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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 24, 2017 12:19:20 GMT
Thing is they didn't even need to retcon anything. Javik says the prothean empire spanned many races and species all of which called themselves prothean. There's an out right there but Bioware never took it.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2017 12:24:04 GMT
make destroy green color and the synthesis red color. I like destroy being red. I'll stick with that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 16:59:18 GMT
Thing is they didn't even need to retcon anything. Javik says the prothean empire spanned many races and species all of which called themselves prothean. There's an out right there but Bioware never took it. But that's just one of the myriad of lame excuses for everything in ME3. The rest of ME3 is a nonsensical mess, an onslaught of bullshit, why would I take that seriously?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 26, 2017 4:03:26 GMT
Thing is they didn't even need to retcon anything. Javik says the prothean empire spanned many races and species all of which called themselves prothean. There's an out right there but Bioware never took it. But that's just one of the myriad of lame excuses for everything in ME3. The rest of ME3 is a nonsensical mess, an onslaught of bullshit, why would I take that seriously? Elaborate on that please
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 16:47:42 GMT
But that's just one of the myriad of lame excuses for everything in ME3. The rest of ME3 is a nonsensical mess, an onslaught of bullshit, why would I take that seriously? Elaborate on that please Actually I think it was inaccurate to speak of a "myriad" of lame excuses. There are some, from--let's say in my opinion--why the new Protheans look different, why the Citadel is moved to Earth, why they have a teleporter from London to the Citadel, to the side dialogue about why weapons use thermal clips now. The bigger problem is that most things that don't make any sense and ignore the Mass Effect lore are not explained at all. The game doesn't even seem to bother anymore. Back to the Prothean thing: if most things made some sense, I could condone some BS. There are moments of nonsense in ME1, but I can forgive it because most of it is done very well and makes sense. If most of ME3's writing wasn't egregious nonsense, I'd forgive the Prothean redesign even if I don't like it. Sadly, most of ME3 is egregious nonsense. It fucks up the whole ME lore and doesn't even work in itself. And on that basis, why should I make an exception and accept anything it does with or says about the Protheans? You're probably thinking that I'm generalising without giving an explanation of what makes no sense and how. I'd have to write many pages to explain it extensively; I've discussed this over the years to total exhaustion and don't want to do it again. Instead, I'll link to this blog that's the most in-depth analysis of the trilogy I know and picks it apart piece by piece in detail (it starts with ME3 in the middle of this entry): www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=30359I should know better than to rail against ME3 again. Now that I have ME:A I thought I finally found peace with all that went wrong in the trilogy. But it's a deeply ingrained habit that I'll fall back to now and then.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 26, 2017 20:45:23 GMT
@robtherobber : We're all entitled to our feelings so don't worry about it. Myself, I happen to love the entire trilogy. I'm not super fond of the RGB choices, but it also doesn't upset me very much. I've only been playing since early 2016 and I played the entire trilogy from start to finish in one go. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the details in that first run. I had a specific goal in mind when playing and part of that was allowing Shepard and LI to live happily ever after. Therefore, G and B were eliminated immediately. (Tried Synthesis once, and it was fine, but no Shepard.) It was only as I did multiple playthroughs that I started to notice some of the flaws. Still, none of it got me bent out of shape. I'm sure it helped that the original BSN was on its last legs and I didn't have to see all the negative postings about it. It's all archived on Fextralife now but I don't have much interest in reading through all of it. I've got my own opinions and, while I find what others say to be interesting, I'm not here to be swayed.
