 126: 556-566. 128 Pulsifer, M,B., et al. 2004. The cognitive outcome of hemispherectomy in 71 children. Epilepsia. 45: 243-54.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 8, 2016 3:16:36 GMT
That was the point to the main theme of that novel. What ultimately determines intelligence, and what separates our natural biochemical reactions and processes from a computer that can pass the Turning Test. And I can give a list of all the relevant references from the author's notes. I didn't feel like cluttering up my post with all this information, but if you would like to see the data: 95 Nelson, D.L., and M.M Cox. 200. Lehninger principles of biochemistry. Worth, NY, NY. 96 Prigonine, I., and G. Nicholis. 1989. Exploring Complexity. Freeman, NY. 97 Dawkins, R. 1988. The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design. Norton. 98 Pinker, S. 1997. How the mind works. WW Norton & Co., NY. 660pp. 99 Koch, C. 2004. The Quest for Consciousness: A Neurobiological Approach Roberts, Englewood, CO. 447pp. 100 McFadden, J. 2002. Synchronous firing and its influence on the brain’s electromagnetic field: evidence for an electromagnetic field theory of consciousness. J. Consciousness Studies, 9, No. 4, 2002, pp. 23–50 101 Penrose, R. 1989. The Emporer's New Mind. Oxford University Press. 102 Tononi, G., and G.M. Edelman. 1998. Consciousness and Complexity. Science 282: 1846-1851. 103 Baars, B.J. 1988. A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness. Cambridge Univ. Press, New York. 104 Hilgetag, C.C. 2004. Learning from switched-off brains. Sci. Amer. 14: 8-9. 105 Roth, G. 2004. The quest to find consciousness. Sci. Amer. 14: 32-39. 106 Pauen, M. 2004. Does free will arise freely? Sci. Amer. 14: 41-47. 107 Zimmer, C. 2003. How the mind reads other minds. Science 300:1079-1080. 108 Crick, F.H.C., and C. Koch. 2000. The unconscious homunculus. In Neural Correlates of Consciousness—Empirical and Conceptual Questions (T. Metzinger, Ed.) MIT Press, Cambridge. 109 Churchland, P.S. 2002. Self-Representation in Nervous Systems. Science 296: 308-310. 110 Miller, G. 2005. What is the biological basis of consciousness? Science 309: 79. 111 Blakeslee, S. 2003. The christmas tree in your brain. Toronto Star, 21/12/03 112 Matsumoto, K., and K. Tanaka. 2004. Conflict and Cognitive Control. Science 303: 969-970. 113 Kerns, J.G., et al. 2004. Anterior Cingulate Conflict Monitoring and Adjustments in Control. Science 303: 1023-1026. 114 Petersen, S.E. et al. 1998. The effects of practice on the functional anatomy of task performance. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 95: 853-860. 115 Nrretranders, T. 1999. The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size. Penguin Press Science. 467pp. 116 Altenmüller, E.O. 2004. Music in your head. Scientific American. 14: 24-31. 117 Helmuth, L. 2003. Fear and Trembling in the Amygdala. Science 300: 568-569. 118 Dolan, R.J. 2002. Emotion, cognition, and behavior. Science 298: 1191-1194. 119 Treffert, D.A., and G.L. Wallace. 2004. Islands of genius. Scientific American 14: 14-23. 120 Wegner, D.M. 1994. Ironic processes of mental control. Psychol. Rev. 101: 34-52. 121 Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B (DOI 10.1098/rspb.2003.2548) 122 Aiello, L., and C. Dean. 1990. An introduction to human evolutionary anatomy. Academic Press, London. 123 Gallup, G.G. (Jr.). 1997. On the rise and fall of self-conception in primates. In The Self Across Psychology-- self-recognition, self-awareness, and the Self Concept. Annals of the NY Acad. Sci. 818:4-17 124 Carstairs-McCarthy, A. 2004. Many perspectives, no concensus—a review of Language Evolution, by Christiansen & Kirby (Eds). Science 303:1299- 1300. 125 Dijksterhuis, A., et al. 2006. Science 311:1005-1007. 126Vince, G 2006. “'Sleeping on it' best for complex decisions.” Newscientist.com, www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/dn8732.html. 127 Devlin, A.M., et al. 2003. Clinical outcomes of hemispherectomy for epilepsy in childhood and adolescence Brain 126: 556-566. 128 Pulsifer, M,B., et al. 2004. The cognitive outcome of hemispherectomy in 71 children. Epilepsia. 45: 243-54. Consciousness is the difference. The state of being awake and aware of one surroundings. You can not have vast intelligence without being aware of your surrounding. If you are not aware of the galaxy around you then you can not learn or know about chemistry or quantum physics. Because you are not aware of them. They wouldn't be aware of each other. Assuming there is more then one. They wouldn't even be able to feed themselves or reproduce if they reproduced in a non asexual way. Saying they are vast intelligence that lack consciousness is a lot like a blind, deaf, quadriplegic since birth being a music expert. An impossibility. Because even the lowly cricket is conscious. Surprisingly so and surprisingly smart for what they are. You learn this working in a pet store catching them for people to bag up for food for their reptiles. Any small opening in the vent for their air and they would escape in mass. Any attempt to scoop them would have them all migrate to the opposite diagonal side from were the scoop was. And when you have to clean the cage once a week the last handful are always the most annoying to catch because they respond to your actions and will actively avoid and dodge your hand or the scoop. Finding small cracks and spaces to hide. You know what is something with vast intelligence but no consciousnesses? A library. No I asked for links to the information you used to support this claim. Not just copy past what the author claims to have used.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 8, 2016 7:31:36 GMT
