dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 1, 2017 2:44:57 GMT
His loyalty mission. Most of the loyalty (and recruitment, actually) missions required killing a bunch of nameless mercs. Or, in Jacob's loyalty mission, killing people suffering brain decay :/ Well, yeah, but they're shooting at you first. Sure, you do basically slaughter your way through loyalty missions, but it's because the mercs are the bad guys. If they were good guys they wouldn't be trying to kill you. I saw it as a given that Blue Suns, Eclipse and Blood Pack were bad guys, plain and simple. They just do enough "above board" missions to appear legitimate but that's the facade.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 1, 2017 2:50:38 GMT
His loyalty mission. Most of the loyalty (and recruitment, actually) missions required killing a bunch of nameless mercs. Or, in Jacob's loyalty mission, killing people suffering brain decay :/ Well, yeah, but they're shooting at you first. Sure, you do basically slaughter your way through loyalty missions, but it's because the mercs are the bad guys. If they were good guys they wouldn't be trying to kill you. What about the people suffering brain decay in Jacob's loyalty mission? They weren't bad guys. Shepard had the option not to kill the colonists on Feros while they were shooting at them. Sure, Shepard had the means to save those colonists ME1 and not ME2, but the topic of avoiding slaughtering them in ME2 wasn't even discussed. They were cannon fodder to get to Jacob's dad. Unnecessary gameplay padding.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 1, 2017 3:41:51 GMT
Well, yeah, but they're shooting at you first. Sure, you do basically slaughter your way through loyalty missions, but it's because the mercs are the bad guys. If they were good guys they wouldn't be trying to kill you. What about the people suffering brain decay in Jacob's loyalty mission? They weren't bad guys. Shepard had the option not to kill the colonists on Feros while they were shooting at them. Sure, Shepard had the means to save those colonists ME1 and not ME2, but the topic of avoiding slaughtering them in ME2 wasn't even discussed. They were cannon fodder to get to Jacob's dad. Unnecessary gameplay padding. I don't see that as gameplay padding. If we still had grenades, maybe we could have done something to not kill them, but a fight still would have happened. On Feros, we still had to launch those anti-Thorian gas grenades at the colonists so action was taking place. The fact that it wasn't causing deaths doesn't change that. I do feel bad about the people from Jacob's LM. They didn't deserve it. But, then, that's why Ronald Taylor was such a shit for turning them into that.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 1, 2017 3:51:40 GMT
What about the people suffering brain decay in Jacob's loyalty mission? They weren't bad guys. Shepard had the option not to kill the colonists on Feros while they were shooting at them. Sure, Shepard had the means to save those colonists ME1 and not ME2, but the topic of avoiding slaughtering them in ME2 wasn't even discussed. They were cannon fodder to get to Jacob's dad. Unnecessary gameplay padding. I don't see that as gameplay padding. If we still had grenades, maybe we could have done something to not kill them, but a fight still would have happened. On Feros, we still had to launch those anti-Thorian gas grenades at the colonists so action was taking place. The fact that it wasn't causing deaths doesn't change that. I do feel bad about the people from Jacob's LM. They didn't deserve it. But, then, that's why Ronald Taylor was such a shit for turning them into that. I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 1, 2017 4:03:49 GMT
I don't see that as gameplay padding. If we still had grenades, maybe we could have done something to not kill them, but a fight still would have happened. On Feros, we still had to launch those anti-Thorian gas grenades at the colonists so action was taking place. The fact that it wasn't causing deaths doesn't change that. I do feel bad about the people from Jacob's LM. They didn't deserve it. But, then, that's why Ronald Taylor was such a shit for turning them into that. I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers. True enough, even though in my playthroughs it is something of a secondary mission to thin down those ranks. But I think that's a consequence of how things are presented in the game and me just roleplaying to fit what we get. I don't necessarily mind the fighting, though, but I see where you're coming from. Might be why some have thought ME2 was the beginning of the series being an FPS with RP added in.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 1, 2017 4:07:54 GMT
I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers. True enough, even though in my playthroughs it is something of a secondary mission to thin down those ranks. But I think that's a consequence of how things are presented in the game and me just roleplaying to fit what we get. I don't necessarily mind the fighting, though, but I see where you're coming from. Might be why some have thought ME2 was the beginning of the series being an FPS with RP added in. I enjoyed Samara's loyalty mission because it didn't have any actual fighting (well until their confrontation, but it was all story). Of course, all of that pew pew to track Morinth was taken care of on her recruitment mission, ha. Thane's was OK too, but it's hard not to get distracted by the techno turian.
