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Post by themikefest on May 18, 2018 11:21:32 GMT
This contentious topic has probably been fleshed out and shot down many times here and in the original Bioware forums, but I have to add my wish to see Shepard return to the series. Chances are incredibly slim to none, but one can hope. Although many of the red shirts of Bioware's fandom would disagree, Shepard's story is not necessarily "done". It would not be hard for Shepard to return. Yes there are people who would not agree. Here's something I posted that can have Shepard return for another game. I'm sure there are people that agree with you. Shepard will be remembered as the first main character in the series.
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Post by sugarless on May 18, 2018 13:00:07 GMT
This contentious topic has probably been fleshed out and shot down many times here and in the original Bioware forums, but I have to add my wish to see Shepard return to the series. Chances are incredibly slim to none, but one can hope. Although many of the red shirts of Bioware's fandom would disagree, Shepard's story is not necessarily "done". It would not be hard for Shepard to return. Yes there are people who would not agree. Here's something I posted that can have Shepard return for another game. I'm sure there are people that agree with you. Shepard will be remembered as the first main character in the series. I saw your post about that before - and liked it very much. Here's hoping they're reading these forums for more than the usual game feedback.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 14:10:34 GMT
For me, Mass Effect is Shepard, the Normandy, his/her crew and their experiences/adventures etc. Andromeda is only a spin-off.
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Post by themikefest on May 18, 2018 20:18:49 GMT
I saw your post about that before - and liked it very much. Here's hoping they're reading these forums for more than the usual game feedback. They might be looking at this forum. They might see my post and get a good laugh or nod in approval.They might take a part of it to use in a different way from what I posted. People can have good ideas, but its Bioware who will decide the story they want to tell and what they want to put in the game.
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Post by obbie1984 on May 18, 2018 21:38:04 GMT
The thing with Ash/Kaidan is at the very least they come around. It takes them a game and a half, but I blame Bioware for that more than anything. Shepard doesn't come out particularly great either in this scenario either. I also feel the Ash/Kaidan bit was added for a bit of forced drama. But at the very least, you have options with them. You can prove your loyalty and forgive them when they apologize for doubting you, you can get rid of them, or you can kill them. That's more than you can say for some other characters. I still think the scenes are not terrible if its a romanced Ash or Kaidan in general. Kaidan is a very by the books soldier. Ash romanced seems very hurt about Shepard not letting her know that he's alive. Him working for Cerberus is just another thing she is pissed off about on top of the fact that the man she loved didn't even bother contacting her. This is an issue I have with ME2. You cannot contact Ash/Kaidan in ME2 as they are barely in the game. And everything themikefest said about Liara is just one of the many reasons I consider her a trash character who is beyond obnoxious. Unlike Kaidan/Ash you have no options with this character outside of neglecting her in ME3. I'd also be pretty pissed if one of my family was killed by the Collectors and this useless asari didn't decide to inform anyone about this threat.
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Post by obbie1984 on May 18, 2018 21:43:13 GMT
I also wanted to add another thing for unpopular opinion. Not sure if this qualifies:
Meer is overall very good, and I think in many instances is better than Hale. I think each excel at different things and both have noticeable weaknesses. Overall, I prefer Meer's acting to Hale's. Hale's deliveries are way too one note and similar to each other. Though I have a femshep I absolutely adore, I still prefer broshep a bit more.
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Post by opuspace on May 25, 2018 14:06:41 GMT
I think Aria is a bit overhyped about her competence
Aria: Nyreen's code of ethics won't let her sit by if civilians are exposed. It's what makes her utterly predictable and easy to manipulate.
Flashback:
Aria (After finding out Nyreen never left Omega): I'm not easily duped. Well done.
Aria (On finding out Nyreen leads the Talons): Well, well, aren't you full of surprises.
Later on... -Runs headlong into another of General Petrovsky's bait and has to be saved after being manipulated.