I saw this thread on main BSN and I think it's a lot of fun to see all those opinions that may not be too popular. What are your opinions about Mass Effect in general, which are not likely shared by whole fanbase? For example, maybe you find ME3 ending to be a masterpiece ? Maybe you think Krogans are bunch of pussies? Maybe you think Asari should be redesigned in the same vein as Dragon Age's elves? Share your thoughts here! I will start: - I think Mako was way better to steer than HammerHead ever was - I think first Mass Effect had the best biotics - I enjoy ME1 gunplay more than the one in ME2 - I think Meer was better voice for Shep than Hale - I really like Ashley - I think Kasumi is the best squad member in ME2 - I don't think Garrus was the best thing that ever happened to Mass Effect - I like Thessia mission - I don't mind Kai Leng - I think TIM indoctrination kind of makes sense if you read the comic - I think that Kaidan should remain straight - I think with all DLCs ME3 is the best game in the trilogy Ufff, it's like confessing sins. Your turn I'm not kidding when I say, every apparent unpopular decision you stated I share with you (apart from ME3 being the best, that's still ME1 for me) I wasn't aware that they were unpopular, weird lol.
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Post by fenris on Nov 8, 2016 8:29:19 GMT
- I think Mako was way better to steer than HammerHead ever was - I think first Mass Effect had the best biotics - I enjoy ME1 gunplay more than the one in ME2 - I think Meer was better voice for Shep than Hale - I really like Ashley - I think Kasumi is the best squad member in ME2 - I don't think Garrus was the best thing that ever happened to Mass Effect - I like Thessia mission - I don't mind Kai Leng - I think TIM indoctrination kind of makes sense if you read the comic - I think that Kaidan should remain straight - I think with all DLCs ME3 is the best game in the trilogy Ufff, it's like confessing sins. Your turn I'm not sure Kaiden was ever straight. I always thought he was Bi, even in ME1. There were some flirty moments with him and broShep in ME1 that I always took as him being Bi (also later heard they actually wanted to make him Bi and changed it in the last minute, and that they already recorded most of the conversation and had the conversation options and such. Also NO - BEST GAY ROMANCE EVER! As for the rest - some are true
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Post by themikefest on Nov 8, 2016 12:39:00 GMT
If he's not the councilor then he does what he's told by the Alliance and thus has even less autonomy. Please explain what you want him to do in either case and note, simply packing the original squadmates on a shuttle has already been debunked. Debunked? Because you say so? No. You haven't debunked anything. You've only come up with excuses. ME1 showed he's willing to do anything by unlocking the SR1. So what changed? The only real change is if he's made councilor. That right there should make it even easier for him to do something or have something done? But the council would block him? Why would they? If they believe the reapers not to exist, why would they block him? Let him waste the time and effort. Are they afraid something would be found and prove them wrong? The only obstacle preventing him from doing anything, was himself. He made no effort. The same with the other ME1 characters. They never cared. If Shepard was given the opportunity to ask them why they didn't do anything, they would all suffer from the same medical condition, cat-got-your-tongue syndrome Still has nothing to do with why no attempt wasn't made to find a way to stop the reapers
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 8, 2016 16:19:20 GMT
