boxofscreaming
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 943 Likes: 1,658
inherit
8698
0
1,658
boxofscreaming
943
June 2017
boxofscreaming
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 22, 2017 18:46:39 GMT
I've always said Mass Effect 2 is a fantastic game, it improved many aspects of ME1 (although at the same time it simplified to near overkill a lot of the RPG elements ((muh skill tree points and equipable ammo types and Frictionless Materials IX)) and exploration of the original) but its plot suffers from simply not really doing anything with the story. I love the start with the destruction of the Normandy and everyone thinking that you're dead but the overall plot with the Reapers and Collectors does nothing for the big picture, if anything some insight into how the Reapers work. Although without a doubt Mass Effect 2 has some of the best moments of the franchise as well as plot twists (Legion being the god he is, the Collectors having been once Protheans, Reaper IFF mission, the amazing cast of squadmates, the fact that Jacobs loyalty mission plays on the stereotype of black fathers leaving their kids/household at an early age and never appearing again ((still can't believe they put that in and barely anyone noticed)), etc etc). As a standalone game it is an absolute 10/10, I've always said it felt, overall, like a standalone game because of how it starts and ends. IMO ME1 is the king of the franchise by far still. It's like the writers can't help themselves but to generalize black men as worthless fathers. Typical cliche racial biased writing. But that's not what happened in the game. He was a good father and did a good job of raising Jacob, it's just that he was a bad guy in all other respects.
|
|
inherit
975
0
1,681
cloud9
3,876
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
|
Post by cloud9 on Sept 22, 2017 18:54:18 GMT
It's like the writers can't help themselves but to generalize black men as worthless fathers. Typical cliche racial biased writing. But that's not what happened in the game. He was a good father and did a good job of raising Jacob, it's just that he was a bad guy in all other respects. If he's a good father and a good person then why did he raped those women and murdered his crew mates? And he abandoned Jacob when he was 13. What kind of a man and a father would do that? And top it off they stereotype him as a deadbeat black man to depict us as savages. Come now don't pretend you don't see racism in that shit.
|
|
Inosha T'Rynn
N2
Truth...hurts
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: InoshaTRynn
Posts: 174 Likes: 561
inherit
6263
0
Dec 15, 2017 22:50:00 GMT
561
Inosha T'Rynn
Truth...hurts
174
March 2017
identiaetslos
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
InoshaTRynn
|
Post by Inosha T'Rynn on Sept 22, 2017 19:20:07 GMT
I like Miranda. Half the time I want to hug her.
I think that Kasumi and Tali would be adorable together.
|
|
aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
inherit
1157
0
1,190
aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 24, 2017 14:08:56 GMT
I got pissed off and suddenly I'm in the mood of making shitpost gifs. If you're a fan of Liara and Ash and Garrus. Don't click on it.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Sept 24, 2017 23:56:47 GMT
But that's not what happened in the game. He was a good father and did a good job of raising Jacob, it's just that he was a bad guy in all other respects. If he's a good father and a good person then why did he raped those women and murdered his crew mates? And he abandoned Jacob when he was 13. What kind of a man and a father would do that? And top it off they stereotype him as a deadbeat black man to depict us as savages. Come now don't pretend you don't see racism in that shit. 100% see it. It's why while I don't think Jacob is necessarily bad the bad stereotypes are all in place with his father. The guy abandoned the family and wasn't such a stand-up guy. His true colors came through. Moreover, the rest of the crew of the Hugo Gernsback also didn't think he was leadership material. What was it they were seeing in the guy that made them not trust him right off the bat? When you combine that with a potential "abandonment" of FemShep, it just adds to it, suggesting that a black man can't stay faithful. At least they didn't make Dr. Cole white, because that would have just added to the insult. People can pretend all that want that racism wasn't alive and kicking in the creation of the Taylor Family, but they're just lying to themselves.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 1:34:00 GMT
- Humanity has never been an underdog species anywhere in the trilogy, and BioWare's continued instance that we are tends to break immersion.
Two parter here: - The Rachni are far more deserving of 'forgiveness' of past wrongs than the Krogan, and their actions throughout the trilogy show that they are far more willing to work with the other species and work to dispel negative stereotypes than the Krogan are. Also, the Queen keeps her promises, Wrex doesn't; she's far less of an unrepentant asshole compared to him too.
- To top it off, the Rachni would have made far better ground forces, and general cannon fodder than the Krogan due to their biology, discipline, and rapid gestation of their young. They are also valuable assets off the battlefield thanks to their natural ingenuity and technological prowess. All the Krogan can do is break things.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 4:54:00 GMT
But that's not what happened in the game. He was a good father and did a good job of raising Jacob, it's just that he was a bad guy in all other respects. If he's a good father and a good person then why did he raped those women and murdered his crew mates? And he abandoned Jacob when he was 13. What kind of a man and a father would do that? And top it off they stereotype him as a deadbeat black man to depict us as savages. Come now don't pretend you don't see racism in that shit. You do realize that there were more people then just Ronald taking advantage of women right? Ronald was just second in command then after death of the Captain became the first in command. So unless the officers were entirely black it wasn't just the black guy being the only one. On top of that the entire story of ship wrecked group gets lead by someone who starts off well meaning then twists with the power they get isn't new. Off the top of my head Deep Space 9 had an episode devoted to that. One of those how can we torture Miles O'Brian episodes. I tried a bit of a search but were does it say that Ronald abandoned Jacob when he was 13. All I could find is that the ship crashed and Ronald waited a decade to activate the distress signal. Only doing so because he was threatened by the hunters and his little power trip was in danger of being destroyed and him killed.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 4:54:54 GMT
- The Rachni are far more deserving of 'forgiveness' of past wrongs than the Krogan, and their actions throughout the trilogy show that they are far more willing to work with the other species and work to dispel negative stereotypes than the Krogan are. Also, the Queen keeps her promises, Wrex doesn't; she's far less of an unrepentant asshole compared to him too. What promise did the Queen keep that Wrex didn't?
