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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 22, 2016 23:01:08 GMT
When even the best part of the game has a deus ex machina contrivance you know you have a lacklustre story. Can I introduce you to The Conduit, Liara's Mother being able to break indoctrination long enough to tell them about Mu Relay, Prothean VI having a code that can block a Reaper from accessing an area of the Citadel the Protheans didn't even know existed until the Reapers were so far up their anus they were throwing up Collectors, a glorified husk being destroyed is some how enough to short circuit and entire Reaper leaving them wide open to be killed by ships incapable of killing them other wise. A race of synthetic AI's suddenly developing a Religion and instantly being manipulated by said religious views into killing any "heathen" deemed fit to kill by their "God". Or the simple fact that Saren had no need for the Conduit due to his position of power and authority as a well known and respected Black Ops person. ME 3 might have issues but at least it doesn't render it's entire plot as redundant and pointless within the first 20 minutes of the game. Then can I introduce you to the Collectors and their ship who was able to tear into the Normandy like paper. The existence of that ship and the others like it would have been a major help for the Battle of the Citadel providing even more troops and more powerful ships which would all but ensure Sovereign's victory. Cut to Shepard being killed because Joker felt like being an idiot for plot related reasons. Then he is magically revived despite asphyxiation and reentry to a planet. Not done by the best and the brightest of the galaxy to bring the hero back. But by Cerberus a previously small rouge black ops team that now has the staff, funding and technology to rival any other race in existence even though they are hated and wanted by pretty much everyone. Is capable of creating a fully function AI using Reaper Tech salvaged from Sovereign and yet is some how able to create blocks that said AI is incapable of altering. The Reapers despite being all about secrecy and hiding their existence to the point no cycle sees or even suspects they exist until they are harvesting them manages to forget about an entire Reaper just floating in space. For one if not multiple cycles. The dead Reaper is still capable of indoctrination yet at an uncontrolled level and the Cerberus scientists are able to function OK for the months that would be needed to understand and reverse engineer the Reaper tech to have a vague idea of were and how to disconnect the IFF. And only after they manage that do they fall to the indoctrination effect. Once they use the Omega Relay the Collectors send out a single ship and a couple of Oculus, both of which are destroyed and then offer no follow up investigation. Of which simply looking out a window would give away the Normandy is in fact in one piece. Then they split into teams with literal dozen people vs hundreds of Collectors. With no back up or way to resupply if their ammo caches. Then after putting the entire base on high alert a single person is capable of escorting back dozens of injured crew men though the high alert base without leading any of them to the damaged Normandy for another pair of Oculus to finish off while it is incapable of flight and defending it self. Then when Shepard goes off to destroy the Proto Reaper the remaining dozen or so squad mates with no supply lines, no way to escape or really any room to maneuver in some how hold off hundreds of Collectors that run dick first into their line of fire. Which is made even worse because you already went though a room full of Swarmers which you needed a powerful Biotic to hold back due to the counter measures created earlier in the game wouldn't work against that many. And doing that quickly exhausted them and pushed them to the point of collapse. So they would have a super easy way to over whelm them. Then you have the problem of Shepard dealing with the Proto Reaper. The entire fight makes it super stupid but even if the fight didn't happen it doesn't fix the stupidity of it. Since the entire point of the Collector's actions was to create said Reaper and yet some how only a handful of Collectors can respond to it being attacked. And a Single beam from that Reaper should have wiped out the platform that Shepard was on killing him/her instantly. And it has a convenient press to destroy entire base button that you would only expect to see on a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain's set up. The Death Star's weakness was more realistic and acceptable then the Collector base. Because at least those Proton Torpedo's Luke fired needed to make a 90 degree turn on a dime to make it down the slot. And trying to come at it in a straight line would simply result in you getting ripped apart. By your logic the simple fact we got a 3rd game is nothing short of a miracle. Which at the absolute worst continued the same traditions that existed in all other previous games. Despite what players may want to think ME 3 hardly the 3rd child coming out red haired and freckled compared to their other siblings that are brown hair with blue eyes. The whole ME family are red haired freckled family.
