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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 26, 2017 12:19:03 GMT
Oh I see the distinct parallels between the Krogan and Rachni quite well. Wrex, for being a supposedly 'smart' Krogan, should have easily seen the connection when he encounters the Queen in the Peak 15 facility. A race being used by the others for the sole purpose of warfare, a species clearly intelligent when the Queen begins to communicate, seems quite similar to the Krogan. But no, its immeditly "Kill these monsters!" and "You're a fool for trusting them Shepard!" The same kind of things that can easily be said about his species. He really doesn't do his side any favors when he opens a heated debate by pulling a gun on Shepard on Virmire either, while the Queen only opted to talk. And in looking at the "requirements" to get the Rachni to send aid to the galaxy vs. what the Krogan demand is completely lopsided. All the Queen asks is for you to free her, as she is physically incapable of providing help otherwise. Then, once free, she immeditly joins the war effort. Hell, she will even allow herself to die if Shepard feels the Rachni are too dangerous to survive in ME 3, if the player freed her in ME 1, because the Rachni have the foresight to look at the bigger picture. Wrex and the Krogan on the other hand aren't being pinned down by Reaper fire, their homeworld isn't crawling with Reaper forces to the extent that Earth and Plaven are. They are completely within their power to help, but they choose not to. And this is all after Wrex's implicit promise of support in ME 2. But you seem to miss the very important part about the entire set up between the Krogan and Rachni on Noveria. True their aim with the Queen at that time and that place was to turn her children into weapons of war. How ever during first contact and the resulting Rachni War no one forced the Rachni to have the sole purpose of war. Wrex's comments are not based on the specific situation there on Noveria but based on the experiences of the Rachni acting of their own free will during the Rachni War. And I'm sure you will pull up the but the Reaper defense for them. That entire argument is on some fairly sketchy ground because the Queen was able to form a bond with the Huntress who was indoctrinated and knew about Sovereign and the Reapers. It wouldn't be very hard for anyone to make up an excuse that the Rachni of the past didn't act like that because they choose to but because the Reapers made them. If your only comparing ME3 events you are only looking at half the picture. If you release the Queen in ME1 then for 2.5 years give or take she is allowed to rebuild the Rachni race. In essence you cure their genophage. The result of that during the events of ME 3 all you have to do is rescue the queen again for her to pledge support. The Krogan's Genophage how ever has yet to be cured. And at that point in time Wrex was holding all the cards. The Turians want Krogan support and the Alliance needs the Turian support which requires the Krogan. Wrex is literally only asking for the very thing the Rachni already got. But to you one is perfectly ok and the other is clearly asking to much. I am not defending the Rachni's actions in the Rachni Wars, and neither does the queen. Its actually very different how the Rachni approach Shepard about their past atrocities versus how the Krogan deal with it. The Queen admits the Rachni did much harm in their war against the galaxy, but asks for the chance to prove her worth for a second chance. Wrex and the Krogan instead blame everyone else for their current predicaments and expect to receive handouts in the form of a cure and new worlds to settle because the rest of the galaxy was evil and wrong for enacting the Genophage in the first place. As for the ME 3 narratives, the Genophage cure was never what Wrex was asking for when he promised aid in ME 2. He didn't apporoch Shepard in the second game and go: "Now Shepard, I have all of these clans and warriors at my command, and I could send them to help you as soon as the Reapers arrive, but I won't. Not until you cure the Genophage and distribute that cure to all the Krogan living on Tuchunka." No, he said that a horde of his finest warriors would be at Shepard's beck and call as soon as the Reapers showed up. The sudden 180 he pulls in ME 3 is him moving the goalposts and reneging on his word. At no point previous to that time was his promise of aid dependent on certain concessions.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 26, 2017 12:23:30 GMT
But the fact of the matter is Wrex could have sent his forces to help relieve Palaven from the moment it was asked of him, but he refused, and how many millions, or even billions of people perished because of that? Every day the war effort had to be put on hold so we could play doctor the Reapers continued to ground the rest of the galaxy to dust. The same can be said for the asari for waiting until the last minute to reveal they have an artifact on their planet.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 26, 2017 12:37:00 GMT