Now, I could watch someone pick the trilogy apart but why bother? If I get enjoyment out of it why should I look for reasons not to like it? There are elements I can live without. And since I always choose Destroy I've cut to the chase and installed MEHEM. Cuts out a conversation I don't need to hear anyway.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 26, 2017 23:04:41 GMT
Actually I think it was inaccurate to speak of a "myriad" of lame excuses. There are some, from--let's say in my opinion--why the new Protheans look different, why the Citadel is moved to Earth, why they have a teleporter from London to the Citadel, to the side dialogue about why weapons use thermal clips now. The bigger problem is that most things that don't make any sense and ignore the Mass Effect lore are not explained at all. The game doesn't even seem to bother anymore. Back to the Prothean thing: if most things made some sense, I could condone some BS. There are moments of nonsense in ME1, but I can forgive it because most of it is done very well and makes sense. If most of ME3's writing wasn't egregious nonsense, I'd forgive the Prothean redesign even if I don't like it. Sadly, most of ME3 is egregious nonsense. It fucks up the whole ME lore and doesn't even work in itself. And on that basis, why should I make an exception and accept anything it does with or says about the Protheans? You're probably thinking that I'm generalising without giving an explanation of what makes no sense and how. I'd have to write many pages to explain it extensively; I've discussed this over the years to total exhaustion and don't want to do it again. Instead, I'll link to this blog that's the most in-depth analysis of the trilogy I know and picks it apart piece by piece in detail (it starts with ME3 in the middle of this entry): www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=30359I should know better than to rail against ME3 again. Now that I have ME:A I thought I finally found peace with all that went wrong in the trilogy. But it's a deeply ingrained habit that I'll fall back to now and then. Well Thermal Clip was done for game play reasons and they at least attempted to shoe horn in a reason for the change. The talk with what's his face on the Citadel about them is a tongue in cheek BioWare reaction to players complaining about how stupid and a step back they are in technology. Which it is but necessary for game play reasons. The rest is explained either directly or indirectly. Like the fact the Citadel does in fact have engines and the smart move would be to move the Citadel into Reaper held space which in this case would be Earth. Forcing the races of the galaxy to challenge them on the Reaper's territory or slowly be harvested. There is nonsense in all the games and ME 3 is no worse then ME 1. The only difference is in many instance they try to clarify vague concepts from the first one. Which they were given the benefit of not needing to explain it all in the first game. The evolution of the Reapers and their intent as example. The first game can get away with being vague as can the second one. How ever the third one that actually has to have those details for the story can't be as vague anymore. Generalities are fine if you don't want to get into details just wanted the general concept of why you think that way. As for the link you provided I've seen it before and I've read it. How ever my opinion of the creator of that isn't the best. Whinny is the best word to summarize how I feel about it. Mostly because they seem to ignore many of these flaws existed in ME 1 and 2 in spades. Yet when it happens in 3 some how then it becomes a problem. Because here is the thing in my opinion. Every author, every screen writer, every game develop has their own style and action on how they approach a story. This includes flaws in how they tell stuff. Be it contradictory information or simply stuff mumbled really softly to vaguely explain why X or Y happened. By the time to get to the third game you should be well aware of the pitfalls of how BioWare tells stories. So at that point the flaws and issues people complain about should be expected. And while constructive criticism of those flaws should be done in hopes they will address them. When the same flaws have existed since the first game you can't suddenly flip the table and storm out the door over the problem in the final game. A game that had to wrap up a lot of story lines since it was the final one.
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Post by Monica21 on Apr 27, 2017 15:00:39 GMT
7) gameplay wise, Garrus is one of the worst companions in all 3 games. Is this because you're not speccing Garrus to God Mode?
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Post by yan on Apr 27, 2017 15:46:49 GMT
7) gameplay wise, Garrus is one of the worst companions in all 3 games. Is this because you're not speccing Garrus to God Mode? I guess is because (IMHO, of course), Kaidan simply beats him at 1 and 3 and in ME2 he´s good, but I'd rather walk with Zaeed. Squad disruptor ammo is more useful to me then AP ammo, bouth have concusive shots and inferno grenade is a excelent crowd control, a ESSENTIAL thing in Insanity, the only difficulty I play. Anyway, I will always like Garrus. First time I beat ME1, Tali and him were with me, fighting Saren. First time I play the sucide mission, I choose some wtf companions to be the leader of the second team. Mordin, Grunt and Zaeed and they all dies. Then I pull over Garrus. Damn, you can count on this guy to get the job done.