|
|
inherit
975
0
1,681
cloud9
3,876
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
|
Post by cloud9 on Sept 25, 2017 10:58:55 GMT
If he's a good father and a good person then why did he raped those women and murdered his crew mates? And he abandoned Jacob when he was 13. What kind of a man and a father would do that? And top it off they stereotype him as a deadbeat black man to depict us as savages. Come now don't pretend you don't see racism in that shit. You do realize that there were more people then just Ronald taking advantage of women right? Ronald was just second in command then after death of the Captain became the first in command. So unless the officers were entirely black it wasn't just the black guy being the only one. On top of that the entire story of ship wrecked group gets lead by someone who starts off well meaning then twists with the power they get isn't new. Off the top of my head Deep Space 9 had an episode devoted to that. One of those how can we torture Miles O'Brian episodes. I tried a bit of a search but were does it say that Ronald abandoned Jacob when he was 13. All I could find is that the ship crashed and Ronald waited a decade to activate the distress signal. Only doing so because he was threatened by the hunters and his little power trip was in danger of being destroyed and him killed. They set it up for him to be the bad guy and stereotyping him as a deadbeat dad, and a rapist which it's very obvious but I don't expect you to understand.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 12:08:57 GMT
- The Rachni are far more deserving of 'forgiveness' of past wrongs than the Krogan, and their actions throughout the trilogy show that they are far more willing to work with the other species and work to dispel negative stereotypes than the Krogan are. Also, the Queen keeps her promises, Wrex doesn't; she's far less of an unrepentant asshole compared to him too. What promise did the Queen keep that Wrex didn't? I suppose I should clarify promises when it comes to Wrex/Krogan and the Queen/Rachni. Both technically keep their promises in the sense that they send forces to join the war effort, but Wrex does it only after a laundry list of concessions and demands are met. In ME 2, when speaking to him during Grunt's loyalty mission, clan chief Wrex promises a horde of Krogan at Shepard's beck and call as soon as the Reapers arrive. Flash forward to ME 3 and he all but spells it out that the Krogan are perfectly willing to stand idly by while the rest of the galaxy burns to ash around them unless the Genophage is completely cured and distributed among their population. On top of that, once the cure is finished and Wrex finally deigns to send his people into the fight, he mentions to Shepard and other leaders of the united galaxy, how he expects the grateful species to give him and his people fresh colony worlds as a way of thanks for the Krogan coming to save everyone once the war is over. The Rachni Queen on the other hand, provided you spare her in ME 1, does exactly what she says she would. The amount of Ravengers present across the entire galaxy is testament that she was indeed raising an army to fight the Reapers, just like she promised. But even with the setback of her capture, once freed she immediately sets to work aiding the galaxy in anyway she can. The Queen demands no restitution as a prerequisite for joining the war, nor does she expect the galaxy to reward her actions, she just does what she does because she realizes the threat the Reapers pose to everyone. I don't know about you, but I would much rather rely on the Rachni to follow through with their promises of aid than have to jump through hoops to even get the Krogan to begin moving on their's.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 12:22:37 GMT
You do realize that there were more people then just Ronald taking advantage of women right? Ronald was just second in command then after death of the Captain became the first in command. So unless the officers were entirely black it wasn't just the black guy being the only one. On top of that the entire story of ship wrecked group gets lead by someone who starts off well meaning then twists with the power they get isn't new. Off the top of my head Deep Space 9 had an episode devoted to that. One of those how can we torture Miles O'Brian episodes. I tried a bit of a search but were does it say that Ronald abandoned Jacob when he was 13. All I could find is that the ship crashed and Ronald waited a decade to activate the distress signal. Only doing so because he was threatened by the hunters and his little power trip was in danger of being destroyed and him killed. They set it up for him to be the bad guy and stereotyping him as a deadbeat dad, and a rapist which it's very obvious but I don't expect you to understand. So black people are never ever rapists or dead beat dads and that is just a racist caricature that holds absolutely 0 basis in reality? That skin color is pretty irrelevant when it comes to who is a dead beat dad and/or rapist because being an ass hole isn't restricted by race, age, religion or sexual orientation. By your logic KFC is the single most racist company ever because they are nearly global spanning and they force black people who willingly apply to work there to make fried chicken and force other black people who willingly choose to eat there to eat friend chicken. Clearly these millions of black people who eat at this clearly racist for selling friend chicken company are truly the Uncle Ruckus of the black community.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 12:32:19 GMT