But the fact of the matter is Wrex could have sent his forces to help relieve Palaven from the moment it was asked of him, but he refused, and how many millions, or even billions of people perished because of that? Every day the war effort had to be put on hold so we could play doctor the Reapers continued to ground the rest of the galaxy to dust. The same can be said for the asari for waiting until the last minute to reveal they have an artifact on their planet. I agree, and I said as much in one of my earlier posts. The three biggest dick moves pulled during the Reaper war, by people who should be allies and working together to stop the Reapers would have to be, in order from greatest to least 1. The Asari hiding the beacon 2. The Salarians for with holding ships because of Shepard's choice to work with the Krogan; though that was more the cartoonishly racist Dalatress, and the rest of the Salarian government eventually blows her off. 3. Wrex backing out on his promise of support until the Genophage is cured. EDIT: And while the Krogan issue is ranked lower on the overall list, I would still argue that at the time that the Tuchunka arch was going down, it was vitally more important. Sure the Prothean beacon was crucial to finishing the Crucible and actually defeating the Reapers, and that Salarian ships would have come in handy, but the fact of the matter was that the Turians need Krogan boots on the ground in order to free up their navy to help in other areas of the war. Without the support of the Krogan, Palaven would have fallen, and all the Prothean beacons in the world and all the Salarian navies wouldn't have helped much since the Reapers would have broken the only fighting force able to ensure that the bigger problems got dealt with; namely the protection and escorting of the Crucible to the Citadel.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 26, 2017 19:50:35 GMT
I don't get the whole "broshep" thing. He doesn't have any siblings, does he? Is it an American thing?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 27, 2017 3:22:28 GMT
I don't get the whole "broshep" thing. He doesn't have any siblings, does he? Is it an American thing? In the USA when two guys who are very close but not related we often start to call each other brother. Bro is also used by frat house members to be reference to each other because everyone is a bro.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 27, 2017 3:34:05 GMT
But you seem to miss the very important part about the entire set up between the Krogan and Rachni on Noveria. True their aim with the Queen at that time and that place was to turn her children into weapons of war. How ever during first contact and the resulting Rachni War no one forced the Rachni to have the sole purpose of war. Wrex's comments are not based on the specific situation there on Noveria but based on the experiences of the Rachni acting of their own free will during the Rachni War. And I'm sure you will pull up the but the Reaper defense for them. That entire argument is on some fairly sketchy ground because the Queen was able to form a bond with the Huntress who was indoctrinated and knew about Sovereign and the Reapers. It wouldn't be very hard for anyone to make up an excuse that the Rachni of the past didn't act like that because they choose to but because the Reapers made them. If your only comparing ME3 events you are only looking at half the picture. If you release the Queen in ME1 then for 2.5 years give or take she is allowed to rebuild the Rachni race. In essence you cure their genophage. The result of that during the events of ME 3 all you have to do is rescue the queen again for her to pledge support. The Krogan's Genophage how ever has yet to be cured. And at that point in time Wrex was holding all the cards. The Turians want Krogan support and the Alliance needs the Turian support which requires the Krogan. Wrex is literally only asking for the very thing the Rachni already got. But to you one is perfectly ok and the other is clearly asking to much. I am not defending the Rachni's actions in the Rachni Wars, and neither does the queen. Its actually very different how the Rachni approach Shepard about their past atrocities versus how the Krogan deal with it. The Queen admits the Rachni did much harm in their war against the galaxy, but asks for the chance to prove her worth for a second chance. Wrex and the Krogan instead blame everyone else for their current predicaments and expect to receive handouts in the form of a cure and new worlds to settle because the rest of the galaxy was evil and wrong for enacting the Genophage in the first place. As for the ME 3 narratives, the Genophage cure was never what Wrex was asking for when he promised aid in ME 2. He didn't apporoch Shepard in the second game and go: "Now Shepard, I have all of these clans and warriors at my command, and I could send them to help you as soon as the Reapers arrive, but I won't. Not until you cure the Genophage and distribute that cure to all the Krogan living on Tuchunka." No, he said that a horde of his finest warriors would be at Shepard's beck and call as soon as the Reapers showed up. The sudden 180 he pulls in ME 3 is him moving the goalposts and reneging on his word. At no point previous to that time was his promise of aid dependent on certain concessions. Rachni Queen blames a sour yellow