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Post by Monica21 on Apr 27, 2017 16:01:30 GMT
Is this because you're not speccing Garrus to God Mode? I guess is because (IMHO, of course), Kaidan simply beats him at 1 and 3 and in ME2 he´s good, but I'd rather walk with Zaeed. Squad disruptor ammo is more useful to me then AP ammo, bouth have concusive shots and inferno grenade is a excelent crowd control, a ESSENTIAL thing in Insanity, the only difficulty I play. Anyway, I will always like Garrus. First time I beat ME1, Tali and him were with me, fighting Saren. First time I play the sucide mission, I choose some wtf companions to be the leader of the second team. Mordin, Grunt and Zaeed and they all dies. Then I pull over Garrus. Damn, you can count on this guy to get the job done. Garrus spec'd to God Mode is quite a sight, and having been reminded of that, is one of the reasons I'm going back to the OT right now. And I found Kaidan to be sadly useless in ME3, unfortunately. He's uninteresting after bringing him back to the Normandy, so I rarely bring him with me on missions. I think I always bring Kaidan to Eden Prime, but mostly just out of nostalgia.
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Post by yan on Apr 27, 2017 18:07:01 GMT
Really?
Well, he have overload and overload is overload hã? The best power in the MET. One simple can't go wrong with overload.
Reaver? Also awesome. I like to use reaver plus......dark something??? (Javik power). Don't trigger a combo, but you can finish with your weapon.
Alliance office rank 6 boost your shield.
Cryo blast has a superb cooldown.
He's really good. Bullet sponge too.
Garrus is also good, but I never liked that mine.
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Post by yan on Apr 27, 2017 19:02:16 GMT
Alright, ten more because reasons:
1) I like Thane. Kolyat's scene in Citadel Dlc is one of my favorites in the trilogy. But I can't stand talk with this guy because that annoying memory thing. Jesus, just die already.
2) ME2 is not only the worst of the trilogy. Is more. ME2 is a mistake.
3) Joker is......only ok? And that's it.
4) TIM is a better antagonist then Saren. Later I explain why.
5) Canon shep = soldier, male, earthborn, paragon, liara as lover. PERIOD.
6) Ash IS racist. And NO. You will not convince me otherwise.
7) Collectors sux, excepted in the main point. Is absolute awesome fight against this guys. Geth are pussys, reapers forces are ok, the 3 mercs forces are really good but not as danger like the Collectors and cerberus army is just boring.
8) Main reason to hate Jacob? His teeth. Yes, I'm shallow like that.
9) Aside few ones, asaris are ugly.
10) fallout nv > best fallout ever. What does this have to do with the trilogy? Nothing and I do not care XD
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 27, 2017 21:12:09 GMT
Alright, ten more because reasons: 2) ME2 is not only the worst of the trilogy. Is more. ME2 is a mistake. 5) Canon shep = soldier, male, earthborn, paragon, liara as lover. PERIOD. 6) Ash IS racist. And NO. You will not convince me otherwise. 2. I don't hate ME2 by any stretch but I'm right on board with those who call ME3 "ME1, part 2". ME2 is sort of like a super-extended side quest. ME3 gets things back on track. 5. I'm almost in agreement with you except Kaidan is obviously his canon LI. 6. She's not Terra Firma party, or even the Tenth Street Reds, but she's definitely pro-human. Not sure she's worse than Pressly and, based on ME2, I know Pressly had a dramatic change in attitude. She was wrong on several points about the trustworthiness of aliens. Hell, you can convince Wrex to destroy the genophage cure created by Saren. If that's not working against your own interests to follow the orders of a human than I don't know what is. Similarly, Tali continues to keep the name of a human ship even after becoming an Admiral in the quarian fleet. Garrus will leave his planet that's being annihilated by Reapers to follow Shepard around. Ash was kind of wrong all over the place.