Oh and that's not counting the times when she:
-Couldn't keep an eye on Nyreen and keep her from slipping away
-Had sacrificed too many of her own people and ships when they already had the needed recording to be allowed closer to dock while Nyreen had been successfully keeping civilians safe and organizing the resistance against Petrovsky
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Post by themikefest on May 29, 2018 12:46:04 GMT
Character deaths in ME3 to have the feels, but the lead up to their deaths were lame.
If Jack is not in ME3, Pressley is killed. The scene is exactly the same as if Jack was there except Bioware decided to kill the kid. No reason for it. It was done for the feels. He could survive. Shepard has two squadmates, right? Why couldn't they provide cover fire?
Mordin dying when curing the genophage. No reason for it. He finds out that there is a malfunction using the panel on the ground, but it can only be fixed at the top of the shroud. I do agree its sad he dies, but I also laughed. Why couldn't the panel on the ground fix the problem? Its was done for the feels
Thane. The whole scene was bad, very bad. He has his weapon against Leng's head. Why didn't he shoot? Then he decides to play chicken. When talking with him, in the hospital, he will say, that assassin should be embarrassed for letting a terminally ill drell stop him from reaching his target. I laughed when he said that. No thane. Had you shot him when you had the chance, most likely you would not be on your bed dying. For someone who is very good at what he does, he looked really pathetic.
Tali's death when choosing the geth. Remember in ME1? She threw a grenade at her attackers. What happened since that time? Now with the geth chosen, she stands there doing a whole lot of nothing. Why didn't she use her knife to stab the geth? Why didn't she push the thing off the cliff? She lets the geth upload the code then stand there crying like the little weasel she is watching her species die. I wanted my Shepard to laugh as she fell off the cliff. For me, it's one of the funniest moments in the game. The scene was done for the feels.
Andersons death. Was it necessary? TIM already proved his point being able to control Shepard and Anderson. Having Anderson shot was overkill. I would even go back as far as the beam run that setup that scene. As Shepard is getting to his/her feet, Harbinger is seen flying away. Over the comms, voices can be heard saying retreat, regroup. Why is that? The reaper is gone. They must have suffered temporary blindness. Only Shepard and Anderson make it up the beam. How different would things have been on the Citadel if others went up the beam as well?
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Post by dmc1001 on May 29, 2018 13:51:06 GMT
Andersons death. Was it necessary? TIM already proved his point being able to control Shepard and Anderson. Having Anderson shot was overkill. I would even go back as far as the beam run that setup that scene. As Shepard is getting to his/her feet, Harbinger is seen flying away. Over the comms, voices can be heard saying retreat, regroup. Why is that? The reaper is gone. They must have suffered temporary blindness. Only Shepard and Anderson make it up the beam. How different would things have been on the Citadel if others went up the beam as well? In this case, yes, because TIM was indoctrinated. We know from Vendetta that other cycles (maybe all of them) have had an organization that is convinced they're helping but are actually working against their cycle. They will then kill anyone who gets in their way. TIM behaves exactly like Saren except that Saren never learned how to use dark energy. I'm sure he would have gotten around to killing or indoctrinating Shepard if he didn't die.
