brfritos
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Post by brfritos on Jul 25, 2017 18:25:29 GMT
Don't need to cover, a lot of people don't like Tali too. And Liara, always Liara. People cry a lot about the goddess of the Galaxy. Ugh I like the Asari but Liara She'd be at least tolerable if BW didn't try to shove her down everybody's throat (yeah yeah I know I'm hating her for the same o reason but whatever). Every author has his or her favorite character, I don't see the problem. If you are talking about Liara character development then I give you reason for that, because it happens in the comics, not in the game itself. Which is strange, since Bioware always talk about "character development". Is pure fandom of my part, I know. LOL How about another unpopular opinion: someone can give me one reason to choose the quarians over the geth? Besides Tali, of course. What is our purpose in the war? Gather assets and forge alliances to slow the reapers while the Crucible is being constructed. So I have tens of millions to 1 billion geth plataforms available versus at best 17 million quarians and their ships. I'm not even taking into consideration the fact that quarian numbers are lower than that, because there are children, civilians, non-military personal and etc among this 17 millions.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 25, 2017 19:55:58 GMT
How about another unpopular opinion: someone can give me one reason to choose the quarians over the geth? Reaper code. There is nothing that can convince me the geth won't continue to shoot at Shepard after the code has been uploaded. The geth sided with the reapers to survive. How does Shepard know they aren't doing the same when he/she has to choose a side?
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Post by shechinah on Jul 25, 2017 20:33:12 GMT
Every author has his or her favorite character, I don't see the problem. I do agree that every author tends to have a favorite character but authors should always take care that this love for a character does begin to negatively impact the story. Favoritism for a character that sometimes result in a lack of awareness about how that character is presented. This is often, in my experience, what leads to the dislike for a Creator's Pet. I'll see if I can explain what I mean: While George R. R. Martin loves all his characters, he has said that he loves the character Tyrion Lannister the most. What keeps that love from becoming favoritism and taking overhand is that he does not exempt or shield Tyrion's character from things that are unpleasant or doing things that are unpleasant. Tyrion remains a flawed person whose flaws are acknowledged and whose character development, positive or negative, make sense given what he deals with. There are times where he's humiliated and times where he gets the upper hand. What Tyrion accomplishes also tends to be because he made an effort to achieve them and when the effort pays off, it is in a believable way. While there are times where luck saves his hide, luck is not always there nor is it always how he manages to escape certain situations. To contrast, there is the character Tyrion Lannister in the Game of Thrones series who has become significantly different and who I'd consider to be an example of favoritism taking overhand later on. This Tyrion practically sails through events in comparison to his book counterpart without facing much of any real obstacle and is even granted positions that he hasn't earned in a believable way. Basically, favoritism making the writers give special treatment to a character. Source: grrm.livejournal.com/381419.html
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Post by brfritos on Jul 25, 2017 20:46:44 GMT
How about another unpopular opinion: someone can give me one reason to choose the quarians over the geth? Reaper code. There is nothing that can convince me the geth won't continue to shoot at Shepard after the code has been uploaded. The geth sided with the reapers to survive. How does Shepard know they aren't doing the same when he/she has to choose a side? Like Shepard having reaper tech implanted into his/her skull? Or using reaper tech to fight the reapers? That's why it's called "alliance". Or "treaty" if you like. Also, you are forgeting that even the geth aren't confortable siding with the reapers, they did it to survive because the quarians had superior technology. Once the code is uploaded they become "individuals", capable of surviving on their own without relying on alliances with the reapers. Are you refering to the risks? Of course there are risks involved. Like start building the Crucible without even understanding what it does or how it works.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 25, 2017 21:45:46 GMT
Like Shepard having reaper tech implanted into his/her skull? Or using reaper tech to fight the reapers? Is there anything that says Shepard has reaper tech implanted in her/his skull? I'm not forgetting anything. They wanted to survive. They may be doing the same to get Shepard to choose them Is there anything proving that will happen outside of what the geth says? And if that risk backfires, the galaxy may not have enough left to stop the reapers after dealing with the geth. Or how previous cycles were able to add to the thing without knowing if what they added would do anything