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Post by Darth Dennis on Jan 3, 2017 15:23:11 GMT
I think that if Shepard didn't romance Tali, she should have got together with Engineer Adams. They must spend way much more time together than with Garrus.
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Post by London on Jan 5, 2017 8:39:24 GMT
I hope the Ryder's fail to colonize Andromeda and BioWare has to face the consequences of their own writing.
Based on how colonization tends to effect natives I'm not sure they should succeed anyway.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 5, 2017 15:47:19 GMT
I hope the Ryder's fail to colonize Andromeda and BioWare has to face the consequences of their own writing. Based on how colonization tends to effect natives I'm not sure they should succeed anyway. Those natives by all hints of logic should be rocking Reaper level tech. Or at least close to it.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 5, 2017 16:52:55 GMT
I hope the Ryder's fail to colonize Andromeda and BioWare has to face the consequences of their own writing. Based on how colonization tends to effect natives I'm not sure they should succeed anyway. This really belongs in the Andromeda Section Unpopular Opinions (if there is one). That being said, I don't understand this sentiment. For one, Andromeda is a consequence of their own writing, we wouldn't have to bust out a ton of contrivances to move to another galaxy if the endings hadn't been what they are. Secondly, do you believe the main negative effect of the endings is that they are too divergent? Even if they were good, this still would've likely happened since they were planning on ME3 being the last game and as such, didn't need to worry about choices carrying over and such. If anything "facing the consequenes of their actions" would mean accepting they meant the series to end and just not making more games. Those natives by all hints of logic should be rocking Reaper level tech. Or at least close to it. lolno. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in the holokid's philosophy. Countless more ways to transcend and or to destroy oneself than lolSkynet. There is nothing that inherently says there needs be life at all, logically. Of course the writers have decreed that there is life and lo and behold it's humanoid (again) and probably overly anthropomorphized (again). Which might actually argue against Reaper level tech, although on the other hand, you don't actually need to be "beyond comprehension" to wield stronger shields, relativistic cannons, and drives which don't need to discharge. So... it'll be what it'll be, because they made it so, not because of any need to be so.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 5, 2017 17:08:56 GMT
Those natives by all hints of logic should be rocking Reaper level tech. Or at least close to it. lolno. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in the holokid's philosophy. Countless more ways to transcend and or to destroy oneself than lolSkynet. There is nothing that inherently says there needs be life at all, logically. Of course the writers have decreed that there is life and lo and behold it's humanoid (again) and probably overly anthropomorphized (again). Which might actually argue against Reaper level tech, although on the other hand, you don't actually need to be "beyond comprehension" to wield stronger shields, relativistic cannons, and drives which don't need to discharge. So... it'll be what it'll be, because they made it so, not because of any need to be so. You really like not paying attention don't you? I said Reaper Tech levels. AKA the technological equivalent of what the Reapers had. Which would make the entire expedition to Andromeda due to the fact they left during the time between ME 2 and ME 3. The races of the Milky Way would be the equivalent of a AEG C.IV Fighter Biplane Aircraft (1916) to the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor of the Andromeda races. Because they have had literal billions and billions of years to develop life and for that life to develop technology. Particularly because you see those massive Forerunner like Vaults and during a trailer for it there is a brief scene of them fighting a giant robotic being again reminiscent of Forerunner technology from the Halo Series. And Forerunner technology is so important in the series because even thought the Covenant barely scratched the surface of their tech it gave them such a massive advantage that they were nearly capable of wiping out the UNSC and in deed humanity form the face of the galaxy.
