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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 1, 2016 2:50:05 GMT
How? Until the very end of the game you don't even know that Harbinger is a Reaper. You think he is the Collector Captain. And all he does it send waves of disposable Reaper tech augmented disposable troops towards Shepard. Repeating the same 2 dozen lines over and over again. Which is exactly what TIM does in ME 3. While I didn't know he was a Reaper during my first play-through.....After 310 hours, I certainly know now. And would rather fight him and the Collectors, over TIM and his Cannon fodder clones. At least the Collectors actually put up a good fight, and have Killed me on more than one occasion. Which is more than can be said for Cerberus. And that is kind of the point. They both do the exact something in both games. And both groups have been equally easy and equally challenging depending on difficulty level. |
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Post by midnightwolf on Dec 1, 2016 2:58:52 GMT
While I didn't know he was a Reaper during my first play-through.....After 310 hours, I certainly know now. And would rather fight him and the Collectors, over TIM and his Cannon fodder clones. At least the Collectors actually put up a good fight, and have Killed me on more than one occasion. Which is more than can be said for Cerberus. And that is kind of the point. They both do the exact something in both games. And both groups have been equally easy and equally challenging depending on difficulty level. The same can be said for any game. Take DA:O for example. All you do is fight wave after wave of Darkspawn. DA:2 it's wave after wave of enemies which literally fallout of the sky. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy fighting the Spawn more, JUST because the second game threw yet more cannon fodder in different outfits at me. |
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Post by themikefest on Dec 1, 2016 3:44:27 GMT
While I didn't know he was a Reaper during my first play-through.....After 310 hours, I certainly know now. And would rather fight him and the Collectors, over TIM and his Cannon fodder clones. At least the Collectors actually put up a good fight, and have Killed me on more than one occasion. Which is more than can be said for Cerberus. I didn't mind fighting the Cerberus goons or what I like to call them, The Keystone Cops. The best part is hearing TAKING CASUALTIES |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 16:09:29 GMT
Haven't been on here in a while...
Thought I'd pop in see how things are on this thread, since there have been some pretty cool discussions...
*sees that gothpunkboy and Crutch Cricket are still at it*
Toodle bye.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 2, 2016 16:25:30 GMT
Haven't been on here in a while... Thought I'd pop in see how things are on this thread, since there have been some pretty cool discussions... *sees that gothpunkboy and Crutch Cricket are still at it* Toodle bye. Yes well, I think I've been a glutton for punishment (read: wasting my time) in that department long enough. Time for something new, I think. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 5, 2016 3:47:50 GMT
And that is kind of the point. They both do the exact something in both games. And both groups have been equally easy and equally challenging depending on difficulty level. The same can be said for any game. Take DA:O for example. All you do is fight wave after wave of Darkspawn. DA:2 it's wave after wave of enemies which literally fallout of the sky. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy fighting the Spawn more, JUST because the second game threw yet more cannon fodder in different outfits at me. Not so much for this game though due to the fact both Harbinger (until the literal end of the game) and TIM do the exact same thing. Game play perspective they are exactly the same. Much the same Saren was with Geth in ME 1. Game play wise they are almost identical in function as well. Drone= Assault Trooper Assassin= Nemesis Collector Guardians= Centurions/Phantom Pretorians=Atlas Scions=Engineer Out side of ME3's MP the collector troop that has been the most threat to me is Scions and only them. Simply because of their range attacks. Engineers are equally deadly to me specifically because of those damn turrets. Which at higher level can and will mow you down without mercy. |
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Post by vit246 on Dec 18, 2016 18:14:10 GMT
Quarians did nothing wrong.