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Post by Guts on Jul 25, 2017 23:01:56 GMT
Every author has his or her favorite character, I don't see the problem. I do agree that every author tends to have a favorite character but authors should always take care that this love for a character does begin to negatively impact the story. Favoritism for a character that sometimes result in a lack of awareness about how that character is presented. This is often, in my experience, what leads to the dislike for a Creator's Pet. I'll see if I can explain what I mean: While George R. R. Martin loves all his characters, he has said that he loves the character Tyrion Lannister the most. What keeps that love from becoming favoritism and taking overhand is that he does not exempt or shield Tyrion's character from things that are unpleasant or doing things that are unpleasant. Tyrion remains a flawed person whose flaws are acknowledged and whose character development, positive or negative, make sense given what he deals with. There are times where he's humiliated and times where he gets the upper hand. What Tyrion accomplishes also tends to be because he made an effort to achieve them and when the effort pays off, it is in a believable way. While there are times where luck saves his hide, luck is not always there nor is it always how he manages to escape certain situations. To contrast, there is the character Tyrion Lannister in the Game of Thrones series who has become significantly different and who I'd consider to be an example of favoritism taking overhand later on. This Tyrion practically sails through events in comparison to his book counterpart without facing much of any real obstacle and is even granted positions that he hasn't earned in a believable way. Basically, favoritism making the writers give special treatment to a character. Source: grrm.livejournal.com/381419.htmlSucks that Bioware didn't do what George R. R. Martin did, they could've expressed favoritism towards Liara whilst having her develop as an archaeologist, she becomes hardened sure, but she sticks to her character, but no, instead someone on the writing team fell in love with Liara to a point where they completely disregarded any sense of logic with character development and felt they should do everything they could to make their blue waifu look cool. As a result it felt like the plot itself was being manipulated to give Liara an important role, regardless of whether or not it makes any lick of sense given how she was portrayed in ME1. (I haven't watched GoT much)
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Post by brfritos on Jul 26, 2017 0:53:12 GMT
Like Shepard having reaper tech implanted into his/her skull? Or using reaper tech to fight the reapers? Is there anything that says Shepard has reaper tech implanted in her/his skull? A statement clearly saying "Shepard has reaper tech"? No of course not, the game leave it open. It's more intuition than anything else. Don't know, Legion v1.0 is pretty straightforward with us, Legion v2.0 is the problem. Yes, I know, in the geth server mission he also use the opportunity to save more of his people without telling us. He has justification to do it, the Quarians would not approve the operation if they knew it. Xen don't even care about it, she's only interested in gaining control over those Primes, not the fact they were activated. Also won't we do the same if the positions were in reverse? Common mike, it's the survival of the galaxy at stake. You take a chance or not, but this kind of circular logic is getting old. Ok, I don't like to use political quotes because they tend to cause disagreements, but that's the only thing I have at the moment: If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons - Winston ChurchillHow exactly we will need to deal with the geth? We are fighting to destroy the reapers, right? And we use the Crucible to destroy them, which in turn will destroy every synthetic life in the galaxy, including the geth. So no, we won't need to worry about them later. Or building the thing and then in the middle of the road discovering that firing it would destroy the entire galaxy because the local distribution forgot to send the correct screwdriver we still need to find the missing piece?
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Post by yan on Jul 26, 2017 6:16:04 GMT
It was funny that Bioware left their precious Liara out of the 2 (but gave a hughe dlc only to her) and did the same with VS, so that the two could not die and left there Garus and Tali who sincerely had already fulfilled their role in history, but the shot backfired and the last two grew too much in the taste of people. So much so that Tali can not even be cut off from squadron in 3, as originally planned.
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Post by kikkai on Jul 26, 2017 15:23:21 GMT
I judge people who think the genophage is a morally defensible act.
Tali is awful and so is Liara.