What promise did the Queen keep that Wrex didn't? I suppose I should clarify promises when it comes to Wrex/Krogan and the Queen/Rachni. Both technically keep their promises in the sense that they send forces to join the war effort, but Wrex does it only after a laundry list of concessions and demands are met. In ME 2, when speaking to him during Grunt's loyalty mission, clan chief Wrex promises a horde of Krogan at Shepard's beck and call as soon as the Reapers arrive. Flash forward to ME 3 and he all but spells it out that the Krogan are perfectly willing to stand idly by while the rest of the galaxy burns to ash around them unless the Genophage is completely cured and distributed among their population. On top of that, once the cure is finished and Wrex finally deigns to send his people into the fight, he mentions to Shepard and other leaders of the united galaxy, how he expects the grateful species to give him and his people fresh colony worlds as a way of thanks for the Krogan coming to save everyone once the war is over. The Rachni Queen on the other hand, provided you spare her in ME 1, does exactly what she says she would. The amount of Ravengers present across the entire galaxy is testament that she was indeed raising an army to fight the Reapers, just like she promised. But even with the setback of her capture, once freed she immediately sets to work aiding the galaxy in anyway she can. The Queen demands no restitution as a prerequisite for joining the war, nor does she expect the galaxy to reward her actions, she just does what she does because she realizes the threat the Reapers pose to everyone. I don't know about you, but I would much rather relay on the Rachni to follow through with their promises of aid than have to jump through hoops to even get the Krogan to begin moving on their's. The Rachni can freely breed without restriction. A problem the Krogan have because they can not. The Rachni settled on a planet of their choice which has enough resources for them to survive. Tuchunka is a radioactive ball of dirt that barely can support the Krogan living on it.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 13:09:51 GMT
I suppose I should clarify promises when it comes to Wrex/Krogan and the Queen/Rachni. Both technically keep their promises in the sense that they send forces to join the war effort, but Wrex does it only after a laundry list of concessions and demands are met. In ME 2, when speaking to him during Grunt's loyalty mission, clan chief Wrex promises a horde of Krogan at Shepard's beck and call as soon as the Reapers arrive. Flash forward to ME 3 and he all but spells it out that the Krogan are perfectly willing to stand idly by while the rest of the galaxy burns to ash around them unless the Genophage is completely cured and distributed among their population. On top of that, once the cure is finished and Wrex finally deigns to send his people into the fight, he mentions to Shepard and other leaders of the united galaxy, how he expects the grateful species to give him and his people fresh colony worlds as a way of thanks for the Krogan coming to save everyone once the war is over. The Rachni Queen on the other hand, provided you spare her in ME 1, does exactly what she says she would. The amount of Ravengers present across the entire galaxy is testament that she was indeed raising an army to fight the Reapers, just like she promised. But even with the setback of her capture, once freed she immediately sets to work aiding the galaxy in anyway she can. The Queen demands no restitution as a prerequisite for joining the war, nor does she expect the galaxy to reward her actions, she just does what she does because she realizes the threat the Reapers pose to everyone. I don't know about you, but I would much rather relay on the Rachni to follow through with their promises of aid than have to jump through hoops to even get the Krogan to begin moving on their's. The Rachni can freely breed without restriction. A problem the Krogan have because they can not. The Rachni settled on a planet of their choice which has enough resources for them to survive. Tuchunka is a radioactive ball of dirt that barely can support the Krogan living on it. Neither of those problems are relevant to the problem at hand though, namely the Reaper invasion, and imminent extinction. Even with the Genophage cured, and given new worlds to settle, newborn Krogan aren't going to be anything but a burden on resources during the time it takes them to reach maturity; which if we assume anything close to human development, that would be around twenty years, give or take. Indeed, if we are looking at the Krogan and Rachni solely as cannon fodder, to throw expendable troops into the meat grinder, than the Rachni are still superior seeing as how they are combat ready the moment they hatch, and they have natural weapons and armor on par with modern day equivalents, all of which are not reliant on supply lines. Aside from that though, as an outside observer like Shepard, or one of the allied leaders who are you going to look more favorably on when it came down to dealing with the Reapers? Are they going to praise the people who dragged their feet, and caused the whole war effort to be placed on hold before they sent any aid? Or are they going to appreciate the ones who immediately joined the fight and fully devoted themselves to the cause, no questions asked?
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 14:00:12 GMT
The Rachni can freely breed without restriction. A problem the Krogan have because they can not. The Rachni settled on a planet of their choice which has enough resources for them to survive. Tuchunka is a radioactive ball of dirt that barely can support the Krogan living on it. Neither of those problems are relevant to the problem at hand though, namely the Reaper invasion, and imminent extinction. Even with the Genophage cured, and given new worlds to settle, newborn Krogan aren't going to be anything but a burden on resources during the time it takes them to reach maturity; which if we assume anything close to human development, that would be around twenty years, give or take. Indeed, if we are looking at the Krogan and Rachni solely as cannon fodder, to throw expendable troops into the meat grinder, than the Rachni are still superior seeing as how they are combat ready the moment they hatch, and they have natural weapons and armor on par with modern day equivalents, all of which are not reliant on supply lines. Aside from that though, as an outside observer like Shepard, or one of the allied leaders who are you going to look more favorably on when it came down to dealing with the Reapers? Are they going to praise the people who dragged their feet, and caused the whole war effort to be placed on hold before they sent any aid? Or are they going to appreciate the ones who immediately joined the fight and fully devoted themselves to the cause, no questions asked? Why would the krogan fight to survive if their survival meant their eventual death regardless?