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Post by nougat on Apr 28, 2017 12:01:15 GMT
- Overcoming the genophage (Okeer, Grunt, male shaman) is miles better theme than curing it. I will inflict upon the genophage the greatest insult an enemy can suffer. To be ignored. Gives me shivers every time I hear it. - Alenko and Williams is my favourite squad. - I think Bioware mixed up the value of salarian and krogan war assets. - Allying with the Breeder is the only one f*cked up 'renegade' choice. - I really like all UNC assignments in the first game. N7 missions (ME2, ME3) suck. - Admiral Xen is not 'crazy'. - I like the coldness with which Shepard can kill/execute Shiala, Wrex, Balak, etc. I have a distaste for over-the-top scenes like Shepard throwing away the gun in disgust if Solus/Wiks was shot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 13:45:24 GMT
I'm not even sure what is 'unpopular' but here goes: My favourite game in the trilogy is ME3. I liked TIM, at least in ME2, in ME3 he was crazy but Shepard wasn't great at arguing with him either. And I preferred him over Anderson. Anderson became too fatherly I think. I liked Ashley in ME1 but I kill her on Virmire anyway because I don't like her at all in ME3. I agree with nougat about the genophage actually, overcoming it does seem like the more Krogan way. I loved Xen just because she reminded me of Morrigan, it's also why I didn't hate Gerrel, I liked Loghain so Gerrel was ok in my book. I hated working for the Alliance again in ME3, I felt like a glorified lap dog. I never make peace between the Quarians and the geth because I hate how Shepard uses a few words to fix a war that's been going on for centuries. I didn't hate the endings and I choose control. And lastly, I don't like Garrus (don't hate me). I could just never warm up to him as a character but I won't get into details or anything. That's all I can think of right now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 14:08:36 GMT
Well Thermal Clip was done for game play reasons and they at least attempted to shoe horn in a reason for the change. The talk with what's his face on the Citadel about them is a tongue in cheek BioWare reaction to players complaining about how stupid and a step back they are in technology. Which it is but necessary for game play reasons. The rest is explained either directly or indirectly. Like the fact the Citadel does in fact have engines and the smart move would be to move the Citadel into Reaper held space which in this case would be Earth. Forcing the races of the galaxy to challenge them on the Reaper's territory or slowly be harvested. There is nonsense in all the games and ME 3 is no worse then ME 1. The only difference is in many instance they try to clarify vague concepts from the first one. Which they were given the benefit of not needing to explain it all in the first game. The evolution of the Reapers and their intent as example. The first game can get away with being vague as can the second one. How ever the third one that actually has to have those details for the story can't be as vague anymore. Generalities are fine if you don't want to get into details just wanted the general concept of why you think that way. As for the link you provided I've seen it before and I've read it. How ever my opinion of the creator of that isn't the best. Whinny is the best word to summarize how I feel about it. Mostly because they seem to ignore many of these flaws existed in ME 1 and 2 in spades. Yet when it happens in 3 some how then it becomes a problem. Because here is the thing in my opinion. Every author, every screen writer, every game develop has their own style and action on how they approach a story. This includes flaws in how they tell stuff. Be it contradictory information or simply stuff mumbled really softly to vaguely explain why X or Y happened. By the time to get to the third game you should be well aware of the pitfalls of how BioWare tells stories. So at that point the flaws and issues people complain about should be expected. And while constructive criticism of those flaws should be done in hopes they will address them. When the same flaws have existed since the first game you can't suddenly flip the table and storm out the door over the problem in the final game. A game that had to wrap up a lot of story lines since it was the final one. I don't know why you think he ignored the flaws in ME2, he gave that quite a thrashing too (he also didn't ignore the flaws in ME1, but there were less of them in that one... I'll just add "in my opinion" to avoid further arguments). Honestly... this is going nowhere. We could argue and argue, I've done this to death and I know from experience that this isn't going anywhere. I won't convince you and you won't convince me, so I'd like to offer agreeing on disagreeing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 14:17:16 GMT
@robtherobber : We're all entitled to our feelings so don't worry about it. Myself, I happen to love the entire trilogy. I'm not super fond of the RGB choices, but it also doesn't upset me very much. I guess I wouldn't have hated ME3 so much if I didn't love Mass Effect so much. But let me be clear, even though I hated it with a passion, I still think it's overall a good game.