Shep isn't competent at much else besides being a soldier.
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Post by brfritos on Jul 26, 2017 21:00:31 GMT
Every author has his or her favorite character, I don't see the problem. I do agree that every author tends to have a favorite character but authors should always take care that this love for a character does begin to negatively impact the story. Favoritism for a character that sometimes result in a lack of awareness about how that character is presented. This is often, in my experience, what leads to the dislike for a Creator's Pet. I'll see if I can explain what I mean: While George R. R. Martin loves all his characters, he has said that he loves the character Tyrion Lannister the most. What keeps that love from becoming favoritism and taking overhand is that he does not exempt or shield Tyrion's character from things that are unpleasant or doing things that are unpleasant. Tyrion remains a flawed person whose flaws are acknowledged and whose character development, positive or negative, make sense given what he deals with. There are times where he's humiliated and times where he gets the upper hand. What Tyrion accomplishes also tends to be because he made an effort to achieve them and when the effort pays off, it is in a believable way. While there are times where luck saves his hide, luck is not always there nor is it always how he manages to escape certain situations. To contrast, there is the character Tyrion Lannister in the Game of Thrones series who has become significantly different and who I'd consider to be an example of favoritism taking overhand later on. This Tyrion practically sails through events in comparison to his book counterpart without facing much of any real obstacle and is even granted positions that he hasn't earned in a believable way. Basically, favoritism making the writers give special treatment to a character. Source: grrm.livejournal.com/381419.htmlThe whole problem is how Liara tale is told in the MET, not exactly the character itself. Close to releasing the first ME Bioware released "Revelation" novel, which complement some characters and events in the game. The reading is not required for understanding them, but give depth to them. Before ME2 Bioware also released a second book, "Ascension" novel (which is not bad, but also not that great if you ask me, I have the two books). It work the same way as before, is not required but you have more in depth knowledge of things. Except this time Bioware had to explain more things that weren't in the game and to worse things over, Bioware decided to explain this events not in-game, but through a comic book. Wich was sold apart from the game. That's where the whole problem is. I agree with you that if you favor a character, you have to take extra care for not making them subvert the plot. Which Liara does during certain events. Except this time most people couldn't see the character development because it wasn't in the game, it was in a comic book. Again, sold apart from the main game (facepalm). I'm not saying this do defend Liara or whatever, don't take that way, but you do have to take extra care when dealing with different mediums. Because in the end Liara came out of a weird Diana Troi in "ST:Nemesis", where she was for the most part very different without any explanation. To trouble things over we are forced to take her during certain missions, just like Tali or EDI and a lot of events she's the default character to be present. It's no surprise a lot of people didn't liked her. Also, what was the point of LotSB? Make a quick buck? Fandom? Tell a tale about one character? The DLC don't explain Liara, don't advance her character and don't advance ME plot. You can include the whole ME2 too if you wish. As a total off-topic discussion, with the release of ME:A we finally could see how the development of ME3 was a mess too. Good god, maybe is just a coincidence, but the problems are too similar to be simply "bad management".
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 27, 2017 14:20:28 GMT
I think most people agree that while the change was SHOWN in a comic, it still wasn't a result of character development. Yes, we understand that the change was shown, but it was not a part of character development. She still behaved in a way that was inconsistent with her background and behavior to date. That's not character development. What they did was graft an entirely new behavior onto her.
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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 28, 2017 6:44:00 GMT
I still think its extremely lame that out of all the original ME characters, she is the only one that cannot die, cannot be betrayed (outside of romance, but that's dumb because its not like she dies), and they are constantly trying to push her as your best friend and love interest.
I played through the Citadel DLC last night and I was quite impressed that Javik talked about coming to my aid because I talked to him more than most, but I'm still stuck with Liara saving the day and then flirting with me when I have Jack. The favoritism to Liara actually affects how I enjoy the series sometimes because there is little in the way of choice with her.