It has always been a natural and understandable reaction to AI in fiction.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 19, 2016 5:23:51 GMT
Quarians did nothing wrong. It has always been a natural and understandable reaction to AI in fiction. And in real life. The problem is Bioware kind of wrote themselves into a corner with AI's. They are very inconsistent with AI's capabilities and often dumb them down unless it is plot related. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 19, 2016 17:10:49 GMT
Quarians did nothing wrong. It has always been a natural and understandable reaction to AI in fiction. Ehh.... If my computer stopped responding to commands and asking if it had a soul I'd probably turn it off, maybe even violently so. If everyone's computers started doing that, maybe a new approach is required. One approach that certainly wouldn't work is going around shooting everyone who for one reason or another befriended their computers in the head. It all boils down to communication and/or an unwillingness to accept a change of reality. How many please for mercy and other demonstrations of higher intellect do you need before you stop trying to correct a maintenance issue and start dealing with the new form of life in your midst? That being said hindsight's 20/20 and it's easier to judge from the outside than from the inside. So... there's a give and take there. |
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Post by vit246 on Dec 19, 2016 19:37:50 GMT
Ehh.... If my computer stopped responding to commands and asking if it had a soul I'd probably turn it off, maybe even violently so. If everyone's computers started doing that, maybe a new approach is required. One approach that certainly wouldn't work is going around shooting everyone who for one reason or another befriended their computers in the head. It all boils down to communication and/or an unwillingness to accept a change of reality. How many please for mercy and other demonstrations of higher intellect do you need before you stop trying to correct a maintenance issue and start dealing with the new form of life in your midst? That being said hindsight's 20/20 and it's easier to judge from the outside than from the inside. So... there's a give and take there. And this is the part where Bioware gives such a one-sided emotionally manipulative Geth perspective to a human outsider who holds their fate in his hands. Conveniently Bioware leaves out the other implications of the Geth being "self-aware" 1. They were part of the civilian and military infrastructure. They were never unarmed. Disregard the video of a Geth picking up a sniper rifle. 2. They are a machine intelligence. They don't think like organics. Who knows what they're thinking and what decisions they might make based on their own logic. "Organics must die. Skynet Mode." 3. It violates Council Law. What if the Council Races find out? Will they impose harsh economic, political, and military sanctions on the Quarians? Declare war? So many headaches to deal with. Shut them all down and return to normalcy. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 19, 2016 20:23:08 GMT
And this is the part where Bioware gives such a one-sided emotionally manipulative Geth perspective to a human outsider who holds their fate in his hands. Conveniently Bioware leaves out the other implications of the Geth being "self-aware" 1. They were part of the civilian and military infrastructure. They were never unarmed. Disregard the video of a Geth picking up a sniper rifle. 2. They are a machine intelligence. They don't think like organics. Who knows what they're thinking and what decisions they might make based on their own logic. "Organics must die. Skynet Mode." 3. It violates Council Law. What if the Council Races find out? Will they impose harsh economic, political, and military sanctions on the Quarians? Declare war? So many headaches to deal with. Shut them all down and return to normalcy. 1. A server in the Pentagon is "part of military infrastructure". Is it packing heat? A stoplight is part of the civilian infrastructure. Is it again, liable to bust a cap in one's ass? Your assumption that all geth were immediately combat ready doesn't follow. 2. That's fear mongering. Who know what they're thinking? Well what are you doing to find out? Taking a sledgehammer to every computer you see will not clarify anything. 3. Actually it doesn't. The Council forbids AI research but the geth aren't specifically created AI research. They're emergent AI from a multitude of non-sentient programs networked together. If the geth situation hadn't escalated to a war, the case could've been in court for years. A species can also leave the Council with practically zero repercussions (see: Batarians). Finally the combined power of the geth and quarians would dominate every other galactic player short of the Reapers, rachni or pre-genophage krogan (assuming they're armed and supplied by other races). This is again hindsight, but still, Council censure would be the least of their worries. |
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Post by shechinah on Dec 19, 2016 21:00:50 GMT
Wasn't the Council's ban on AI creation due to what happened with the Geth? If so then it would not be in effect during the time where the Geth began developing a sense of self-awareness.