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Post by themikefest on May 29, 2018 13:56:35 GMT
In this case, yes, because TIM was indoctrinated. We know from Vendetta that other cycles (maybe all of them) have had an organization that is convinced they're helping but are actually working against their cycle. They will then kill anyone who gets in their way. TIM behaves exactly like Saren except that Saren never learned how to use dark energy. I'm sure he would have gotten around to killing or indoctrinating Shepard if he didn't die. At that point it was the catalyst that was controlling TIM. I would guess the only reason Shepard was able to use to the power of the voice to have TIM shoot himself is because there was likely enough of TIM left that wasn't indoctrinated like how Shepard was able to have Saren shoot himself
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Post by AnDromedary on May 29, 2018 16:17:09 GMT
In this case, yes, because TIM was indoctrinated. We know from Vendetta that other cycles (maybe all of them) have had an organization that is convinced they're helping but are actually working against their cycle. They will then kill anyone who gets in their way. TIM behaves exactly like Saren except that Saren never learned how to use dark energy. I'm sure he would have gotten around to killing or indoctrinating Shepard if he didn't die. At that point it was the catalyst that was controlling TIM. I would guess the only reason Shepard was able to use to the power of the voice to have TIM shoot himself is because there was likely enough of TIM left that wasn't indoctrinated like how Shepard was able to have Saren shoot himself The question is how directly the catalyst would control an indoctrinated TIM. If we think back to Saren for example, reaper indoctrination did not allow Sovereign to control him. Instead, indoctrination twisted Saren's own long standing thoughts and preconceptions so that his actions would benefit the reapers. Maybe it was something similar with TIM. indoctrination twisted his (maybe at some point well intended) scheme to control the reapers into this idea that Shepard and Anderson were out to cross his plans, rather than anything else. At least during the dialogue with TIM I don't get the feeling that he is controlled by the catalyst but rather that he basically just lost it and has this insane idea about his plan now and that he sees Shep and Anderson mainly as standing in his way to achieve his own victory. It's tough to say though because that entire dialogue is a pretty bis mess as it is. Also, the way TIM in turn can suddenly control Shepard's and Anderson's bodies (but not their minds) is also in contrast to everything we heard about this sort of thing, so it's hard to tell what exactly is going on there.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 29, 2018 17:00:20 GMT
Certainly unpopular for the majority of the BioWare writing team and current mainstream entrainment, if no one else, but I really didn't like the whole Geth 'pinocchio-bot' plot line, nor EDI's sexbot body when it came to depicting AIs in science fiction. It's also the same reason why I don't particularly care for HBO's Westworld (stopped watching after the first season) and why I have no desire to pick up Detroit: Become Human.
Namely the notion that AIs are, by their very nature, not human, and that by trying force them to become just like us in our fiction; either for some laughably juvenile allegory of racism/slavery, or to just have them as f***buddies; cheapens the concept behind them in the first place.
The Geth in ME 2 were an AI that stretched the audiences' comfort levels in how they could relate to them. It wasn't some painfully shoehorned in representation of 'not-racism' that defined what the Geth were and how they interacted with the rest of organic society. From the Morning War up until the modern day they viewed the galaxy completely different from most players' perceptions, their reasons for doing what they did originated from places wholly different from what we could find familiar. In other words: they were distinctly alien. Sure, they weren't so foreign to our sensibilities as to be impossible to understand, but there was enough thought and effort put into Legion and the Geth's characterization that they were set apart from any other squad mate or alien race Shepard came across. Turning around in ME 3 and throwing away all of that uniqueness and nuance in favor of little robots that just wanted to be 'real boys' (as if they weren't a legitimate form of life to begin with) was intellectually insulting, a dumbing down of the rich setting all in the name of 'the feelz'.
Likewise, EDI suffered a similar fate. Rather than try to explore the nature of human/AI relations insofar as it could be possible for sapient information beings, and creatures of flesh and blood, the writers opted to instead go with the lowbrow approach of giving the AI character robo-tits and a synthetic camel toe for the players to gawk at. Instead of EDI being defined as sapient based on her creation and actions during ME 2, she only "felt truly alive" once she expressed romantic desires, and adopted a form us humans would find appealing.
This kind of anthropomorphizing is not limited to just Mass Effect obviously, but it was really a letdown that a formally unique science fiction setting decided to conform with the rest of the mainstream creations than hold onto its individuality.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 29, 2018 20:13:43 GMT
This kind of anthropomorphizing is not limited to just Mass Effect obviously, but it was really a letdown that a formally unique science fiction setting decided to conform with the rest of the mainstream creations than hold onto its individuality. I see where you're coming from but I think the issue with the geth was that no one was going to see them as a true race unless they fit into the "normal" pattern. Would have worked better if we were also introduced (even if largely in the background) to a species that was composed of a hive mind. That would make the geth seem more plausible as a distinct species, even if a hive mind doesn't exactly fit them.
