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Post by Zemgus on May 26, 2021 23:44:10 GMT
Krogan are whitewashed for their actions during the rebellions, and routinely touted as victims of a bigoted galaxy, yet will pull a gun out and try to murder you the moment you disagree with their wishes. The Rachni (if freed in ME 1) do everything in their power to help prepare and fight the incoming invasion, even going so far as to agree to suicide for the benefit of other species, yet are reviled as 'creepy space bugs'; their end celebrated by making wise cracks and Aliens references. Out of the two species the Rachni have done more to atone for past wrongs and build trust with the wider galaxy than the Krogan ever do. Yet one is BioWare's favorite victim race and the other is not. Indeed, it was the krogan who first hunted the ranchni to extinction after they had retreated to their own homeworld(s). On the other hand the genophage was inflicted upon the krogan only after they had invaded several planets, refused to back down and destroyed multiple colonized worlds in their war against the turians. The genophage was the right call then just as it is in ME3.
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Post by Monica21 on May 28, 2021 3:01:24 GMT
Krogan are whitewashed for their actions during the rebellions, and routinely touted as victims of a bigoted galaxy, yet will pull a gun out and try to murder you the moment you disagree with their wishes. The Rachni (if freed in ME 1) do everything in their power to help prepare and fight the incoming invasion, even going so far as to agree to suicide for the benefit of other species, yet are reviled as 'creepy space bugs'; their end celebrated by making wise cracks and Aliens references. Out of the two species the Rachni have done more to atone for past wrongs and build trust with the wider galaxy than the Krogan ever do. Yet one is BioWare's favorite victim race and the other is not. Indeed, it was the krogan who first hunted the ranchni to extinction after they had retreated to their own homeworld(s). On the other hand the genophage was inflicted upon the krogan only after they had invaded several planets, refused to back down and destroyed multiple colonized worlds in their war against the turians. The genophage was the right call then just as it is in ME3. I wish I had deep thoughts like this when I decide to sabotage the genophage, but I really only do it because Priority: Tuchanka ends up being a choice between Mordin and Wrex (if Wrex is still alive) and I just like Mordin more.
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Post by azarhal on May 28, 2021 11:42:53 GMT
Indeed, it was the krogan who first hunted the ranchni to extinction after they had retreated to their own homeworld(s). On the other hand the genophage was inflicted upon the krogan only after they had invaded several planets, refused to back down and destroyed multiple colonized worlds in their war against the turians. The genophage was the right call then just as it is in ME3. I wish I had deep thoughts like this when I decide to sabotage the genophage, but I really only do it because Priority: Tuchanka ends up being a choice between Mordin and Wrex (if Wrex is still alive) and I just like Mordin more. That's something.
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Post by sgtreed24 on May 28, 2021 18:47:14 GMT
MEA is not the worst game in the series.
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Post by azarhal on May 29, 2021 14:34:14 GMT
I've been seeing this a lot lately.
Unpopular opinion: There never was any MEA Quarian DLC planned and Mass Effect Andromeda: Annihilation is not a replacement for it (which people would know if they had read it).
Also, MEA: Annihilation is a great companion piece to the Covid-19 era...
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 16:31:13 GMT
I've been seeing this a lot lately. Unpopular opinion: There never was any MEA Quarian DLC planned and Mass Effect Andromeda: Annihilation is not a replacement for it (which people would know if they had read it). Also, MEA: Annihilation is a great companion piece to the Covid-19 era... That still doesn't explain why a quarian follow-up (as a DLC or as part of a sequel game) was so heavily hinted at the end of ME:A. I can accept if one was never planned (better than some people here can accept the possibility of Shepard never returning and that a remake of ME3's endings isn't likely to happen)... but why then, was Bioware not more up front about it?
In addition, Bioware said outright... months after the hiatus began, that people would get "closure" for ME:A from books. So far, Annihilation is the only book that has been published and it ends with the Quarian arc and what's left of it's population still headed for Andromeda
Whatever Bioware does with Mass Effect in the future, I"m tired of them playing this little cat and mouse game with their fans.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 29, 2021 16:41:57 GMT
I've been seeing this a lot lately. Unpopular opinion: There never was any MEA Quarian DLC planned and Mass Effect Andromeda: Annihilation is not a replacement for it (which people would know if they had read it). Also, MEA: Annihilation is a great companion piece to the Covid-19 era... That still doesn't explain why a quarian follow-up (as a DLC or as part of a sequel game) was so heavily hinted at the end of ME:A. I can accept if one was never planned (better than some people here can accept the possibility of Shepard never returning and that a remake of ME3's endings isn't likely to happen)... but why then, was Bioware not more up front about it?
