Unpopular opinions

I read/heard somewhere that ME1 and 2 were supposed to pay homage to different eras of movies, with ME1 doing earlier stuff, 80s sci-fi and such and ME2 being more 90s action. Music-wise it follows. I like the TRON-like music of ME1 but you can't knock the beats of ME2 either, especially not the Suicide Mission track.

ME3 is indeed over the top "feel sad damn it!" music. Didn't like in the narrative, don't like it in the audio. Otherwise I thought the Overlord theme (David's theme) was really cool.

If it's forced and unearned, yes I do.

No matter how much the music swells or baby deer cry poignant tears, I'm never going to care about some dumb kid in a vent, or the asari homeworld burning after it was the last to fall, and the more they try, the more I resent them for it.

Pro-tip: actual emotion comes from a connection that is forged between audience and the thing eliciting that connection. Mordin dying- that's sad, because we knew Mordin, we forged a connection with him. The vent kid on the hand? No one knows or cares, and why should they? Just because it's a kid? Is the pain or fear of an adult or an elderly person any less?

It also helps when the thing trying to elicit emotion isn't ruined by previous or later dumbassery. The asari get no sympathy from me because a) everyone else is already suffering and they've been digging their heels, plugging their fingers in their... whatever equivalent they have for ears and ignoring the problem even during the war. While others fought and died on alien planet or worse, the asari sat high and mighty and didn't do shit. After having more advantages heaped on them from straight up Prothean uplifting to hiding their beacon (now with hypocrisy bonus!) and they still turn out to be the most useless race to the war effort short of the salarians holding back because "muh genophage!". As for the kid he's of course ruined by his holokid successor and all the bullshit that brought as well as the unskippable aggravating dream sequences where instead of Shepard being haunted by previous losses or horrors he's faced, or you know, something he can relate to, he (and the player) is instead tortured with some faceless kid in a forest. Boo freakin hoo.

The music works when it's appropriate and there's a genuine emotional connection. But for all the times there is, I guarantee there's a time where it isn't and it's just forced drivel. And the music that should be appropriate is thus ruined.

And if it's not actually a sad scene, it's over the top and forced nonsense. The examples I gave don't have a claim to the music because they don't legitimately elicit the emotion they're supposed to. In which case the music, far from enhancing the tone, just annoys the audience. And for a game that's supposed to be "sad" about the horrors of the Reaper war, there's precious few actual sad moments in it. All of them in fact have to do with squadmates or close contacts dying. Mordin, Thane, Legion, and then if you choose: Miranda, Tali, Samara etc. We never really see the full horrors of the war (and no, one stupid kid, or moping on the Normandy over Thessia doesn't count), so from an overall perspective, ME3 doesn't really earn its sweeping "feel sad music" at all.

Wait, what? You mean to tell me there's an opinion in an opinions thread? Say it ain't so!

What was that line about one death being a tragedy, a million a statistic? Yeah, that. Yes I just quoted Stalin. No, the fact that he was a mass-murderer doesn't render his words untrue. Giant faceless tragedies removed from your immediate sphere of perception will never register the same way as a single tragedy close to home. If you want a friendlier quote about it, look up Mordin's "big picture" quotes. The closer you are to a tragedy the more you feel it. Just the way it is. Getting told about faceless millions dying carries nowhere near the emotional impact of actually seeing a sample of it, to say nothing of having a preexisting connection to some of it- and nowhere near the amount to justify the sad piano splooging of some of ME3's music.

Yeah, it's fine with some ethereal, godly-sounding vocals as long as there's still a good sense of science fiction to it and the David theme sounds kind of like Deus Ex Human Revolution/Jesper Kyd-like. But the Krogan theme or other "feel sad damn it!" music in ME3 failed to hit home IMO because it was Christopher Lennerz doing his usual summer blockbuster OST (like all Hans Zimmer music. Bombastic and lots of horns) and then added ethereal vocals and similar elements to that but it doesn't work in the simple movie-chords style as it does with synthy arpeggios or fleeting, faded chords.