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 15:20:25 GMT
Neither of those problems are relevant to the problem at hand though, namely the Reaper invasion, and imminent extinction. Even with the Genophage cured, and given new worlds to settle, newborn Krogan aren't going to be anything but a burden on resources during the time it takes them to reach maturity; which if we assume anything close to human development, that would be around twenty years, give or take. Indeed, if we are looking at the Krogan and Rachni solely as cannon fodder, to throw expendable troops into the meat grinder, than the Rachni are still superior seeing as how they are combat ready the moment they hatch, and they have natural weapons and armor on par with modern day equivalents, all of which are not reliant on supply lines. Aside from that though, as an outside observer like Shepard, or one of the allied leaders who are you going to look more favorably on when it came down to dealing with the Reapers? Are they going to praise the people who dragged their feet, and caused the whole war effort to be placed on hold before they sent any aid? Or are they going to appreciate the ones who immediately joined the fight and fully devoted themselves to the cause, no questions asked? Why would the krogan fight to survive if their survival meant their eventual death regardless? Aside from their leader's previous promises of help? How about in the realization of the fact that being cured of the Genophage is going to make no difference whether it happens now or after hostilities had ended. No children conceived in the days following the cure are going to contribute anything to the current war effort, so the number of living Krogan is a moot point in that regard. Indeed, thinking of the future is all well and good, but only if the galaxy actually succeeds in defeating the Reaper invasion. All these delays and grandstanding gestures for the cure is only letting the those same Reapers better establish footholds in allied space, only gives them more time to wipe out much needed fleets and supply lines etc. If you want a better future for your people maybe get involved in the fighting when Shepard and the Turians asked for it, rather than demanding concessions and letting the metal Cuthulu's chip away more and more at the only contested space in the galaxy, and potentially lead to Palaven falling thereby dooming the entire galaxy, including the Krogan, to a slow death of extinction. Speaking of thinking ahead, how is the rest of the galaxy going to react when they find out the Krogan could have sent aid, could have helped save millions, perhaps even billions of lives in the time it took us to finish playing doctor with the Genophage cure, but they chose not to? Wrex keeps going on and on about how much the Krogan deserve a second chance, that they are more than what the rest of the galaxy stereotypes them as, but he is actually doing very little to dispel such perceptions. Wrex and his actions come across as more of the same: "Rargh! I am Krogan! Give me what I want or people will die!"Contrast that with the Rachni Queen, who by all rights shouldn't be involved in the fight; seeing as how she is the last of her entire species, and has a very real possibility of dying in the coming months; who jumps right into the war asking for no restitutions, and expecting none in return. For supposedly just being mindlessly evil space bugs with no redeeming qualities, they are demonstrating a willingness to co-operate and work with other races across the galaxy in spite of their own situation.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 16:14:23 GMT
Why would the krogan fight to survive if their survival meant their eventual death regardless? Aside from their leader's previous promises of help? How about in the realization of the fact that being cured of the Genophage is going to make no difference whether it happens now or after hostilities had ended. No children conceived in the days following the cure are going to contribute anything to the current war effort, so the number of living Krogan is a moot point in that regard. Indeed, thinking of the future is all well and good, but only if the galaxy actually succeeds in defeating the Reaper invasion. All these delays and grandstanding gestures for the cure is only letting the those same Reapers better establish footholds in allied space, only gives them more time to wipe out much needed fleets and supply lines etc. If you want a better future for your people maybe get involved in the fighting when Shepard and the Turians asked for it, rather than demanding concessions and letting the metal Cuthulu's chip away more and more at the only contested space in the galaxy, and potentially lead to Palaven falling thereby dooming the entire galaxy, including the Krogan, to a slow death of extinction. Speaking of thinking ahead, how is the rest of the galaxy going to react when they find out the Krogan could have sent aid, could have helped save millions, perhaps even billions of lives in the time it took us to finish playing doctor with the Genophage cure, but they chose not to? Wrex keeps going on and on about how much the Krogan deserve a second chance, that they are more than what the rest of the galaxy stereotypes them as, but he is actually doing very little to dispel such perceptions. Wrex and his actions come across as more of the same: "Rargh! I am Krogan! Give me what I want or people will die!"Contrast that with the Rachni Queen, who by all rights shouldn't be involved in the fight; seeing as how she is the last of her entire species, and has a very real possibility of dying in the coming months; who jumps right into the war asking for no restitutions, and expecting none in return. For supposedly just being mindlessly evil space bugs with no redeeming qualities, they are demonstrating a willingness to co-operate and work with other races across the galaxy in spite of their own situation. How about the fact once the Reapers were gone there would be nothing that could force the other races to cure the Genophage. And that is without getting into the rather obvious political structure of the Krogan race. With Wrex curing the Genophage creating a leader that all clans can rally around rather then previous set up in which clans only allied as a way to protect fertile females and many other clans were against clan Urdnot even if not out right hostile. The Krogan Rebellion and Genophage being the acts that caused Krogan to lose value in a single unified leader and splinted back into individual clans fighting and killing for the few resources Tuchunka had. As well as breaking their spirit and giving up on the future. Also the game never depicted Rachni as mindlessly evil space bugs. Being hostile and territorial with no real contact between them doesn't make them mindlessly evil. It just means they view and act differently then what is considered the norm. If anything different from the norm auto makes it mindlessly evil then that is more a personal thing then anything in the game.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 17:16:16 GMT