I can't quite remember and I can't check the Wikipedia at the moment. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 19, 2016 21:08:58 GMT
Wasn't the Council's ban on AI creation due to what happened with the Geth? If so then it would not be in effect during the time where the Geth began developing a sense of self-awareness.
I can't quite remember and I can't check the Wikipedia at the moment. The ME wiki says wariness about AI predates the geth but I can't find any info on the specific law. So, not sure actually. |
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Post by shechinah on Dec 19, 2016 21:15:58 GMT
Wasn't the Council's ban on AI creation due to what happened with the Geth? If so then it would not be in effect during the time where the Geth began developing a sense of self-awareness.
I can't quite remember and I can't check the Wikipedia at the moment. The ME wiki says wariness about AI predates the geth but I can't find any info on the specific law. So, not sure actually. I think it's mentioned in one of Tali's conversations in ME1. I'll have to check when I have the time. It should be on Youtube. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 20, 2016 2:03:31 GMT
The ME wiki says wariness about AI predates the geth but I can't find any info on the specific law. So, not sure actually. I think it's mentioned in one of Tali's conversations in ME1. I'll have to check when I have the time. It should be on Youtube. Tali mentions the Council Banned AI research. But the Quarians got around that ban by not actually attempting to create AI's. Just very advanced VIs. If humans have it in their pop culture the fear of AI uprising then it stands to reason other races would have similar issue. Combine with possible data gleamed from Prothean artifacts. The ban isn't surprising. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 20, 2016 19:51:23 GMT
I didn't hate Diana Allers. Apparently, it's a thing that people just don't like her. I had no problem.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 20, 2016 20:08:49 GMT
I didn't hate Diana Allers. Apparently, it's a thing that people just don't like her. I had no problem. Never understood the hate for her myself. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 21, 2016 6:10:22 GMT
I didn't hate Diana Allers. Apparently, it's a thing that people just don't like her. I had no problem. There are plenty of negatives about her. Chobot not really doing a good job with the acting, the horrible face mapping and of course the obvious IGN bribe and what it cost us in terms of better established characters like Emily Wong and Al Jilani. Still though, I thought she did ok and her role (war reported on the Normandy) had potential. Never kicked her off my ship, gave her good interviews, banged her. Win-win  I was also the guy who made a support thread for her the moment we had confirmation of her character back on the old character boards. Didn't go so well lol. But yeah, people do overreact to her. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 21, 2016 6:48:59 GMT
I'm aware that there was some controversy over the choice of voice actress but since I only picked up ME in early 2016 it wasn't something I was invested in. Also, I don't follow a lot of the game reviewers. I admit, I wish we'd seen Emily Wong return but she wasn't in ME2, either. In many ways, she would have made more sense. That said, Allers is specifically a war reporter with Alliance clearance (things Wong probably didn't have and Al-Jilani definitely didn't) so her role was an entirely new one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 12:44:40 GMT
I'm aware that there was some controversy over the choice of voice actress but since I only picked up ME in early 2016 it wasn't something I was invested in. Also, I don't follow a lot of the game reviewers. I admit, I wish we'd seen Emily Wong return but she wasn't in ME2, either. In many ways, she would have made more sense. That said, Allers is specifically a war reporter with Alliance clearance (things Wong probably didn't have and Al-Jilani definitely didn't) so her role was an entirely new one. Emily Wong did have some voiced lines in ME2. You can hear them by accessing the Galactic News terminal on the wall of the Citadel nearest Citadel Souvenirs. I would have loved to have scene Shepard take Al-Jilani on board the ship and potentially eventually overcome their early differences and become good friends with here or even become her LI (for either gender of Shepard, since she is shown dancing among women in LOtSB anyways). As for clearance... Shepard could have always used "Spectre authority" to take either Wong or Al-Jilani on board. However, I really have nothing against Chabot's performance and I just head canon the poor face mapping as Allers being a "not so beautiful" person who made it in the media despite her appearance. I would have like a little more interactive and post-romance scene"romantic" dialogue between them. I do like that, regardless, she's will to give Shepard a "Beckenstein wake" if he/she doesn't make it through the final battle and, when I get the breath ending, I often imagine Shepard slapping on a ton of medi-gel and recovering enough that he/she just eventually turns up just in time to attend his/her own wake (I saw a play once that uses that premise of the deceased walking in alive on their own wake. The audience were attendees at the wake... It was great fun.) |
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Dec 22, 2016 16:20:07 GMT
I find LOTSB kind of dull and overrated, for a number of reasons:
1) No meaningful decisions. In fact, there's only one decision at all - what to do about the hostage situation at the party, with the only difference being whether you end up without your heavy weapons for a bit and whether or not the hostage is wounded.