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Monica21
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Chaotic Good
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Monica21 on Jun 1, 2017 11:56:16 GMT
I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers. If you're uninterested in shooting pixels in a shooter/RPG then I'm sure there are other games you would prefer to play. The fact is that what you're getting is a shooter with heavy RPG elements, so to complain about this like it's real people and Shepard should care about shooting mercs in what's essentially a compressed war zone is taking empathy a bit far.
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Post by kalasaurus on Jun 1, 2017 12:11:38 GMT
I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers. If you're uninterested in shooting pixels in a shooter/RPG then I'm sure there are other games you would prefer to play. The fact is that what you're getting is a shooter with heavy RPG elements, so to complain about this like it's real people and Shepard should care about shooting mercs in what's essentially a compressed war zone is taking empathy a bit far. The thread is titled "unpopular opinions", so I went in here posting my opinion. It was a part of the game I didn't like. It doesn't mean I disliked the whole game, and I was responding to someone on that topic.
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Post by SpaceBard on Jun 1, 2017 15:46:27 GMT
This are my thoughts:
- Romance in ME1 sounds forced. - The process of unmasking Sarem in the first game sounds very covenient (all solved within the Citadel). - I do not like Kaidan's personality change, since his bisexuality was not introduced in the first game. - Drell is cool but Thane is an emo, seriosly he wanted the femShep a his therapist. - I do not care about Kay Lang, but he proves to be very incompetent in the fight against Thane and to leave the loyal Miranda alive when she was practically kneeling VERY ClOSE to him. - The colored desing of the end of ME3 was lazy. Could ended thit a big moral choice. - During Priority: Earth, Anderson strategy was dull in not acepting air reinforcement in a critical time (Harbringer time). - I want a duel Harbringer vs Normandy.
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Post by shechinah on Jun 1, 2017 18:57:48 GMT
I don't see that as gameplay padding. If we still had grenades, maybe we could have done something to not kill them, but a fight still would have happened. On Feros, we still had to launch those anti-Thorian gas grenades at the colonists so action was taking place. The fact that it wasn't causing deaths doesn't change that. Actually, the colonists on Feros could also be knocked out by a melee attack. Unlike in other portions of the game, this was not counted as a kill and was an alternative to the grenades that came in a limited amount. Something similar could have been implemented in Jacob's loyalty mission especially since those people weren't wearing armor as well, from what I recall.
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Post by nougat on Jun 11, 2017 10:15:49 GMT
- Not giving the copy of classified data on geth and revealing Admiral Rael’Zorah crimes does more good for Tali'Zorah' growth. - ME3 Mordin Solus is an imposter. His widely acclaimed 'redemption' is petty moralizing, eye-rolling stuff. His "had to be me, someone else might have gotten it wrong" mantra quickly grew tiresome. - The method of killing the Thorian is as brutal as the aciding the Rachni queen. - Wreav was dumbed down [from his ME2' self] to elevate Wrex’ status and give the Tuchanka arc some complexity instead of, you know, giving the pro-genophage position (Linron) actually well-written argumentation and respect or substantially addressing the Krogan Rebellions and population policy. - I prefer cutscenes with Shepard killing both Saren Arterius and The Illusive Man instead of talking them into the suicide. Especially Saren. - Patrick Weekes' work on morality allocation in ME is clearly personal bias-filled stuff and cannot be trusted or taken as impartial. Interesting, how concealing the war crimes and brainwashing are ‘paragon’-y, okay... Though I understand that the system itself is no help.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 11, 2017 12:45:52 GMT
I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers. If you're uninterested in shooting pixels in a shooter/RPG then I'm sure there are other games you would prefer to play. The fact is that what you're getting is a shooter with heavy RPG elements, so to complain about this like it's real people and Shepard should care about shooting mercs in what's essentially a compressed war zone is taking empathy a bit far. So what your saying is...