Aside from their leader's previous promises of help? How about in the realization of the fact that being cured of the Genophage is going to make no difference whether it happens now or after hostilities had ended. No children conceived in the days following the cure are going to contribute anything to the current war effort, so the number of living Krogan is a moot point in that regard. Indeed, thinking of the future is all well and good, but only if the galaxy actually succeeds in defeating the Reaper invasion. All these delays and grandstanding gestures for the cure is only letting the those same Reapers better establish footholds in allied space, only gives them more time to wipe out much needed fleets and supply lines etc. If you want a better future for your people maybe get involved in the fighting when Shepard and the Turians asked for it, rather than demanding concessions and letting the metal Cuthulu's chip away more and more at the only contested space in the galaxy, and potentially lead to Palaven falling thereby dooming the entire galaxy, including the Krogan, to a slow death of extinction. Speaking of thinking ahead, how is the rest of the galaxy going to react when they find out the Krogan could have sent aid, could have helped save millions, perhaps even billions of lives in the time it took us to finish playing doctor with the Genophage cure, but they chose not to? Wrex keeps going on and on about how much the Krogan deserve a second chance, that they are more than what the rest of the galaxy stereotypes them as, but he is actually doing very little to dispel such perceptions. Wrex and his actions come across as more of the same: "Rargh! I am Krogan! Give me what I want or people will die!"Contrast that with the Rachni Queen, who by all rights shouldn't be involved in the fight; seeing as how she is the last of her entire species, and has a very real possibility of dying in the coming months; who jumps right into the war asking for no restitutions, and expecting none in return. For supposedly just being mindlessly evil space bugs with no redeeming qualities, they are demonstrating a willingness to co-operate and work with other races across the galaxy in spite of their own situation. How about the fact once the Reapers were gone there would be nothing that could force the other races to cure the Genophage. And that is without getting into the rather obvious political structure of the Krogan race. With Wrex curing the Genophage creating a leader that all clans can rally around rather then previous set up in which clans only allied as a way to protect fertile females and many other clans were against clan Urdnot even if not out right hostile. The Krogan Rebellion and Genophage being the acts that caused Krogan to lose value in a single unified leader and splinted back into individual clans fighting and killing for the few resources Tuchunka had. As well as breaking their spirit and giving up on the future. Also the game never depicted Rachni as mindlessly evil space bugs. Being hostile and territorial with no real contact between them doesn't make them mindlessly evil. It just means they view and act differently then what is considered the norm. If anything different from the norm auto makes it mindlessly evil then that is more a personal thing then anything in the game. And if the delay caused by the Genophage cure led to the fall of Palaven, the lack of Turian ships to protect and deliver the Crucible to the Citadel, and resulted in the lose of the war to the Reapers than all those Krogan babies would die anyway. So it's okay for Wrex to to jeopardize the very future of the entire galaxy on the off chance that the other species won't keep their word against an invasion force that will kill every advanced sapient in the galaxy should they win? Seems rather petulant behavior for a race that supposedly wants to remove the stereotypes surrounding them. And BioWare never stated the Rachni were mindlessly evil, but the races in-uinverse did, the Krogan especially. Wrex is all for killing the Queen in ME 1 and openly mocks Shepard for sparing her saying how they have no redemptive qualities. Its rather funny that those boogeymen of the Rachni Wars are more helpful and openly willing to co-operate with the galaxy than the Korgan were.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Sept 25, 2017 19:19:30 GMT
How about the fact once the Reapers were gone there would be nothing that could force the other races to cure the Genophage. And that is without getting into the rather obvious political structure of the Krogan race. With Wrex curing the Genophage creating a leader that all clans can rally around rather then previous set up in which clans only allied as a way to protect fertile females and many other clans were against clan Urdnot even if not out right hostile. The Krogan Rebellion and Genophage being the acts that caused Krogan to lose value in a single unified leader and splinted back into individual clans fighting and killing for the few resources Tuchunka had. As well as breaking their spirit and giving up on the future. Also the game never depicted Rachni as mindlessly evil space bugs. Being hostile and territorial with no real contact between them doesn't make them mindlessly evil. It just means they view and act differently then what is considered the norm. If anything different from the norm auto makes it mindlessly evil then that is more a personal thing then anything in the game. And if the delay caused by the Genophage cure led to the fall of Palaven, the lack of Turian ships to protect and deliver the Crucible to the Citadel, and resulted in the lose of the war to the Reapers than all those Krogan babies would die anyway. So it's okay for Wrex to to jeopardize the very future of the entire galaxy on the off chance that the other species won't keep their word against an invasion force that will kill every advanced sapient in the galaxy should they win? Seems rather petulant behavior for a race that supposedly wants to remove the stereotypes surrounding them. And BioWare never stated the Rachni were mindlessly evil, but the races in-uinverse did, the Krogan especially. Wrex is all for killing the Queen in ME 1 and openly mocks Shepard for sparing her saying how they have no redemptive qualities. Its