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Post by London on Jan 5, 2017 17:31:30 GMT
I hope the Ryder's fail to colonize Andromeda and BioWare has to face the consequences of their own writing. Based on how colonization tends to effect natives I'm not sure they should succeed anyway. This really belongs in the Andromeda Section Unpopular Opinions (if there is one). That being said, I don't understand this sentiment. For one, Andromeda is a consequence of their own writing, we wouldn't have to bust out a ton of contrivances to move to another galaxy if the endings hadn't been what they are. Secondly, do you believe the main negative effect of the endings is that they are too divergent? Even if they were good, this still would've likely happened since they were planning on ME3 being the last game and as such, didn't need to worry about choices carrying over and such. If anything "facing the consequenes of their actions" would mean accepting they meant the series to end and just not making more games. Well, there is a "Mass Effect Story" forum that doesn't specify which game, and no story forum for ME:A. You're the mod so you should know this. While ME:A is a consequence of their own writing, it's more like a cop-out in that they aren't able to address anything. They crafted a way to completely reboot the series as a result, bringing us into a completely new galaxy and X number of years in the future. I didn't have a problem with the ending but I feel the story direction here is really more an effort to avoid dealing with the endings in any way.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 5, 2017 17:39:04 GMT
This really belongs in the Andromeda Section Unpopular Opinions (if there is one). That being said, I don't understand this sentiment. For one, Andromeda is a consequence of their own writing, we wouldn't have to bust out a ton of contrivances to move to another galaxy if the endings hadn't been what they are. Secondly, do you believe the main negative effect of the endings is that they are too divergent? Even if they were good, this still would've likely happened since they were planning on ME3 being the last game and as such, didn't need to worry about choices carrying over and such. If anything "facing the consequenes of their actions" would mean accepting they meant the series to end and just not making more games. Well, there is a "Mass Effect Story" forum that doesn't specify which game, and no story forum for ME:A. You're the mod so you should know this. While ME:A is a consequence of their own writing, it's more like a cop-out in that they aren't able to address anything. They crafted a way to completely reboot the series as a result, bringing us into a completely new galaxy and X number of years in the future. I didn't have a problem with the ending but I feel the story direction here is really more an effort to avoid dealing with the endings in any way. Well to be fair if Reddit is anything to go by. Even suggesting they should pick cannon choices simply for the sake of setting up the story and universe Andromeda takes places in. Is the equivalent of killing their grandmother in front of them and bathing in her blood. Because apparently the choices they made in ME 3 are far more important then a decent story base for ME:A.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 5, 2017 18:05:51 GMT
You really like not paying attention don't you? I said Reaper Tech levels. AKA the technological equivalent of what the Reapers had. Which would make the entire expedition to Andromeda due to the fact they left during the time between ME 2 and ME 3. The races of the Milky Way would be the equivalent of a AEG C.IV Fighter Biplane Aircraft (1916) to the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor of the Andromeda races. Because they have had literal billions and billions of years to develop life and for that life to develop technology. Particularly because you see those massive Forerunner like Vaults and during a trailer for it there is a brief scene of them fighting a giant robotic being again reminiscent of Forerunner technology from the Halo Series. And Forerunner technology is so important in the series because even thought the Covenant barely scratched the surface of their tech it gave them such a massive advantage that they were nearly capable of wiping out the UNSC and in deed humanity form the face of the galaxy. I really wish you could talk to yourself. Because that's the only way your responses would make sense. Well, sense as a loose term in this case. There is nothing that says any current race in Andromeda had "billions of years" to develop. That assumes that only something like the Reapers could wipe a civilization out and not something else, like oh, any other cause. War, disease, natural disasters etc. It also assumes life must crop up like weeds in Andromeda the same way it does in the Milky Way (yet another faulty assumption of the holokid btw, that the cycles work because new intelligent life will always arise). Drake equation, look it up. Unfounded assumptions, the lot of them. It's equally possible that only two races ever achieved anything of note in Andromeda. The Remnant whatever precursors (they're gone now), and these Kett