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jul 6, 2017 19:01:30 GMT
... I got myself into an internet argument, so appropriately unpopular opinion moment: I still love Cortez romance more than BroShep/Kaidan romance.... there.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 6, 2017 20:22:14 GMT
I don't see that as gameplay padding. If we still had grenades, maybe we could have done something to not kill them, but a fight still would have happened. On Feros, we still had to launch those anti-Thorian gas grenades at the colonists so action was taking place. The fact that it wasn't causing deaths doesn't change that. I do feel bad about the people from Jacob's LM. They didn't deserve it. But, then, that's why Ronald Taylor was such a shit for turning them into that. I saw it as another excuse to pew pew unrelated to the actual core plot. Shepard mowed through them without batting an eyelash or taking into consideration that they can't help it. As for the mercs in the other missions, most of them imo were unnecessary. There may have been some in-story reason why they were there, but most of them came off as trivial and boiled down to "let's shoot stuff" to get to the actual core part of the loyalty missions themselves. For example, the Cerberus lab in Jack's loyalty mission just happened to have mercs there under the command of Aresh. Some reasons made more sense than others, but Shepard was investigating the Collectors, not going on a mission to thin down the galaxy's merc numbers. In terms of Jacob's LM, I agree, if we were given the means to pacify those guys in a non-lethal way, that would have been great. In general, non-lethal weapons of some sort would have been a nice idea for paragon players. Deus Ex showed how it can be rewarding to entangle gameplay and dialogue in that sense, make it a bit harder to use non-lethal weapons but get some acknowledgement in dialogue for it. That said, I didn't exactly have too much of a problem defending myself against the attacking hunters in Jacob's LM. At the time, Shepard and team have very little idea of what exactly is going on. All they see is a bunch of people who start shooting at them and they need to defend themselves. Once they discover what's happening in the camp, they shoot only mechs and 2-3 of Taylor's guards (by the way, what was the deal with the guards? Were they sane or not? If not, why weren't they hunters like the rest? If they were, who were they? I thought Taylor killed all the officers?) As for Pargia, Well, there was a point to Aresh being there beyond the pewpew and I have to say, the mercs did improve the pacing of the mission quite a bit, so I don't mind that. After all, ME2 does have two LMs that have no gun play whatsoever, so they weren't opposed to it, they just felt that mission needed some fights (and Id agree with them). It's similar to the turret section during the goodbye scenes in the final earth section of ME3. A lot of people criticized that turret section as bein pointless. I disagree. I do think it provided a necessary distraction and reminder that we are still in this war zone in between talking to everybody like they were on a conveyor belt. Pacing is important and IMO, the MET gets that just right 99% of the time.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 6, 2017 20:47:18 GMT
It's similar to the turret section during the goodbye scenes in the final earth section of ME3. A lot of people criticized that turret section as bein pointless. I disagree. I do think it provided a necessary distraction and reminder that we are still in this war zone in between talking to everybody like they were on a conveyor belt. Pacing is important and IMO, the MET gets that just right 99% of the time. I view that scene more of a motivational thing for the troops than anything else. They see Shepard, a hero, fighting the enemy which gives them that extra incentive to fight.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 6, 2017 20:52:33 GMT
It's similar to the turret section during the goodbye scenes in the final earth section of ME3. A lot of people criticized that turret section as bein pointless. I disagree. I do think it provided a necessary distraction and reminder that we are still in this war zone in between talking to everybody like they were on a conveyor belt. Pacing is important and IMO, the MET gets that just right 99% of the time. I view that scene more of a motivational thing for the troops than anything else. They see Shepard, a hero, fighting the enemy which gives them that extra incentive to fight. That's a fair assessment in terms of the story for sure. I guess I saw it more of a coincidence. Reapers happen to attack while Shep walks by -> Shep gets on turret and shoots reapers. But that one works just as well. I was just more thinking in terms of mission design. If I were a level/game designer and I had looked at all those goodbye scenes in a row without the turret section during development, I'd probably also have said "we need some break-up in there or it'll get to monotonous, ticking the conversation check box for each character". Whether it had to be turret section, that can be argued but IMO it works fine as a little breaker in between (and it was probably one of the cheapest ways to implement it).