In regards to whether a moment is legitimately sad or "forced sad", to me it usually comes down to how soon it is. I find that for "emotional moments" they fail and become forced if they're too heavy-handed or forced too quickly before you have the proper context or buildup to justify it. For example, I would've related more to defending Earth if they had showed us the value of Earth in Mass Effect 2186 universe and not just assume we care because we're on Earth and we're human IRL, and similarly they can't just assume I'll cry because a child dies because it's a child. It's then that it becomes obvious that the creators are trying too hard.

Yes terms that have been universally used all my life to denote someone thinking something was done wrong.  Saying it is over the top and forced is not a compliment to how something was done.  The music matches the tone of the scene perfectly. Now it might not have struck the same cord with you as it might with others. And that is fine music is completely subjective. But the stance that it is over the top and forced isn't nearly as subjective as personal enjoyment. That is rather objective and objectively the music's rather mournful tone fits you watching the Reapers literally dismantle and kill at will and the fact you are completely and utterly helpless to stop them perfectly.




Oh but little one you said:


Which I pointed out that you don't need to be shown. The game practically beats you over the head with the implications of the horrors of war. The PTSD Asari in the Hospital who tells her tale of survival that ends with her being forced to kill an unarmed helpless human girl because she was wounded and couldn't say quite. And it was kill her and live or let her live and they both die. A choice that effected her so badly if you Specter authorize her to have a gun she kills herself with it over the guilt of her actions. To the little girl in the Refugee area were she is talking to a C-Sec officer about her parents being on the shuttle right behind her because they promised.  Going from genuine hope they will be there to slowly spiraling down into denial about what happened. That her parents are really dead and won't be joining her and the C-Sec officer trying to keep her hopes up even though he knows they are gone.

Anyone with even the concept of empathy would find that sad and showing the horrors of the Reaper war.

That is why I bring up all the implied deaths. Garrus even points to the burning Palivan and states that the brightest burning spot is exactly were his father and sister live.  Shepard watches the Reapers decimate Vancouver. Effortlessly killing thousands in the first few minutes of their invasion. Knowing the same thing is happening world wide.  Thessia which stood for centuries as a place of learning, peace and culture being relentlessly assaulted by the Reapers and taken over. Even the revelation that they were hiding a Prothean Super Computer doesn't change what the planet represents and had represented for thousands of years when humans were still sailing wooden boats across the ocean and burning each other at the stake because they thought a mental illness was a demon possession.

The kid is very symbolic in the game. That one kid at least as far as Shepard is concerned represents all the millions of innocent lives lost that he could not protect. The millions of innocents that Shepard failed to protect and failed to save. And you calling him one stupid kid shows the absolutely blindness to what was being shown. The concept of sight doesn't even exist for you at the moment.

And to counter my statement about the millions of deaths that happen that the game constantly and practically beats you over the head with. You counter by trying to evoke Stalin. The guy who would force poorly armed and trained prisoners to the front lines to fight. With the actual military behind them with orders to shoot any prisoners who attempt to flee the front line. Because they had to fight to the death. The guy who if he so much as thought you were not his biggest fan would cause you to disappear faster then you could blink. To validate your stance of well I don't know all these millions of people so why should I give a care if they live or die.  Which is the mentality of a sociopath.  As to why the game doesn't deserve to be considered sad.


The irony of you complaining about fallacies is so thick I could walk on it. And the part about unfounded personal judgements left me laughing so hard my sides hurt. Literally everything you have said is unfounded personal judgement. So to complain or call someone out about that shows a total lack of self awareness of your own actions that boarders on scary.

Have you even played this game? Or are you just on here complaining about it after reading a wiki page about the game?



at 6:26 the Vancouver HQ is looking at video feeds from multiple areas across the planet showing the Reapers attacking

7:20 shows a Reaper descending from the sky, firing their beam across the ground to the Alliance HQ that hits the building and kills everyone but Shepard and Anderson.