Debunked? Because you say so? No. You haven't debunked anything. You've only come up with excuses. ME1 showed he's willing to do anything by unlocking the SR1. So what changed? The only real change is if he's made councilor. That right there should make it even easier for him to do something or have something done? But the council would block him? Why would they? If they believe the reapers not to exist, why would they block him? Let him waste the time and effort. Are they afraid something would be found and prove them wrong? The only obstacle preventing him from doing anything, was himself. He made no effort. The same with the other ME1 characters. They never cared. If Shepard was given the opportunity to ask them why they didn't do anything, they would all suffer from the same medical condition, cat-got-your-tongue syndrome What changed was a specific and immediate cause and effect vs a nebulous "maybe" course of action that lead to no certain outcome. Unlocking the SR1 was do or die. Either Shepard gets to Saren or everybody dies. But now? He breaks protocol, maybe commits an illegal action to...? what? Go on a hunch? If he's wrong and he gets arrested for nothing, how's he going to help then? That's be worse than useless. The shuttle idea is debunked, not only because it's very possible his current position on the Citadel does not include a long range shuttle to do with as he pleases but also because there is no clear goal to use it for. What did you want him to do, send it to Eden Prime? And what then? They search the whole planet just in case there's another beacon? You do know a planet is huge right? Searching an entire planet is far beyond what a discretionary trip would allow anyone. So no, the shuttle idea is a bust, and unless you have a specific action with with a goal that will logically advance the cause and a reasonable chance of success, so is your undue blame of Anderson. The council would block him because they're complacent fear-mongering idiots that think humanity is getting to uppity and it's threatening their own petty power. They'd block him if he tried to prove the Presidium's simulated sky was blue. And on that note, if you want to claim out of universe bad writing on the whole lot, I'm with you 100%. But in-universe it is what it is, and one Alliance liason or token councilor can't do shit. Still has nothing to do with why no attempt wasn't made to find a way to stop the reapers Because "muh Feron!" Yeah, I've already admitted Liara and Garrus probably have the least justification for not doing more. Because they, unlike the rest more or less don't answer to anyone.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 16:38:15 GMT
Because "muh Feron!" Yeah, I've already admitted Liara and Garrus probably have the least justification for not doing more. Because they, unlike the rest more or less don't answer to anyone. Eh, Liara gets at least partial credit for her war with the Shadow Broker. Heo was known to be working with the Collectors, and through them, the Reapers.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 8, 2016 17:00:24 GMT
. What did you want him to do, send it to Eden Prime? And what then? Look in the general area the beacon was found. If they don't find anything, they don't find anything. Why only Eden Prime? Why not Ilos or Mars? Why would I expect them to search the whole planet? Is this a serious question? Its not a bust. You can't accept that someone says something about him because he's a character you like, so you come up with whatever to explain his lack of action. In that case, what was the purpose of having him as councilor if he can't do anything?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 8, 2016 17:12:25 GMT
Look in the general area the beacon was found. If they don't find anything, they don't find anything. Assuming a follow up investigation wasn't already done at the scene of a massive geth attack, the murder of a Spectre by another, and to try and verify Shepard's claims while they were still fresh? Why only Eden Prime? Why not Ilos or Mars? Oh so three planets to search instead of one. Much better odds. Why would I expect them to search the whole planet? I don't know, why are you sending them to Eden Prime again? Note the above point. Its not a bust. You can't accept that someone says something about him because he's a character you like, so you come up with whatever to explain his lack of action. On the contrary, it's your dislike of the character that refuses to give him any credit. A pattern you repeat with Liara and quite a few other characters. Out of curiosity is there any characters you do like, apart from Traynor? In that case, what was the purpose of having him as councilor if he can't do anything? He reinstates your Spectre status and is a sympathetic voice on the Council. Being blocked doesn't mean he can't try but try on something proven or with a decent chance of success, not just defying the council so he can look busy.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 8, 2016 18:03:42 GMT
On the contrary, it's your dislike of the character that refuses to give him any credit. On the contrary, its your like for the character to refuse to accept his failing at making any effort. Don't you do the same with Kasumi when folks say something about her you don't like? There are a lot of characters I like Zaeed, space hamster, Rupert Gardner, Ashley, James, Ken and Gabby, Primarch Victus, Wreav, Harbinger, Miranda, Mordin, Karrahe, Padok Wiks, Udina, TIM, Javik, Kal'Reegar, Kasumi, Conrad Verner. Is that good enough for you?