I always thought her character arc was lousy, but not having a choice and sometimes being subjected to the character feels wrong. I mean, I like the Shadow Broker DlC, but I'm stuck with Liara as a squadmate. And I really like that scene back on the Normandy where Shep can express concerns and in general express how they feel. But why does it have to be with perfect BFF Liara? I treated her like crap in ME1 and I don't even acknowledge her existence in ME3 and she's still forced on you.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 28, 2017 7:43:04 GMT
I still think its extremely lame that out of all the original ME characters, she is the only one that cannot die, cannot be betrayed (outside of romance, but that's dumb because its not like she dies), and they are constantly trying to push her as your best friend and love interest. I played through the Citadel DLC last night and I was quite impressed that Javik talked about coming to my aid because I talked to him more than most, but I'm still stuck with Liara saving the day and then flirting with me when I have Jack. The favoritism to Liara actually affects how I enjoy the series sometimes because there is little in the way of choice with her. I always thought her character arc was lousy, but not having a choice and sometimes being subjected to the character feels wrong. I mean, I like the Shadow Broker DlC, but I'm stuck with Liara as a squadmate. And I really like that scene back on the Normandy where Shep can express concerns and in general express how they feel. But why does it have to be with perfect BFF Liara? I treated her like crap in ME1 and I don't even acknowledge her existence in ME3 and she's still forced on you. I would totally be on board with an ME1 remaster that gives you three options for death on Virmire, with all of them being love interests. I wonder how many people would love the chance to save both Kaidan and Ashley but allow Liara to die? I'm not a super Ash fan by any means but I'd love to see them double teaming Shepard on Horizon, or maybe you get to have one of them join you on the SR2 while the other sits out ME2 because that person is an "Alliance [wo]man". Repurpose Tela Vasir. Have her join in the hunt to track down the SB, eventually replacing him. Imagine how much better she could serve the Council in that capacity. In ME3, she could return with intel on the Mars Archives and become a squadmate. She would, quite frankly, make more sense than Liara. Now, I don't hate Liara, but if she were a third option to kill on Virmire she'd have a decent shot at dying.
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Post by Wildfire on Jul 28, 2017 10:13:51 GMT
I like all the companions in MET. Some more, some less, but at the end of the day I have warm feelings towards all of them. I'm one of those people who fall head over heels for the romances in ME3 (and in other BW games). I've loved all the romances I've experienced so far and found nothing major to complain about them. Of course, there could always be more romantic scenes I couldn't imagine a BW game without romances. Kelly Chambers shares the title of The Cutest Person in ME together with Traynor I would have really wanted a full-fledged romance with her and not the half-assed thing there currently is. I find it devastating how easy it is to get her killed, one way or another I like Ambassador Udina. His Cerberus betrayal came out of nowhere and felt very weird. The portrayal of politicians in ME is unfair.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 28, 2017 14:12:21 GMT
I probably should have clarified that my post was mostly in response to the problems of author(s) having favorite(s) and not so much about the problems related to Liara's character. That's my bad. As I see them, some of the problems in regards to Liara's character are a mix of different things. Such things include a lack of relationship meter and her status as unkillable until late in the third and final game. I also agree with what you've said here. I had a longer post planned but I decided to cut it since it became too clunky.