note for the Rachni's action. Wrex blames everyone else because the Krogan were beaten then had a sterility plague unleashed on them. Then when they were beaten and broken the rest of the galaxy simply ignored them. Treating them like nothing more the brutes to fight for credits. Their entire society collapsed and the best responds the rest of the galaxy gave was who gives a fuck. The genophage cure wasn't an option during the events of ME 2. It is only because of the events of ME 2 that the Genophage cure becomes a possibility and armed with that knowledge and the need of the krogans that Wrex grabbed the moment and demanded a cure. The only time the Krogan would have any cards to play to compel the rest of the galaxy to give a fuck about them beyond use as a blunt weapon of war. Again you look at everything as separate rather then the singular flowing story. You can't ignore ME 2 completely until it is viable to use it to complain about something that happened in ME 3. The events of ME 1 cause the events in ME 2 caused the events in ME 3.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 27, 2017 12:12:39 GMT
I am not defending the Rachni's actions in the Rachni Wars, and neither does the queen. Its actually very different how the Rachni approach Shepard about their past atrocities versus how the Krogan deal with it. The Queen admits the Rachni did much harm in their war against the galaxy, but asks for the chance to prove her worth for a second chance. Wrex and the Krogan instead blame everyone else for their current predicaments and expect to receive handouts in the form of a cure and new worlds to settle because the rest of the galaxy was evil and wrong for enacting the Genophage in the first place. As for the ME 3 narratives, the Genophage cure was never what Wrex was asking for when he promised aid in ME 2. He didn't apporoch Shepard in the second game and go: "Now Shepard, I have all of these clans and warriors at my command, and I could send them to help you as soon as the Reapers arrive, but I won't. Not until you cure the Genophage and distribute that cure to all the Krogan living on Tuchunka." No, he said that a horde of his finest warriors would be at Shepard's beck and call as soon as the Reapers showed up. The sudden 180 he pulls in ME 3 is him moving the goalposts and reneging on his word. At no point previous to that time was his promise of aid dependent on certain concessions. Rachni Queen blames a sour yellow note for the Rachni's action. Wrex blames everyone else because the Krogan were beaten then had a sterility plague unleashed on them. Then when they were beaten and broken the rest of the galaxy simply ignored them. Treating them like nothing more the brutes to fight for credits. Their entire society collapsed and the best responds the rest of the galaxy gave was who gives a fuck. The genophage cure wasn't an option during the events of ME 2. It is only because of the events of ME 2 that the Genophage cure becomes a possibility and armed with that knowledge and the need of the krogans that Wrex grabbed the moment and demanded a cure. The only time the Krogan would have any cards to play to compel the rest of the galaxy to give a fuck about them beyond use as a blunt weapon of war. Again you look at everything as separate rather then the singular flowing story. You can't ignore ME 2 completely until it is viable to use it to complain about something that happened in ME 3. The events of ME 1 cause the events in ME 2 caused the events in ME 3. She says that a sour yellow note was the cause of discord among the Rachni, but she doesn't use that point as a crutch when dealing with Shepard. Indeed, she even says that "I will sing to my children of your forgiveness" should she be freed in ME 1 pointing to the notion that she knows what the earlier Rachni did was wrong, mind control or not, and that she will take the opportunity at a fresh start in order to not let history repeat itself; i.e. she acknowledges the sins her species committed in the past and absolves to correct them moving forward. Now there is some debate on whether Shepard should have been the one to make that choice, but he/she does. And once freed, the Rachni are never wavering in their promise of support, even after all her children are zombified and she has been held captive for at least six months. Wrex and your average Krogan, on the other hand, don't bother to look at what they did leading up to the Genophage deployment. Instead it's all biased in their favor how the evil galaxy wanted to be a dick and sterilized the poor, blameless Krogan for no reason. You don't see any Krogan going back and looking at the action their species committed during the Rebellions and think to themselves that maybe, just maybe the Krogan were being colossal dicks in their own right? From the hunting of other sapient aliens for sport, to the eating alive of captured Salarian soldiers, to redirecting asteroids against multiple (as in more than one) Turian garden worlds; an alien race not even part of the government the Krogan were rebelling against mind you; which to this day are still uninhabitable, to the widespread ecological disasters they turned any planet they held into, etc. The Krogan were far from blameless, and