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Perpetual Nirvana
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 28, 2017 17:26:09 GMT
- Allying with the Breeder is the only one f*cked up 'renegade' choice. What about leaving David Archer with his brother? Or choosing Morinth over Samara? The second one still baffles me because at least with most of the renegade choices there's a practical reason for them. The only reason you'd kill Samara as even the most renegade of renegades is because of her promise to kill you when the mission is over with. But you already have what you need, her commitment to get the job done. There's no guarantee Morinth wouldn't screw you over at first opportunity. And besides, Commander freakin' Shepard with a full crew at their side could probably take Samara, Matriarch or not. I mean Shepard and squad took Benezia no problem and she was supposed to be incredibly powerful.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 28, 2017 18:39:09 GMT
The only time I had her daughter kill her was to get the bonus power and to see the difference in the game. Otherwise I side with Samara
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Post by nougat on Apr 28, 2017 19:55:09 GMT
What about leaving David Archer with his brother? Or choosing Morinth over Samara? Those two minor choices are kind of hard to compare to making a deal with raving reaper monstrosity and sending it to help with the Crucible. Shepard can think that any advantage against the geth shouldn't be thrown away just because of emotionally manipulating cutscene. (By the way, I ignore Overload 'cause my Shepard is not Cerberus' janitor.) And recruiting Morinth isn't way more dangerous than having an active geth, Jack and Grunt aboard.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 29, 2017 1:51:21 GMT
Well Thermal Clip was done for game play reasons and they at least attempted to shoe horn in a reason for the change. The talk with what's his face on the Citadel about them is a tongue in cheek BioWare reaction to players complaining about how stupid and a step back they are in technology. Which it is but necessary for game play reasons. The rest is explained either directly or indirectly. Like the fact the Citadel does in fact have engines and the smart move would be to move the Citadel into Reaper held space which in this case would be Earth. Forcing the races of the galaxy to challenge them on the Reaper's territory or slowly be harvested. There is nonsense in all the games and ME 3 is no worse then ME 1. The only difference is in many instance they try to clarify vague concepts from the first one. Which they were given the benefit of not needing to explain it all in the first game. The evolution of the Reapers and their intent as example. The first game can get away with being vague as can the second one. How ever the third one that actually has to have those details for the story can't be as vague anymore. Generalities are fine if you don't want to get into details just wanted the general concept of why you think that way. As for the link you provided I've seen it before and I've read it. How ever my opinion of the creator of that isn't the best. Whinny is the best word to summarize how I feel about it. Mostly because they seem to ignore many of these flaws existed in ME 1 and 2 in spades. Yet when it happens in 3 some how then it becomes a problem. Because here is the thing in my opinion. Every author, every screen writer, every game develop has their own style and action on how they approach a story. This includes flaws in how they tell stuff. Be it contradictory information or simply stuff mumbled really softly to vaguely explain why X or Y happened. By the time to get to the third game you should be well aware of the pitfalls of how BioWare tells stories. So at that point the flaws and issues people complain about should be expected. And while constructive criticism of those flaws should be done in hopes they will address them. When the same flaws have existed since the first game you can't suddenly flip the table and storm out the door over the problem in the final game. A game that had to wrap up a lot of story lines since it was the final one. I don't know why you think he ignored the flaws in ME2, he gave that quite a thrashing too (he also didn't ignore the flaws in ME1, but there were less of them in that one... I'll just add "in my opinion" to avoid further arguments). Honestly... this is going nowhere. We could argue and argue, I've done this to death and I know from experience that this isn't going anywhere. I won't convince you and you won't convince me, so I'd like to offer agreeing on disagreeing. Your right it will never go any were because players like you are never satisfied with any responds.