In addition, Bioware said outright... months after the hiatus began, that people would get "closure" for ME:A from books. So far, Annihilation is the only book that has been published and it ends with the Quarian arc and what's left of it's population still headed for Andromeda
Whatever Bioware does with Mass Effect in the future, I"m tired of them playing this little cat and mouse game with their fans.
Because it was going to be addressed in the sequel. Same reason why so many things in ME1 and ME2 were left hanging and heavily hinted despite never getting DLC for it in those games.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 17:03:16 GMT
That still doesn't explain why a quarian follow-up (as a DLC or as part of a sequel game) was so heavily hinted at the end of ME:A. I can accept if one was never planned (better than some people here can accept the possibility of Shepard never returning and that a remake of ME3's endings isn't likely to happen)... but why then, was Bioware not more up front about it?
In addition, Bioware said outright... months after the hiatus began, that people would get "closure" for ME:A from books. So far, Annihilation is the only book that has been published and it ends with the Quarian arc and what's left of it's population still headed for Andromeda
Whatever Bioware does with Mass Effect in the future, I"m tired of them playing this little cat and mouse game with their fans.
Because it was going to be addressed in the sequel. Same reason why so many things in ME1 and ME2 were left hanging and heavily hinted despite never getting DLC for it in those games. By the time Annihilation went to publication, they probably had a good idea where they were thinking of going with all of this... so why not alter that book's ending?
They've been vague... and they continue to be vague. That's not doing anyone any good. Leaving things hanging like they have a habit of doing didn't do ME1 or ME2 any favors either. It just causes a lack of story cohesion... and RPG's have enough working against them in that department anyways (as a function of allowing for player choices).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 29, 2021 17:06:40 GMT
Because it was going to be addressed in the sequel. Same reason why so many things in ME1 and ME2 were left hanging and heavily hinted despite never getting DLC for it in those games. By the time Annihilation went to publication, they probably had a good idea where they were thinking of going with all of this... so why not alter that book's ending?
They've been vague... and they continue to be vague. That's not doing anyone any good.
Because they might still do a sequel, or planned to at that point. I agree that they need to be more open with what there plan is for the future, but with how far the next game is honestly I doubt they themselves know.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 17:13:27 GMT
By the time Annihilation went to publication, they probably had a good idea where they were thinking of going with all of this... so why not alter that book's ending?
They've been vague... and they continue to be vague. That's not doing anyone any good.
Because they might still do a sequel, or planned to at that point. I agree that they need to be more open with what there plan is for the future, but with how far the next game is honestly I doubt they themselves know. Still, it's safer to not have the open-ended hints... They aren't needed to produce a direct sequel. Hints to capture interest can be placed at the beginning of the next game... and worked into trailers and sneak peaks, which are produced closer to the time of release of the sequel... not years before.
Good novels tie up all their loose ends. Good mysteries might have misleading paths, but those are also explained by the end of the book and usually the reader knows why they were originally mislead.
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Post by themikefest on May 29, 2021 17:44:34 GMT
The guy did say one more story. That is a hint Shepard would have been back for another game. If what the guy says is only for dlc, then why does he say that when all dlc have been completed?
As far as the book thing. I have no interest in that. How many people bought the books/comics vs the people who bought the game(s)?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 18:30:08 GMT
The guy did say one more story. That is a hint Shepard would have been back for another game. If what the guy says is only for dlc, then why does he say that when all dlc have been completed? As far as the book thing. I have no interest in that. How many people bought the books/comics vs the people who bought the game(s)? ... and after 9 years, they still haven't given you that "one more story." So, did the hint do any favors for ME3? No. Who's being more unreasonable here... people hoping for a ME:A2 after 4 years or people hoping for a Shepard sequel after 9 years?... and has Bioware done themselves any favors with either group by stringing them along like that?
What I'm suggesting hear is regardless of where they go with ME Next, they stop inserting hints for a sequel or DLC at the end of that game's story. They wrap up their loose ends and instead work on putting in better and more interesting hooks at the beginning of their games (i.e. stop relying on now cliche bringing the PC back to life tropes like they did with ME2). ME1's ending would have been stronger if they left that game off at the point of Shepard reappearing out of Sovereign's rubble. The decision of who to put on the Council was something that basically had to be redone in ME2 and was of marginal improtance anyways and so what if we were told or not that Shepard was going out to find a way to stop more Reapers. ME2's ending was not improved by showing us a diagram of a Reaper at the end... nor did the possible showing of Harbinger in the DLC (only if the DLC was done after the SM) improved things either. ME2's story climax occurred when the player first finds out who survived... and waiting for that "No One Left Behind" achievement to pop.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 31, 2021 9:07:30 GMT
Citadel DLC makes me feel grief, not joy or happiness. It's a reminder that the plot vanished and all that's left is the shell of endearing characters that I do love, but now they're isolated into something that has no relevance to the actual universe or its realism... the stuff that inspired me to like Mass Effect.
