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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 19, 2017 0:17:37 GMT
Would it be unpopular to say that I just hated Liara's character development? I think the biggest problem as other have said before is that the core character development takes place not in the game but comics.
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Post by Guts on Jul 19, 2017 2:48:43 GMT
Would it be unpopular to say that I just hated Liara's character development? I think the biggest problem as other have said before is that the core character development takes place not in the game but comics. Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. Even then, it could be argued that she acts in the comics how she does in LoTSB. I just felt her characterization between each game was very erratic. I also had a major problem with Bioware constantly shoving her into important roles and having her suddenly develop extreme competence in random skills out of the blue. I mean if it's archaeology stuff, then I don't have a problem with it, like finding the crucible as she was established in ME1 as being an archaeologist, but stuff like becoming an info broker within two years, taking into account her personality in the first game, as well as having her recover Shepard's body, again, she was the greenest member of Shepard's team even by the end of ME1. Having her become the Shadow Broker was ridiculous tbh, the SB is basically an info broker but with a shitload more political power, something that, in ME1 at least, never appealed to her. This also kind of ties into the fact that not everyone likes her, as themikefest has stated in the past.
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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 19, 2017 22:37:32 GMT
- Garrus is extremely over-rated and not a well written character. Many of his scenes try way too hard to make him seem like your best bro.
- Liara sucks. I hate this character more than anyone in the series.
- Ashley is a good character and her romance is very good. Though its a bit weak in ME3.
- Kaidan is one of my favorite characters in the series regardless of Shepard's gender (and I save him more than Ash regardless of gender).
- Jacob isn't that bad, especially if you are broshep.
- Kasumi is the best looking girl with the best personality in the series and I wish she could be my Mass Effect bae.
- Jennifer Hale's voice acting is overall good, but some of her dialogue is really badly delivered. And I think Meer is better overall.
- ME3's Destroy ending is the only ending that makes sense to me. And with the EC its actually not half bad and I like it.
Those are just the few I can think of.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Jul 20, 2017 6:55:06 GMT
Unpopular opinions: - for some reasons I really like Kaidan and Ashley, and bring them with Shepard to almost every mission in ME1. The sacrifice also really feels heavy on Virmire.
- Garrus was very uninteresting character in ME1 and did not have a development curve. The person who write him in ME2 and 3 earns a medal.
- I don't mind Kai Leng too much. Killing him is one of the best moments in ME3 and chasing him in Citadel is thrilling. Annoying character but brings great action to the title.
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Post by Guts on Jul 21, 2017 0:40:08 GMT
- Garrus is extremely over-rated and not a well written character. Many of his scenes try way too hard to make him seem like your best bro. - Liara sucks. I hate this character more than anyone in the series. - Ashley is a good character and her romance is very good. Though its a bit weak in ME3. - Kaidan is one of my favorite characters in the series regardless of Shepard's gender (and I save him more than Ash regardless of gender). - Jacob isn't that bad, especially if you are broshep. - Kasumi is the best looking girl with the best personality in the series and I wish she could be my Mass Effect bae. - Jennifer Hale's voice acting is overall good, but some of her dialogue is really badly delivered. And I think Meer is better overall. - ME3's Destroy ending is the only ending that makes sense to me. And with the EC its actually not half bad and I like it. Those are just the few I can think of. I always went with the destory ending. I think the reapers deserved to die and plus you live if your EMS is high enough. (Bioware confirmed this)
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 21, 2017 6:09:19 GMT
I wish they'd create stealth gameplay.
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Post by Guts on Jul 21, 2017 7:09:35 GMT
I wish they'd create stealth gameplay. A Mass Effect game with Deus Ex style gameplay and an open-ended approach to completing your objectives? SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
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Post by brfritos on Jul 21, 2017 23:24:52 GMT
- I don't mind Kai Leng too much. Killing him is one of the best moments in ME3 and chasing him in Citadel is thrilling. Annoying character but brings great action to the title. The problem definitely is not Kai Leng, but how Shepard and crew react when dealing with him. The action for the most part is great, the problem is Bioware watched too much Dolph Lundgren's action movies instead of Bruce Willis or Arnold Schwarzenegger ones. Funny but subtle thing though. When chasing him with a C-Sec car during the Citadel coup, when Kai Leng jumps over your car Shepard looks to his/her squadmates, who are basically doing nothing, with a face like "what the hell you two are doing? shoot him"! Shepard is driving after all. Even the first time I've remembered when rescuing Liara at Therum and the krogan battlemaster confront us, Shepard yells: "[what are you morons doing], he's surrounded by geth and pointing a gun at us, shoot him".