it's not like those actions are so far removed from their collective memories as to be a moot point either. Wrex was either a child when the Rebellions happened or born shortly afterwards, hell the Patriarch on Omega is a veteran of the Rachni Wars fought over 2,000 years ago, they don't have the weight of numerous generations to insulate them from what happened, many still living actually partook in the hostiles and, in a sense, are just living out their own prison sentence. Does Wrex take any of those facts into consideration when he blunders ahead for the cure? No, of course not. It's all, the Krogan were unjustly attacked and now the rest of the galaxy needs to pay them back for the wrongdoing, and anyone who feels otherwise is just a racist bigot. As for the galaxy not caring about the Krogan, that's another biased falsehood. What about the foodstuffs the Turians regularly send to Tuchunka? What about the Shroud that keeps their self-inflicted radioactive dustball even remotely livable; those little patches of green we see in ME 3? The Krogan can thank the Salarians for that. If the galaxy truly didn't care about the Krogan why would they waste time and resources keeping them alive? It's this refusal to acknowledge the parts they played in the past that helped lead to their current predicament that points to their species not learning anything, not maturing, not being willing to step into and become a part of greater galactic society; Wrex's sudden demand for the Genophage cure during the middle of a Reaper invasion and damn the consequences is just the tip of the iceberg. The whole situation surrounding the Tuchuka arc in ME 3 is like an apartment complex that is on fire. Its to the point that everyone is in danger of losing all that they own, some maybe even losing family members still trapped inside, and you are asking everyone to help. One tenant says yes, in fact he has a specialized water pump that should help make things easier for the firefighters working to put out the blaze and promises to be there. Yet when he shows up, he demands that you and the other tenants pay him for the use of his water pump otherwise he wont help. Sure he says that the money is for his family, as they are without, but that doesn't change the fact that he broke his promise and is being obstinate at the worst possible time. Do you think anyone will look highly on him, or his family for that matter, once everything is settled after a stunt like that?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 28, 2017 5:53:42 GMT
Rachni Queen blames a sour yellow note for the Rachni's action. Wrex blames everyone else because the Krogan were beaten then had a sterility plague unleashed on them. Then when they were beaten and broken the rest of the galaxy simply ignored them. Treating them like nothing more the brutes to fight for credits. Their entire society collapsed and the best responds the rest of the galaxy gave was who gives a fuck. The genophage cure wasn't an option during the events of ME 2. It is only because of the events of ME 2 that the Genophage cure becomes a possibility and armed with that knowledge and the need of the krogans that Wrex grabbed the moment and demanded a cure. The only time the Krogan would have any cards to play to compel the rest of the galaxy to give a fuck about them beyond use as a blunt weapon of war. Again you look at everything as separate rather then the singular flowing story. You can't ignore ME 2 completely until it is viable to use it to complain about something that happened in ME 3. The events of ME 1 cause the events in ME 2 caused the events in ME 3. She says that a sour yellow note was the cause of discord among the Rachni, but she doesn't use that point as a crutch when dealing with Shepard. Indeed, she even says that "I will sing to my children of your forgiveness" should she be freed in ME 1 pointing to the notion that she knows what the earlier Rachni did was wrong, mind control or not, and that she will take the opportunity at a fresh start in order to not let history repeat itself; i.e. she acknowledges the sins her species committed in the past and absolves to correct them moving forward. Now there is some debate on whether Shepard should have been the one to make that choice, but he/she does. And once freed, the Rachni are never wavering in their promise of support, even after all her children are zombified and she has been held captive for at least six months. Wrex and your average Krogan, on the other hand, don't bother to look at what they did leading up to the Genophage deployment. Instead it's all biased in their favor how the evil galaxy wanted to be a dick and sterilized the poor, blameless Krogan for no reason. You don't see any Krogan going back and looking at the action their species committed during the Rebellions and think to themselves that maybe, just maybe the Krogan were being colossal dicks in their own right? From the hunting of other sapient aliens for sport, to the eating alive of captured Salarian soldiers, to redirecting asteroids against multiple (as in more than one) Turian garden worlds; an alien race not even part of the government the Krogan were rebelling against mind you; which to this day are still uninhabitable, to the