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Post by straykat on Nov 8, 2016 18:08:49 GMT
Anderson is a lame duck. Ain't his fault.
I like how one of the news snippets has him reaching out to Volus and Elcor or something.. just to get some support base against the bigger races.
It's like Udina says in ME3. "Humans will always be considered second rate."
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 8, 2016 18:22:17 GMT
On the contrary, its your like for the character to refuse to accept his failing at making any effort. Don't you do the same with Kasumi when folks say something about her you don't like? There are a lot of characters I like Zaeed, space hamster, Rupert Gardner, Ashley, James, Ken and Gabby, Primarch Victus, Wreav, Harbinger, Miranda, Mordin, Karrahe, Padok Wiks, Udina, TIM, Javik, Kal'Reegar, Kasumi, Conrad Verner. Is that good enough for you? You're mistaken. No one is more critical of Kasumi in ME3 than I am and I'm not much of a fan of her dossier either. She's gone from quirky, lighthearted and playful thief with a surprisingly perceptive and deep hidden emotional side to a possibly racist, one dimensional charicature of her former self. You want to talk being useless and refusing to do anything to fight the Reapers? Look no further than Kasumi in ME3. "Ugh, I don't want to fight the Reapers!"- not "I have something else I need to do", not "I'm helping in my own way", she just doesn't want to. She's the only squadmate that just straight up refuses to help. She'd rather mope or God forbid if you kept the graybox, spend her last days plugged into it like a retard. Shepard talks some sense into her and she does help out, but man, that pissed me of more than anything short of the ending, the forced emotion at Thessia and Vasir's bullshit. I like Liara but her character arc from naive archeologist to ruthless broker makes no goddamn sense. I like Miranda but the rehash of her sister rescue to the point where she's seemingly oblivious to what's happening in the galaxy apart from the first time she asks you about Earth is downright atrocious. And speaking of Vasir, I hate everything about that abomination and refuse to even consider anything else, but at least I'm honest about that. Can you honestly claim you're assessing Anderson's character fairly? I think not.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Nov 8, 2016 18:30:06 GMT
I like to think Anderson gave up his council seat to personally support Shepard during the trials. He could've thrown Shepard under the bus and stay with the council and be impartial but he didn't. I usually give him the council seat because I don't want Udina to get his dream job too quickly.
And the duty was really just counseling the human powers and dealing negotiation between species and galactic borders and authorizing colonial rights etc. They're more a representation of humanity, Anderson represent Alliance Military interest whereas Udina represent the Alliance politics. Neither of them actually hold the power itself. Even in ME3 when Udina became the most powerful man after the destruction of Arcturus Station and its still not enough.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 8, 2016 19:01:12 GMT
. Can you honestly claim you're assessing Anderson's character fairly? I think not. - he mentions Shepard's visions to the council. Did he really expect the council to fall for that? Idiot - he has to ask Shepard what he should do to unlock the SR1. What's next? Hold his hand while he walks to the little boys room? - he says its up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. He doesn't care and isn't willing to do anything. - he asks Shepard to help find a way to stop the reapers. Wait a minute. Why wasn't anything done for the 2 years Shepard was dead and the 6 months being locked up? - he says something big is headed are way. Its the reapers Anderson. What else would it be? - too bad it took the reapers to unite the galaxy. That was Shepard. That's what I meant. No it wasn't otherwise you would've said that in the first place - we have to take out that destroyer? Why Anderson? What happens if more come and take its place before we get to the beam? - After the first set of missiles are fired, he heads to Shepard. Why? That's the best time to get to the beam while the destroyer is distracted - as Shepard gets up, Harbinger is seen flying away. Over the comms, its heard that all forces have been decimated. Retreat. Regroup. Why didn't Anderson get on the comms to say negative. Get to the beam now. The reaper is gone. He did say, at the fob, no retreat, no stepping back. What changed? I really can't say anything good about the character
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Post by straykat on Nov 8, 2016 19:42:44 GMT
I guess I've personalized Anderson, so I'm biased in another way.