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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 22, 2017 0:42:34 GMT
- Garrus is extremely over-rated and not a well written character. Many of his scenes try way too hard to make him seem like your best bro. - Liara sucks. I hate this character more than anyone in the series. - Ashley is a good character and her romance is very good. Though its a bit weak in ME3. - Kaidan is one of my favorite characters in the series regardless of Shepard's gender (and I save him more than Ash regardless of gender). - Jacob isn't that bad, especially if you are broshep. - Kasumi is the best looking girl with the best personality in the series and I wish she could be my Mass Effect bae. - Jennifer Hale's voice acting is overall good, but some of her dialogue is really badly delivered. And I think Meer is better overall. - ME3's Destroy ending is the only ending that makes sense to me. And with the EC its actually not half bad and I like it. Those are just the few I can think of. I always went with the destory ending. I think the reapers deserved to die and plus you live if your EMS is high enough. (Bioware confirmed this) It also doesn't help that the Synthesis ending is really stupid, doesn't make sense, and leaves the game in an overly idyllic state. The ending is too perfect and too boring. And I don't think changing everyone into one DNA is right. The series has been about embracing our differences and then coming together to fight the Reapers. Synthesis is almost exactly what the Reapers want. And they get to live also. I like the concept of Control. The ending actually is kind of epic in its own way and that theme song certainly helps. But no one man should have that kind of power. Even a Paragon Shepard. Plus the whole time Shepard goes on about destroying the Reapers for peace. Him/her having a last second change of mind makes little to no sense. Destroy feels the most appropriate, has the most satisfying and diverse outcomes depending on EMS and your Shepard can potentially live. I don't mind if Shepard lives or dies. Him/her dying has a bittersweet feeling to it that also feels appropriate. It also feels like the most plausible outcome because some things can be left in disarray after the war which is realistic in some ways. Not everything ends up being perfect like the other two endings and the galaxy needs time to rebuild on their own. Its the best ending by far.
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Post by Guts on Jul 22, 2017 16:28:00 GMT
I always went with the destory ending. I think the reapers deserved to die and plus you live if your EMS is high enough. (Bioware confirmed this) It also doesn't help that the Synthesis ending is really stupid, doesn't make sense, and leaves the game in an overly idyllic state. The ending is too perfect and too boring. And I don't think changing everyone into one DNA is right. The series has been about embracing our differences and then coming together to fight the Reapers. Synthesis is almost exactly what the Reapers want. And they get to live also. I like the concept of Control. The ending actually is kind of epic in its own way and that theme song certainly helps. But no one man should have that kind of power. Even a Paragon Shepard. Plus the whole time Shepard goes on about destroying the Reapers for peace. Him/her having a last second change of mind makes little to no sense. Destroy feels the most appropriate, has the most satisfying and diverse outcomes depending on EMS and your Shepard can potentially live. I don't mind if Shepard lives or dies. Him/her dying has a bittersweet feeling to it that also feels appropriate. It also feels like the most plausible outcome because some things can be left in disarray after the war which is realistic in some ways. Not everything ends up being perfect like the other two endings and the galaxy needs time to rebuild on their own. Its the best ending by far. Agreed, though I despise the idea of killing myself to control all reapers (Though if you are renegade then Shepard becomes power hungry IIRC). With synthesis, an all of sudden utopian galaxy? I dislike the idea of a utopia a lot.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 22, 2017 16:53:16 GMT
- I don't mind Kai Leng too much. Killing him is one of the best moments in ME3 and chasing him in Citadel is thrilling. Annoying character but brings great action to the title. The problem definitely is not Kai Leng, but how Shepard and crew react when dealing with him. I disagree. The problem with Kai Leng is the "plot armor". The fact that he can't be beat until the plot says he has to die. Or how he tries to call Shepard and Co weak while constantly running away and hiding to recover his shields. So the problem was less Kai Leng and more with how he was improperly used.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 22, 2017 17:07:11 GMT
I disagree. The problem with Kai Leng is the "plot armor". The fact that he can't be beat until the plot says he has to die. Or how he tries to call Shepard and Co weak while constantly running away and hiding to recover his shields. So the problem was less Kai Leng and more with how he was improperly used. The problem I had with Leng is he's referred to as an assassin when he doesn't act like one. Why didn't he kill the councilor right away? Why didn't he kill the asari instead of throwing her across the screen?