It was too little, too late, but it is good. I just don't think it's this perfect resolution or even a perfect fix. And replaying ME3 now near the end, man, there's so much stuff where even as a remaster, I would've said "fix it" (like the husk-console refugee thing on Sanctuary).
Now you have this high-polished graphical update for the latest consoles and an all-new audience for Mass Effect and they still have to go through the obvious feeling that ME3 was rushed to the finish line the closer they get to it, and confusedly play FRIENDS-DLC in the middle of the serious narrative, not realizing that it was made a whole year after the ending debacle to give a bit of an uplifting mood and a swan-song to the cast -- the only good thing that remained in the IP.
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Post by janalilith on May 31, 2021 14:14:36 GMT
I get the sense I'm one of very few and mind you, I played AFTER they fixed the ending to ME3, but I don't feel that ME3 is rushed, or that the ending it rushed. I played it where my male Shep romanced Kaiden and with Kaiden along for that last mission, it just made it all the more meaningful. And that scene with Anderson towards the end had me in tears. I guess I do like sad endings if I feel they leave me thinking about a series for a long time after, as this did. I loved my Shep so much and it just felt all the more powerful to see how broken he appeared at the end, and the choice he makes he doesn't make lightly. It's just such a good ending for me because it's so full of emotion, especially when you consider that they are fighting a race that seems devoid of emotion, that they are so above what makes humans, human, that they cannot feel how cold and cruel the choices they offer are.
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Post by Guardian on May 31, 2021 14:44:25 GMT
MEA is not the worst game in the series.
It's not...that would be ME 1
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Post by Monica21 on Jun 1, 2021 18:05:32 GMT
I don't know how unpopular this is here, but trying to talk Wrex down on Virmire is irresponsible. While not technically a member of the crew he's still under Shepard's command. He's blasting his shotgun into the water and then points it at Shepard's face. If there were an option to send him back to the Normandy and drop kick him off at the next port I would, but Shepard doesn't have that option. She's just got a mad Krogan on her squad and there's no in-game reason to trust that he won't turn on Shepard once inside Saren's facility. Since the only options are Kill or Don't Kill, the cleanest thing to do is Kill.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 1, 2021 18:53:43 GMT
I don't know how unpopular this is here, but trying to talk Wrex down on Virmire is irresponsible. While not technically a member of the crew he's still under Shepard's command. He's blasting his shotgun into the water and then points it at Shepard's face. If there were an option to send him back to the Normandy and drop kick him off at the next port I would, but Shepard doesn't have that option. She's just got a mad Krogan on her squad and there's no in-game reason to trust that he won't turn on Shepard once inside Saren's facility. Since the only options are Kill or Don't Kill, the cleanest thing to do is Kill. But you can send him back to the ship. Just don't take him on your squad and that means during that mission he's stuck on the Normandy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 19:40:57 GMT
I don't know how unpopular this is here, but trying to talk Wrex down on Virmire is irresponsible. While not technically a member of the crew he's still under Shepard's command. He's blasting his shotgun into the water and then points it at Shepard's face. If there were an option to send him back to the Normandy and drop kick him off at the next port I would, but Shepard doesn't have that option. She's just got a mad Krogan on her squad and there's no in-game reason to trust that he won't turn on Shepard once inside Saren's facility. Since the only options are Kill or Don't Kill, the cleanest thing to do is Kill. But you can send him back to the ship. Just don't take him on your squad and that means during that mission he's stuck on the Normandy. You can also opt to not recruit Wrex at the start of the game; that is, you only have to recruit Garrus OR Wrex. You don't have to take both.