things, and who knows how long they've been around? Nothing logically compells it one way or another, apart from the wishes of the writers. Well, there is a "Mass Effect Story" forum that doesn't specify which game, and no story forum for ME:A. You're the mod so you should know this. While ME:A is a consequence of their own writing, it's more like a cop-out in that they aren't able to address anything. They crafted a way to completely reboot the series as a result, bringing us into a completely new galaxy and X number of years in the future. I didn't have a problem with the ending but I feel the story direction here is really more an effort to avoid dealing with the endings in any way. This section is the ME Trilogy Story Lore and General Discussion. I know the Trilogy part is omitted, but that's what it is. Discussion pertaining to Andromeda specifically should go to either Andromeda General, Andromeda MP or Andromeda Character/Romance as appropriate. One post isn't a big deal, but just for future reference, unless/until the subforum categories change. Anyway I disagree. A cop-out in my book would be a straight up reboot, just wiping away the trilogy and starting fresh. But this is an in-universe action which means the events of the trilogy still stand yet player choice isn't infringed. Honestly I didn't think it was possible to do a sequel and avoid the clusterfuck of the endings. And avoiding is what they should do. It's better for everyone. There's no profit for them or us to stir that pot, only more issues.
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Post by London on Jan 5, 2017 18:08:04 GMT
You really like not paying attention don't you? I said Reaper Tech levels. AKA the technological equivalent of what the Reapers had. Which would make the entire expedition to Andromeda due to the fact they left during the time between ME 2 and ME 3. The races of the Milky Way would be the equivalent of a AEG C.IV Fighter Biplane Aircraft (1916) to the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor of the Andromeda races. Because they have had literal billions and billions of years to develop life and for that life to develop technology. Particularly because you see those massive Forerunner like Vaults and during a trailer for it there is a brief scene of them fighting a giant robotic being again reminiscent of Forerunner technology from the Halo Series. And Forerunner technology is so important in the series because even thought the Covenant barely scratched the surface of their tech it gave them such a massive advantage that they were nearly capable of wiping out the UNSC and in deed humanity form the face of the galaxy. I really wish you could talk to yourself. Because that's the only way your responses would make sense. Well, sense as a loose term in this case. There is nothing that says any current race in Andromeda had "billions of years" to develop. That assumes that only something like the Reapers could wipe a civilization out and not something else, like oh, any other cause. War, disease, natural disasters etc. It also assumes life must crop up like weeds in Andromeda the same way it does in the Milky Way (yet another faulty assumption of the holokid btw, that the cycles work because new intelligent life will always arise). Drake equation, look it up. Unfounded assumptions, the lot of them. It's equally possible that only two races ever achieved anything of note in Andromeda. The Remnant whatever precursors (they're gone now), and these Kett things, and who knows how long they've been around? Nothing logically compells it one way or another, apart from the wishes of the writers. Well, there is a "Mass Effect Story" forum that doesn't specify which game, and no story forum for ME:A. You're the mod so you should know this. While ME:A is a consequence of their own writing, it's more like a cop-out in that they aren't able to address anything. They crafted a way to completely reboot the series as a result, bringing us into a completely new galaxy and X number of years in the future. I didn't have a problem with the ending but I feel the story direction here is really more an effort to avoid dealing with the endings in any way. This section is the ME Trilogy Story Lore and General Discussion. I know the Trilogy part is omitted, but that's what it is. Discussion pertaining to Andromeda specifically should go to either Andromeda General, Andromeda MP or Andromeda Character/Romance as appropriate. One post isn't a big deal, but just for future reference, unless/until the subforum categories change. Anyway I disagree. A cop-out in my book would be a straight up reboot, just wiping away the trilogy and starting fresh. But this is an in-universe action which means the events of the trilogy still stand yet player choice isn't infringed. Honestly I didn't think it was possible to do a sequel and avoid the clusterfuck of the endings. And avoiding is what they should do. It's better for everyone. There's no profit for them or us to stir that pot, only more issues. Well thanks for the kind welcome for a relatively new user when you don't have your forums titled in the way you want people to use them and have no options for Andromeda for the same topic. You can keep your forums. Peace out.