8:13 shows a Reaper standing well above the surrounding buildings with a couple of them on fire with structural damage to them. Filled with the back ground screams of a woman.

8:34 shows a Reaper firing directly at the base of a building causing it to collapse on it self.

9:48 shows a Reaper beam sweeping across the buildings just on the other side of the river.

10: 23 shows the Reaper from 7:20 firing a beam right at the building Shepard and Anderson are standing on.

11:51 shows the full extent of the damage from said beam on the internal structure of the building.

13:11 Shows a new Reaper descending from space firing on a small circular island as it touches down.

13:33 Shows the Reapers effortlessly destroying an Alliance Cruiser sending out a massive shock wave as it's engines exploded. Anyone close to that ship like say on the ground under it is now dead from the shock wave.

15:23 Show the smoldering wreckage of buildings that have been destroyed thanks to the Reaper's assault

20:48 shows scared civilians and child you saw earlier heading towards evacuation ships while Alliance Soldiers keep the Cannibals at bay

21:24 Shows the Reaper taking 2 shots to destroy the evac shuttle before turning to fire at the ground team shooting at it.

21:51 Shows a couple of Reapers standing on the ground with countless attack fire coming from the Alliance while the city of Vancouver is smoldering and wrecked

22:13 Shows the Normandy flying though the wreckage of Alliance ships as it reenters the Earth's orbit. Which unless it burns up completely when it impacts it will only cause more chaos, death and destruction.

I highly suggest you actually play the game before coming to the forums to complain about. It really helps your credibility when you make statements.  Because your statement that you don't watch the Reapers kill and dismantle at will shows you must have not even played the game.

Is is pride? Arrogance? What has caused you to open your mouth and insert your foot so far down your throat that when you sit down you are standing on leg?


And yet those characters are right out in the open not hidden from anyone. If you choose to ignore them and simply focus on speed running the game that is your choice. But you also don't get to complain when you miss stuff.

Also a ton of it is so obvious in front of you:


That is Primarch Victus our right saying the causality reports of the Reaper's attack on Palivan are in the millions.  You don't need to know ever single one of them to be able to arrive at the conclusion that millions of deaths isn't all sun shine, butterflies and rainbow pooing unicorns.



Found it for you



James asks how bad is it and Garrus directly responds to 3 million lost the first day. 5 million the second. Shepard asks how the military is holding up and is told to look around. When Shepard responds that they are putting up a good fight. Garrus asks how long before the fight is kicked out of you.  Which feeds right into the over all set up of how sad this game is and how the music fits it.

And yet Thessia has been for thousands of years a beacon to the rest of the galaxy. A beacon that is currently burning and being destroyed by the Reapers. It's citizens being harvested and turned into Banshees. The loss of that beacon is a major moral blow to the rest of the galaxy. The loss of the Element Zero deposits on the planet is an equally major strategic blow.

And your next bit shows you you lack even the concept of compassion or empathy. Funny thing about soldiers even if they can't protect someone they still feel the responsibility of protecting them.  Least the good ones do. There are fuck ups in every group.  Shepard is one of those who feels every life lost is his fault for failing to protect them. A mentality that actually fits with the mentality of many a soldier pretty well.  As for the rest of the galaxy they are only stupid because our PoV allows us to see everything. The rest of the galaxy lacks the same knowledge and details Shepard and the gamer has.  Shepard is the equivalent of that guy with a tin foil hat holding a sign about the world ending tomorrow. Every claim he has lacks any proof to back it up other then taking him at his word.

I mean do you not realize or understand that the entire rest of the galaxy is not privy to the same information you see as Shepard?  That as far as they know it is just his word that the Reapers exist and that they are coming.  The only reason the Alliance even takes anything he said seriously is because Shepard is friends with  Anderson and Hackett. Two very high ranked people in the Alliance.  For all other races how ever he is that guy that is standing on the street corner yelling about how the dark lord Cthulhu is coming. And his proof is that he saw it himself and he totally isn't lying.