2) Weak, bland dialogue choices for responding to Vasir's accusations about Cerberus.
3) Some Renegade railroading - Shepard can't respond to the civilians asking for help after the tower explosion, helping Illium security with the remaining mercs isn't an option, and the car chase causes a lot of collateral mayhem and destruction even if the vehicles are unmanned (I did look once and didn't see any drivers - not sure whether that's intentional or just lazy animation).
4) The combat while waiting for the door to unlock at the Broker's base drags on to the point of tedium, and the quips from Liara and Shepard aren't particularly in-character.
5) The fight with the Broker is just about the dumbest boss fight ever. Liara provokes him with a borderline-racist comment about the Yahg, the flying furniture always knocks out your other squad member even if it's Grunt or Legion, Shepard tries to defeat a Yahg by punching him, and the Broker just stands there while Shepard and Liara stop for a strategy chat in the middle of the room with no cover at all.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Dec 22, 2016 19:51:21 GMT
I find LOTSB kind of dull and overrated, for a number of reasons: 1) No meaningful decisions. In fact, there's only one decision at all - what to do about the hostage situation at the party, with the only difference being whether you end up without your heavy weapons for a bit and whether or not the hostage is wounded. 2) Weak, bland dialogue choices for responding to Vasir's accusations about Cerberus. 3) Some Renegade railroading - Shepard can't respond to the civilians asking for help after the tower explosion, helping Illium security with the remaining mercs isn't an option, and the car chase causes a lot of collateral mayhem and destruction even if the vehicles are unmanned (I did look once and didn't see any drivers - not sure whether that's intentional or just lazy animation). 4) The combat while waiting for the door to unlock at the Broker's base drags on to the point of tedium, and the quips from Liara and Shepard aren't particularly in-character. 5) The fight with the Broker is just about the dumbest boss fight ever. Liara provokes him with a borderline-racist comment about the Yahg, the flying furniture always knocks out your other squad member even if it's Grunt or Legion, Shepard tries to defeat a Yahg by punching him, and the Broker just stands there while Shepard and Liara stop for a strategy chat in the middle of the room with no cover at all. Liked especially for number two. I wouldn't feel as psychotically homicidal towards even the mention of that abominable piece of shit asari bitch if we could properly shut her down. Though it still would not be enough unless we were also able to fill her useless pathetic corpse with lead (or whatever we're firing) until the ammo ran dry (note, ammo, not thermal clips). Otherwise Shepard's enhancements do allow him to stand toe to toe with the Yahg so there's some mitigation to the ridiculousness. Doesn't excuse the cheap take out of the second squadmate, or indeed their utter superfluousness throughout the majority of the DLC though. |
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Post by themikefest on Dec 22, 2016 19:52:01 GMT
I find LOTSB kind of dull and overrated, for a number of reasons: For me, its the worse dlc. Too bad there wasn't a renegade version. After Vasir is dead, 3 paragon interrupts appear. Why couldn't there be 3 renegade interrupts? Renegade interrupt #1 Shepard: Before I do anything, you need to answer a couple of questions. Did you make any effort to let anyone know my body was handed to Cerberus? T'soni: I...ahh....I..... renegade interrupt #2 Shepard: Why do you have my armor on display in your apartment like its some kind of prize? T'soni: Uhmm....I..Its not.... renegade interrupt #3 Shepard: If you can't answer those questions, I will leave you to do whatever. T'soni: I...don't... Shepard: That's what I thought. You suffer from cat-got-your-tongue syndrome. You might want to see a doctor about that. I regret not throwing you in that volcano. One last thing. I never want to see you again. Yes they were especially for a Shepard who didn't care about the asari That bothered me. If Garrus, Jacob, Miranda, Tali, Thane and Jack are your LI, Shepard chooses to protect the asari instead. I guess that's Bioware's way of saying the asari is more important than the LI. If I was one of the LI, I would end the relationship right away since its obvious that Shepard never cared. The other thing is why is there two versions of how Liara has Shepard's dogtags? I like Bioware to answer that one. |