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Post by shechinah on Jan 5, 2017 18:52:52 GMT
Anyway I disagree. A cop-out in my book would be a straight up reboot, just wiping away the trilogy and starting fresh. But this is an in-universe action which means the events of the trilogy still stand yet player choice isn't infringed. Honestly I didn't think it was possible to do a sequel and avoid the clusterfuck of the endings. And avoiding is what they should do. It's better for everyone. There's no profit for them or us to stir that pot, only more issues. I think that attempting to continue the series in the Milky Way with the endings would actually lessen the effect of the endings and be a disservice to almost everybody as well as to the story itself. To elaborate: since I cannot imaging it would be profitable to make a game for each ending, they'd have to create a game wherein which ending chosen would basically amount to flavoring. The main dish would remain the same, only the flavor and color of the dish would change.
Basically, I think the developers would have to downplay the consequences of the endings in order to make the game that continues on from the endings. In a way, I think not dealing with the endings and leaving the setting of the Milky Way to do so may be the only way to really respect the endings and the choices people made. I honestly don't see how trying to deal with the endings as being able to produce something enjoyable for most of the audience even the people who liked or loved the endings.
I consider Mass Effect: Andromeda to be a soft reboot since so far, it seems to basically be relaunching the series but without discarding previous continuity or erasing previous installments in the franchise as a "hard" reboot would normally do. Star Wars: The Force Awakens is an example of a soft reboot.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 5, 2017 19:11:48 GMT
Well thanks for the kind welcome for a relatively new user when you don't have your forums titled in the way you want people to use them and have no options for Andromeda for the same topic. You can keep your forums. Peace out. I admitted the ambiguity of some section titles, but I let you know where things stood. There is no reason for this negativity. I hope you find what you're looking for.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jan 5, 2017 19:29:15 GMT
You really like not paying attention don't you? I said Reaper Tech levels. AKA the technological equivalent of what the Reapers had. Which would make the entire expedition to Andromeda due to the fact they left during the time between ME 2 and ME 3. The races of the Milky Way would be the equivalent of a AEG C.IV Fighter Biplane Aircraft (1916) to the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor of the Andromeda races. Because they have had literal billions and billions of years to develop life and for that life to develop technology. Particularly because you see those massive Forerunner like Vaults and during a trailer for it there is a brief scene of them fighting a giant robotic being again reminiscent of Forerunner technology from the Halo Series. And Forerunner technology is so important in the series because even thought the Covenant barely scratched the surface of their tech it gave them such a massive advantage that they were nearly capable of wiping out the UNSC and in deed humanity form the face of the galaxy. I really wish you could talk to yourself. Because that's the only way your responses would make sense. Well, sense as a loose term in this case. There is nothing that says any current race in Andromeda had "billions of years" to develop. That assumes that only something like the Reapers could wipe a civilization out and not something else, like oh, any other cause. War, disease, natural disasters etc. It also assumes life must crop up like weeds in Andromeda the same way it does in the Milky Way (yet another faulty assumption of the holokid btw, that the cycles work because new intelligent life will always arise). Drake equation, look it up. Unfounded assumptions, the lot of them. It's equally possible that only two races ever achieved anything of note in Andromeda. The Remnant whatever precursors (they're gone now), and these Kett things, and who knows how long they've been around? Nothing logically compells it one way or another, apart from the wishes of the writers. Oh scarecrow you never let me down with all of your strawmans. To start the time it would take for Leviathan to evolve to the point they were capable of achieving extra-solar travel would encompass hundreds of millions of years. Then from the point they gained complete control of the galaxy to the point the Catalyst instigated it's Reaper