And yet again you miss the point of what the kid represents in his dreams. But again you have shown complete lack of understanding of empathy or compassion. The kid was someone that Shepard would watch play from his window. Who was complete innocence the physical embodiment of who he as a solider is suppose to protect and save. Who he failed to save and who he had to watch get blown out of the sky by the Reapers.  Who has the continual dream  of himself chasing after the kid trying to save him and each time the kid burns. With the final sequence showing the kid finally being got by Shepard only to watch them both burn.  Granted after the 4th or 5th time of playing the game it gets boring to watch. But the over all intent and symbolism in it is fairly obvious and fits with the over all theme.


You just love to keep pulling pot called the kettle black don't you?

gothboy: browser messed up during reply. Probably for the best as your inane brand of... discourse is best served in small doses. I only hope you haven't seen X Men Apocalypse, or if you did, the large scale faceless destruction of buildings there too didn't cause you undue stress. I mean, my God the property damage! When will humanity learn, large scale vandalism isn't a victimless crime?

Anyway, have fun kiddo.

I don't think the holokid is the sole reason the kid failed at doing what the devs wanted him to do, though the taint it left is undeniable. And "missing it" has nothing to do with it. We didn't miss it, we rejected it.

Basically, it comes down to the set up. If the kid is expected to elicit an emotional reaction from the audience, then we have to spend more than two minutes with him. Shepard may have been watching that kid for six months (kinda creepy when put that way) and if he had nothing else going for him in lockup (crap, that's not better) he may well have formed some kind of attachment to him. But we didn't. So shoving him down our throats with "look a kid, how whimsical, love him love him! oh now he's dead, mourn him mourn him!" as the man on the piano breaks himself to unleash the tears really doesn't work. Then there's the dream sequences which are repetitive and annoying due in no small part to the slow movement (yes it's dreamlike but that doesn't mean it's fun to play). And finally it's the forced nature of it, not just from what I said above but also for setting something as canon for Shepard that the player didn't choose. Some Shepards may respond to the kid, others may not. Why is a Renegade dickhole Shepard, who's gunned down everyone he could and laughed about it suddenly a wreck because of this kid? How does that make sense? Yes that is one story you could tell, but not the story some people wanted. So it ties in to the more general complaint of forced direction of a character we're supposed to be roleplaying.

There's also the aspect of "why the kid" when we have plenty of others things to torture Shepard with, things already established and closer to home than the kid. Why not do something with Shepard's background, or the squadmate lost at Virmire or squadmates potentially lost on the SM or get really freaky like I said above and make it more of a psychological trip? I highly recommend checking out the Darkness games for how to do this kind of thing right. Both the going crazy and the setting up of the emotional gutpunch (which is honestly one of the most potent emotional moments I've ever seen in a game).

Getting back to the music, I suppose I can admit the majority of my beef with it is just the taint of ME3's problems. I don't have an issue with the grim theme and tone throughout. I think it could've been done better. But that piano theme is now the holokid's theme, it's the ending's theme and it's the theme of "art and everything wrong with the series. So I don't care for it. Other pieces like the Tuchanka music don't have this issue, but they haven't registered with me beyond those scenes either. At best I'd be ambivalent towards them. They work in their spot but I don't worry about them afterwards.

Funny thing about that there are multiple ways to deal with large scale destruction. Most movies like X Men Apocalypse out right ignore the massive death and destruction. It acts at best as tension building or plot device. Or are out right ignored like when Civil War stated that only 76 people were killed by the attack during Avengers.  Even though fans showed the property damage of that attack would have been in the billions of dollars. In fact according to Civil War despite several wide scale crisis only 117 people have in total died in the Marvel universe.  Which for reference the Twin Towers attack killed a little over 2,000 people.

Even movies like 2012 with the mutated neutrinos heating up the planet's core over the space of a few weeks then never again. Deaths and destruction of entire continents are treated as nothing more then set pieces.