widespread ecological disasters they turned any planet they held into, etc. The Krogan were far from blameless, and it's not like those actions are so far removed from their collective memories as to be a moot point either. Wrex was either a child when the Rebellions happened or born shortly afterwards, hell the Patriarch on Omega is a veteran of the Rachni Wars fought over 2,000 years ago, they don't have the weight of numerous generations to insulate them from what happened, many still living actually partook in the hostiles and, in a sense, are just living out their own prison sentence. Does Wrex take any of those facts into consideration when he blunders ahead for the cure? No, of course not. It's all, the Krogan were unjustly attacked and now the rest of the galaxy needs to pay them back for the wrongdoing, and anyone who feels otherwise is just a racist bigot. As for the galaxy not caring about the Krogan, that's another biased falsehood. What about the foodstuffs the Turians regularly send to Tuchunka? What about the Shroud that keeps their self-inflicted radioactive dustball even remotely livable; those little patches of green we see in ME 3? The Krogan can thank the Salarians for that. If the galaxy truly didn't care about the Krogan why would they waste time and resources keeping them alive? It's this refusal to acknowledge the parts they played in the past that helped lead to their current predicament that points to their species not learning anything, not maturing, not being willing to step into and become a part of greater galactic society; Wrex's sudden demand for the Genophage cure during the middle of a Reaper invasion and damn the consequences is just the tip of the iceberg. The whole situation surrounding the Tuchuka arc in ME 3 is like an apartment complex that is on fire. Its to the point that everyone is in danger of losing all that they own, some maybe even losing family members still trapped inside, and you are asking everyone to help. One tenant says yes, in fact he has a specialized water pump that should help make things easier for the firefighters working to put out the blaze and promises to be there. Yet when he shows up, he demands that you and the other tenants pay him for the use of his water pump otherwise he wont help. Sure he says that the money is for his family, as they are without, but that doesn't change the fact that he broke his promise and is being obstinate at the worst possible time. Do you think anyone will look highly on him, or his family for that matter, once everything is settled after a stunt like that? There is a lot of stuff with the Queen that doesn't add up that I don't feel like getting into right now. But suffice to say the Queen places the majority if not the entire blame on the sour yellow note for the actions of the Rachni in the past during the Rachni War. And like Dr. House always says everybody lies. Your going to have to show me were it said they ate Salarian Soldiers alive because that is pretty metal. As for how they conducted themselves during the Krogan Rebellion that is how they wage war. It is what they did before they were uplifted, what they did to the Rachni and of course what they did when they went to war against the Council. The issue to the Krogan has never been that they think they were justified but what happened after they lost. They were stripped of everything, banished to their home world and treated like nothing but mindless brutes who could never be more then just that. Never given a chance a second thought or any care about their future. That is why Wrex is so gun ho about getting Genophage cure. To provide his people with hope for their future. And Wrex unlike Wreav shows he is at least willing to attempt to learn from the past and not repeat the mistakes. The Shroud was the last one standing that was build on Tuchunka when the Krogan were uplifted. That was the last one that was left standing during the final invasion of Tuchunka during the Krogan Rebellion. Where does it say the Turians bring Krogan food on Tuchunka? Because I know they left them a bomb big enough to blow a new anus in the planet. On top of that Turian food doesn't fit for the Krogan and it seems based on ME 2 that the Krogan barter, trade and hunt for food rather then it being given to them. But the events of ME 3 are nothing like your example because Wrex already gave up a possible cure for his people for the benefit of the rest of the galaxy once. Then a chance at a cure happens and that one chance it taken by the Salarians and hidden from everyone as they directly attempt to effect the Krogan as they see fit rather then the Krogan see fit. Not even bringing this up to a vote with the other Council races. And your own posts make Wrex's point a thousand times over. You are more then happy to point out that the Krogan to you are blood thirsty psychopaths who don't learn nothing ever and just like to fight and kill. So why in any reality would anyone agree to cure the Genophage after the war with the Reapers was over? Your every attempt to argue for your point only continues to add weight to Wrex's point.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 28, 2017 20:38:57 GMT
This thread's having a little rest while we sort it out...