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Post by Vortex13 on May 29, 2018 22:56:55 GMT
This kind of anthropomorphizing is not limited to just Mass Effect obviously, but it was really a letdown that a formally unique science fiction setting decided to conform with the rest of the mainstream creations than hold onto its individuality. I see where you're coming from but I think the issue with the geth was that no one was going to see them as a true race unless they fit into the "normal" pattern. Would have worked better if we were also introduced (even if largely in the background) to a species that was composed of a hive mind. That would make the geth seem more plausible as a distinct species, even if a hive mind doesn't exactly fit them. I disagree. I had no problem viewing them as a 'true' race back in ME 2, and the existing framework and background provided for them by writers like Chris Le'Toile was more than adequate for them to exist as a unique alien species alongside all the more human-like ones. If the Geth's 'one-off' nature was truly too off putting to the general playerbase than BioWare should have expanded the other unique aliens, like the Rachni, Elcor and Hanar, to help make the galaxy feel more varied rather than neuter one of the few 'alien' species of the setting so we could have more rubber fore-headed humans running around. Seems rather ironic that despite BioWare's continued imperative towards embracing the almighty "diversity" quota in their games they are apparently really quick to alter said games of elements because they are "too different".
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Post by dmc1001 on May 30, 2018 2:43:00 GMT
I disagree. I had no problem viewing them as a 'true' race back in ME 2, Except that in ME2 they had already individualized Legion. Legion wore a piece of Shepard's armor and refused to discuss why. That was the action of an individual rather than a bunch of programs. Consider Legion attempting to send quarian data to the other geth. If Legion were truly a bunch of programs in one unit would that even be necessary? No, we were seeing an individual who wanted to send information to the geth consensus. Unnecessary for a gestalt entity.
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Post by themikefest on May 30, 2018 2:59:58 GMT
I disagree. I had no problem viewing them as a 'true' race back in ME 2, Except that in ME2 they had already individualized Legion. Legion wore a piece of Shepard's armor and refused to discuss why. That was the action of an individual rather than a bunch of programs. Consider Legion attempting to send quarian data to the other geth. If Legion were truly a bunch of programs in one unit would that even be necessary? No, we were seeing an individual who wanted to send information to the geth consensus. Unnecessary for a gestalt entity. And after the suicide mission is completed, Shepard is able to ask how Legion got it. The other thing is his writer, Chris L'Etoile, said that someone with a higher paycheck thought it would be cool for the geth to have N7 armor.
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Post by obbie1984 on May 30, 2018 21:52:51 GMT
The more I play the series, the more I realize I generally don't care about most of the squadmates and their problems. I only truly dislike Liara, but I just don't care about many of the squadmates.
In ME2, I think Kasumi, Thane, Legion, and sometimes Tali are the only ones I really like. I don't care about the rest. And in ME3, its pretty much just Ash/Kaidan and Javik. I would include Wrex in ME3, but he's not a true squadmate.
I like these few for their combat abilities and their personality. The rest, I only like for one thing or the other. And in some cases, neither.
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Post by melbella on Jun 1, 2018 1:39:17 GMT
Except that in ME2 they had already individualized Legion. Legion wore a piece of Shepard's armor and refused to discuss why. That was the action of an individual rather than a bunch of programs. Consider Legion attempting to send quarian data to the other geth. If Legion were truly a bunch of programs in one unit would that even be necessary? No, we were seeing an individual who wanted to send information to the geth consensus. Unnecessary for a gestalt entity. And after the suicide mission is completed, Shepard is able to ask how Legion got it. The other thing is his writer, Chris L'Etoile, said that someone with a higher paycheck thought it would be cool for the geth to have N7 armor.