rather funny that those boogeymen of the Rachni Wars are more helpful and openly willing to co-operate with the galaxy than the Korgan were. Tbh, I don't blame Wrex one bit. Post-war, odds are that krogan numbers would be down even more. No reason to believe the turians or salarians would go for the cure if their asses aren't backed against the wall. Fact is, they wouldn't go for it. Even Mordin felt that a genophage cure was necessary under the current circumstances. Once those circumstances change - the Reapers cease to be a threat - I'd imagine even Mordin would no longer think it a good idea. Think about it. The races have all been decimated but let's take the time to give the fastest-breeding race (this side of rachni) a cure that will allow them to probably take over the galaxy. No thanks. No, it had to happen before the war ended or else it was never going to happen. At least a grateful krogan race is less likely to go to war with the Council races, particularly with Wrex and Bakara in charge. Besides, Wrex wasn't asking for them to manufacture a cure. He knew it already existed. That made the odds of getting his way much more realistic.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 25, 2017 20:05:38 GMT
How about the fact once the Reapers were gone there would be nothing that could force the other races to cure the Genophage. And that is without getting into the rather obvious political structure of the Krogan race. With Wrex curing the Genophage creating a leader that all clans can rally around rather then previous set up in which clans only allied as a way to protect fertile females and many other clans were against clan Urdnot even if not out right hostile. The Krogan Rebellion and Genophage being the acts that caused Krogan to lose value in a single unified leader and splinted back into individual clans fighting and killing for the few resources Tuchunka had. As well as breaking their spirit and giving up on the future. Also the game never depicted Rachni as mindlessly evil space bugs. Being hostile and territorial with no real contact between them doesn't make them mindlessly evil. It just means they view and act differently then what is considered the norm. If anything different from the norm auto makes it mindlessly evil then that is more a personal thing then anything in the game. And if the delay caused by the Genophage cure led to the fall of Palaven, the lack of Turian ships to protect and deliver the Crucible to the Citadel, and resulted in the lose of the war to the Reapers than all those Krogan babies would die anyway. So it's okay for Wrex to to jeopardize the very future of the entire galaxy on the off chance that the other species won't keep their word against an invasion force that will kill every advanced sapient in the galaxy should they win? Seems rather petulant behavior for a race that supposedly wants to remove the stereotypes surrounding them. And BioWare never stated the Rachni were mindlessly evil, but the races in-uinverse did, the Krogan especially. Wrex is all for killing the Queen in ME 1 and openly mocks Shepard for sparing her saying how they have no redemptive qualities. Its rather funny that those boogeymen of the Rachni Wars are more helpful and openly willing to co-operate with the galaxy than the Korgan were. Yes if a delay did happen that might be bad how ever that kind of what if scenario kind of ignores in game events. Eve and the other fertile females were already cured because of the less then ethical methods of Malon in ME 2. The problem was not the cure but how to apply it without causing the lethal side effects that Eve and the other females were suffering and how to mass spread it to the Krogan population. Wrex knew about the females and knew they had been cured and that STG had been hiding them. That is why he pulled that card when he did. Also you seem to miss a bit of irony in your complaint. The Rachni Queen is willing to help Shepard only after Shepard secures the Rachni a future. By not killing Queen on Noveria and rescuing her again later. But when the Krogan request the same deal to help only after their future is secured then they will help out you complain. The Rachni made no attempt to communicate and killed everyone. The Krogan were uplifted for the specific purpose of killing them and you wonder why a Krogan wouldn't have a very high opinion of them?
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 21:41:13 GMT
And if the delay caused by the Genophage cure led to the fall of Palaven, the lack of Turian ships to protect and deliver the Crucible to the Citadel, and resulted in the lose of the war to the Reapers than all those Krogan babies would die anyway. So it's okay for Wrex to to jeopardize the very future of the entire galaxy on the off chance that the other species won't keep their word against an invasion force that will kill every advanced sapient in the galaxy should they win? Seems rather petulant behavior for a race that supposedly wants to remove the stereotypes surrounding them. And BioWare never stated the Rachni were mindlessly evil, but the races in-uinverse did, the Krogan especially. Wrex is all for killing the Queen in ME 1 and openly mocks Shepard for sparing her saying how they have no redemptive qualities. Its rather funny that those boogeymen of the Rachni Wars are more helpful and openly willing to co-operate with the galaxy than the Korgan were. Tbh, I don't blame Wrex one bit. Post-war, odds are that krogan numbers would be down even more. No reason to believe the turians or salarians would go for the cure if their asses aren't backed against the wall. Fact is, they wouldn't go for it. Even Mordin felt that a genophage cure was necessary under the current circumstances. Once those circumstances change - the Reapers cease to be a threat - I'd imagine even Mordin would no longer think it a good idea. Think about it. The races have all been decimated but let's take the time to give the fastest-breeding race (this side of rachni) a cure that will allow them to probably take over the galaxy. No thanks. No, it had to happen before the war ended or else it was never going to happen. At least a grateful krogan race is less likely to go to war with the Council races, particularly with Wrex and Bakara in charge. Besides, Wrex wasn't asking for them to manufacture a cure. He knew it already existed. That made the odds of getting his way much more realistic. So if Wrex is justified in deliberately holding the fate of the entire galaxy hostage in order to garner future advantages for his species; and damn the rest; then I feel it is equally justified when certain Shepards choose to sabotage the cure, or if the rest of the galaxy, post Reaper war, decides that a Genophage 2.0 is needed in case the Krogan decide to get uppity again. This type of behavior is exactly what caused the Genophage deployment in the first place; the Krogan showing no regard for the other species' existence or how their actions might affect them. All of which points to a species that hasn't really proven itself "worthy of a second chance" let alone one that has learned from past mistakes.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 25, 2017 21:57:04 GMT