By all means disagree, but we're not going to insult each other. (posts removed)
On with the thread...
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Post by themikefest on Oct 2, 2017 10:50:31 GMT
Not sure if this would be unpopular, but I believe if the trilogy were to get remastered, it would sell more copies than MEA
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Post by tacsear on Oct 2, 2017 16:45:08 GMT
Not sure if this would be unpopular, but I believe if the trilogy were to get remastered, it would sell more copies than MEA It is not even an opinion, it's a fact
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Post by boxofscreaming on Oct 2, 2017 18:38:03 GMT
Mass Effect 2 was great and all, but I still have a hard time getting my head around my Shepard working with Cerberus. They murdered Alliance soldiers in the first game and his comrades in the back story. Ashley/Kaidan had a very good point on Horizon.
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 2, 2017 18:48:06 GMT
Mass Effect 2 was great and all, but I still have a hard time getting my head around my Shepard working with Cerberus. They murdered Alliance soldiers in the first game and his comrades in the back story. Ashley/Kaidan had a very good point on Horizon. 100% agreement. I never understood why Shepard didn't just tell Anderson he was leaving Cerberus the instant he stepped foot on the Citadel. This could fit firmly in the "things that don't make sense" thread.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 2, 2017 19:04:29 GMT
100% agreement. I never understood why Shepard didn't just tell Anderson he was leaving Cerberus the instant he stepped foot on the Citadel. This could fit firmly in the "things that don't make sense" thread. I don't agree. My Shepard had no problem working with Cerberus especially after Anderson says its up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 2, 2017 19:20:36 GMT
I never really got Cerberus' whole mission statement about securing the advancement and superiority of humanity, especially when compared to how humanity as a whole was depicted in the setting. They and organizations like Terra Firma seemed rather redundant actually.
In no area of galactic society is humanity ever seen as lacking, let alone being an underdog. We are economically outpacing the Volus (creators of the galactic economy) flying circles around the Turians in military acumen and development (the military arm of the galaxy) the Slarians are green with envy at our technological advances (the resident mad scientists of the galaxy) even the Asari are impressed with our ability to enact diplomatic change, as well as our biotic potential (the great orators and space wizards of the galaxy). Etc. We have a Citadel embassy in less than thirty years, while races like the Elcor and Volus had to wait over a century; and we get our very own office to boot! Less than thirty years as part of galactic society and the Council is already considering humanity as a Sepctre candidate, and we end the first game with a human Council member, potentially even an entire human led Council. How does any of that paint our species as being at the bottom of the totem pole in galactic society?
If anything the Elcor, Hanar and Volus are the underdogs we should be rooting for.
It just seems rather underwhelming when you have this pro-human terrorist organization going on and on about how we need to ensure humanity is dominate in the galaxy when we already are.