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Post by stephenw32768 on Jul 28, 2017 18:48:11 GMT
I would totally be on board with an ME1 remaster that gives you three options for death on Virmire, with all of them being love interests. I wonder how many people would love the chance to save both Kaidan and Ashley but allow Liara to die? I'm not a super Ash fan by any means but I'd love to see them double teaming Shepard on Horizon, or maybe you get to have one of them join you on the SR2 while the other sits out ME2 because that person is an "Alliance [wo]man". Repurpose Tela Vasir. Have her join in the hunt to track down the SB, eventually replacing him. Imagine how much better she could serve the Council in that capacity. In ME3, she could return with intel on the Mars Archives and become a squadmate. She would, quite frankly, make more sense than Liara. Now, I don't hate Liara, but if she were a third option to kill on Virmire she'd have a decent shot at dying. This would be awesome. I like Liara, but I would absolutely have been up for a playthrough in which Tela Vasir is an ally in ME2 and a squadmate in ME3. Also, if Liara survives Virmire, there could even be an option for a renegade Shepard to side with Vasir against her. Bonus points if the expanded Virmire scenario in ME1 includes a failure path in which two of the three possible LIs die.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 28, 2017 23:09:19 GMT
I still think its extremely lame that out of all the original ME characters, she is the only one that cannot die, cannot be betrayed (outside of romance, but that's dumb because its not like she dies), and they are constantly trying to push her as your best friend and love interest. The only time Shepard can be mean, if that's what someone wants to call it, is when Shepard tells her that he/she wants to throw her in the volcano. Apparently that was forgotten in ME2/3. I would guess why that happened is because Bioware didn't want to create any friction between Shepard and T'soni. As far as not dying, I would have her killed on Thessia instead of Leng turning her into a bag of potatoes and throwing her across the screen. But she can die if ems is below 2000 and taken on the beam run. When the trailer was released for Citadel, someone made a thread showing it. A lot of people complained it showed a lot of Liara. Chris Priestly asked why they were complaining? They wanted to see others characters shown in the trailer. It seemed like the dlc was focused on the asari and the other characters didn't matter. I don't believe I posted in that thread, but I agreed what people were saying When Liara shows up in that scene, she says "having a bad day Shepard?" Many people did not like that.. It wasn't the words, but the way she said it. It sounded like the two were a couple. I didn't like it. Its too bad my Shepard couldn't say, "What do you think dumda**? A bunch of clowns want to kill me. So yes, I'm having a bad day Don't make it any worse by asking stupid questions." What is also bad is if you romance Steve, Miranda, Jack or Samantha, its the asari that will show up. Why couldn't Jack or Miranda show up? Wrex can be a squadmate. Wait a minute. Is it because he's an ME1 squamdate? Look at Steve. He could have shown up. He leads one of the teams when they go after copycat Shepard in the archives. Samantha would be hard to explain. I would have Bailey show up instead. He says he happen to be nearby when he heard all the shooting. Or have the edibot show up. No reason for the asari to show up. The broker dlc I didn't like. If taken on the Normandy she does the friend crap by saying what's wrong, but not what Shepard would say to the others. In ME3, there is no reason for her to show up after the first two dreams. The first dream she tells Shepard what the player and Shepard already know,and the second dream she tells Shepard the councilor wants to talk. What is wrong with using the interscom? Or have Traynor or the edibot tell Shepard over the intercom. If you do ignore her for the whole game, besides cutscenes, she will not offer her gift at the fob , if you decide to talk to her at that time.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 28, 2017 23:18:45 GMT
I would totally be on board with an ME1 remaster that gives you three options for death on Virmire, with all of them being love interests. I wonder how many people would love the chance to save both Kaidan and Ashley but allow Liara to die? I wouldn't mind, but I would include the other squadmates as well. If anything, I would leave a salarian behind with the bomb since it was their idea. When Miranda is asking Shepard questions, one of them can be about A/K. Shepard would say A/K were reassigned after stopping Saren. INstead of Coates showing up in ME3, it could be A/K. I like the idea. I will give you a like when I finish replying to your post. Another way is to kill Liara. Convince Tela to help take down the broker. She likes the idea. I would have Leng kill her on Thessia.