Legion answers why he needed the armor - to make a repair. He doesn't say why he's wearing that particular armor instead of using something else sooner (remember, he said he was shot on Eden Prime, but he wouldn't have found Shepard's armor until traveling all over the place and finding it on Alchera). His response to that question (why this and not something else) is, "No data available."
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 1, 2018 5:53:24 GMT
And after the suicide mission is completed, Shepard is able to ask how Legion got it. The other thing is his writer, Chris L'Etoile, said that someone with a higher paycheck thought it would be cool for the geth to have N7 armor.
Legion answers why he needed the armor - to make a repair. He doesn't say why he's wearing that particular armor instead of using something else sooner (remember, he said he was shot on Eden Prime, but he wouldn't have found Shepard's armor until traveling all over the place and finding it on Alchera). His response to that question (why this and not something else) is, "No data available."
Exactly where I'm coming from. Legion was already an individual in ME2 so arguing that the geth were "changed" in ME3 isn't quite accurate. They were upgraded by the Reapers, for sure, but that's more a power output than a thinking issue.
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Post by turianlannister on Dec 19, 2020 16:03:49 GMT
Ashley/Kaidan should have been required for the Arrival DLC
Default ME3 FemShep should have gotten an actual face model
Mark Meer should have been the face model for default MShep, Sheploo looks like a standard Hollywood meat head
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Post by turianlannister on Dec 20, 2020 15:11:28 GMT
Thought of something else, regarding the audio messages from the Milky Way at the end of the game about the reaper attack the message from the Normandy should have been Shepard and not Liara
I remember seeing someone (might have been from the old BSN) saying that instead of Kai Leng Cerberus should have resurrected whoever Shepard sacrificed on Virmire, indoctrinated them and sent them after Shepard, I agree, unlike Kai Leng you wouldn't have needed to read the books to get their back story and Shepard has history with them
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Post by Primitive God on Jan 14, 2021 18:42:24 GMT
Part of me wishes they had just gone the action game route for all 3.. made Shepard a more fleshed out protagonist.. keep paragon, renegade but make it a choice at the start during cc.. and have Auto responses thereafter based on which side of the coin you chose.. so two definitive Shepard's.. white knight and rouge agent.. maybe you can choose the tone of which he speaks . Similar to Andromeda.. professional, snarky, idealistic, cynical etc Shepard as a character could of been a lot greater than what was presented.. too many choices... Too many variables leave us with a very blank protag.. no matter how much we head canon..
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Post by michaeln7 on Feb 10, 2021 12:24:46 GMT
Okay, here's one for y'all.
I think Cerberus isn't a terrible idea. WAIT! Hold the fanaticism.
I said IDEA, not their methods or experiments or the terrorism or all that crap.
As Miranda puts it, there's the Asari Commandos, Salarian STG, Turian Blackwatch, "...Cerberus is humanity's answer to those organizations."
Or as Paragon Shepard puts it: "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword, not a dagger in our back!"
I liked the side missions involving Cerberus defectors, but I would have liked to see a potential plot point akin to forging peace between geth and quarians.
I.E. you'd have to REALLY nail it to happen, where enough of the organization is convinced to abandon the Illusive Man in some epic cutscene, where he has the realization that he's lost.
PARAGON: "We were supposed to be the best. You saw what we did to stop the Collectors. The Reapers want to divide and conquer us, but they can't win as long as we stand united. Are you with me?"
RENEGADE: "You're supposed to be the best? Look at what I've been able to accomplish, in spite of your efforts. You see how weak your 'Illusive Man' has become, do you really want to be stuck to that sinking ship?"