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Post by Phantom on Oct 2, 2017 22:23:55 GMT
100% agreement. I never understood why Shepard didn't just tell Anderson he was leaving Cerberus the instant he stepped foot on the Citadel. This could fit firmly in the "things that don't make sense" thread. I don't agree. My Shepard had no problem working with Cerberus especially after Anderson says its up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. I am sure that a few Shepards actually feel that way as your Shepard does. For Example, My Marcus Shepard is very much a Cerberus Supporter and thinks that Liara is a bit clingy of an ally. Just say, he doesn't see her as a friend at time.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Oct 28, 2017 19:59:33 GMT
I'm completely opposed to any of the Mass Effect games being "remastered". You might as well colorize Citizen Kane.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 28, 2017 20:40:05 GMT
I'm completely opposed to any of the Mass Effect games being "remastered". You might as well colorize Citizen Kane. As much a fan as I am of the series you seem to be going a little far with that.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 28, 2017 22:27:50 GMT
Grunt, if he is indeed supposed to be a shining example of the genetically perfect Krogan his 'Father' Okeer claims, doesn't speak overly well for the rest of his species in the combat department. Case in point, he is nearly killed fighting a handful of Ravengers. Ravengers. Rachni zombies that have had their arms, claws and teeth-filled faces ripped off by the Reapers in favor of long range weaponry; weapons totally ineffective at anything even resembling close range. This 'tank born' is sent to the hospital in critical condition after fighting these monsters after screaming "I AM KROGAN!" and we're supposed to cheer him on, or feel impressed? Yeah, so much for Krogan prowess. Had he been up against actual Rachni Brood Warriors he would have been ripped to little bloody shreds before he could even get halfway through his species' collective tagline.
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Post by nougat on Oct 29, 2017 5:05:25 GMT
Yeah, Bioware tried really hard to sell that, in Solus' words, Turians (and thus the whole war effort) doomed without krogan support, by overblowing the worthness of backwater krogan war assets. How exactly the krogan forces supposed to take pressure off from Palaven, while they have to appeal to the Alliance and Turian hierarchy for help to get rid of one (!) destroyer. And then, it's Karlos Kalros who eats it. No credit for krogan. And the strain on turian fleet from relocation of krogan forces from Tuchanka to Palaven? Is it worth it? I find an argument that Krogan are needed as endless supply of the best soldiers as a bit silly. And?.. If fleets are no longer around, those best soldiers are stuck on their homeworld (if it's not already glassed by that time). What exactly they can do against giant starships? They have no scientists, no ships, nothing except for cannon fodder for husks to chew. And fighting husks is futile and irrelevant. And to think that galactic superpower Salarian Union is brushed aside in favor of brawl and feel good arc... *FL Moreau long laugh track* [edited some spelling]
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 29, 2017 6:04:53 GMT
Grunt, if he is indeed supposed to be a shining example of the genetically perfect Krogan his 'Father' Okeer claims, doesn't speak overly well for the rest of his species in the combat department. Case in point, he is nearly killed fighting a handful of Ravengers. Ravengers. Rachni zombies that have had their arms, claws and teeth-filled faces ripped off by the Reapers in favor of long range weaponry; weapons totally ineffective at anything even resembling close range. This 'tank born' is sent to the hospital in critical condition after fighting these monsters after screaming "I AM KROGAN!" and we're supposed to cheer him on, or feel impressed? Yeah, so much for Krogan prowess. Had he been up against actual Rachni Brood Warriors he would have been ripped to little bloody shreds before he could even get halfway through his species' collective tagline. Last time I checked you could fire a cannon off at point blank range. Particularly when the cannon is sentient and has no sense of self preservation.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 29, 2017 6:17:34 GMT
Yeah, Bioware tried really hard to sell that, in Solus' words, Turians (and thus the whole war effort) doomed without krogan support, by overblowing the worthness of backwater krogan war assets. How exactly the krogan forces supposed to take pressure off from Palaven, while they have to appeal to the Alliance and Turian hierarchy for help to get rid of one (!) destroyer. And then, it's Karlos who eats it. No credit for krogan. And the strain on turian fleet from relocation of krogan forces from Tuchanka to Palaven? Is it worth it? I find an argument that Krogan are needed as endless supply of the best soldiers as a bit silly. And?.. If fleets are no longer around, those best soldiers are stuck on their homeworld (if it's not already glassed by that time). What exactly they can do against giant starships? They have no scientists, no ships, nothing except for cannon fodder for husks to chew. And fighting husks is futile and irrelevant. And to think that galactic superpower Salarian Union is brashed aside in favor of brawl and feel good arc... *FL Moreau long laugh track*Krogan's excel at front line fighting. They can deal and take damage that would kill any other existing non Reaper race. More Krogan fighting on the ground allows more Turians to be pulled off the front line for evacuations, scouting, sabotage, etc. The minor inconvenience of shipping the Krogan to Palivan is more then made up for by the Krogan able to go toe to toe with the Reaper forces in ways the Turians are incapable of doing. The Turian Military Fleet would be relatively unaffected as all you need is a ship with an ME drive and cargo space. Essentially loading troops up into an 18 wheeler and driving them to were they need to get. I believe there was a movie released not long ago that was based on the historical actions of WW2. In which during the English retreat to the English Channel a fleet of civilian ships stepped up to pull trapped soldiers off the beaches of Dunkirk. Saving 300,000 men nearly ten times the estimated amount that would have been saved other wise. Salarian's are brilliant idiots.