As Earthborn, he caught news of my Shep outrunning the cops and just causing general havoc in the city. Anderson happened to be near at the time. Where everyone saw a thug, he saw some promise. As a Colonist, he was one of the troops who helped rescue Shep as a kid.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 9, 2016 3:19:41 GMT
- he mentions Shepard's visions to the council. Did he really expect the council to fall for that? Idiot - he has to ask Shepard what he should do to unlock the SR1. What's next? Hold his hand while he walks to the little boys room? - he says its up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. He doesn't care and isn't willing to do anything. - he asks Shepard to help find a way to stop the reapers. Wait a minute. Why wasn't anything done for the 2 years Shepard was dead and the 6 months being locked up? - he says something big is headed are way. Its the reapers Anderson. What else would it be? - too bad it took the reapers to unite the galaxy. That was Shepard. That's what I meant. No it wasn't otherwise you would've said that in the first place - we have to take out that destroyer? Why Anderson? What happens if more come and take its place before we get to the beam? - After the first set of missiles are fired, he heads to Shepard. Why? That's the best time to get to the beam while the destroyer is distracted - as Shepard gets up, Harbinger is seen flying away. Over the comms, its heard that all forces have been decimated. Retreat. Regroup. Why didn't Anderson get on the comms to say negative. Get to the beam now. The reaper is gone. He did say, at the fob, no retreat, no stepping back. What changed? I really can't say anything good about the character -As opposed to offering zero reasons for his endorsement. Much better... -Nothing wrong with getting a second opinion. You can tell him to choose and he chooses the saner option. -Yes, Shepard is the chosen one. Stop me if you've heard this cliched dialog before. Again a supposition with nothing to back it up. -Because the Alliance High command is dumb and Anderson is still beholden to them. Why did Shepard accept to spend 6 months in jail instead of preparing? He's the bigger idiot. -Dumb dialog, I agree. -Without the Reapers, Shepard going "we should work together everyone! Hold hands!" would've accomplished precisely dick. Shepard united the galaxy, the Reapers were what he united them against. Both parts are equally important. -The terrain appeared to be impassable with ground vehicles, apart from the area the destroyer was guarding.. Infiltration appeared to be impossible due to the number of Reaper ground troops. The airways were out because of the destroyer. Only way in was through. -To regroup, and because they were all going the same direction? With the destroyer out of the way it should've been an relatively easy jaunt to the beam, until Harbinger was spotted going down. Then it became a mad dash. -Maybe he was unconscious for that particular order? Signal interference? Honestly you're nitpicking here. That's because you don't want to.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 9, 2016 4:06:06 GMT
I like to think Anderson gave up his council seat to personally support Shepard during the trials. He could've thrown Shepard under the bus and stay with the council and be impartial but he didn't. I usually give him the council seat because I don't want Udina to get his dream job too quickly. And the duty was really just counseling the human powers and dealing negotiation between species and galactic borders and authorizing colonial rights etc. They're more a representation of humanity, Anderson represent Alliance Military interest whereas Udina represent the Alliance politics. Neither of them actually hold the power itself. Even in ME3 when Udina became the most powerful man after the destruction of Arcturus Station and its still not enough. I won't give it to Udina because he's a backstabber. And that's consistent with ME3. Backstabber. Heck, even if Shepard chose Udina in ME1, Udina still gives him creepy looks when visiting the VS and, ta-da, backstabs him and everyone in the Cerberus coup attempt. So, no, can't support the guy. He places his political ambitions ahead of things like saving the galaxy from the Reapers.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 10, 2016 2:36:16 GMT
-As opposed to offering zero reasons for his endorsement. Much better... Endorsement for what? What does that have to do with him mentioning Shepard's visions to the council? And what does he do if no one is around? He's unsure of himself, so he needs someone to hold his hand Him saying that line speaks volumes. He didn't make any effort. The game backs it up Anderson is dumb as well. Had he gone to his superiors, they may of given him a go to search for a way to find a way to stop the reapers. A squadmate has to correct him that it was Shepard that united the galaxy. Anderson made himself look bad During the cutscene, before going through the doors, an asari, turian, krogan and salarian are shown as the destroyer passes by. They fire at the thing. It in turns kills them. Once the player regains