solution would be another million or so years give or take. The time frame is vague but it would be a good estimate to say 1 billion years from the start of their evolutionary path to their eventual downfall. And that isn't even taking into account the cosmic scale time it would take for conditions to create said planet in the first place to allow Leviathan to start to evolve on as well. Which would encompass billions and billions of years. On top of that the Reaper solution which lasted for 50,000 years a cycle roughly. Kept the galaxy in a state of stasis for a rough estimate of 1,000 cycles. Though could be more. That alone is ~ 50,000,000 years. But even if you cut the total cycles in half to only 500 that still gives you roughly 25,000,000 years kept in stasis. Combined with the 1 billion or so from Leviathan's time. You are still looking at 1,025,000,000- 1,050,000,000 years between the start of evolution in the Milky way galaxy and the point ME:A starts. And of course that isn't taking the comic scale of time it would be to create planets capable of supporting life. Which could add another couple billion years. Which would be plenty of time for live to evolve, develop, grow, expand and cause a species wide cataclysm and to be able to recover or have another race develop in their place. In fact the only reason why the races of Andromeda wouldn't be at Reaper level tech is if the Catalyst is correct and Organic races will always cause self destruction. And while the specific reason it gave might not be correct the over all reason why and it's actions are 100% validated. Meaning the Catalyst is correct in it's assumption and it's actions. Any argument you have using Drake Equation is invalidated by the simple actions of the Reapers. Repeating the action of harvesting advanced life for 25-50 million years and yet new intelligent life keeps showing up roughly every 50,000 years. Reaching the level needed to validate the harvest. With anywhere from one to half a dozen races per cycle. The only unfounded assumptions are made by you. Because I am building on the existing universe they have created and the logic they have used inside that universe. So say the Andromeda galaxy that is actually more dense then the Milky Way could only produce 2 races that evolved beyond the level of a cow. Is asinine beyond all reasoning. Particularly when given the time scale and the fact they have already shown a myriad of native creatures to the Andromeda system.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 19:37:21 GMT
Haven't been on here in a while... Thought I'd pop in see how things are on this thread, since there have been some pretty cool discussions... *sees that gothpunkboy and Crutch Cricket are still at it* Toodle bye. Just gunna leave this here...
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 5, 2017 19:57:39 GMT
I see no reason to censor myself from pointing out when something doesn't add up, even from gothboy there. But not to worry, gone is the expectation of meaningful discussion or even change on this front. Particularly since he's literally doing the same thing over and over...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 14:11:32 GMT
I see no reason to censor myself from pointing out when something doesn't add up, even from gothboy there. But not to worry, gone is the expectation of meaningful discussion or even change on this front. Particularly since he's literally doing the same thing over and over... I don't criticise you one iota for attempting (as so many have valiantly before you) to correct or educate or even dissuade him from literally plaguing so many threads (here and on the old BSN) with his... Unique posts and theories and whatever the hell you want to call them. Ive since come to the suspicion that it may even be deliberate on his part. Leaving a post on a thread filled with such ludicrousness and blatant error, that he is baiting someone to challenge him. And thus do many and tiring back and forths begin between many a wise and noble poster, trying to point out the errors in there fellow forum members posts. Sadly none have yet to really quell or deter him from continuing his railroading of discussions and threads. As you said, it is a consistent act on his part. And he has also strayed multiple times towards full out insulting other forum members, with his usual petulant style of posting.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 6, 2017 18:11:12 GMT
And he has also strayed multiple times towards full out insulting other forum members, with his usual petulant style of posting. If he or anyone else does cross that line, please feel free to report them and they will be dealt with appropriately. We try, but we can't read literally every post.