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Post by nougat on Oct 29, 2017 12:16:22 GMT
The aid that clan Urdnot and other clans can provide is not worthless, but it's inadequately exaggerated by story and especially war assets system. Both Wrex and Wreav prematurely brag after fighting some husks at the Hollows: They'll sing battle-songs about this someday. Reaper blood has finally soaked our soil. And so it begins! History will show that Clan Urdnot drew first Reaper blood. With such bluster and sense of entitlement there is gonna be repeat of post-Rachni wars' situation, no doubt. But that's another topic.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 29, 2017 12:34:53 GMT
Yeah, Bioware tried really hard to sell that, in Solus' words, Turians (and thus the whole war effort) doomed without krogan support, by overblowing the worthness of backwater krogan war assets. How exactly the krogan forces supposed to take pressure off from Palaven, while they have to appeal to the Alliance and Turian hierarchy for help to get rid of one (!) destroyer. And then, it's Karlos who eats it. No credit for krogan. And the strain on turian fleet from relocation of krogan forces from Tuchanka to Palaven? Is it worth it? I find an argument that Krogan are needed as endless supply of the best soldiers as a bit silly. And?.. If fleets are no longer around, those best soldiers are stuck on their homeworld (if it's not already glassed by that time). What exactly they can do against giant starships? They have no scientists, no ships, nothing except for cannon fodder for husks to chew. And fighting husks is futile and irrelevant. And to think that galactic superpower Salarian Union is brashed aside in favor of brawl and feel good arc... *FL Moreau long laugh track*Yeah too bad the narrative dictated the Rachni had to be taken out (off camera no less). They would actually be far more useful than the Krogan in terms of ground combatants. I mean consider what they bring to the table: Massive birth rate potential, enough so that a single queen can lay enough in two years time to have an army capable of galactic levels of deployment Combat ready the moment they hatch Natural weapons and armor on par with modern day equivalents Able to withstand extreme environments and atmospheres with out the need for additional protection. Incredibly disciplined, no previous grudges or bravado to cloud their actions Virtually immune to the effects of indoctrination, while else would the Reapers have to keep the queen under lock and key and husk-ify all the Rachni warriors On top of that they have immense uses off the battlefield as well, such as their skill at being natural engineers. If saved the Rachni jumped to work on the Crucible alongside the best of the galaxy's scientists only moments after hatching. They are far more useful than the Krogan, which is why the narrative had them wiped out prior to game 3 I suppose.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 29, 2017 12:36:31 GMT
Grunt, if he is indeed supposed to be a shining example of the genetically perfect Krogan his 'Father' Okeer claims, doesn't speak overly well for the rest of his species in the combat department. Case in point, he is nearly killed fighting a handful of Ravengers. Ravengers. Rachni zombies that have had their arms, claws and teeth-filled faces ripped off by the Reapers in favor of long range weaponry; weapons totally ineffective at anything even resembling close range. This 'tank born' is sent to the hospital in critical condition after fighting these monsters after screaming "I AM KROGAN!" and we're supposed to cheer him on, or feel impressed? Yeah, so much for Krogan prowess. Had he been up against actual Rachni Brood Warriors he would have been ripped to little bloody shreds before he could even get halfway through his species' collective tagline. Last time I checked you could fire a cannon off at point blank range. Particularly when the cannon is sentient and has no sense of self preservation. Except none of the Ravengers actually shot at Grunt, all they did was fuitfully bump into him, and he still almost dies. If those would have been actual Rachni Grunt wouldn't have stood a chance.
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