control of Shepard, look at where the destroyer is. That's where those aliens were. Fairly close to the beam. They had no problem getting to that location. Had they not fired at the destroyer, and let go by, they may of been able to get to the beam without any problem. So there was no reason to destroy the destroyer. Just sneak a squad past the destroyer to the beam No reason to regroup. Time is not on their side. Don't worry about Shepard. Get to the beam while the destroyer is dealing with Shepard. That's all that matters. When he does show up, he's walking like he's back on the block. He moves with no purpose. He mentions Harbinger. So what. That has nothing to do with right now. Even Coates wastes time talking about whatever. Why? Can't that be said in the vehicle while heading to the beam? Look how much time was lost because of that. Unconscious? Do you really believe that? If there was any interference it didn't effect the chatter heard as Shepard got up after being shot by Harbinger. So there was no interference. No nitpicking at all. That's because the game doesn't give me a reason to
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 10:05:58 GMT
One of the few things that frustrates me about Liara and her arc over the trilogy, and this for me explains the sudden and out of the blue change in her when going from ME1 to ME2, is that the important and necessary development of her going from naive archaeologist to cold and ruthless agent and information broker, is completely absent from the games, and plunked right down in the comics, in Redemption.
Liara has hardened at the beginning of Redemption, a natural development for her given everything she went through in ME1, and losing Shepard (friend or lover, either way it's pretty obvious she loves Shepard regardless) but she still feels untested, unsure, and out of her depth when she arrives on Omega. It is her adventures with Feron, and her entanglements with Cerberus, The Collectors, and the Shadow Broker, that all help explain and show how she develops from how she was at the end of ME1, to who she is by the time we meet her in ME2. When Redemption is read and taken into account, for me at least, it helps fill in that huge developmental gap for her character between the two games. For me, it makes sense for Liara to be where she is in ME2 after reading Redemption.
This is for me my biggest argument as to why comics or any expanded material such as tie-in books should not take away such important narrative details that are needed in the games. Many people would not have picked up Redemption, and thus the reception to Liara's changed character was mixed, and very unexpected without knowing what happened during the events of Redemption.
I'm hoping none of the new books for Andromeda do this, delgating important character moments and developments to the books rather than be bothered to actually put them in the game, and give us some cohesion with character and arcs.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Nov 10, 2016 12:06:09 GMT
Grunt should have died in ME3.
Samara over Liara.
I like the Rachni and always side with them no matter what.
Mordin was great but killing him off was what made him lovable.
I'm really, actually, deadly serious when I say those Mako gifs piss me off like you wouldn't believe.
The Krogan are too OP.
They should have ended the franchise with best seats in the house and not explained the Reaper threat at all.
I think every Turian That isn't Saren or Councillor Sparatus looks stupid.
Salarians should be gay.
I like that Asari don't have ears and Quarian feet disturb me.
I prefer ME1 Geth.
Most of the loyalty missions in ME2 are lame.
Samaras loyalty mission is the second best after Mordins.
I think the interactive blasto poster was one the silliest things in ME3 endings included.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 16:17:00 GMT
I agree with Zip that most of the Loyalty Missions were so so.
Kasumi's may have been a Loyalty Mission, but that mission on Bekenstein didn't feel like a Loyalty Mission in comparison to the others. It had bigger scale, it's own solid self-contained story, it was brilliant.
The others though... for me my favourites were Tali's (I loved both the courtroom like drama of it and the personal side of things with Tali and her dad. Of all the daddy issues missions, Tali's was better than Miranda, Jacob, and Thane's), Mordin's, and Samara's, the noir feel to her Loyalty Mission was different and unique to her and Morinth's storyline.
Some of the others were ok. Miranda and Garrus's level design felt very samey, and their plots weren't as well developed for me as the others. Jacob's, Jack's and Zaeed's felt samey to me as well, in terms of level design.
Legion's was better, especially if you brought Tali for the extra dialogue.
Grunt's and Thane's were the two worst missions for me outside of the N7 missions. Thane's especially. What a chore that was to get through.
My own personal ranking of the Loyalty missions would be Kasumi, Tali, Mordin, Samara, Miranda, Legion, Garrus, Jacob, Zaeed, Jack, Grunt, Thane.
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