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Post by brfritos on Jul 29, 2017 0:48:29 GMT
I played through the Citadel DLC last night and I was quite impressed that Javik talked about coming to my aid because I talked to him more than most, but I'm still stuck with Liara saving the day and then flirting with me when I have Jack. The favoritism to Liara actually affects how I enjoy the series sometimes because there is little in the way of choice with her. When the trailer was released for Citadel, someone made a thread showing it. A lot of people complained it showed a lot of Liara. Chris Priestly asked why they were complaining? They wanted to see others characters shown in the trailer. It seemed like the dlc was focused on the asari and the other characters didn't matter. I don't believe I posted in that thread, but I agreed what people were saying When Liara shows up in that scene, she says "having a bad day Shepard?" Many people did not like that.. It wasn't the words, but the way she said it. It sounded like the two were a couple. I didn't like it. Its too bad my Shepard couldn't say, "What do you think dumda**? A bunch of clowns want to kill me. So yes, I'm having a bad day Don't make it any worse by asking stupid questions." What is also bad is if you romance Steve, Miranda, Jack or Samantha, its the asari that will show up. Why couldn't Jack or Miranda show up? Wrex can be a squadmate. Wait a minute. Is it because he's an ME1 squamdate? Look at Steve. He could have shown up. He leads one of the teams when they go after copycat Shepard in the archives. Samantha would be hard to explain. I would have Bailey show up instead. He says he happen to be nearby when he heard all the shooting. Or have the edibot show up. No reason for the asari to show up. Of course it has reason for Liara to shown up, she's the goddess of the galaxy. Haters gonna hate... Now on a more on-topic note, if you have your love interest on the Normandy and is a squadmate is them who appear instead Liara, isn't? Kaidan/Ash, Garrus or Tali. I like Liara and you know it, she has tons of problems, but I still like her. My biggest issue is how almost the entire ME2 squadmates are sidelined. I mean, Tali and Garrus doesn't count, they are with us since ME1. Name it only one squadmate introduced with ME2 that have an important role like Wrex besides Legion? You don't have it. Kasumi or Zaeed? Pfff, I lost what without them? 100 points of assets at best? Two scans in the galaxy and this is covered or even surpassed. Miranda? Unless she is a love interst, nope, she doesn't matter. The same goes for Thane, don't have it because he died? No problem, I have Kirrahe, so my salarian fleet will still be available. Jack I can rationalize, since she is battling the reapers with her students, but this is easily justifiable by saying they are at the Citadel for that time. But unless she's your love interest, what do you lose? 30 meaningless war assets when she's not present at Grissom Academy? Jacob, Samara, Diana Allers and even the ones sidelined in ME2, Kaydan or Ashley, doesn't count for anything unless they are a love interest (excluding Samara, who can't be romanced). Not even Mordin matter in the end because you have Padok. Sure, the situation is touching and/or tragic with him present, but this is also true to Padok. And Padok is a very interesting character. Take Miranda for example. Is not my prefered character in the whole series, nor I dislike her, is just your run of the mill "strong type". But heck! Imagine if you could convince her to serve on the Normandy? Not only this could lead to tons of interesting situations since she is a ex-Cerberus serving in an Alliance ship, you could really add to Kaydan and Ashley being distrustful of you. Why Bioware didn't do it? Fear of being accused of favoritism? Already having Tali and Garrus from ME2? I simply don't know and can't find a valid explanation besides "for reasons". Shepard could help with the search for her sister, wich could lead to Horizon without the whole "I'm Shepard, look at my glorified penis or vagina angry and bow to me". I get it, the purpose is show a humane side of Shepard and his/her feelings, but the whole scene is pathetic. "Yes Vega, that's right, let's kick Cerberus in the balls for a change. Where they are hiding, do you know it", for the guy who can't disable a simple geth turret without kicking it. With EDI and a comm specialist responsible for handling strategic information right next to Shepard to add insult to injury! Is very contradictory to have a game that is allegedly based - also - on the relationships you create during the course of it and in the end those relationships won't matter for the most part. Unless it has sex involved. Maybe Matriarch Aethyta is right after all. WoW, this came out as a rant. LOL Sorry to everyone, not my intention.