I know that would be hard to write, what with indoctrination and all, but I think it's a cool idea.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 10, 2021 19:57:14 GMT
Okay, here's one for y'all. I think Cerberus isn't a terrible idea. WAIT! Hold the fanaticism. I said IDEA, not their methods or experiments or the terrorism or all that crap. As Miranda puts it, there's the Asari Commandos, Salarian STG, Turian Blackwatch, "...Cerberus is humanity's answer to those organizations." Or as Paragon Shepard puts it: "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword, not a dagger in our back!" I liked the side missions involving Cerberus defectors, but I would have liked to see a potential plot point akin to forging peace between geth and quarians. I.E. you'd have to REALLY nail it to happen, where enough of the organization is convinced to abandon the Illusive Man in some epic cutscene, where he has the realization that he's lost. PARAGON: "We were supposed to be the best. You saw what we did to stop the Collectors. The Reapers want to divide and conquer us, but they can't win as long as we stand united. Are you with me?" RENEGADE: "You're supposed to be the best? Look at what I've been able to accomplish, in spite of your efforts. You see how weak your 'Illusive Man' has become, do you really want to be stuck to that sinking ship?" I know that would be hard to write, what with indoctrination and all, but I think it's a cool idea. I don't know. IIRC, Asari Commando's, STG and Blackwatch are all orgnaizations that are generally under supervision of their governments. I am sure the Alliance has some sort of intelligence service, capable of conducting covert operation if necessary (not sure if we ever heard of it bu I am sure it's there).
If i am wrong and they are not accountable at all (or only to some private interests like TIMs), then all of these organizations would be equally bad. Even if they had good intentions (and Cerberus doesn't), they would be bad. For example, personally, I think people like Bill Gates, Elon Musk or even Jeff Bezos probably have generally decent intentions but I didn't want any of them to have their private secret army that is capable of conducting multiple combat operations all over the globe. Similatly, I can't condone a private army in the ME universe even if TIM weren't an evil bastard (and that's before he got himself indoctrinated).
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 10, 2021 20:14:05 GMT
Okay, here's one for y'all. I think Cerberus isn't a terrible idea. WAIT! Hold the fanaticism. I said IDEA, not their methods or experiments or the terrorism or all that crap. As Miranda puts it, there's the Asari Commandos, Salarian STG, Turian Blackwatch, "...Cerberus is humanity's answer to those organizations." Or as Paragon Shepard puts it: "Cerberus was supposed to be humanity's sword, not a dagger in our back!" I liked the side missions involving Cerberus defectors, but I would have liked to see a potential plot point akin to forging peace between geth and quarians. I.E. you'd have to REALLY nail it to happen, where enough of the organization is convinced to abandon the Illusive Man in some epic cutscene, where he has the realization that he's lost. PARAGON: "We were supposed to be the best. You saw what we did to stop the Collectors. The Reapers want to divide and conquer us, but they can't win as long as we stand united. Are you with me?" RENEGADE: "You're supposed to be the best? Look at what I've been able to accomplish, in spite of your efforts. You see how weak your 'Illusive Man' has become, do you really want to be stuck to that sinking ship?" I know that would be hard to write, what with indoctrination and all, but I think it's a cool idea. I don't know. IIRC, Asari Commando's, STG and Blackwatch are all orgnaizations that are generally under supervision of their governments. I am sure the Alliance has some sort of intelligence service, capable of conducting covert operation if necessary (not sure if we ever heard of it bu I am sure it's there).
If i am wrong and they are not accountable at all (or only to some private interests like TIMs), then all of these organizations would be equally bad. Even if they had good intentions (and Cerberus doesn't), they would be bad. For example, personally, I think people like Bill Gates, Elon Musk or even Jeff Bezos probably have generally decent intentions but I didn't want any of them to have their private secret army that is capable of conducting multiple combat operations all over the globe. Similatly, I can't condone a private army in the ME universe even if TIM weren't an evil bastard (and that's before he got himself indoctrinated).
I’m pretty sure the N7 program is humanity’s version of the Asari Commandos, Salarian STG, Turian Blackwatch.
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