And if the delay caused by the Genophage cure led to the fall of Palaven, the lack of Turian ships to protect and deliver the Crucible to the Citadel, and resulted in the lose of the war to the Reapers than all those Krogan babies would die anyway. So it's okay for Wrex to to jeopardize the very future of the entire galaxy on the off chance that the other species won't keep their word against an invasion force that will kill every advanced sapient in the galaxy should they win? Seems rather petulant behavior for a race that supposedly wants to remove the stereotypes surrounding them. And BioWare never stated the Rachni were mindlessly evil, but the races in-uinverse did, the Krogan especially. Wrex is all for killing the Queen in ME 1 and openly mocks Shepard for sparing her saying how they have no redemptive qualities. Its rather funny that those boogeymen of the Rachni Wars are more helpful and openly willing to co-operate with the galaxy than the Korgan were. Yes if a delay did happen that might be bad how ever that kind of what if scenario kind of ignores in game events. Eve and the other fertile females were already cured because of the less then ethical methods of Malon in ME 2. The problem was not the cure but how to apply it without causing the lethal side effects that Eve and the other females were suffering and how to mass spread it to the Krogan population. Wrex knew about the females and knew they had been cured and that STG had been hiding them. That is why he pulled that card when he did. Also you seem to miss a bit of irony in your complaint. The Rachni Queen is willing to help Shepard only after Shepard secures the Rachni a future. By not killing Queen on Noveria and rescuing her again later. But when the Krogan request the same deal to help only after their future is secured then they will help out you complain. The Rachni made no attempt to communicate and killed everyone. The Krogan were uplifted for the specific purpose of killing them and you wonder why a Krogan wouldn't have a very high opinion of them? Oh I see the distinct parallels between the Krogan and Rachni quite well. Wrex, for being a supposedly 'smart' Krogan, should have easily seen the connection when he encounters the Queen in the Peak 15 facility. A race being used by the others for the sole purpose of warfare, a species clearly intelligent when the Queen begins to communicate, seems quite similar to the Krogan. But no, its immeditly "Kill these monsters!" and "You're a fool for trusting them Shepard!" The same kind of things that can easily be said about his species. He really doesn't do his side any favors when he opens a heated debate by pulling a gun on Shepard on Virmire either, while the Queen only opted to talk. And in looking at the "requirements" to get the Rachni to send aid to the galaxy vs. what the Krogan demand is completely lopsided. All the Queen asks is for you to free her, as she is physically incapable of providing help otherwise. Then, once free, she immeditly joins the war effort. Hell, she will even allow herself to die if Shepard feels the Rachni are too dangerous to survive in ME 3, if the player freed her in ME 1, because the Rachni have the foresight to look at the bigger picture. Wrex and the Krogan on the other hand aren't being pinned down by Reaper fire, their homeworld isn't crawling with Reaper forces to the extent that Earth and Plaven are. They are completely within their power to help, but they choose not to. And this is all after Wrex's implicit promise of support in ME 2.
|
|
inherit
44
0
8,750
MPApr2012
...look my eyes are just holograms
1,290
August 2016
mpapr2012
|
Post by MPApr2012 on Sept 25, 2017 22:42:42 GMT
The amount of Ravengers present across the entire galaxy is testament that she was indeed raising an army to fight the Reapers, just like she promised. and now thanks to misguidedworm7 this is all that comes to mind... OP please don't think i'm nitpicking or something (would be rich coming from me anyways) dis just a lighthearted, and a slightly offtopic, comment. Regardless of that, that's an interesting observation and take on Wrex's statements and Krogan commitments overall
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 26, 2017 1:20:07 GMT
Yes if a delay did happen that might be bad how ever that kind of what if scenario kind of ignores in game events. Eve and the other fertile females were already cured because of the less then ethical methods of Malon in ME 2. The problem was not the cure but how to apply it without causing the lethal side effects that Eve and the other females were suffering and how to mass spread it to the Krogan population. Wrex knew about the females and knew they had been cured and that STG had been hiding them. That is why he pulled that card when he did. Also you seem to miss a bit of irony in your complaint. The Rachni Queen is willing to help Shepard only after Shepard secures the Rachni a future. By not killing Queen on Noveria and rescuing her again later. But when the Krogan request the same deal to help only after their future is secured then they will help out you complain. The Rachni made no attempt to communicate and killed everyone. The Krogan were uplifted for the specific purpose of killing them and you wonder why a Krogan wouldn't have a very high opinion of them? Oh I see the distinct parallels between the Krogan and Rachni quite well. Wrex, for being a supposedly 'smart' Krogan, should have easily seen the connection when he encounters the Queen in the Peak 15 facility. A race being used by the others for the sole purpose of warfare, a species clearly intelligent when the Queen begins to communicate, seems quite similar to the Krogan. But no, its immeditly "Kill these monsters!" and "You're a fool for trusting them Shepard!" The same kind of things that can easily be said about his species. He really doesn't do his side any favors when he opens a heated debate by pulling a gun on Shepard on Virmire either, while the Queen only opted to talk. And in looking at the "requirements" to get the Rachni to send aid to the galaxy vs. what the Krogan demand is completely lopsided. All the Queen asks is for you to free her, as she is physically incapable of providing