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Post by Monica21 on Jun 1, 2021 20:17:17 GMT
But you can send him back to the ship. Just don't take him on your squad and that means during that mission he's stuck on the Normandy. Fair, but then I've still got a mad Krogan on my ship who I let push a shotgun in my face. If you talk to him after Virmire I think he comes around, but you don't have any way of knowing that at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 20:38:42 GMT
But you can send him back to the ship. Just don't take him on your squad and that means during that mission he's stuck on the Normandy. Fair, but then I've still got a mad Krogan on my ship who I let push a shotgun in my face. If you talk to him after Virmire I think he comes around, but you don't have any way of knowing that at the time. If you don't shoot him, he comes around during that conversation on Virmire... puts away the shotgun and tells you that, although he doesn't like it, he trusts you enough to follow your lead. If you take him through the breeding facilities, he follows your orders throughout basically without question. Afterwards, Shepard can basically tell him that he/she appreciates what he did on Virmire by backing down.
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Post by Monica21 on Jun 1, 2021 21:23:44 GMT
If you don't shoot him, he comes around during that conversation on Virmire... puts away the shotgun and tells you that, although he doesn't like it, he trusts you enough to follow your lead. If you take him through the breeding facilities, he follows your orders throughout basically without question. Afterwards, Shepard can basically tell him that he/she appreciates what he did on Virmire by backing down. I know all of this. My unpopular opinion remains that it's irresponsible to talk Wrex down on Virmire. Shep doesn't have the luxury of metagaming and needs to know that she's got control of her crew. Allowing a crew member to stick a gun in her face with zero repercussions is irresponsible. That's why I posted this in Unpopular Opinions.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 1, 2021 21:26:07 GMT
If you don't shoot him, he comes around during that conversation on Virmire... puts away the shotgun and tells you that, although he doesn't like it, he trusts you enough to follow your lead. If you take him through the breeding facilities, he follows your orders throughout basically without question. Afterwards, Shepard can basically tell him that he/she appreciates what he did on Virmire by backing down. I know all of this. My unpopular opinion remains that it's irresponsible to talk Wrex down on Virmire. Shep doesn't have the luxury of metagaming and needs to know that she's got control of her crew. Allowing a crew member to stick a gun in her face with zero repercussions is irresponsible. That's why I posted this in Unpopular Opinions. Meanwhile murdering a soldier under your command because they are upset is the responsible choice?
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Post by Monica21 on Jun 1, 2021 21:38:06 GMT
Meanwhile murdering a soldier under your command because they are upset is the responsible choice? You do realize that in the scenario, as written, Wrex pulled a shotgun out and pointed it at Shepard's face? Under what circumstances is this anything other than self-defense?
edited to add: Wrex is not a soldier. He's just a merc you pulled from the Citadel because he might be useful. Well, on Virmire he outlives his usefulness.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 1, 2021 21:46:46 GMT
I know all of this. My unpopular opinion remains that it's irresponsible to talk Wrex down on Virmire. Shep doesn't have the luxury of metagaming and needs to know that she's got control of her crew. Allowing a crew member to stick a gun in her face with zero repercussions is irresponsible. That's why I posted this in Unpopular Opinions. Meanwhile murdering a soldier under your command because they are upset is the responsible choice? There is 3 different ways Wrex can die in that scene: - Shepard shoot Wrex - Shepard signal Ash to shoot Wrex - Ash kill Wrex for pulling a gun on the Commander when Shepard was still trying to talk him down. The last one allow Shepard to be real angry at Ashley.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 22:10:13 GMT
If you don't shoot him, he comes around during that conversation on Virmire... puts away the shotgun and tells you that, although he doesn't like it, he trusts you enough to follow your lead. If you take him through the breeding facilities, he follows your orders throughout basically without question. Afterwards, Shepard can basically tell him that he/she appreciates what he did on Virmire by backing down. I know all of this. My unpopular opinion remains that it's irresponsible to talk Wrex down on Virmire. Shep doesn't have the luxury of metagaming and needs to know that she's got control of her crew. Allowing a crew member to stick a gun in her face with zero repercussions is irresponsible. That's why I posted this in Unpopular Opinions. Shepard though can also cover the uncertainly of Wrex listening to reasoning simply by telling Ashley to " Be ready" on Virmire. There's no metagaming involved. Shepard should also know whether or not he/she has gained Wrex's trust by actually listening to his change in tone after having done his "loyalty" mission (particularly if he/she takes Wrex on that mission). "I might just be starting to like you, Shepard." and if he/she investigate the "Family" option again after having done that mission. It's not metagamining... the clues are there. So, yeah, I understand why your opinion is unpopular. I"m not saying you need to change it though... just explaining why I disagree with it.
BTW, Wrex also begins the conversation with "Hear me out, Shepard." Generally, when someone requests to be heard, I don't arbitrarily shut them down by shooting them. or maybe the exact line is "This isn't right, Shepard"... no matter, I'd still hear out their case before I'd shoot them.
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