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Post by shechinah on Jul 22, 2017 18:58:41 GMT
I'm of the opinion that Mass Effect 2 was filler. It was enjoyable filler but filler nonetheless.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 22, 2017 19:02:18 GMT
Would it be unpopular to say that I just hated Liara's character development? It always felt to me like Liara was inserted into certain roles not because it made sense for her character or as the result of naturally progressing character development but because the writers needed her to fit those roles. Speaking of potentially unpopular opinions about Liara: I preferred her appearance in ME1 and felt her appearance in the latter games just looked downright weird and uncanny. I also didn't like her iconic armor.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 22, 2017 20:07:35 GMT
I'm of the opinion that Mass Effect 2 was filler. It was enjoyable filler but filler nonetheless. I've heard ME3 be referred to as "ME1, part 2", implying ME2 derailed from the plot. However, had the gone the route of the ME2 crew going independent in ME3, it would have worked better.
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Post by Guts on Jul 22, 2017 20:41:29 GMT
Would it be unpopular to say that I just hated Liara's character development? It always felt to me like Liara was inserted into certain roles not because it made sense for her character or as the result of naturally progressing character development but because the writers needed her to fit those roles. Speaking of potentially unpopular opinions about Liara: I preferred her appearance in ME1 and felt her appearance in the latter games just looked downright weird and uncanny. I also didn't like her iconic armor. Agreed on all fronts. ME1 Liara looked better with the scientist outfit, which fit her character from the first game. I also don't think she should've been the one to rescue Shepard's body from the shadow broker. This could've easily been accomplished by Cerberus, especially considering that she was the greenest member of the team in ME1. I personally regard the later "Liaras" as two completely different characters. Or one with really good acting abilities.
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Post by brfritos on Jul 23, 2017 18:32:12 GMT
The problem definitely is not Kai Leng, but how Shepard and crew react when dealing with him. I disagree. The problem with Kai Leng is the "plot armor". The fact that he can't be beat until the plot says he has to die. Or how he tries to call Shepard and Co weak while constantly running away and hiding to recover his shields. So the problem was less Kai Leng and more with how he was improperly used. Ok, that's another way to put it. But I think we can agree that his potential as credible villain is wasted in ME3. I don't have formal education in narrative techinique, literary language or even a degree in english literature, but I think the writers intend Kai Leng to be portraited as the opposite of Shepard's personality and he's also jealous of him/her. The problem is the story in ME3 is very cryptic sometimes. I understand and agree that not all of explanations and plots need to be disclosured to the reader or player. Handwaving like they say, is good to think and speculate about some events in fiction stories. But the story in ME3 is very cryptic sometimes and Bioware incorporated the terrible habit of not explaining some events if they were published in books or comic books before. I think critical information should be displayed in the game, not in books or comics. The glaring example is the change in Liara personality in ME2. At least put something for the player to work on it, like they did regarding Cerberus and the quarians for example. So Liara goes from the "caretaker" figure of ME1 to ruthless bitch in ME2 because she recovered Shepard's body and then gave it to Cerberus? Why? What happened? If you read the comic book you will know why the change. In the end, even with plot armor, Kail Leng seems more goofy than any other thing. Miranda has plot armor in ME2 and while she's not the best character written in history of videogames, at the same time she's not a bad or goofy one. She's just common. I'm not talking about the mechanic of having a character with plot armor, it's the most cheap and lazy solution if you want your character to survive until a certain event in your game. Whom of you don't remember Miranda being abducted by seeker swarms in the long walk and then reapper moments later at the door? LOL And removing player control of the action on Thessia after it was iniciated hurted even more the character. Heck, at least on Virmire I can rationalize what happened: Shepard destroyed Saren's flying plataform, the explosion knocked Shepard making her/him dizziness and Saren took advantage of it. The rest of the event all happens in cutscenes, just like Thessia. I disagree. The problem with Kai Leng is the "plot armor". The fact that he can't be beat until the plot says he has to die. Or how he tries to call Shepard and Co weak while constantly running away and hiding to recover his shields. So the problem was less Kai Leng and more with how he was improperly used. The problem I had with Leng is he's referred to as an assassin when he doesn't act like one. Why didn't he kill the councilor right away? Why didn't he kill the asari instead of throwing her across the screen? So much hate for Liara, mike... He need to fight three oponents and if you look closely, he actually throw Liara to neutralize the second squadmate and then raise a barrier to stop Shepard shots. The scene is a typical movie scene, because that's not how a fight with multiple opponents works, specially because all of them are armed with some weapon. But we are talking about people who can cure cancer with medi-gel, their weapons have miniaturized block cutting machines and they are capable of survive reentry on a planet with body armor. So who knows, everything is possible.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 23, 2017 19:13:46 GMT
So Liara goes from the "caretaker" figure of ME1 to ruthless bitch in ME2 because she recovered Shepard's body and then gave it to Cerberus? Why? What happened? If you read the comic book you will know why the change. She was all that in the comics? I doubt that. If she is, why wasn't that carried into the videogame? In the broker dlc, she came across as a cry baby, a wimp. Makes me wonder why the character was a squadmate. In ME3, she wasn't much better. Has that happened? The only time she can die on the suicide mission is holding the line and fighting 3 eyes Why didn't he have his babysitter fire at the supports right away instead of wasting time fighting Shepard and squad? Killing Liara or at least stabbing her would give pause to Shepard and the other squadmate for the ponytail to put up his barrier and order the babysitter to fire at the supports. What about Liara? She stands there like a dumba** with her tentacles stuck up her fifth point contact instead of firing at the ponytail. Why is she a squadmate? Remember Mars? Ashley/Kaidan were in a similar postion when the evabot attack them. They didn't stand there like idiots. They fired at the thing. Yes they ended up seriously injured, but at least they made an effort to stop the thing. I guess the player learns one thing about the asari. She likes to fly on Kai Leng Airlines.