Mass Effect 3 in particular handles that a little bit different.  While most movies will gloss over the wide spread death and destruction caused by what ever it is. Or out right retcon the numbers to a fraction of what they really should have been.  Mass Effect 3 draws attention to the wide spread death and destruction constantly. While they don't always show every death they make no effort to hide or gloss over what is happening. And they make characters react and respond to it.



One of the best I think starts at 1:12. Were Garrus out right points out how heavy their casualties are with the war. And the effect of that death and destruction is obviously effecting Garrus.

Did I care about the kid being killed? No more than seeing the others on the shuttles being killed.

During the time Shepard was talking with the kid, what was Anderson doing? About 30 seconds or more passed before he tells Shepard we got to go. From his angle, he wouldn't see the kid, but I'm surprised that he didn't ask why Shepard was looking in the vent? I found it odd the kid saying you can't help me. I know kids say all kinds of things, but that seemed odd he would say that.

Next the kid is seen climbing into the shuttle. I would be curious how he ended up there without any problem. Why is no one helping the kid in the shuttle? Is this kid in Shepard's head? The destroyer destroys both shuttles. I wonder why it shot at those and not at the Normandy. Was I suppose to feel all sad that the kid went boom? No more sadder than the others that were killed as well.

Along comes the dreams. The kid is in the dreams. Why? I have no connection to the kid. If anything a Shepard could already be experiencing dreams before ME1 depending on the background chosen. A colonist Shepard would have nightmares about seen his/her family and friends being killed. Or maybe a Shepard would have nightmares about Ashley/Kaidan dying on Virmire. Whatever. I just headcannon my Shepard dreaming about being at a Led Zeppelin concert.

Once Shepard gets to lala land, guess who shows up? That's right. The kid from the dreams and from Vancouver. Except it controls the reapers. Yeah. I guess Shepard really hit her/his head pretty damn good. Why did the thing take the form of a human child? If only Shepard could ask that question. Would it of been better if the thing took the form of a dead character that was close to Shepard? Say Ashley/Kaidan who died on Virmire?

The other thing is that this is the only kid seen in the trilogy and even then only Shepard sees him. Whatever. Like I said. I wasn't really that sad about him being killed.

With other character in the game that can die. None of them I wasn't too sad about since a lot of them didn't need to die.

As far as the Thessia thing goes. Yeah. Nothing to feel sad about.

It was sad seeing Earth on fire when heading to London. I didn't really feel sad about seeing Palaven on fire. If I was a turian I might.

The saddest thing is seeing Earth being scorched, if ems is below 1750 and destroy is chosen, the first time I did a playthrough like that.

 I should add another. It was sad that Harbinger, one of the best characters in the trilogy, got reduced to a few moments near the end of ME3. Too bad he
didn't play a larger role in ME3.

With the music in the game. It didn't bother me.

I just like how Jack's character evolves....especially if she's romanced, because you get to see a softer side.
And Harbinger was a great and worthwhile enemy....unlike Cerberus fodder and TIM. It's a shame they listened to Fan complaints and decided to make him 'just another Reaper' in ME:3.......I really missed his chatter.

Not once did I feel that humanity was the underdog in all of the Mass Effect titles; despite BioWare's narrative instance that we were.

Like the whole narrative push behind humanity's acceptance on the Council "Oh no, we only have an embassy on the Citadel after thirty years of being a part of galactic society and are only just now being seriously considered for Council/Spectre status. Look at how much of an underdog we are!" Meanwhile, the Elcor and Volus are having to share a single embassy office despite both of them being part of galactic society for hundreds of years, and neither of them are even being jokingly considered for Council/Spectre status.

This drive to showcase us as the "little guy" gets even more ridiculous when you start to add in human supremacist factions like Cerberus or Terra Firma. After the narrative shows humanity single handedly beating every single species at their own game (i.e. better financial success than the Volus, more military acumen then the Turians, etc.) we have an in-game faction screaming at Shepard to push for "human dominance"; we are already dominating.