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Post by mordokai on Jan 6, 2017 18:39:23 GMT
- Thane sucks. ME3 is better without him. In fact all drell suck Neutral towards Thane personally, so no biggie there. But all drell suck? My friend, you obviously haven't played MP much, because playing drell adept, drell vanguard(otherwise known as drellgod) and drell assassin infiltrator, or indeed, just seeing one being played well, well... it's absolute mayhem, in a good way. They are so much cooler than Thane ever was. Which is kinda sad, really, since Thane is supposed to be this individual with deep backstory and everything and they are just generic drell and yet... if not the top three MP characters, then certainly in the top ten.
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Post by Lavochkin on Jan 6, 2017 20:03:18 GMT
Still trying to wrap my mind around the point of Thane in ME2, as he literally serves no purpose in the story and specifically the SM. Even the likes of Zaeed and Grunt who have no official role they exceed at are good at the "hold the line" portion of the SM. I figure he was just the posterchild of the "If it sounds cool, add it" philosophy that went behind ME2's development.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 6, 2017 20:14:51 GMT
Still trying to wrap my mind around the point of Thane in ME2, as he literally serves no purpose in the story and specifically the SM. Even the likes of Zaeed and Grunt who have no official role they exceed at are good at the "hold the line" portion of the SM. I figure he was just the posterchild of the "If it sounds cool, add it" philosophy that went behind ME2's development. Assassin/infiltration specialist. Your mission is to infiltrate an enemy position. Seems like a straight line from A to B to me. The outfits were Rule of Cool-enabled, the professions were not. The only squadmates that are headscratchers are Jack, Morinth and Legion (only for the inital risk of activating it).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 20:24:30 GMT
I am pretty positive that the reason why Thane is in the game at all, was because BioWARE was absolutely determined to spend a lot of budget and time to hold brainstorming sessions on how to make a character to specifically please one very dedicated fan, namely Domi.... I mean, I think I've heard of that one other person who might have liked him---
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Post by themikefest on Jan 6, 2017 20:56:21 GMT
I saw no point in having Thane. As soon as he says "I'm dying", I wanted to say, I don't need you on my squad. Don't need something to go wrong on a mission if his health turns for the worst.
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Post by Lavochkin on Jan 6, 2017 21:42:14 GMT
Still trying to wrap my mind around the point of Thane in ME2, as he literally serves no purpose in the story and specifically the SM. Even the likes of Zaeed and Grunt who have no official role they exceed at are good at the "hold the line" portion of the SM. I figure he was just the posterchild of the "If it sounds cool, add it" philosophy that went behind ME2's development. Assassin/infiltration specialist. Your mission is to infiltrate an enemy position. Seems like a straight line from A to B to me. The outfits were Rule of Cool-enabled, the professions were not. The only squadmates that are headscratchers are Jack, Morinth and Legion (only for the inital risk of activating it). But he doesn't Assassinate or infiltrate any more than anyone else does. Mordin is the only squadmate that has any justification for being recruited in the first place, as Shep and Cerb have zero idea what's even on the other side of the O4 Relay to even be looking for people(and for tasks that either cerb troopers or random mercs can fulfill).
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 7, 2017 0:52:05 GMT
But he doesn't Assassinate or infiltrate any more than anyone else does. Mordin is the only squadmate that has any justification for being recruited in the first place, as Shep and Cerb have zero idea what's even on the other side of the O4 Relay to even be looking for people(and for tasks that either cerb troopers or random mercs can fulfill). Technically the first time you see him, he does assassinate someone. But I disagree. I posted a while ago (in a different thread I think) how the squad composition is actually perfect both in roles and redundancy. Let me try to find it... Here we go: Come to think of it, I may have to recant my earlier objections of redundancy for other squadmates as well. While from a gameplay standpoint, twelve squadmates may be more than is needed, lore wise it's actually a perfectly balanced group. Losing any of them could negatively impact the mission and given the odds, you need redundancy in every role. The unorthodoxy of some members is also accounted for with the irregular nature of both the mission and who you're working for
The following is a breakdown of how the team should logically function. I'm ignoring gameplay and questionable suggestions like having Shepard on the ground every damn mission. Roles have redundancy both for disaster prevention and to have two teams, whether they be primary/backup or meant to run simultaneously.