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Post by brfritos on Jul 23, 2017 19:52:21 GMT
So Liara goes from the "caretaker" figure of ME1 to ruthless bitch in ME2 because she recovered Shepard's body and then gave it to Cerberus? Why? What happened? If you read the comic book you will know why the change. She was all that in the comics? I doubt that. If she is, why wasn't that carried into the videogame? In the broker dlc, she came across as a cry baby, a wimp. Makes me wonder why the character was a squadmate. In ME3, she wasn't much better. Actually the story is not that great, since you asked. At least they provided a explanation, even if it's a bad one. In ME Foundations #05 and #06 for example Miranda is also a cry baby too, totally off-character and Jacob is the hero who saves the day. So... yeah... There was even a video on the old BSN board, right when ME2 was released, Ecael made it. LOL You answered your own question: why Kai Leng didn't fired at the supports right of the bat instead of wasting time fighting Shepard? Like I said, is the typical bad action movie scene, it doesn't make sense. And it hurts Kai Leng's character in the end. I like Liara and asari "tentacles".
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Post by thelonelypoet on Jul 23, 2017 20:42:47 GMT
The problem definitely is not Kai Leng, but how Shepard and crew react when dealing with him. I disagree. The problem with Kai Leng is the "plot armor". The fact that he can't be beat until the plot says he has to die. Or how he tries to call Shepard and Co weak while constantly running away and hiding to recover his shields. So the problem was less Kai Leng and more with how he was improperly used. Heh. Seems that I have the real unpopular opinion then since it has sparked so many arguments. Liking him is hard, but like I sad, I just don't mind him too much, and the sweet goodbyes from Shepard "that was for Thane, you sone of a bitch!" is almost worth all the ninja drama.
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Post by thelonelypoet on Jul 23, 2017 20:47:46 GMT
HA!
Realized one MAJOR unpopular opinion, too!
I am enough sadistic to enjoy the message from Kai Leng.
I just leave it there and vanish now.
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Post by Wildfire on Jul 24, 2017 14:18:36 GMT
- I always make sure Jacob dies in the suicide mission because I can't hear Brynne without hearing FemHawke, and I like my FemHawke too much to subject her to Jacob.
Ahahaha this just made my day
Personally, I don't connect characters with the same VAs all that strongly to each other. Still, I admit that I was also a bit conflicted when I found out that by saving Jacob, I had involuntarily hooked him up with Brynn. I mean, Jacob is one of the saddest guys in the ME universe and deserves some (limited) happiness, but not THAT much happiness. And Hawke deserves immeasurably better than Jacob
It would be so comical if they actually ended up together. A good crossover fanfic in the making? The compelling love story between Hawke, the controversial and interesting figure, and Jacob, who is, well, Jacob.
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Post by apocalypticham on Jul 24, 2017 15:40:21 GMT
I hate Tali.
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Post by brfritos on Jul 25, 2017 4:26:48 GMT
I hate Tali. Don't need to cover, a lot of people don't like Tali too. And Liara, always Liara. People cry a lot about the goddess of the Galaxy.
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apocalypticham
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Post by apocalypticham on Jul 25, 2017 15:59:36 GMT
I hate Tali. Don't need to cover, a lot of people don't like Tali too. And Liara, always Liara. People cry a lot about the goddess of the Galaxy. Ugh I like the Asari but Liara She'd be at least tolerable if BW didn't try to shove her down everybody's throat (yeah yeah I know I'm hating her for the same o reason but whatever).
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