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Dec 22, 2016 20:33:44 GMT
Too bad there wasn't a renegade version. After Vasir is dead, 3 paragon interrupts appear. Why couldn't there be 3 renegade interrupts? I think this is just one of the instances where Paragon/Renegade doesn't work all that well. The dynamic that Bioware seemed to be aiming for in that scene is that Shepard can be bothered by Liara's relatively cold and ruthless attitude (in which case you can use the Paragon interrupts) or not really mind or feel like arguing about it (in which case you get some default Renegade-ish dialogue). But there are other issues that were potentially worth discussing in addition to that. It really should have been a regular dialogue wheel scene instead. I also wasn't sure what was the point. Why can't the second squadmate just participate in the battle like s/he has through the rest of the mission? They could still find a way to have it culminate with the Broker's shield exploding or whatever it is that happens at the end there. Though this was a problem with most of the Mass Effect DLCs until ME3 came along. At best, one of the two squadmates was "featured" and would have some dialogue, e.g. Zaeed's loyalty mission or Liara in LOTSB, and at worst, neither squadmate would have any verbal reactions to anything or even seem to remember that the mission took place once it was over. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 22, 2016 21:30:51 GMT
With the danger of repeating myself from a few pages ago, I'll say this having recently replayed parts of ME3.
ME3 isn't just bad because of the ending. The ending and all scenes featuring the kid were certainly, shockingly bad and out of place for a Mass Effect game, but in the end all of ME3 was disappointing in a big way, including the Tuchanka arc on certain levels. When even the best part of the game has a deus ex machina contrivance you know you have a lacklustre story. The dramatic structure of Tuchanka may be perfect, but the convenience of the Shroud which we have never heard of before or some legendary Thresher Maw known as "the mother of all thresher maws" is present on the same side of a huuuuuuge fuckin' planet that we need to cure the Genophage AND kill a Reaper, that's a bunch of hamfisted BS. Mordin also contradicts himself from ME2. It's believable if you fill in some blanks your self, but it's still a 180 of his previous characterization and a contrivance.
A story shouldn't have to explain why it introduces certain elements. The Shroud is not introduced in the same way as good plot elements like the Beacon in ME1 or Sovereign or any of those things becuase it's introduced on a whim via dialogue and its effect is designed around the plot the story needs and not vice versa. The beacon in ME1 may also have been designed around a needed plot but it was done so in the planning stages before the story had begun its writing whereas ME3 just blatantly inserts new lore on a whim whenever it pleases and conveniently makes characters turn around like the flip of a switch because it creates an artificially arranged resolution-arc for them.
And that's also why as much as I consider him one of the better writers, I don't have an admiration for John Dombrow's writing. He gets drama right, but his writing is filled with handwaves or bad writing cliches and the tone of his writing is too Marvel-esque with one-liners and lines like "Had to be me, someone else might've gotten it wrong" or "36.1" that he keeps repeating for his characters because somehow that makes it really deep like in a Christopher Nolan movie when they hammer the themes down or something. Repetition is only good if it also feels natural, which it doesn't here.
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