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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 29, 2017 10:16:50 GMT
I still think its extremely lame that out of all the original ME characters, she is the only one that cannot die, cannot be betrayed (outside of romance, but that's dumb because its not like she dies), and they are constantly trying to push her as your best friend and love interest. I played through the Citadel DLC last night and I was quite impressed that Javik talked about coming to my aid because I talked to him more than most, but I'm still stuck with Liara saving the day and then flirting with me when I have Jack. The favoritism to Liara actually affects how I enjoy the series sometimes because there is little in the way of choice with her. I always thought her character arc was lousy, but not having a choice and sometimes being subjected to the character feels wrong. I mean, I like the Shadow Broker DlC, but I'm stuck with Liara as a squadmate. And I really like that scene back on the Normandy where Shep can express concerns and in general express how they feel. But why does it have to be with perfect BFF Liara? I treated her like crap in ME1 and I don't even acknowledge her existence in ME3 and she's still forced on you. I would totally be on board with an ME1 remaster that gives you three options for death on Virmire, with all of them being love interests. I wonder how many people would love the chance to save both Kaidan and Ashley but allow Liara to die? I'm not a super Ash fan by any means but I'd love to see them double teaming Shepard on Horizon, or maybe you get to have one of them join you on the SR2 while the other sits out ME2 because that person is an "Alliance [wo]man". Repurpose Tela Vasir. Have her join in the hunt to track down the SB, eventually replacing him. Imagine how much better she could serve the Council in that capacity. In ME3, she could return with intel on the Mars Archives and become a squadmate. She would, quite frankly, make more sense than Liara. Now, I don't hate Liara, but if she were a third option to kill on Virmire she'd have a decent shot at dying. I really like all your ideas actually. If this were possible, I'd leave Liara on Virmire every time. I actually like both Kaidan and Ashley. I'd love it if I could romance Ashley but keep Kaidan alive. But nope, the game says I have to choose, and I think Kaidan ends up being a better character overall. I also like your idea of Tela Vasir as well. She was a more interesting character than Liara.
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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 29, 2017 10:33:12 GMT
I still think its extremely lame that out of all the original ME characters, she is the only one that cannot die, cannot be betrayed (outside of romance, but that's dumb because its not like she dies), and they are constantly trying to push her as your best friend and love interest. The only time Shepard can be mean, if that's what someone wants to call it, is when Shepard tells her that he/she wants to throw her in the volcano. Apparently that was forgotten in ME2/3. I would guess why that happened is because Bioware didn't want to create any friction between Shepard and T'soni. Wait, wait, wait. When can you tell Liara you want to throw her into a volcano? The only time I thought you can be mean to her is when she wants to know more about you and starts digging around your past. And you can tell her to shove off. But after she claims to keep the relationship professional, she acts like none of that happens and acts like your BFF. It still irks me that only Liara apparently cares enough about Shepard to help save him/her. I am also aware she can die if you have low enough EMS, but come on. That shouldn't count. That means a large part of the galaxy has to die just so I can get rid of her. That's just dumb and unfair. Tali, Ash, Wrex, Kaidan, and Garrus can all die and you can still save the galaxy in the end. So why can't I let Liara die and have my happy ending? As for the rest of your message, I'm going to respond to it respective of what you said. I don't want to quote everything and make this message super long. I wasn't around when the Citadel DLC trailer was released. I am a fairly new to the series overall, so I never saw this. I'd have been annoyed at this trailer as well. Yeah, her asking me if I'm having a bad day when she's not my romance annoys me. I know this has nothing to do with the Citadel DLC, but speaking of dumb questions, I cannot stand Liara on Thessia. Every time I get to the part where she says "next time maybe the Alliance can spring for air support?" Like a nerd, I actually say "shut the hell up Liara, nobody here likes you." She's obnoxious on Thessia and I fully support Leng cutting her to ribbons. I actually like him more than her anyway. As for other romance options, they could have been a possibility as well to come help Shep. Miranda is technically trying to avoid assassins and find her sister. So depending on when you do the Citadel DLC, she might not be available. But there is no excuse for this scene. Who ever you talk to the most should come help you. As for the Normandy scenes, I think Shepard is the star of those scenes. It humanizes Shep a bit, but I'm not happy that it has to be Liara that has to be the one to get it out of Shepard. And you're right that the first two times after your dreams are unneeded. I am also aware that if you barely talk to her she doesn't offer you a gift. And can I just point out how creepy it is that she rests her head on your shoulder regardless of romance if you do accept the gift? Just... yuck. I know you also told me that if you don't talk to Liara she will not hold your name plate at the end of the game. Hopefully that will be the case in this run since Jack is my romance. Javik and Kaidan have been the ones I've talked to the most.