help otherwise. Then, once free, she immeditly joins the war effort. Hell, she will even allow herself to die if Shepard feels the Rachni are too dangerous to survive in ME 3, if the player freed her in ME 1, because the Rachni have the foresight to look at the bigger picture. Wrex and the Krogan on the other hand aren't being pinned down by Reaper fire, their homeworld isn't crawling with Reaper forces to the extent that Earth and Plaven are. They are completely within their power to help, but they choose not to. And this is all after Wrex's implicit promise of support in ME 2. But you seem to miss the very important part about the entire set up between the Krogan and Rachni on Noveria. True their aim with the Queen at that time and that place was to turn her children into weapons of war. How ever during first contact and the resulting Rachni War no one forced the Rachni to have the sole purpose of war. Wrex's comments are not based on the specific situation there on Noveria but based on the experiences of the Rachni acting of their own free will during the Rachni War. And I'm sure you will pull up the but the Reaper defense for them. That entire argument is on some fairly sketchy ground because the Queen was able to form a bond with the Huntress who was indoctrinated and knew about Sovereign and the Reapers. It wouldn't be very hard for anyone to make up an excuse that the Rachni of the past didn't act like that because they choose to but because the Reapers made them. If your only comparing ME3 events you are only looking at half the picture. If you release the Queen in ME1 then for 2.5 years give or take she is allowed to rebuild the Rachni race. In essence you cure their genophage. The result of that during the events of ME 3 all you have to do is rescue the queen again for her to pledge support. The Krogan's Genophage how ever has yet to be cured. And at that point in time Wrex was holding all the cards. The Turians want Krogan support and the Alliance needs the Turian support which requires the Krogan. Wrex is literally only asking for the very thing the Rachni already got. But to you one is perfectly ok and the other is clearly asking to much.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Sept 26, 2017 4:45:28 GMT
Tbh, I don't blame Wrex one bit. Post-war, odds are that krogan numbers would be down even more. No reason to believe the turians or salarians would go for the cure if their asses aren't backed against the wall. Fact is, they wouldn't go for it. Even Mordin felt that a genophage cure was necessary under the current circumstances. Once those circumstances change - the Reapers cease to be a threat - I'd imagine even Mordin would no longer think it a good idea. Think about it. The races have all been decimated but let's take the time to give the fastest-breeding race (this side of rachni) a cure that will allow them to probably take over the galaxy. No thanks. No, it had to happen before the war ended or else it was never going to happen. At least a grateful krogan race is less likely to go to war with the Council races, particularly with Wrex and Bakara in charge. Besides, Wrex wasn't asking for them to manufacture a cure. He knew it already existed. That made the odds of getting his way much more realistic. So if Wrex is justified in deliberately holding the fate of the entire galaxy hostage in order to garner future advantages for his species; and damn the rest; then I feel it is equally justified when certain Shepards choose to sabotage the cure, or if the rest of the galaxy, post Reaper war, decides that a Genophage 2.0 is needed in case the Krogan decide to get uppity again. This type of behavior is exactly what caused the Genophage deployment in the first place; the Krogan showing no regard for the other species' existence or how their actions might affect them. All of which points to a species that hasn't really proven itself "worthy of a second chance" let alone one that has learned from past mistakes. But you're making Wrex sound like he's unusual. Did the salarians agree to help with the genophage cure on the table? No. How about the asari? Nope, because it upset the dalatrass. Turians? Well, we had to do something for them first. Quarians? Geth? Both wanted something from us before helping.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Sept 26, 2017 12:04:47 GMT
So if Wrex is justified in deliberately holding the fate of the entire galaxy hostage in order to garner future advantages for his species; and damn the rest; then I feel it is equally justified when certain Shepards choose to sabotage the cure, or if the rest of the galaxy, post Reaper war, decides that a Genophage 2.0 is needed in case the Krogan decide to get uppity again. This type of behavior is exactly what caused the Genophage deployment in the first place; the Krogan showing no regard for the other species' existence or how their actions might affect them. All of which points to a species that hasn't really proven itself "worthy of a second chance" let alone one that has learned from past mistakes. But you're making Wrex sound like he's unusual. Did the salarians agree to help with the genophage cure on the table? No. How about the asari? Nope, because it upset the dalatrass. Turians? Well, we had to do something for them first. Quarians? Geth? Both wanted something from us before helping. Asari and Salarians you have a point with, and they should be held accountable for not giving support when it was asked and they were well within their power to do it; especially the Asari for not notifying anyone that they had a fully functional Prothean beacon. The Quarians and the Geth were idiots for starting a war with each other I'll admit, and then one side turning to the Reapers for help was beyond stupid, but it's not like they could drop everything they were doing and rush to help. And the Turians were already keeping the majority of the Reaper forces occupied thanks to their stubborn refusal to submit; they were already in the fight; if anything they were the veritable saints in the war since they actually agreed to give Shepard ships to 'Take Back Earth' even when it held no tactical value whatsoever and was far, far behind enemy lines. If the Tuckunka arc was about eliminating a Reaper precesence that was preventing the Krogan from sending aid I would have no problem with the delays. But the fact of the matter is Wrex could have sent his forces to help relieve Palaven from the moment it was asked of him, but he refused, and how many millions, or even billions of people perished because of that? Every day the war effort had to be put on hold so we could play doctor the Reapers continued to ground the rest of the galaxy to dust.
|
|