The leadership team: Shepard (CO), Miranda (XO), Jacob, Garrus
Shepard is in overall command of the ship and the mission. So logically he should be in command of the ship by default, coordinating with the ground teams. If Shepard needs to leave the ship for any reason, Miranda assumes command. If Shepard and Miranda are out, Jacob assumes command (since it is a Cerberus ship). Jacob and Garrus then would lead the ground teams and assume the duties of Armory Officer and Weapons Officer aboard ship.
Biotics- Samara and Jack provide heavy biotics needed for assault or defense of their respective teams. Jack's unsuitablity based on her instability/obvious hatred of Cerberus is still an issue but a clever commander could keep her in line and in the absence of another justicar or matriarch like Samara, she'll do.
Infiltration- Kasumi and Thane. Again two are needed, one for each team or to cover worst cases. They even have complementing flavors, Thane has biotics, Kasumi has tech. And no, Garrus, is not an infiltrator despite fitting the description of his group of powers in ME1. He was C-Sec, thus by nature highly visible and wasn't particularly stealthy as Archangel either.
Bioresearch/medical- Mordin and Okeer. Okeer was who you initially wanted to recruit, for his knowledge and experience with Collector tech. He died, Mordin carried on and provided the breakthroughs you needed. Perfect example of redundancy. As far as pure medical goes, you also have Mordin and Chakwas as ship's doctors.
Tech experts: Tali and Legion. Self explanatory. Again, Legion's designation as "Infiltrator" is gameplay only. "Geth do not infiltrate". Lorewise geth are known for hacking anything in range and being an AI his response times would be above any organic's.
Soldiers: Grunt, Zaeed. Nothing flashy, just brute force and overwhelming firepower.
Now the mission was poorly defined at the start- stop the Collectors, when you assume the Collectors are a race like the others with a homeworld of their own, yet you're recruiting individual specialists instead of PMCs. My guess is they knew the endpoint but didn't bother making sure it made sense at the beginning. But for what the mission ends up being (infiltrate the enemy base and sabotage it) a twelve man team of experts (fourteen, including Okeer and Shepard) is actually a pretty perfect configuration. More and you risk the team being too unwieldy, less and you may not have what it takes to get the job done, or at the most optimistic, no margin for error. And of those selected it helps that a number of them have secondary skills which could assist with things outside their primary roles
Miranda, Jacob, Thane- biotics Kasumi- tech Mordin, Legion, Garrus- guerilla tactics, somewhat relating to infiltration
So if you actually think about it, more thought went into the ME2 squad than the rest of the games, where most squadmates boil down to "eh, they were there and not doing anything". On who should've been recruited you have two angles: one you need the best of the best and you need them to be rogues/irregulars/a bit on the shadier side since you're working with/are Cerberus and you can't just plunder the races' SF. That's neither Cerberus troops nor random mercs. Of course it gets worse when you consider that, as you say, they didn't know what they getting into on the other side of the Omega 4 relay but they did assume it would be a homeworld. Like I said above, with that assumption they should've been recruiting PMCs not individuals and that still assumes more a more clandestine type operation (hence the need for stealth, subversion and so on) as opposed to a full invasion. Shep actually called it right, TIM should've gotten a fleet instead of resurrecting him if he thought there was world to stop.
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Post by amoebae on Jan 8, 2017 2:50:04 GMT
I haven't read the whole of this thread because wow is it long, but I think most of my unpopular opinions have already been mentioned: * Meer > Hale * I the Mako * I the ending(s) to ME3 (even before the Extended Cut, although I mostly like what that added too) * Garrus is, fine I guess * Thane is boring (although his end scene in ME3 was good) * ME2 is the worst of the trilogy * I'd be fine never seeing Miranda ever again * Destroy is the worst ending (apart from refusing altogether) I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones that stand out right now.
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