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Post by Monica21 on Apr 29, 2017 5:34:35 GMT
And lastly, I don't like Garrus (don't hate me). I could just never warm up to him as a character but I won't get into details or anything. I think in this thread it's liking Garrus that's unpopular.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 13:04:58 GMT
Your right it will never go any were because players like you are never satisfied with any responds. Not by ones I find indiscriminating and unregenerate, no. I tried to let this rest on good terms, but sadly you're not interested in that. I don't see any point in further conversation.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 29, 2017 21:47:23 GMT
Your right it will never go any were because players like you are never satisfied with any responds. Not by ones I find indiscriminating and unregenerate, no. I tried to let this rest on good terms, but sadly you're not interested in that. I don't see any point in further conversation. I'm not changing any terms. I'm pointing out a fact that you are following the same pattern as many others. Displaying the same mentality as they have shown were no explanation will ever be enough because it seems like they want to be able to complain about something. Case in point about Prothean look. In ME 1 you visit several Prothean ruins and no such pictures or statues exist go give a hint to how they look. The statues only show up on Ilos and only in the maybe 1 sq mile you move around in on the level. Which is the equivalent of aliens landing in Disney World and assuming humanity is 6 foot tall anthropomorphic animals who live in castles and worship a god called Mickey Mouse. Not to mention at that point in time we are already aware of the Reapers and the fact there have been previous cycles besides Prothean. Nothing save your own will says that is what Protheans look like in game. And when they developed the Collectors they throw them into a 2 second frame which still fits with the over all warning the message from the Beacon was about and you still complain. Just like how Husks are still human looking when the basis for Javik was made using the Collectors for the same reason of similarity. An effect that would be seen again with Cannibals, Marauders, Banshee, and Ravagers that while altered still hold semblances to their original species. You jump to conclusions and then complain about them later. That is a similar flaw I've noticed in others that show a similar thought pattern to you. Yet none of this matters because your opinions will never change because no explanation will ever be good enough. I'm not being mean I'm being factual based on a long history of dealing with players showing the same mentality as you. Your statement about Thermal Clips earlier is explained explicitly in ME 2 in one of the Codex's. How during the Geth attack on the Citadel the rapid fire Geth weapons were found to be more effective at eliminating barriers. So the galaxy switched to a disposable clip for increased fire rate since fire rate is more useful for shield dropping then more power behind each shot. The entire conversation between Shepard and Conrad on the Citadel in ME 3 was BioWare actively acknowledging how stupid the set up is and a tongue in cheek forth wall breaking comment to players about how they know the game play set up doesn't make 100% sense in the game's universe. But you still find issue with it and this explanation will not satisfy you and you will still have a problem with it.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 30, 2017 13:32:33 GMT
1.) There is only one difference between squadmates in ME1: Whether or not you can open boxes.
2.) I didn't mind the repeated big large room/deep mine/industrial building completely copy-pasted into every mission in ME1.
3.) The Mako was good in the on-rails sections, no matter how wonky the controls.
4.) Cerberus is in the right. Not the indoctrination stuff, but humanity needs an organization to respond to things like STG, the asari commandos, Blackwatch, and what have you.
5.) Human racism, no matter how true, doesn't excuse alien racism.
6.) Liara is incompetent at her job and possibly insane. I'm sure she's an okay-average Prothean researcher, but as an information broker, she's terrible. The fact that she enshrines Shepard's armor in her apartment, and how she 'couldn't let go' is strange when I spoke to her on the SR1 and thought she was a spy.
7.) Wrex may not be the worst thing that happened to the krogan, but he's no Dinosaur Jesus. It's abundantly clear he doesn't consider the consequences of his actions, possesses very little tact or higher thought processes. There is no krogan Renaissance with him around. That anyone likes him utterly baffles me.
8.) The salarians are the best race, even when the devs go out of their way to paint them as jerks. The elcor are in second place and tragically underutilized. Humans are third. Turians aren't bad but they're too much like Starship Troopers. Volus are funny, but making them a class in ME3 was stupid. Hanar would be better if I could see the jellyfish choking someone like Zaeed talking about. Drell are basically fanservice characters but they have potential. Matriarch Athetya, Samara, and to a lesser extent Shiala were the only asari worth more than a laugh. Eve's personality is nice but she's ruined by being krogan. Grunt is the only great one.
9.) You should have the option of picking your choice on leaving with the bomb. I would choose Liara. Or maybe Wrex.
10.) It's not a good idea to listen to Javik. His race lost the war, after all.
11.) Synthesis could've worked well if they'd built it up first.
12.) Ashley is no more racist than Wrex. Anyone who condemns Ashley for her racism and excuses Wrex has their own sort of problems.
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