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Post by themikefest on Jul 6, 2017 21:13:14 GMT
That's a fair assessment in terms of the story for sure. I guess I saw it more of a coincidence. Reapers happen to attack while Shep walks by -> Shep gets on turret and shoots reapers. But that one works just as well. I was just more thinking in terms of mission design. If I were a level/game designer and I had looked at all those goodbye scenes in a row without the turret section during development, I'd probably also have said "we need some break-up in there or it'll get to monotonous, ticking the conversation check box for each character". Whether it had to be turret section, that can be argued but IMO it works fine as a little breaker in between (and it was probably one of the cheapest ways to implement it). I would get rid of the goodbyes and the turret scene and just have Shepard meet with Anderson and others to plan their attack.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 6, 2017 21:22:53 GMT
That's a fair assessment in terms of the story for sure. I guess I saw it more of a coincidence. Reapers happen to attack while Shep walks by -> Shep gets on turret and shoots reapers. But that one works just as well. I was just more thinking in terms of mission design. If I were a level/game designer and I had looked at all those goodbye scenes in a row without the turret section during development, I'd probably also have said "we need some break-up in there or it'll get to monotonous, ticking the conversation check box for each character". Whether it had to be turret section, that can be argued but IMO it works fine as a little breaker in between (and it was probably one of the cheapest ways to implement it). I would get rid of the goodbyes and the turret scene and just have Shepard meet with Anderson and others to plan their attack. Well, if we were to redesign the entire thing, I'd have Shepard meet all of the guys in the field while fighting, sort of struggling on from foxhole to foxhole, meeting our guys in various situations (get saved by sniping Garrus, meet Jack and her students who do whatever you assigned them to earlier, join Wrex and Grunt for a krogan offensive and so on). But, since I guess that was not in the budget, I think the goodbye scenes as they are were a nice touch. Especially when taking into account that the original ending pre EC had no slides or memorial. It was the last time you'd see them in the entire game. So I think some moment of catharsis with every one of them was needed there.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 6, 2017 21:27:08 GMT
Well, if we were to redesign the entire thing, I'd have Shepard meet all of the guys in the field while fighting, sort of going from foxhole to foxhole, meeting our guys in various situations (get saved by sniping Garrus, meet Jack and her students who do whatever you assigned them to earlier, join Wrex and Grunt for a krogan offensive and so on). But, since I guess that was not in the budget, I think the godbye scenes as they are were a nice touch. Especially when taking into account that the original ending pre EC had no slides or memorial. It was the last time you'd see them in the entire game. So I think some moment of katharsis with every one of them was needed there. The reason why I wouldn't have the goodbyes in London is because Shepard will say to Anderson, "every minute we waste, the reapers gather strength". How many minutes were wasted for the goodbyes? I would have them on the Normandy as they're heading to Earth.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 7, 2017 0:50:54 GMT
Kai Leng is a great villian. Not that he is a good character or anything but he is so digustingly repulsive, that I wanted to kill him more than anyone else.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 15, 2017 0:06:14 GMT
I cannot play Renegade in ME3, in first 2 games being renegade is basically being a ruthless badass but in ME3 you basically turn into a murderous maniac
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Post by themikefest on Jul 15, 2017 0:27:24 GMT
I cannot play Renegade in ME3, in first 2 games being renegade is basically being a ruthless badass but in ME3 you basically turn into a murderous maniac Only if you choose to murder everyone. The player can still be renegade without doing that. I've played renegade many times without having killed everyone.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by brfritos on Jul 15, 2017 1:07:18 GMT
I cannot play Renegade in ME3, in first 2 games being renegade is basically being a ruthless badass but in ME3 you basically turn into a murderous maniac Only if you choose to murder everyone. The player can still be renegade without doing that. I've played renegade many times without having killed everyone. ME3 renegade/paragon is in fact better than previous games because of that. You can be a jerk but don't have necessarily to kill everyone. Or you can be a saint or at least fair, but your decision can cause the exctintion of a entire race.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 18, 2017 21:28:35 GMT
Only if you choose to murder everyone. The player can still be renegade without doing that. I've played renegade many times without having killed everyone. ME3 renegade/paragon is in fact better than previous games because of that. You can be a jerk but don't have necessarily to kill everyone. Or you can be a saint or at least fair, but your decision can cause the exctintion of a entire race. Or an entire galaxy of races. Remember you can always pick the decision are hard/my ego is most important option at the end.
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Guts
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Guts on Jul 18, 2017 21:48:58 GMT
Would it be unpopular to say that I just hated Liara's character development?
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