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 29, 2017 13:18:04 GMT
Wait, wait, wait. When can you tell Liara you want to throw her into a volcano? It happens if you rescue her after Virmire
I did a playthrough with edi, Kadian and Liara as the only squadmates to die in the trilogy. The other squadmates that I recruited survived. Everyone was at the memorial scene except Liara. Her name was on the wall. The only thing is Shepard dies and it takes a bit longer for the galaxy to rebuild I know. The way Thessia happened she should have been killed. For the happy ending. There's nothing happy about it even with Shepard surviving. Look at all the people who have been killed. Sure people are happy Shepard survives and the reapers are destroyed, but...... I will reply to this later
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Post by themikefest on Jul 29, 2017 22:14:10 GMT
but speaking of dumb questions, I cannot stand Liara on Thessia. Every time I get to the part where she says " next time maybe the Alliance can spring for air support?" Like a nerd, I actually say "shut the hell up Liara, nobody here likes you." She's obnoxious on Thessia and I fully support Leng cutting her to ribbons. I actually like him more than her anyway. I will reply to this later Forgot about this. When I first heard her say that, I turned my Shepard around and shot Liara. Unfortunately she didn't die. That line was crap. I would have put in a renegade interrupt. I won't get into specifics of what action Shepard would take, but I would have Ashley with me. I would also remove Liara from the squad for that comment. After the mission, I would drop her off at the Citadel. There was no reason for that comment.
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Post by obbie1984 on Jul 29, 2017 22:31:07 GMT
I will reply to this later Forgot about this. When I first heard her say that, I turned my Shepard around and shot Liara. Unfortunately she didn't die. That line was crap. I would have put in a renegade interrupt. I won't get into specifics of what action Shepard would take, but I would have Ashley with me. I would also remove Liara from the squad for that comment. After the mission, I would drop her off at the Citadel. There was no reason for that comment. Oh, you have to recruit her after Virmire. I think I only ever did this once, but I'll keep this in mind for future runs. But that actually makes future games worse. If you do Shadow Broker DLC she will still hug you and act like your bestie. Thanks for the video though. I'm a bit confused. How did you get that ending where Liara died? Doesn't low EMS ending usually end with the Normandy and the crew's fate being left unknown. And the galaxy being left in a very pessimistic state overall? How did you get the memorial scene at all? Did you play multiplayer and got galactic readiness points? And yeah, happy might not have been the best choice of words, but I mean the one where Shepard survives. And totally agree. I'd have left her on Thessia personally. She is just so annoying on Thessia. Shepard and Garrus are dealing with Earth/Palaven dying and not knowing the fate of their family members. And their entire species being wiped out. But then when it happens to Liara she just gets... so annoying and we have to coddle her so she feels better. And every time she goes "oh no my people, you'll never understand meeeeee" I just want a Renegade interrupt where I can smack the crap out of her. But I think I know where your specific scene with Ashley is going. That comment in general was really obnoxious and kind of rude overall.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 29, 2017 22:37:57 GMT
I'm a bit confused. How did you get that ending where Liara died? Doesn't low EMS ending usually end with the Normandy and the crew of the fate left being unknown and the fate of the galaxy being left in a very pessimistic state? How did you get the memorial scene at all? Did you play multiplayer and got galactic readiness points? And yeah, happy might not have been the best choice of words, but I mean the one where Shepard survives. If ems is between 1750-2000, the memorial scene will still happen. Its only when ems is below 1750 that the door for the Normandy doesn't open suggesting all onboard are dead. Here's a post that has more detail about low ems
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